Tell me why I should still care.

[FlyingSquirrel]

The media has been consolidated to a few wealthy conglomerates. I see only legislation aimed at FURTHER consolidating the media and at reining in the internet. I see, in fact, this 'reining-in' already occurring as internet providers seek to reserve more bandwidth for those who pay more.

Due to this media consolidation and free internet-quashing, I see a future where there are no longer any options for the powerless to air their grievances. Thanks to the Bush Administration, I see "Free Speech Zones" and a continued assault on the Bill of Rights.

I see neither of the two remaining candidates on the Democratic side being responsive to anyone but the elite in this country and PRETENDING to care about the rest. I see no reason to believe that they will give up the illegal powers that have been seized for the Presidency by Bush. I see NO MOVEMENT towards impeachment. A lot of pretty words. Nothing else. Tell me differently all you want, but if you aren't hearing something in the MAINSTREAM MEDIA about it, can you honestly say it will happen? Talk radio is not MSM, just so you know. The Boob Tube is. No, the American public is still somehow complacent in the face of their declining freedoms and their slow but steady slide from middle-class to poverty. They're being boiled like frogs but they remain in the pot.

I even see a bunch of misguided DU'ers who believe otherwise. Sure, I agree that things will be better under a Democratic president. But I see two choices before us - the frying pan or the fire. Neither looks appealing, so why should I care? Yes, I choose the frying pan. Should I be excited about my decision (which really isn't much of a decision at all?)

I'm so depressed now that Edwards has left the race, I can't even begin to think what's left for this country. I look around and see only people who can't see past their noses and care only for themselves. I think about Canada. Nice place. I live in Washington... wouldn't mind living there. But I have a wife and kids. The kids would be uprooted. My wife doesn't want to move away from her family. Guess we're stuck here and we'll just have to boil with the rest of the frogs.

[LaurenG]

1. I am not going to be able to help but I feel your pain. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. I feel your pain. *hugs*

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I fully understand

I will vote, but I don't expect anything to substantially change... not until the Empire finally dies.... ah Cicero wrote about the fall of the Roman Republic, today he'd be musing over the fall of the American Republic... same thing, different century

[Yael]

4. Neither Hillary Pelosi nor Barack Reid will deliver that.

Didn't we learn from the 2006 "mandate" that we gave the party? Good thing we are out of Iraq now.

Oh wait....



Sorry -- it is what it is for me. :hi:

[Demeter]

5. Nevertheless, We Must Do Something

I'm too young to die, and so are you.

It took 60 years to bring the Soviet Empire to its knees through its own excesses and miscalculations. The people of that Empire suffered unbearably, and still do today. They didn't have much going for them, and the powers that be squandered most of it. Today they have fresh resources, particularly energy. The Mafia in Russia will probably squander that, too. They don't know any better, having never known any better ways.

Bush crashed the US empire in 6 years. It will take a while to rebuild the nation, but we have so much more infrastructure, not just physical, but mental, informational, and political. If we get cracking, we may only lose two generations.

[pretzel4gore]

11. it's too bad you mention the USSR

i know what you mean, and share your sentiments, but will not let the busheviki lies about the USSR go by! Goddamitt too many good people have paid dearly for humanity's simple desire to be allowed to live in dignity. But dignity cuts into profit (health, education, transport, clothing, food, leisure all cost SOMETHING, so the pig has always fought the people for control of the wealth, and to deny wealth to people) Money is power and power corrupts etc. THe USSR was formed in the wake of the fallen Russian empire during WW1, when Russia lost millions of men trying to help France and Britain in its economic squabble with Germany...it was the Germans who shipped Lenin to Russian border in a sealed boxcar (Churchill called it 'like a plague bacillus') Lenin was an extremist; the 'Revolution' had occurred in February and the DUMA, Russia's parliament, was desperately trying to end her involvement in the war, get the food trains moving, and keep the vast country running. The deal Lenin signed after the Bolsheviks seized control in October gave the Germans everything they wanted, and Russia was out of the war, finally, with several million boys dead...Lenin's man Sverlovsk had the royal family murdered in July 1917 (which like 911 did to bush's secret allies, it 'burned the bridges' of the 'soft' revolutionaries, forcing them to, in Trotsky's words, press on to 'total victory or total ruin')..thus the democratic government of the 'Union of Workers Socialist Republics ie the USSR, was hijacked by Lenin and the bolsheviks, who begat Stalin. almost as if the devil had a hand in it! Stalin was many things, but if one remembers that Stalin's grandfather was once SOLD along with some cattle, perhaps one could see Uncle Joe being less then thoughtful dealing with the freepers of his day(?) Stalin also transformed a backward 3rd world nation intro one of histories mightiest forces despite the unmitigated horrors of the civil war, the famine... and the rise of fascism in Europe etc. The fact the USSR survived until 1990 is almost a miracle when you look at the sneaky two timing antics of the 'civilized' west- Hitler was SPONSORED in his rise to power by moneyed yahoos from all sorts of countries- and the fact is they have to lie like hell to hide the fact that vast swaths of human beings have DIED as a result of back stabbing creeps rescuing silly adolph hitler time after time, cuz he was as depraved as they were, only moreso. Yet Joe Stalin gets accused of murdering millions! But having seen history unfold since 1980, when regan was crowned 'the furor' of our bloody empire, and all that's gone on with the lying liars openly contemptuous of facts and truth on MSM, then maybe the demonization of GenSec Stalin was part of the same bullshit, the same pattern of lies aimed not at the Russians, but at us, to get us to hate ourselves

[Demeter]

15. There Are NO Good Guys in WWI

My grandfather was 2 years old when his mom took him and his brother back to Poland, just in time for war. They suffered all across the Asian continent, and did return home under a decree by Wilson after the war and the Revolution.

