A word to the rich who think that taxes are too high.

[angrycarpenter]

LEAVE. Take your money and go. America will survive without you.

People who who think nothing of throwing money away on exclusive country clubs or luxury cars for every day of the week complain that taxes are killing them. well did paying taxes ever take food out of the mouths of your children? They do for the working poor. Go away if you want to tax the poor further, they cannot afford any more taxation then they already have.

Many rich are living here because our tax structure lets them keep more of their money than other countries. But even here they complain. What do you want, no taxes? Why do you not want to give back to the society that made you rich in the first place? Is the thought that some poor person may benefit from a social program so repugnant? If you would rather people starve, then leave we do not need you.


America is the best country in the world to be rich in. When you pay country club dues you do it with the knowledge that being there gives you access to business contacts to continue your decadent life. Taxes are the membership dues for America. They allow you to live like kings here in relative safety. If you like your peasants even more desperately poor go elsewhere.

So rather than ruin our country for the other 90% whom you despise. Go away. Take all of your precious money and go elsewhere. Even if it means depression we will be better off in the long run without your manipulation of our government just for the sake of having your cake and eating it too.

[panader0]

1. Most of the rich have their money overseas anyway.

"Tax the rich, feed the poor" --Alvin Lee, Ten Years After, 'I'd Love To Change The World'

[kentuck]

10. "Until there are no rich no more.."

I don't know that this was a "liberal" message?

[BearSquirrel2]

McMansioners ...

The McMansioners do not realize that they are just tools to an end. When the poor have run out of money, the rich will start sucking off the wannabees. The point of investment is to make money. This is why income must be balanced. When there is not more middle class, there is no point in investment.

[AX10]

2. Taxes are the membership fee for any modern society.

With that said, the wealthy are doing just fine. They can afford to send in a few more dollars to rebuild our infrastructure.

[samplegirl]

3. AMEN!

[Cant trust em]

4. I do agree that they should shut up, but we do need them

They do help fuel the economy with all of the expensive stuff they consume. Here's an article I read in Newsweek about how we need their investment. One interesting point it makes is how much of a hometown advantage American markets get for their investment. Most Americans only have a small fraction invested in foreign markets.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/96364

[Greyhound]

11. No, we really don't. Wall Street needs them and politicians think they need them,

but the country as a whole not only doesn't need them, but would be a far better place without them. They are a huge and constant drain on the rest of us.

[EOTE]

18. We don't need them, they need us.

What we need is a strong middle class, not the bulk of wealth concentrated in the top two percent of income earners.

[Cant trust em]

56. I do agree that we need a strong middle class

and that concentrating weath in the top two percent isn't good for us. But to say that they should move away and take their money with them will adversely affect our economy. We are in agreement that we want them to share their wealth and treat people more equitably, but I don't think that having them disappear and putting their money into another country is the way to solve the problem.

[L0oniX]

5. I say kick them and the out sourcing corporations out of America.

[Xenotime]

6. The ultra wealthy have no place in america...

I have seen these super rich individuals spend the equvilant of a year's worth of a working man's salary on meaningless shit. And their kids aren't learning anything either when they get a $1 million sweet sixteen back. WTF!?!?

[BearSquirrel2]

62. Sure they do ...

Sure they do ... they're called gated communities.

It's not like this is new to America. We have gone through this before. The Union movement put a stop to it. It brought real protections to people who do grunt work. There was nothing communist about it as you would still make more money by educating yourself as their kids did.

I am really concerned about our economy. I am also very concerned about labor as they appear ready to self implode. Companies can and are outsourcing their operations overseas. At the same time, the lucky union laborers who are still on the "inside" are commanding higher salaries than a lot of highly educated persons.

This isn't sustainable. When guys are busting there hump in school for 4 years to get and and see that they'll make as much money as a steel worker, it's not going to last. Nor will it endear them to other folks busting their hump for $8/hour and no benefits.

I realize this is a mixed message. But America is getting into a really bad place and the unions don't seem to be dedicating their resources to the right places to "spread the wealth". Rather, they seem to be circling the wagons, holding on to what they had at any cost and not putting enough "foot time" into political candidates who are going to stop NAFTA, etc...

[Angela Shelley]

7. Sorry to pop your bubble angrycarpenter

... but there are better countries in the world to be rich in.

Other countries which have found ways to provide health care for everyone,
other countries which have found ways to educate everyone,
other countries in which households and kids on the street do not have guns,
other countries in which people are citizens, and not religious sheep,
other countries in which politicians work on finding solutions,
other countries in which veterans are not homeless.

... just to name a few.

[angrycarpenter]

8. These countries have higher taxes and the selfish rich have left them

There are rich people there to be sure but the ones who want to have their own kingdom have went elsewhere and these counties are better off.

[EOTE]

17. That's exactly why they left those places.

The wealthy don't need health care for everyone, they can afford their own just fine.
The wealthy don't care about everyone getting educated, their kids will do just fine, fuck everyone else.
The wealthy don't care about kids on the streets with guns, their ivory towers keep them protected from the riff raff.
The wealthy are all about religious sheep, it's mostly them that ensure they can continue to fuck over the middle and lower class to gain more wealth.
The wealthy definitely don't want politicians to find solutions to our problems. The bulk of our problems stem from income disparity.
These are all reasons why the rich love living in America. I'm not disparaging them all, I know many wealthy people have strong morals and live to do good. But the bulk use America as a great place to live wealthily without having to pay their fair dues.

[Jed Dilligan]

100. Actually, the rich live much more sumptuous lives

in poor countries. They want to be richer in relation to the rest of us to hold us in thrall. The worse conditions are for us, the more exploitable we become.

[angrycarpenter]

120. they enjoy safety and stablity here.

they have their cake and eat it too

[Jed Dilligan]

128. There is the "torches and pitchforks" problem

It has a fairly long cycle, and rich folks can usually manage to decamp before it comes down to their necks on the block. If you look at a country like Brazil, you'll see that the rich haven't been under serious threat for a pretty long run. There are daily problems of crime, but the richest live behind high walls and have private police forces at their disposal. The main difference between here and there is that they can enlist literally armies of servants where a rich American family might have two or three. Everything is handed to them on a silver platter--except when the platter is gold.

Don't think for a minute that they don't want and desire the same conditions to exist in this country. They've been working at it for decades.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. Those cars and clubs give them the access they need to the "right"

people. You think that the world works on a system that is fair and open? Think again. Their little networks are such an important aspect of their life, that they don't even know they're cheating. Until someone points that out to them, they will always complain about high taxes. Without throwing the truth in their face they can stay on the offensive.

[angrycarpenter]

14. I basically said that in the post

I simply said that they should see America as that country club where they pay money for admittance to opportunities to gain wealth. I do not hate the rich because of their wealth. I hate them for what they do with it.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. I know a place for them ....... Dubai

Dubai, where they're building stupid man made islands for stupid rich people.



Wat does the island on the right, below, **really** look like? They call it Palm Island, but I think it ought to be Prick Island.



The one on the left ought to be called Asshole island ...... as in, it is the place where, if the Earth ever needs an enema, they can stick the nozzle.

[angrycarpenter]

16. I have seen them

and it is the most obscene waste of resources ever. Dubai can have them so long as they stay there.

[krispos42]

42. OMG those are real!!

25°13'16.89"N 55° 8'22.21"E!

[Stinky The Clown]

162. Yes, they're real

In fact, they're being discussed on 60 Minutes as I type this.

[Jed Dilligan]

101. Well, there's one good thing that will come with global warming

These child-slave-fucking assholes will be drowned.

[AnnieBW]

13. A great example of a country with no taxes

Haiti. You know, where 1% of the country has 90% of the wealth? There's no infrastructure, no roads, no social welfare, very little policing, and a lot of crime. Oh yeah, and the poor people are forced to eat DIRT because there's no food!

[water]

15. That's a horrible attitude.

If a group is being treated unfairly, it's disgusting to tell them to "just leave"!

I assume you'd use the same argument to women who want an abortion, or blacks who want the right to vote? That's AWFUL.

[angrycarpenter]

19. It's an awful situation

They are here to use our country for no other purpose then to get more money. They use their influence to control our government, destroy our environment, and turn our poorest citizens into a resourse to be used and then discarded. I am sure that there are rich who do not fit into this description, they can stay. People who have no respect for our way of life but have immense political power are tearing down our institutions for the sake of money and power. If we cannot get a handle on them we are lost.

[water]

20. I agree with that statement,. Anyone in any...

...powerful corporation, union, or other interest group who harms others' property or rights, and uses their influence to control government should be punished, along with the politicians who let it happen.

[EOTE]

23. Yet you feel that the rich are being treated unfairly?

Even if you work ridiculously hard to become rich, you aren't being treated unfairly due to progressive taxation. However, the bulk of the rich don't work ridiculouly hard to become rich. Most are rich because they know the right people, or their parents or close friends are rich too. Those people comprise a large amount of the wealthy and it needs to stop. Unfairly? Are you fucking kidding me?

[water]

31. As long as they aren't violating anyone's rights, then you don't have a right to...

... treat them unfairly, and to tell them the classic rightist line: if you don't like it, don't try to reform, just get the f* out.

[EOTE]

33. How do the rich get treated unfairly?

They make more than most of us will ever dream of and then complain about it? Take a rich person making 7 figurs. Does this person work 20 times as hard as I do? 50 times? 100? No, most of these assholes simply manipulate money and become rich that way. I work my ass off for the little money that I make. I don't want the rich trying to reform anything, they're already living the American dream. What's wrong with this country is NOT that the rich are not rich enough. If that's what they want. FUCK THEM. Let me repeat that once again, FUCK THEM. They can get the fuck out of this country if they're not happy. Of course, they won't do that because the rest of the world doesn't want them as a drain on their economies. That's only a rightist line if it's spoken to the decent people of this country trying to get it back on the right track. Not to those greedy bastards that have everything, yet still manage to want more. I will NEVER defend greedy bastards who already have so much, yet still want more.