The Russian urge to do good by its people was thwarted inside and outside, because the do-gooders couldn't tolerate freedom in any form. And all that modernization, what have they got to show for it?

[liberalsoldier5]

94. So pro-Stalinism is a Democratic thing now?

Damn. I guess both sides have their extremist elements. Let's just hope the freepers don't see/use that one.

[tavalon]

105. Um, I hate to be the killjoy here, but, a little reality check here

With the exception of two Presidents, we have been on an Empire crashing course for 47 years and one of those Presidents was murdered by the powers that be, and the other one was neutered by the same powers that be. This Empire has been hellbent on destroying itself for longer than 6 years, it's just blatant now. I guess that's what happens as an Empire comes closer to exploding or more accurately, imploding.

[NC_Nurse]

6. Life goes on...

I was an Edwards supporter too. I am sorry he never got the attention he deserved.

I felt really awful last election when the chimp won again. I thought about leaving or giving up.
I didn't. I'm still here, hoping and fighting for what I believe is best.

The reality is that none of them can get everything done that they promise. Let's just hope we can start to turn things
around for our country. You can always leave later. :-)

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. They WANT you to not care.

Because then they win through a simple test of endurance.

[FlyingSquirrel]

17. I know.

[kikiek]

8. Lets get a democrat into office then judge how they do. If it looks bad now

just imagine what it will be like after a more couple terms of Repug rule. As McCain has said "there will be more wars". That will be a given with him in office. We can also forget health care, deficit reduction, women's right to choose, gay rights/constitutional rights, environmental protection, reduction of oil dependence, corporate accountability, social security, medicare, world respect, jobs, and the list could go on and on. If you're wondering who is predicting that we Democrats can't pull together and vote to improve our quality of life here's a clue http://www.newsweek.com/id/107568/page/1 Nothing will make him happier. We have to take the first steps to change or it isn't going to happen at all.

[FlyingSquirrel]

19. I agree with you, of course...

the thing is, that's another thing I'm depressed about. I've already seen the WORST PRESIDENT EVER win re-election. If that's possible, how could they possibly not manage to defeat whatever we put up against them? Even John Edwards? They know their business. They have the machine ready to go and it's going to be another bloody (and I'm not English) apocalypse.

[kikiek]

79. It isn't too hard to do with Democrats fighting amongst themselves. Many here

repeat verbatim what the machine has been saying about Hillary verbatim. Some are disrupters, but most are not. Our elections have been sporting events where it doesn't matter what is true. Only that your team wins. That makes me sick. We are in trouble.

[Dave From Canada]

9. Why don't you just try and have some fun? Family, friends, etc. Just try and enjoy life, even if

it's just the little things. And don't try and give other people so much control over your happiness. Believe it or not, but things could be worse. I know it's hard to imagine. But you could actually face real hardship, and be living in a place like Darfur or something.

[FlyingSquirrel]

20. Good advice I suppose.

They could be worse. My fear is that they will become MUCH worse.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm

[Two Americas]

45. don't you dare

Don't you dare take that advice FlyingSquirrel.

This is not merely a matter of you personally feeling bad, is it? I think this personalization and trivialization of people with a social conscience and accurate perceptions, such as yourself, is just killing us.

Anger, sadness, and fear are sometimes the perfectly sane response to truly awful things. Getting riod of our reactions to the horrors does not make the horrors go away.

What people need to "fix" them is to be able to fight back, not to have their "symptoms" eliminated. If more people felt what you are feeling, we could do something to go after the cause of the problems rather than counseling each other as to how to adjust to it.

A big part of the solution is to stop obsessing over ourselves, over our own little emotional world, and to stop trying to adjust and conform, fit in with, find out little place in conditions that is evil and dangerous and insane.

There are people truly suffering - millions of them - and facing something a little more severe than feeling a little emotionally depressed over a temporary and minor political setback. Fight. The battle has barely even begun. Focus on the desperate needs of others.

[FlyingSquirrel]

53. Thanks for the boost.

It'd be so easy to give up the fight. I drive to work every day in my pickup with "IMPEACH" in huge letters on the back. I placed each dot lovingly, all 357 of them (three layers so the shellac wouldn't make the green paint show through). I feel like a lot of comfortable, well-off people at my work are probably snickering behind my back. On the other hand, some have come up to me and complimented me. But it's hard sometimes to drive around town and see NO impeachment stickers (or very few) and just feel like nobody cares.

[slowry]

10. "Every nation must be either with us, or against us." - Hillary Clinton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYGYiGjpUs

[ConcernedCanuk]

12. Did Hillary actually say that? - I know Junior Bush did

.
.
.

And I can't believe that a leader would make such declarations in a democracy.

Oh

I furgot - Democracy is just a word down there . . .

[Quantess]

71. good thing to ask that. (no text)

[stillcool]

13. I'm not to good...

at predicting the future. But I know for sure things change.

[warren pease]

14. Weird timing...

Marginalization and eventual elimination of all non-corporatist candidates is exactly what I was writing about today. Here's the first few paragraphs. It'll probably be up in Online Journal and/or OpEdNews next week sometime.

Election theft 2008: mass media pulls off the perfect crime

Three hundred million witnesses and nobody saw a thing


"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, former CIA Director, at his first staff meeting in 1981.


The great election theft of 2008 began months ago as mass media identified, branded, demonized, ridiculed and eventually weeded out the "unelectable" candidates one by one. It ended on January 30 when John Edwards, resurgent neo-populist and the last bane of status quo oligarchs still standing, dropped out of the Democratic presidential race.

Only six states had a chance to make their selections known before Edwards ended his campaign; residents in the other 44 have no progressive alternative on the ballot. With "super Tuesday" coming up, millions of voters will be asked to choose among candidates from the moderate right, the corporate right, the religiously insane right or the Curtis LeMay right.

So, through deft manipulation of voter attitudes by mass media, status quo corporatists and oligarchs can't really lose. This outcome may not meet the standard for election fraud, but the results speak for themselves. And none of this even required electronic vote switching, voter caging, voter roll purging, flyers giving out the wrong day and place to vote, stolen or destroyed ballots, proprietary source code, GOP hackers or simple understaffing in progressive precincts. At least not yet.

Nope. This variation on election theft just required that people turn their televisions to any of the conventional mass media outlets – CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS et al – find a political talk show or panel discussion or rant fest, and internalize the labels attached to some of this year's presidential candidates: "controversial," "unelectable," "unconventional," "goofy," "loser," "weird," "outside the American mainstream," "radical." The candidates not so labeled are, be definition, the serious contenders and therefore the only ones we need to watch.

...

We're now down to three corporatists and a Strangelovian loon. Corporate mass media was kind enough to choose these awful people for us on orders from their overlords at GE, Disney, News Corp, Viacom et al. Which was a real help because we didn't have to risk overheating our dulled, narcotized, under-exercised brains worrying about boring stuff like politicians -- unless Entertainment Tonight does a special on their wardrobes or what kind of cars they drive or their latest makeovers... you know, I mean something, like, you know, interesting and, like, I mean OH MY GAWD like WHERE'S MY IPOD!!.

Pretty sickening, eh?


wp

[Demeter]

16. Sounds Like a Winner of an Article

Where are you publishing, besides here?

[warren pease]

64. Thanks...

I usually publish articles first in Online Journal, then in OpEdNews a couple of days later. If the article's any good and touches a nerve, it tends to get picked up all over the place within a week. I sent this one in today so I'd expect it to show up at Online Journal anytime from Monday AM through Thursday.

Thanks again,

wp

[devilgrrl]

26. This deserves its own thread. K & R

:applause:

[pamela]

29. Excellent article.

I, too, hope you will post this in it's own thread. And yes, it is sickening.

[Lugnut]

66. K&R n/t

[MissDeeds]

87. Excellent analysis

And yes, it is pretty sickening. Thanks for sharing this.

[warren pease]

92. Just got an email from the editor at Online Journal...

who tells me the article will be up on her site tomorrow. So if you're still interested, go here and see what's what.

And thanks for all the kind words.


wp

[JanMichael]

18. I can't. nt.

[MiniMe]

21. Its all about the Supreme Court now

I doubt Ginsburg or Stephens can last another administration. If a republican replaces them, the country is screwed for a very long long time.

[FlyingSquirrel]

24. Watch how fast the Republicons do an about-face and filibuster

the nominee if it's a Democratic president appointing him/her. I'm sure they'll have a perfectly reasonable explanation why it's ok for them but wasn't ok for the Democrats to do.

Or a slime campaign. Doesn't matter.

But yes, it's better to have a Democratic president appointing to the court. Thing is, I just don't even believe in the Supreme Court. How could we possibly have the likes of Alito, Scalia and Thomas on the highest court in the land? How could John Roberts be appointed to the position of Chief Justice? Shouldn't someone who's already been on the Court get that spot?

[Hissyspit]

80. Bingo. Of course, it has been for a long time, but it's amazing how many people forget that. n/t

[dropkickpa]

90. Yes yes yes

a repug appointment has much further reaching effects than a single 4 year term, or even two. How long are we going to be stuck with Thomas, Roberts, and Alito? Average tenure is now something like 25 years!

[Greyhound]

91. Lets look at this for a moment...

Chief Justice of the United States
JOHN G. ROBERTS, JR.

Associate Justices
JOHN PAUL STEVENS
ANTONIN SCALIA
ANTHONY M. KENNEDY
DAVID H. SOUTER
CLARENCE THOMAS
RUTH BADER GINSBURG
STEPHEN G. BREYER
SAMUEL A. ALITO, JR.

By my count there are 7 of 9 that are supporters of fascism or lean that way;
Roberts
Scalia
Souter
Kennedy (leaner)
Thomas
Alito
Stevens (arguably a leaner)

That leaves Breyer and Ginsberg.

Breyer is almost 70 but will likely stay on the court through the next term, Ginsgerg OTOH, is almost 75 and has cancer.

In the next 4 years it is likely that Ginsberg, and Stevens will retire or die. Forgetting for the moment that neither Clinton nor Obama is liberal, the best that can be hoped for would be a 6 - 3 fascist majority. IOW, the Supreme Court is a repeat of the 1830s and will likely destroy what is left of American Liberty.

[Tresalisa]

22. I'm in total agreement with you.

Recommended.

[IdaBriggs]

23. You, me and the rest of the planet -- I don't like the "top two" candidates.

More of the same. Yada yada yada.