[water]

36. Look at it this way:

It doesn't matter how hard you work, how much value you create for others.

For an extreme example, if I spend every day punching a concrete sidewalk as hard as I can, would I have a right to complain that I work significantly harder than the guy behind the register at McDonald's, and he should be forced to give me his money?

[EOTE]

40. That's the whole point. Many of the rich do NOT CREATE VALUE.

How much value does someone receiving a trust fund provide? How much value does the typical CEO making 7 figures provide? Almost nothing. Certainly not as much as their hard working employees. Yet they get to be in charge of meaningless decisions for the company, so they receive a certain percentage of their company's assets. That's the way they like it and that's the way they'll fight to keep it. It used to be that CEOs made something like 6 or 7 times the average salary of their workers. Now they make hundreds of times what their employees make. Are CEOs doing dozens of times more work then they were in the past? Or are employees just becoming much more lazy? Or perhaps it's just because current circumstances ALLOW them to make that obscene amount of money? It's got to be one of the three.

[water]

43. Trust fund owners don't create value, but someone else did.

Don't they have a right to decide who gets their money? Why should you be allowed to decide for them?

[EOTE]

46. Quit with the fucking strawmen fer christ's sake.

Am I saying that people shouldn't decide what to do with their estates when they die? Stop it already, those types of arguments make it seem like you have no idea how to debate properly. Our gripe is with the taxes that they pay and their attitude towards it.

[water]

48. It's not a strawman, it's just picking up points that you don't want me to notice.

I said that people get paid based on how much value they create for others. That is inarguable.

You brought up a different example of someone simply giving money to someone else (a trust fund). I assumed by bringing it up, you felt those were unfair as well, and I presented an argument. What's the problem? :)

[EOTE]

55. I was saying they didn't create value.

Rather than address that, you try and change the subject by lying and saying that I think that people shouldn't have the right to have trust funds or that the wealthy shouldn't have the right to do what they want with their inheritance. Get it? Didn't think so.

[water]

57. No, you don't get it. It was a different example, and I responded differently!

I was talking about someone paying someone else, and you were talking about someone giving someone else money.

People pay others for perceived value, and people have a right to decide who gets their money.

Do you disagree with either of my arguments? If so, how? :)

[EOTE]

59. Did I ever argue that people shouldn't have a right to decide who gets their money?

No, another stupid strawman brought up by you.

[water]

61. Oh, I misunderstood you then. I thought you were implying that trust funds should be highly taxed...

...as well. So only people that get paid should be taxed?

[EOTE]

63. Wealth should be taxed progressively.

Trust funds should be taxed.... progressively, get it? The bulk of the wealthy in this country don't deserve their wealth. That's issue number one. Also, those assholes who are wealthy and want to complain about paying too much taxes? They can go fuck themselves.... and leave. Anything about that you don't understand? Care to raise any more strawmen?

[water]

66. Who are you to decide who deserves wealth?

Stop being so arrogant and allow people to live their own lives! If you want to fund a program, then ask for voluntary donations. Don't force anyone else to pay. Thanks! :)

[EOTE]

67. Another fucking strawman.

This thread is about how the wealthy who don't happily pay their taxes because of how lucky and blessed they are can go fuck themselves. That's a very simple thing that you can't seem to wrap your head around. By the way, taxes are the law, so the government kind of forces people to pay them. Thick, thick, thick.

[water]

70. You said that they don't deserve to be rich, I disagreed.

What's your deal? Calm down! :)

[elizfeelinggreat]

127. WTF? I don't believe this argument

WHO is arrogant? How about you build your own roads and run your own utility lines because I don't want to subsidize your travel and connectivity? If you think you have an answer to that let me warn you, I have a LONG list of things my taxes contribute to that you use.

"Who are you to decide who deserves wealth?" And do you think you know better, water?

Better than what our country bases its identity on? Pushing birthright? Are you kidding?

[water]

129. You're correct, taxes pay for a lot.

However, it's not fair to say, "You use what taxes provide, you can't speak out against them" any more than you could say "You eat at the breadlines, you can't speak out against them" in North Korea. You use the system you live in.

Imagine a corporation forcing you to buy its product. Then realize how that's exactly what's going on right now.

[elizfeelinggreat]

154. true but

that's not what you said. You said:

"Trust fund owners don't create value, but someone else did.

Don't they have a right to decide who gets their money? Why should you be allowed to decide for them?"

They don't have the right to fight for no taxes on that money once it becomes someone else's income. They still need to pay taxes on that inheritance. THAT is what I mean by fair.

[EOTE]

58. Like fuck it's inarguable!

Any other absolute truths you'd like to throw out there? A CEO loses billions of dollars for his/her company. So, due to your logic, not only should the CEO not get paid, but he/she should OWE the company he/she worked for, BILLIONS of dollars. Yet that same CEO earns millions or billions of dollars. I'm guessing you think this scenario is made up, don't you? There's a whole lot you need to learn about a whole lot of things. Lot of learning you need to do.