They'll collect the taxpayer paychecks, and let the criminals escape.

I won't work for either of them. I will hold my nose to vote for them, but won't argue with anyone else to get their vote. Neither are worthy leadership people -- they are lousy Senators, and will probably be one small step up from Junior.

Unfortunately, a lot of people think that makes them "good" -- which just goes to show how "bad" things are!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. As far as my pocket book is concerned, I expect them to be a lot better than Junior

but that has all to do with how bad things are...

In fact, if things really get bad (or as bad as they still could get), they will have to become really good (in the model of FDR, and at this point highly unlikely), or will face being among the mediocre leaders this country has had

Truth be told... I expect the pigs to steal the presidency once again... and for our side, to seat on its hands.

[mmonk]

27. Because caring is all we have left.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

28. Wait a minute. Didn't you say that you would leave DU once your post count was a thousand and

you had used every available smiley?

Now you're posting "all is lost" posts? :shrug:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2647958#2651203

[FlyingSquirrel]

34. I lied. Should I run for president?

;)

Anyway I haven't used all the smileys.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

83. That's cool. I'd have hated to see someone with your smarts and wits leave our little board.

:toast:

[cbayer]

30. I am sorry that your candidate is out of the race.

Although I was not a supporter of his, I think he brought an important message which cannot be ignored by the remaining candidates.

And Edwards supporters have to some of the most dedicated I have ever seen.

You are grieving and with good reason and these are the five stages of grief:
1. Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
2. Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
3. Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my children graduate."
4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."

I think you have reached stage 4, and I for one, am looking forward to your reaching stage 5.

edited because my typing is atrocious.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I'm voting for John on Tuesday. so is my hubby and so is my brother in law

we've talked about it... we will try to help him get delegates....

But if you think the Media had nothing to do with this... I have a bridge and willing to let it go for cheap

[FlyingSquirrel]

38. I think I must have missed the bargaining stage

(or went through it without recognizing it as such)

Hope you're right about stage 5. Although this time I'm not going to hold my breath hoping for a Democratic president. Too crushing a blow when it doesn't happen.

I was a bus driver in Seattle in 2004. You know how CREEPY it is to pick up a bus load of commuters (like 80 of them) and drive them to work in COMPLETE and TOTAL SILENCE? I think that was the most incredible thing I've ever seen. And it shows just how divided our country is.

[cbayer]

40. That's why we need to prioritize now

I know that there are people who are very disappointed about Edward's withdrawal, but I see a potential Nader factor here and it terrifies me to hear those people say that they won't vote at all or will place a vote that will not lead to the election of the democrat.
and the bargaining, I think, has been - c'mon John - we will still vote for you even if you are not on the ballot - and then you'll come back, right?

[FlyingSquirrel]

47. Nader hit his peak in 2000. He'll never again influence an election

I can see the bargaining there.. although I'm not one of those who believed he might come back. Just that voting for him could possibly make an impact with regard to a protest against the Mainstream Media. Unfortunately, who would report on such a protest? The Mainstream Media?

See the problem there?

[Two Americas]

39. false assumption there

I find it a little condescending and patronizing to assume that a person's concern about the fate of the country and millions of people is merely some sort of personal psychological challenge that needs analyzing and recommendations for treatment.

This also trivializes this vital discussion and makes it no different than saying "gee I am sorry your team lost the big game."

[cbayer]

42. But I am sorry that your team lost the big game

I do not mean to be either condescending or patronizing. I am also someone who shares your concern about the fate of the country. And I made no recommendations for treatment. I just want a democrat to win and fear that it may not happen if we do not pull together behind whatever candidate we select. Like i said, I am not an Edwards supporter, but if he had gotten the nomination, I would have gleefully worked for and voted for him.

[Two Americas]

49. ok

No problem, but I feel that it needed to be said.

Explain to me what you see when you say "pull together behind whatever candidate" - what does that mean exactly? - and how that is connected to a Democrat winning?

[cbayer]

50. Just responding to the tone of the thread

I repeatedly see Edward's supporters say they just won't vote or they will write in their candidate. This is going to be a very close race and we need every democrat, independent and, yes, republican we can get to vote. Or we may get 100 more years in Iraq. And wouldn't that be really, really sad.

[FlyingSquirrel]

56. What would be different

between Edwards supporters sitting out the primaries, or voting in approximately even numbers for Clinton or Obama?

Only difference would be if they sat out the GE. Don't think many have said they would do that. The ones that have are probably just angry like me and will reconsider when the time comes.

[cbayer]

57. Thank you

That's all I am hoping for. Peace.

[tavalon]

106. It may be that some are talking about the general election,

but I know many are talking about the Primaries, and that is where we can vote our heart. During the main election, I'm fairly sure all of us will hold our noses and vote for the one with the (D) after their name. And I suspect that the Dem will win and that we will be in Iraq for the next 100 years, nonetheless. I wonder what stage of grief we'll all be in then?

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

32. Being a political junkie,

Many of my friends and acquaintances have asked me who I was supporting. Edwards is my guy was always the answer. So, when he dropped out I had many condolences from them. Most of them aren't avid watchers of things political, but, many are interested these days.

After the last debates, I had many of them come to me and say that they miss Edwards. It's like now that he's out of the race they now realize how much they really liked him and his message. So sad.

[Skittles]

33. the media appointed HRC and Obama as the front-runners

it shocks me how many DUers fell for it

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

36. I know

Sigh

[Quantess]

44. I always liked Edwards.

Edwards seemed to be in the lead here at DU, a far greater percentage than at the primaries.

(Hi Skittles, Nirvana-disparager-you!) :P :hi:

[Skittles]

46. I did like Mr. Cobain unplugged

that was awesome :hi:

[Quantess]

55. I saw Nirvana live, at least 3 or 4 times

at small venues before they became a "trend". :thumbsup:
Peace.

[Skittles]

62. I saw Stevie Ray Vaughan that way

yup :D

[Quantess]

69. Wow. Stevie Ray Vaughn was so talented.

You're lucky. I would have like to have seen him.

[FlyingSquirrel]

48. Before Edwards was in the lead, Kucinich was.

Everyone who's been in the lead here at DU has gone bye bye. Even Biden was beating out Clinton. Makes you wonder whether Obama's headed down the same road as the rest of 'em.

[Quantess]

59. Well, now that Edwards is out,

Obama is my fave. I am not a paid operative, so nobody really notices when I quietly announce my preference on occasion.

[FlyingSquirrel]

63. Of course he is. And so it goes.... Hope you're not too attached to him

'cause I have a feeling his followers may soon be destined for the same heartbreak the rest of us have gone through.

They'll be even angrier if the reason for his demise is not some nebulous "MSM" that you can't seem to do anything about, but instead a few selected superdelegates that have more weight with the Democratic party than the actual voters.

[Quantess]

73. Nah. I disagree with you.

Blah-de-blah-heartbreak. Heartbreak, for me, means more Republicans, more ruinous destruction of our once-great-nation. I will and I would vote for either candidate.

[cbayer]

51. Was he in the lead or were his supporters just more vocal?

[FlyingSquirrel]

58. He was winning every poll. nt

[tavalon]

108. He had better coverage here,

as we are better, far better, than the MSM.

[tavalon]

107. Actually, the powers that be, anointed HRC from the beginning.

This surge by Obama is just to make the "race" more fun for the rabble. We must have our bread and circuses. In the end, no matter how super Tuesday turns out, the super delegates will pick HRC. I forgot for a bit after the Iowa caucus, but I remembered as I saw Edwards drop out with the assist of the fourth estate.

[Eric J in MN]

35. If you want to take a break from politics, then do it. NT

NT

[pamela]

37. I feel the same way.

I'm fighting the urge to simply withdraw from the whole process. I plan to vote for John Edwards in the primary and then, well, I don't know where to go from there.

I've always been an easy vote for the Democratic party. I had preferences in the primaries but, for the most part, didn't get really excited or involved until the general election and then I happily donated, campaigned and voted for the Dem candidate. It never occurred to me to do otherwise. This year, with Corporate Candidate A-vs-Corporate Candidate B, carefully selected for me by the Corporate Media, I feel like we've already lost something far greater than the election.

I read words like "magic" and "unity" and "history" and feel like I'm in PeeWee's Playhouse just waiting to learn today's secret word from the corporate shills. "Scream real loud?" Sorry but I've lost my voice. In fact, we all have, we just don't all realize it yet.

[tavalon]

109. I know what your saying.

[bpeale]

112. you rock Pam! your post speaks to me. these are my feelings too.

but this year, this election year, it's different for me. if the dems want my vote, they will have to EARN it. it's not a given this time. they have sold me down the river way too many times for me to blindly follow again. i, too, have lost my voice ... and i realize it ... and my vote is now not a given.

supreme court? you need to remember these dems voted FOR thomas, alito & roberts. they are no different than the republicans. six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[waiting for hope]

41. I hear you FS -

We are so fucked. Really fucked.

K&R!

[AmBlue]

43. Here's an idea: Let the bastards have it.

Let's just let the freaking Republicans HAVE this mess they made. It'll all come to blows sooner, rather than having a Hillary or an Obama in the seat for four or eight years only to prop up the facade-- a mere empty shell--- of what people obsessed with things like Britney and NASCAR and American Idol still believe is a free and democratic society. How about we just let the disaster happen so maybe America can wake up while there's still time left to do something about it.

Kinda like letting a drunk hit rock bottom so he'll get his ass into rehab sooner rather than later. Enabling drunks never helps, you know. Any more than a Hillary or an Obama enabling the circus in Washington will turn this Titanic around.

The longer they can keep the show going, the more we get to be meat for their meat grinder.

Edwards was our only hope.

[FlyingSquirrel]

60. I had the same thought in 2004....

but then decided that Kerry should win an overwhelming victory to show that we rejected what was happening. And ya see how that ended up. But I really felt that another 4 years of GWB >would< make us hit bottom. And yet we haven't. (If we had, there'd be people protesting in the streets in every part of America) So when do we hit bottom? And is that really what is necessary for this country?

Hope springs eternal... if we have a Democratic President AND a Democratic Congress, in the short term perhaps this can be turned around or at least dramatically improved. But in the long run, if the corporations are still running things (and they are) it won't matter who's in charge.

[AmBlue]

65. Now here you are trying to make ME care....

:)

Yeah, I hear you. I've got two little ones too. And I busted my butt for first Edwards and then Kerry/Edwards in 2004 as well. That was one rough, four month long hangover.

Thanks FS, but I really do see nothing changing with either Hillary or Obama. Sad to say, but I also really doubt either of them can win against the Rove/Swiftboat machine. Working for either one of them would be an entirely futile exercise on this highway to hell.