[water]

60. No, I said "perceived value".

If the board of directors hired them, they felt they were better than the other candidates.

If they were wrong, that's that, but forcing them to lower pay would dilute the pool of potential CEOs, hurting the companies even more.

[EOTE]

65. First of all, you didn't say 'perceived' until post 57.

Other than that, do you have anything substantial to add? Saying that lowering CEO pay being lowered would hurt companies is as ludicrous as your other arguments. CEOs make the money they do because they decide their own salaries. Do you still not get this simple fact? It's not about value, or even 'perceived value' as your silly back peddling implies.

[water]

68. And your response was post 58. :)

Why do companies raise wages? Why does any company pay higher than the minimum wage?

To get better employees!

Someone who is skilled won't want to take on the extreme responsibility of being an executive without being paid more!

That being said, CEOs don't choose their own salary any more than any other employee does. Like I said before, the board of directors, elected by the owners, chooses their salary. :)

[EOTE]

72. Wow, for a democrat, you certainly fall for a lot of ignorant right wing talking points.

"That being said, CEOs don't choose their own salary any more than any other employee does. Like I said before, the board of directors, elected by the owners, chooses their salary. "

This really says all I need to know about you. Continue living life with your head in the sand, I really don't think there's much help for you. I just know that I'll be able to save myself a lot of sanity by leaving you and your ridiculously naive ideas alone. You've heard all you will from me. Some people simply can't be taught.

[water]

73. I'm libertarian, I don't fall for ignorant left OR right talking points.

Do you disagree with my above post? I know you do, how about explaining point by point how it's wrong?

Or, perhaps, you know that no employee chooses his/her own salary unless they are working for themselves? :)

[Iris]

91. Liberterians are somehow less ignorant than those of us who fall into the Demoratic or Republican

parties?

Stick around. You might be surprised that many people around here aren't all that impressed with libertarian "ideas."

[EOTE]

93. Libertarians hate the government...

Until they inevitably have a need for it. Nothing should ever come in the way of corporations and their never ending quest to do public good. I really think that water should check out the Ron Paul web site.

[bread_and_roses]

132. "inarguable" that people get paid based on the value they create? Since when does educating

children, building houses, caring for babies, paving roads, caring for the elderly, growing food, or picking up refuse create less "value" than moving money around? You accept the artificial status we accord to profiteering leaches (actually, that's a slur on leaches, since I'm sure they serve some actual purpose in the natural world), and then assign this totally artificial construct some mythical "real" value.

The real work of the world is done in jeans, in scrubs, in work boots and coveralls. You'd miss those workers a hell of a lot more than hedge fund managers if they disappeared from the face of the earth.

[EOTE]

135. Don't bother arguing with him.

I refuted that stupid argument more than an hour ago and he still hasn't tried to defend it. Apparently, if you attach the adjective 'inarguable' before something, that therefore makes it inarguable. So don't even bother posting some sort of rational response.

[water]

136. If I work on a factory assembly line, I'm not particularly valuable to anyone.

Yeah, it's insensitive and mean-spirited to say, but basic work like that can be done by anyone, and any one worker quitting can easily be replaced. I could not run a company like Apple, and neither could you.

As for teachers: I agree they are under paid. The government should just let the market work and get out of the education business.

EDIT FOR EOTE: REMOVING THE WORD "AT" FROM THE SUBJECT

[EOTE]

21. I really hope you're being sarcastic.

It's very difficult to tell by the tone of your post.

[water]

22. I'm not. It's a current trend on the left that I thought was exclusive to the right.

"If you don't like it, leave!"

When rightists have used this line in the past, leftists have correctly pointed out how unfair it is; that people who feel they are being treated unfairly have a right to try to reverse that treatment, not to be told to "get out".

Now members of the left, motivated by hatred, are starting to adopt rightist talking points. Disgusting.

[EOTE]

24. Those people the right are talking about are those working hard

to put this country back in the right direction. They're not the ones complaining that they're not getting more when they're already getting an obscene amount. More than 99% of the country who complain about it far less.

[angrycarpenter]

34. They have the power to leave and be just fine elsewhere

Many are not even Americans. Many are people who came here for the sole purpose of having a great place to spend money on crap. The rightest talking points were aimed at people who were trying to make life better for all. Not a greedy bunch of hyenas here to rip at the corpse of of our country until there is nothing left for a working man or woman.

[water]

37. I'd argue that businesses do more good than charities.

The left has come to the point where it's trying to silence reformers in this country, and it's disgusting.

[EOTE]

41. And those businesses would be able to do that same good.

Without their CEOs making ridiculous sums of money. What the hell is your point?