So I'll still work on election protection as long as I can, but I'm also going to learn to grow great vegetables in my own garden and store up for the long winter ahead.
:hi:

[FlyingSquirrel]

68. Good idea. Stock up on water too.

I really wonder whether the Democratic Party hasn't shot itself in the foot once again. Whether neither can win against the RW machine, as you said. I have a feeling a lot of us who were gung-ho for Kerry and then for Edwards may end up just sitting on the sidelines this time, (not as far as voting goes but as far as actively promoting the nominee) which could create a self-fulfilling prophecy. But my god, how much devastating disillusionment can a mortal human take?

[AmBlue]

88. No answer for that last question...

just a hug.
:hug:

[tavalon]

111. It's not their foot they're shooting,

it's us, the people.

[gateley]

84. That only hurts us. Look at what they've done these past years -- I honestly

don't think the country could take 8 more years of it.

How many more people would die?

This would accomplish nothing.

I understand your belief in Edwards -- I feel the same way about my candidate, but regardless of who the nom ends up being, I want THAT person in the WH, not McCain.

[AmBlue]

89. The two left standing are corporate whores.

Sorry, but it's true. And that is the biggest part of what's destroying us. Our government is bought and paid for by big money interests and our interests as the citizens of this country are in direct conflict.

How about The People hire John Edwards as OUR lobbyist? We can all chip in five bucks. It's all pay-to-play and we might want to think about getting into the game, folks.

[gateley]

100. The Reps are corporate whores, too.

I'd rather have Dem whores in office than the Republican ones.

That's really an interesting idea about JE being OUR lobbyist. Hmmmm...

[AmBlue]

104. You're right. They're all whores.

That's what's so depressing.

[tavalon]

110. Actually, We The People, are our only hope

I'm not holding too much of that hope, right now. I'm unsure that We The People, have the stomach for anything different. There are things to buy and gossip to spread and American Idols to idolize. I'm thinking the sheep have become too stupid.

[Two Americas]

52. building a political movement

Building a third movement - a true progressive-labor-democratic party - can start today, and it does not necessarily have anything to do with how we vote in November. That is a trap, so ignore it I say. It is a lie that we must either knuckle under to the Democratic party leadership OR start an independent movement. We are being given an impossible choice - so don't choose. Take both. Vote for the lesser of two evils, whatever, while we build a true people's party. If we don't have a viable candidate, we have a group that can pressure the Democrats. The Religious Right gained power by building a movement outside of the Republican party and then bringing pressure to bear on the Republican party. That succeeded for them, and it could for us.

Starting with loyalty to and faith in the Democratic party means they can take us for granted and we have no leverage or power. Every time we complain about being abused and ignored, it is thrown in our face that we are "helping the Republicans" - fear tactics are being used on us, in other words. We are being bullied and extorted, and nothing good can ever come from submitting to that.

[cbayer]

54. Actually, the Religious Right was seduced and used by the Republican Party

[FlyingSquirrel]

61. A little of both, I'd say.

I used her, she used me but neither one cared
We were gettin' our share

[cbayer]

67. No problem if that's the way it goes

But the religious right did not get their share. They did this because of the abortion and gay marriage issues, and they are now some pissed off.

[Two Americas]

74. ok

You pick out one sentence from a post that you can find some minor disagreement to exploit. This is absurd.

Of course, once the Religious Right bacame a power base, the Republicans wooed them.

[cbayer]

75. Really?

If you actually read the whole thread, you will see that i posted on multiple points. Why you would need to attack me for posting is a mystery to me. And it wasn't a minor disagreement. I was responding to an idea that I strongly disagree with.

[Two Americas]

76. okey dokey

Yes I know you posted quite a few one liners on this thread, and in my opinion they were nit-picking and provocative and disjointed. But that is your prerogative, and welcome to DU. I am not attacking you. There is nothing there to attack. You haven't said anything, you have just responded to others, mostly with one liner contradictions of what they said. That is better characterized as "attacking" than anything I have said.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

72. Oh hell, just enjoy what you got.

If there ain't much left, enjoy everyday.

Edit - You really know it is bad if I am being Mr. Optimism.

Edit - Not that I mean to depress you, actually I hope you got a laugh out of that. :)

[FlyingSquirrel]

95. Actually I did.

:)

[Raksha]

77. My sentifments exactly.

I can't remember when I've had so little hope for this country. It's obvious that the Democrats are OWNED by the corporatocracy just as much as the Republicans, and for the first time in my life I'm thinking about bailing out of the Democratic Party. Although I can't imagine what good that would do either.

[Perry Logan]

78. It's sure as hell a mess. But here are some hopeful signs...

Record turn-outs at Democratic primaries. Next President likely to be an African American or a woman.
Young voters today are the most Democratic generation in U.S. history.
Six years of Republican screw-ups have changed everything.
Democratics candidates are getting more money than Republican candidates (a sure sign of the Apocalypse).
Republicans were decimated at the state level in 2006 (which means less vote-rigging).
Republicans don't even like their own candidates.