[water]

47. No, they wouldn't! Why do you think they get paid so much?

If they could find someone good enough to run a billion-dollar company just as well who would take less pay, they would! :)

[EOTE]

52. How many CEOs end up losing their companies money after their terms?

Companies make money because someone had a good idea, founded them, and the EMPLOYEES created value for it. CEOs make as much money as they do BECAUSE THEY DECIDE THEIR OWN SALARY. Many companies would actually be better off WITHOUT a CEO. But the CEO certainly wouldn't see it that way, so he stays on. It's really amazing you don't see this.

[water]

54. CEOs decide their own salary? Are you kidding?

The board of directors, elected by the owners, decide. In fact, if they truly felt that having a CEO would hurt the company, they wouldn't have one. :)

[angrycarpenter]

25. I am dead serious

These people are hurting our country a hell of a lot more than any benefits they provide. If they are not willing to work with ALL Americans to better our way of life then goodbye and good riddance.

[EOTE]

27. I don't know who you're responding to, but I agree with you.

I was asking the poster who was sticking up for the poor, defensely and down-trodden rich is he/she was serious.

[angrycarpenter]

30. sorry I thought it was in reply to the OP

Didn't realize until now.

[TahitiNut]

26. "being treated unfairly"?????????????

What kind of deluded, brain-damaged MANURE is that??? :wtf:

[EOTE]

28. Won't someone please think of the rich?!

If we don't stick up for them, who will?

[Iris]

29. I'm sure those same people have said it to countless people they employee

Shoe hurts when it's on the other foot.

[water]

35. What's the similarity?

Employment is a voluntary contract.

Taxes aren't; Taxes are used when individuals in government feel they have to use force to get the funds they need (who the hell would fund the Iraq War?).

[water]

45. Let's say my neighbor and I agreed that he'd lay a stone pathway for me in my yard at $12 an hour.

However, I didn't like the job he was doing, so I told him to do a better job, or I'd hire someone else. No one would argue with me!

Let's look at a different scenario. My neighbor decides for himself that he will work on my pathway, and will steal $12 from me for each hour he works.

If I say "stop it" to him, does he have a right to tell me "if you don't like it, just leave"?

[EOTE]

49. Wow, your arguments are so weak that you've turned to debating with yourself?

You make even less sense that way.

[water]

53. Nope, you just can't argue with it. :)

The first is an example of employment, the second is an example of a tax (forced to pay for something whether you want it or not).

[Iris]

89. whatever. I was responding your idea that it isn't "nice" to tell these people

to just leave. I was merely pointing out that those same people have probably used that same phrase against someone else weaker than they were with relish.

And as far as paying taxes to support the war in Iraq, is that meant to show me how progressive you are? While I'd rather my taxes not go to funding such a war, I generally have no problem with paying taxes and can accept that sometimes I may not agree with how that money is spent.

[treestar]

160. The rich are being treated unfairly?

:rofl:

[EOTE]

161. Excuse me?

I'll have you know that Paris Hilton had to settle for a cast-gold bull for her foyer accent while she so had her heart set on a cast-platinum bull to impress her friends. This shitty economy is effecting everyone, you now, not just the poor.

[moondust]

32. Election trivia.

Leading up to the 2000 election all the polls showed that taxes were a very low priority for voters. There weren't many complaints about Bill Clinton's taxes digging the country out of the red and helping to level the playing field for the less fortunate. It was responsible fiscal policy with some fairness thrown in.

Then came the Republicans pounding out their tired old meme about high taxes, tax-and-spend Democrats, etc. They essentially created an issue from a non-issue. I don't know how many people swallowed it.

I'm not sure it is rich people complaining about their taxes so much as it is Republican politicians drumming up phony issues because they never have anything substantial to run on.

[angrycarpenter]

38. Go to a conservative forum

They want the bush tax cuts and then some.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. God The Rich Hating Gets So Tiresome. It Really Is Quite Stupid. There's Not A Thing Wrong With

being rich and the bigotry displayed here towards them isn't something to be honored. The concept of this OP is all sorts of stupid. I mean "even if it means depression"? Do you not realize how absolutely stupid such comments make you look? Utter ridiculousness. Hate is hate, and hate is stupid.

[EOTE]

44. Who said it is wrong to be rich?

The OP is talking about the rich who complain about giving their fair share. If you're rich, that's fine, but you should be thankful and want to give back even more. Not complaining that you're not rich enough because of that evil government. The government does a lot of fucked up stuff, but taxing the rich is NOT one of them. It's one of the things the government needs to do a hell of a lot moref.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. It's Called Having The Ability To See Deeper Than The Surface.

The OP screams out hatred towards the rich and blatant bigotry towards them as a group. It oozes that concept. It gets tiresome.

And we all have a right to complain about our taxes, regardless of the bracket we're in.

[EOTE]

69. Just as I have the right to give a big 'fuck you' to those greedy bastards...

who have more than they deserve, more than anyone needs, yet still feel the need to complain about their unfair lot n life. That's just the way it works.

[water]

71. Why do you have the right to decide how much they deserve? Get out of others' lives! :)

[JosephSchmo]

74. Because he knows better than you

give him some respect

[EOTE]

76. I know you're being sarcastic, but you're absolutely right. nt

[JosephSchmo]

77. no sarcasm at all Big Brother

[EOTE]

83. You didn't wait very long to start making some very presumptive...

and ignorant posts.