Healthcare is on the table. There are countless investigations going on. The internet is safe for now. Our wounded vets are no longer lying around in their own urine. The Senate Ethics Committee is back in action. Many 9/11 Commission recommendations are being passed. A bill to increase financial aid for colleges has passed--the single largest increase in college aid since the GI bill. The President's signing statements are being investigated. Legislation to restore habeus corpus has been approved. The Senate Armed Services Committee has passed legislation "that would grant new rights to terror suspects held at Guantanamo Bay. The unions have a voice in the government now—as do gays, women, and minorities. The environment has a fighting chance. The House passed the Taxpayer Protection Act, to protect taxpayers against "identity theft, deceptive Web sites and loan sharks." It also makes it "easier for taxpayers to retrieve property lost as a result of a wrongful Internal Revenue Service levy and directs the IRS to notify lower-income people that they qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit." The House approved a bill spending $1.7 billion over five years for cleaner water. There's a new House committee devoted solely to addressing the issue of global warming. And so on.

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.

Less than six months into the 110th Congress, Senate Democrats have made significant strides in passing important, common-sense legislation that reflect the priorities of the American people. After nearly a decade of Republican control, Democrats have worked to restore fiscal responsibility in Washington and pass key legislation on Iraq policy, homeland security, troop readiness, veterans' health care, economic competitiveness, ethics reform, the minimum wage, health care, education, energy independence, stem cell research, and Gulf Coast revitalization. Democrats are committed to proving that elections do matter, and we will continue to pursue the international and domestic priorities that matter most to the American people. Together, we will take the country in a new direction.

Under Democratic leadership, the Senate has passed the following measures:

* A fiscally responsible budget: a budget that restores fiscal discipline and will lead to a surplus, while cutting middle-class taxes and funding foreign anddomestic priorities, including education, children's health care, veterans, and our troops;

* 9/11 Commission recommendations: a bill to make America more secure by giving our first responders the tools they need to keep us safe; making it more difficult for potential terrorists to travel into our country; advancing efforts to secure our rail, air, and mass transit systems; and improving intelligence and information sharing between state, local, and federal law enforcement agencies;

* Homeland security funding: legislation that provides $1.05 billion in funding necessary to address dangerous border and transit vulnerabilities left open by the Bush Administration since 9/11;

* Support for our troops: legislation funding the President's requests for Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom, including $1.2 billion in additional funding for a total of $3 billion to provide our troops in Iraq with mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicles;

* Health care for wounded soldiers and veterans: legislation that provides $3 billion in supplemental funds for military health care and $1.8 billion in supplemental funds to the Department of Veterans' Affairs to accommodate the increasing number of new veterans returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan;

* Benchmarks for Iraq: legislation that conditions U.S. economic support for the Iraqi government on its progress toward achieving key political benchmarks;

* National Guard readiness: legislation to provide an additional $1 billion to President Bush's request for National Guard equipment needs to remedy equipment shortfalls that are compromising the quality of force training and limiting the Guard's ability to quickly respond to natural and potential man-made disasters at home;

* Continuing Resolution: legislation providing funding for the nine remaining appropriations bills that were not completed by Republicans in the 109th Congress. In passing this legislation, Democrats stayed within budget limits, eliminated earmarks, and increased funding for national priorities, including veterans' medical care, Pell grants, elementary and secondary education, the National Institutes of Health, state and local law enforcement, and global AIDS prevention and treatment;
* Energy Bill: landmark legislation to increase our energy independence, strengthen the economy, reduce global warming emissions, and protect American consumers.

* American competitiveness: bipartisan legislation to increase the nation's investment in basic and innovative research; strengthen educational opportunities in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics from elementary through graduate school; and develop the infrastructure needed to enhance innovation and competitiveness in the United States;

* Ethics and lobbying reform: a bill to slow the "revolving door" for former Senators and staff, strengthen limits on gifts and travel, expand lobbying disclosure requirements, establish a study commission on ethics and lobbying, prohibit pensions for Members of Congress convicted of certain crimes, and implement reform procedures relating to earmarks and conference reports;

* Minimum wage: legislation to increase the federal minimum wage to $7.25/hour;

* Middle-class tax cuts: the 2008 Budget Resolution provides for permanent extensions of the Marriage Penalty tax relief, the $1,000 refundable Child Tax Credit; the 10 percent income tax bracket; the adoption tax credit; the dependent care tax credit; U.S. soldiers' combat pay for the earned income tax credit; and reform of the estate tax to protect small businesses and family farms;

* AMT patch: the 2008 Budget Resolution ensures that the number of taxpayers subject to the alternative minimum tax will not increase in 2007, giving Congress and the Administration time to come up with a permanent solution;

* Head Start: a bill to expand eligibility for the Head Start program;
* Stem cell research: legislation to expand the number of human embryonic stem cells eligible for federally-funded research;

* Children's health coverage: the 2008 Budget Resolution and the 2007 Emergency Supplemental provide needed funds for the Children's Health Insurance Program;

* FDA reauthorization: a bill to greatly improve the Food and Drug Administration's oversight of drug safety;

* Rebuilding the Gulf Coast: legislation providing a total of $6.4 billion for victims of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, including $1.3 billion to complete levee and drainage repairs, $50 million to reduce violent crime in Gulf Coast states, and $110 million to repair the seafood and fisheries industries, which is vital to the region's economic recovery;

* Army Corps reform: legislation to ensure that the Army Corps of Engineers does its job more effectively and soundly;

* Disaster assistance for small businesses: legislation providing recovery assistance for small businesses impacted by the 2005 hurricanes in an effort to revitalize the Gulf Coast economy;

* U.S. Attorney appointments: legislation ending the indefinite appointment of interim U.S. Attorneys and restoring the role of the Senate in the selection of U.S. Attorneys;

* Tax relief for small businesses: legislation providing a range of deficit-neutral tax incentives designed to help small businesses grow;