[EOTE]

75. Who the fuck said that?

You're sure good at putting words in other people's mouths. I never said I have the right to decide how much others deserve, I KNOW how much people deserve by how much work or value they contribute. I have the right to say 'fuck you' do all those greedy, undeserving bastards. I'm not interfering with anyone. I've had enough of your worthless tripe.

[water]

111. You don't decide, you know? And how exactly does that conflict with what I wrote?

You are obsessed with controlling other people! This is frightening!

[EOTE]

112. Knowing something and having the right to do something about it are two completely different things.

But considering the other things that you don't know, I certainly wouldn't expect you to understand that.

[water]

117. I'm sorry, I thought I heard you advocating taking their money because they don't deserve it.

If you aren't in favor of that, just let us know. :)

[EOTE]

119. You're sorry because you imply false bullshit, IE LYING.

I'm not in favor of that, I want you to show me where I've said I advocate taking money from the rich because they don't deserve it. It's called taxation, and it's the law. Stop it with the smilies, they don't make you seem any less stupid.

[water]

140. You've been saying that the entire time.

You've said they should be taxed more because they don't deserve their money. When I asked rhetorically why you (and others like you, of course) think you should be able to decide how much money another human being deserves, you made a classic remark: that you don't decide, you know. You sound like Mr. Bush.

[EOTE]

142. And once again, did I ever say I should decide what they make?

I'm saying they're overpaid, not that I should decide their salary. That simple concept you haven't been able to get through your incredibly thick skull. I'm done with you.

[water]

144. Technically, you didn't. In effect, you did.

You don't want to decide how much they make, just how much they are allowed to keep. :)

[EOTE]

113. Wow, that edit button is your friend isn't it?

If you say something so completely stupid or indefensible, just edit it like you've done with 6 of your posts, of course not explaining any of your edits. Funny how I'm able to stand by what I say without edits, or atleast explaining the edits I do make.

[water]

116. You are lying. Simple as that. I added the sentence "You don't decide, you know?".

I have not made any substantial edits, I edit for clarity or for style. If moderators keep a record of edits, they could back me up.

For the post above you're talking about, I added the sentence "You don't decide, you know?" then moved "This is frightening!" down to the body of the post.

[EOTE]

118. 6 posts edited and not a single note on what those edits are.

Are you going to deny that you've edited 6 of your replies without any explanation? Now, you wouldn't care to reply to mine, would you? Of course not. You still don't understand the difference, probably never will. All you care about is distorting what others have said.

[water]

122. I just gave an explanation! I don't to any substantial edits...

...because it's extremely confusing for others trying to read my posts. You're just being argumentative now.

[EOTE]

125. Yet you still won't address my questions.

Pathetic. Here's a little hint for you, if you're going to edit 6 of your posts, hell, even one. Just provide a simple line as to what the edit is. Not terribly difficult or confusing. I take that back... some might find it confusing.

[water]

141. What question do you want me to answer??

You're trying to pick fights over tiny edits! You're a troll!

[EOTE]

145. I've been here for 7 years, you've been here for 2 weeks.

You call me a liar without backing up a thing while I cite several of your lies by referring to your own words. And I'm the troll. You should really consider the website you're posting at.

[water]

147. First of all, I did back it up. Second, you didn't cite any "lie"!

You simply aren't used to being confronted.

You say that the rich don't deserve their money and that the "excess" should be taken. I respond by asking why you think that you (and others like you) can decide what others "deserve" to make... which you call a "lie". Why? You never used the word "make".

Edit: There is no difference between deciding how much someone "makes" and how much they are allowed to "keep".

[EOTE]

156. How did I lie idiot? I'll need to ask you like a gradeschooler to use my 'words'.

Tell me one lie I've said this whole thread? I've been speaking about two different issues here. One is that most of the wealthy make far more than they are worth (this is my opinion, but an informed one unlike yours). I don't suggest that something should be done about this because if I did, CEOs would make about 1/1000th what they make now. The 2nd one is that our taxation should be much more progressive than it is now, that's a political issue. I've shown time and time again how you've misrepresented my words (IE LIED). But you've been completely unable to do so towards me. And now, you've just done it again by quoting me as saying 'excess' when you just using it now was the first time that word appeared in the thread. You're not just a liar, you're an idiot and not worth my time.

[EOTE]

121. Then you call me a liar with nothing to back it up.

Making you an even bigger liar. You're despicable.

[water]

123. How can I back up what the edit was??

[EOTE]

126. You called me a liar, then didn't back it up.

How did I lie? If you can't back up calling me a liar, don't call me a liar, idiot.

[water]

130. Well, I already explained it, but I'll explain it again...

"If you say something so completely stupid or indefensible, just edit it like you've done with 6 of your posts"

I already explained I edit for style and clarity. I don't substantially change what I wrote. Was there something I said that I edited out with which you wish to respond?

[EOTE]

131. Yes, so you say. We'll have to take your word for it...

because you've never explained your edits ON THE POSTS YOU'VE MADE THEM. So, even assuming you're telling the truth now (which is an awfully big assumptions). You still called me a liar and provided nothing to back it up. I've called you on many of your lies, you make it pretty damn easy.

[water]

134. If you don't believe my explainations now, why would you believe them then?

Again, what did I edit out to wish you wish to respond?

EDIT: CHANGING "ME" TO "MY" IN THE SUBJECT

[EOTE]

138. Hey idiot, I was simply mentioning that you made 6 edits without explaining them.

THEN I asked you to defend yourself for calling me a liar. But you can't, you lose idiot. I'm through with you and your idiotic arguments. Damn, are you incapable of getting through a single post without screwing something up?

[water]

139. No, you didn't "simply" say that. I already pointed out what you said.

And I'm a sloppy typist, sorry. :P

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. Where's Your Reference For Such A Statement?

"yet still feel the need to complain about their unfair lot n life"

Where exactly is this happening?

And it's not up to you to determine what someone else deserves. And you also totally exposed your bullshit earlier about not hating the rich or having bigotry towards them, when it is quite apparent that you do. Get a grip.

[EOTE]

81. Ummm, how about I know lots of them?

It's those that I have a problem with. Those who pay without complaint I don't have a problem with. I'm also have quite the chuckle at your screen name right now. Mind crime is right.

[water]

85. You are arrogant, you want to decide how much money other people should be allowed to have...

...how much someone should be allowed to pay someone else, how much money someone should be allowed to give someone else, and how others' money is spent.

You aren't a liberal, you are an authoritarian. You are a control freak. If you think that someone should give up some of their money, why not ask them? Don't use the police-power of government to force them to do your bidding. :)

[EOTE]

87. You're an idiot who puts words in others mouths and only has strawmen for argument.

Not only that, but I said I was through with you and you continue speaking. I'm through with you and your idiotic arguments. Good bye.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. So What You're Saying Is; You're Making It All Up.

Fair enough. See ya. :hi:

[EOTE]

90. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I don't have asshole relatives who complain far more than I do even though I have a small, small fraction of their means. Not only is your SN mighty ironic, but apparently you're a psychic too. Pathetic.

[angrycarpenter]

94. Thank-you for your support

Apparently Mindcrime thinks my rebuttals are too STUPID to reply to.

[EOTE]

95. Of course.

I find it amazing that so many progressives don't realize how screwed up our income structure is in this country.

[angrycarpenter]

99. I get this whenever I am critical of the rich

We are supposed to be progressives here. Who do they think we are trying to make progress against.

People who have money have no idea of the doors that are slammed in your face if you work a job and try to make a better life for yourself and how infuriating it is.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

98. Whine As Much As You Want. But You Still Haven't Backed Up Your Statement:

"yet still feel the need to complain about their unfair lot n life"

You didn't say merely complain about paying taxes. You said complain about their unfair lot in life. There's a hell of a big difference between those two sentiments. And even though they do still have the right to complain, doing so does not in any way constitute their complaining that life is unfair.

They're your words. You can either defend them with example or you can't. If you can't, then you did in fact simply make it all up.

But at least now I can see that the underlying source of your bitterness is jealously towards your relatives who have become more successful in life than you. I figured there had to be some catalyst.

[EOTE]

102. I don't need to trot out the words of those I know for you.

If you think they don't exists, that's not my problem. You prove to me that they don't exists. If that's what you believe, you're lost. I'm not bitter that they're more successful than I, just that they can't be happy with what they've got. I'm in much better shape than some of my friends and relatives, but I wouldn't dare complain about what little I've got to them. Get a clue.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

107. Prove To You They DON'T Exist? ROFLMAO!!! Hey, First Prove To Me That Polka Dotted Unicorns With

bright orange fairy wings don't exist pal. :rofl:

So based on your reply, I think we can now conclude that your statement was unsupportable and WAS in fact made up. Hopefully next time you'll stick to declaring things that are like, ya know, actually real and stuff. :hi:

[EOTE]

110. You're an idiot. I don't need to dig up quotes from relatives.

I wouldn't bother, especially for the likes of you. Is that what you want from me? Would you like an audio recording of the things they've said? Or perhaps you'd like a news article with the title "America's Rich More Ungrateful Than Ever". You're hopeless, I'm through with you.

[angrycarpenter]

103. I think it is much less jealousy than disgust.

You still haven't replied to me. You called me stupid and I am not going to take that lying down.

[EOTE]

105. You might be waiting a long time.

It's much easier to hurl insults without having to back anything up.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

109. So Sayeth The Master Of Such...

:rofl:

[angrycarpenter]

114. That is the problem I am discussing

The rich refuse to dignify criticism with a reply. Well continue to ignore me if you wish but I think that it proves my point. The rich have the ability to shut out the things that they do not want to hear. When they do respond it is with an insulting dismissive attitude. I do not think you belong here. Go to a board where they call the poor nasty names and promote hatred against those that are the victims of a capitalist society run amuck.