* Education and training: the 2008 Budget Resolution provides for the largest increase since 2002 in funding for elementary and secondary programs; and

* Energy and environment programs: legislation increasing funding for basic science research at the Department of Energy and for energy efficiency and renewable energy programs.
http://www.apostille.us/news/democratic_accomplishments_in_the_110th_congress_leading_america_in_a_new_direction.shtml

[FlyingSquirrel]

96. Perhaps it's true that the media is minimizing the Democratic successes

After all, they have really mainly focused on the war as our "failure". Not that that is a small failure. I would've thought that at least we could get CHIP passed though. Minimum wage should have been passed long ago, and it's wrong that the price for finally passing it was to allow the war to continue to be funded. But yes, it does look like things are getting slightly better in the short term. It's the long term I'm worried about. And there was record turnout in the 2004 primaries as well - this did not translate into a Democratic victory in November, for some reason.

[bluestdogest]

81. I assume you are still alive, so you should still care.

Furthermore, you are not "stuck here;" you are free to leave any time you choose.

[FlyingSquirrel]

97. Just as free as the frogs in the water that's being heated up. n/t

[Echo In Light]

82. Many, via "groupthink," often attempt to abolish "free speech zones" online

Without acknowledging intent, of course. The powers that be, as you point out, will merely apply a friendlier face to the same profits over people goals, and being conditioned toward superficiality, large sectors of our populace will buy into the notion of a slight change as a major change.

[FlyingSquirrel]

98. That statement is very profound. Took a couple of readings to

completely get it, but I hope others will read it more than once as well. The media is very good at making small things into big things, as their main purpose is to entertain.

[Toots]

85. Move to the country, eat a lot of peaches, blow up the TV

and play some John Prine mucic....

[LWolf]

86. I choose neither the frying pan nor the fire.

I can't force anyone else to forgo those two choices. Therefore, one of them will happen no matter what I do.

But I sure as hell won't consciously choose one of them, or deliberately jump into the damned frying pan.

The majority, in their wisdom, will have to accomplish the dumping of the entire nation into the skillet, or the fire, without my help.

[Hekate]

93. Gamble on change, because if you give up it's certain that nothing will change.

Cold comfort, but sometimes it's all we have.

Hekate

[timtom]

99. YOU'RE depressed?

How do you think I felt when I saw Dennis Kucinich being marginalized just as he was in 2004?

[FlyingSquirrel]

101. Probably the same as me after the failed December 15 drive. n/t

[timtom]

113. Oh, yeah--THAT!

At least I got my DK pocket constitution.

I wish I could have afforded the autographed one...(sigh)

[Deja Q]

102. Edw-who?

http://www.markswatson.com/globalinstab.html

Here is a partial list of just some of the American participants of the 3-6 June,2004 Bilderberg meeting

*

Boot, Max - Neoconservative, Council on foreign Relations, Features Editor, Wall Street Journal
*

Collins, Timothy C - MD and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings LLC, Yale School of Management, Trilateral Commission
*

Corzine, Jon S. - Senator (D, New Jersey), Chairman and CEO, Goldman Sachs
*

Donilon, Thomas L - Vice-President, Fannie Mae, Council on Foreign Relations
*

Edwards, John - Senator (D. North Carolina), Democratic Presidential Candidate
*

Feith, Douglas J. - Undersecretary for Policy, Department of Defense
*

Gates, Melinda F. - Co-Founder, Gates Foundation, wife of Bill Gates
*

Geithner, Timothy F. - President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
*

Graham, Donald E. - Chairman and CEO, Washington Post Company
*

Haas, Richard N. - President, Council on Foreign Relations, former Director of Policy and Planning staff, State Department
*

Holbrooke, Richard C - Vice Chairman, Perseus, former Director, Council on Foreign Relations, former Assistant Secretary of State
*

Hubbard, Allen B - President E&A Industries
*

Issacson, Walter - President and CEO, Aspen Institute
*

Janow, Merit L. - Professor, International Economic Law and International Affairs, Columbia University, member of apellate body, WTO
*

Jordan, Vernon E. Senior Managing Director, Lazard Freres & Co LLC
*

Kagan, Robert - Senior Associate, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
*

Kissinger Henry A. - Chairman, Kissinger Associates Inc.
*

Kovner, Bruce - Chairman Caxton Associates LLC, Chairman, American Enterprise Institute
*

Kravis, Henry R. - Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co., acquisitions financier
*

Kravis, Marie Josee - Senoir Fellow, Hudson Institute Inc.
*

Luti, William J. - Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs
*

Mathews, Jessica T. - President, Carnegie Endowment for International War Peace
*

McDonough, William J. - Cahirman and CEO, Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, former president, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
*

Mundie, Craig J. - Chief Technical Officer, Advanced Strategies and Policies, Microsoft Corporation
*

Reed, Ralph E. - President, Century Strategies
*

Schnabel, Rockwell A. - Ambassador to the EU
*

Weinberg, Peter - CEO, Goldman Sachs International
*

Yergin, Daniel - Chairman, Cambridge Energy Research Associates

[tavalon]

103. Nope, can't do it

I'm in my own season of doubt.

I remember how we celebrated the "victory" back in 2006 and how they squandered our mandate. I'm wondering what it will be like around here when we have a super majority in Congress and a Dem President and still, we are ignored. I wonder what the excuse will be then? Perhaps that we need a super, super majority or that we need to wait for some of the Supremes to kick off or ?