[water]

143. I've responded to everything, and I am very poor, thank you.

No one should be allowed to decide for someone else how much money they "deserve". It's that simple.

[angrycarpenter]

151. I wasn't talking to you

Mindcrime called me and my post "stupid" and then refused to reply when I explained myself. I am all for debating but I have never resorted to name calling. It has no place here.

[angrycarpenter]

146. still waiting to hear from you

You come to this thread, call me stupid, ridicule EOTE for agreeing with me, and fail to respond to my defense of said post.

I had very specific criticism of the 1% and you took it as an attack on the rich in general.

I have worked for a living every day of my life. My pay buys less and less while these monstrously wealthy people get everything they could dream of and then complain about people like me.


What say you mindcrime? Can you explain your defense of the rich without showing your bigotry and hatred of the poor?

[water]

150. What do you want answered?

[angrycarpenter]

152. Are you operationmindcrime?

That was the one I was talking to.

[water]

153. No, but if you want an explaination for something I'd be happy to give it.

[angrycarpenter]

158. Then explain why

He called me and my post "stupid" and then refused to answer my rebuttal. That is the only explanation I want.

[EOTE]

157. Water is from the same train of thought that OMC is...

IE the one that hasn't been in operation since the mid 90s. Most likely Amtrak.

[angrycarpenter]

92. I am still here

And I will get in anyones face who says that the rich have not EARNED every bit of contempt that I have for them.

[angrycarpenter]

88. It's not up to you to determine what someone else deserves

Of course not, that is for the rich to decide. The poor should just take what they are allowed to have and be grateful.

[angrycarpenter]

80. tiresome?

What is tiresome is not getting a payraise when the bosses get huge bonuses for finding new ways to get more work for less money.

You accuse me of bigotry, well that is open to interpretation. I used to work in Palm Beach, I have seen these people in action. I have seen the utter contempt that they have for working people firsthand. I have heard with my own ears the bigotry they have against people like me who work hard for the crumbs that fall from their tables. So excuse me if I am a little on the harsh side with the rich, I feel that they have earned every bit of it.

[Jed Dilligan]

104. Ooh, is that your "perfect logic" at work?

Being able to see into people's hearts through the internet? Wow, he's magical as well as scientific!

[EOTE]

106. Magical, scientific AND psychic.

OMC is the trifecta of perfectness.

[Jed Dilligan]

108. And always on hand at DU

to shower us with his golden wisdom!

[water]

51. They're saying that they feel your idea of a "fair share" is unfair.

[angrycarpenter]

64. stupid is as stupid does

I am simply saying that We will be better off without these super rich that care far more about their own personal wealth and power than about the damage they cause by squeezing every last penny out of working Americans, investing it in other counties, and doing every thing they can to avoid paying their fair share into the country that made them rich.

As to my hating them you may be right but it does not even come close to the contempt that they show when they send jobs overseas and then shelter their money in offshore accounts to avoid taxes. They are raping our economy and trying to be nice to these people is stupid. They count on us to follow the rules that they break everyday.

There is nothing wrong with being rich as you said but using said wealth to Punish the poor for being poor is the most hateful thing ever and sitting here playing nice while they stick our last dollar in their pocket is stupid.

[cottonseed]

78. Increase Marginal Tax Rate to 50s/60s Level

Increase the top marginal tax rate to the level it was in the 50s/60s. That is of course the period in America which we described the participants as our "Greatest Generation". That's when we built our infrastructure and the middle class was alive and kicking. Increase the top marginal tax rate, change our mindsets from "greed is good" back to a more modest view on wealth.

[EOTE]

84. But that would be far too much like right to work.

Commie! Just kidding :). Thanks for injecting some rationality into this thread.

[baldguy]

82. The rich are parasites.

Fleas certainly have a right to exist, but they shouldn't have the power to wag the dog's tail.

[krispos42]

96. The rich shouldn't leave

They should retire. If they stop earning money, they don't pay income taxes.


Sit back in your paid-for mansion, drive your paid-for cars, go fishing in your paid-for boat, and live off of your vast savings. Play golf. Sky-dive. Take care of the grandkids. Go back to college. Plant a garden. Take flying lessons. Host cocktail parties.

Problem solved.

[alfredo]

97. Remember, those who guard your gated community are from the class

you are trying to keep out.

[wildbilln864]

115. k&r! n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

124. No, they're planning on that anyway

They have every intention of leaving, once they have bled out every penny from the economy they can. Then they'll leave us in the gutter living off the scraps.

[JosephSchmo]

133. Do you realize that by the standards of the history of the world, YOU are rich.

So take your own advice.

[EOTE]

137. The OP is.

You don't see him/her complaining about paying taxes, do you? Sheesh, I would have thought you'd at least read the post first before criticizing it.

[angrycarpenter]

155. I live in a rundown trailer

I work 40plus hours a week and I have not had a real raise in 7 years. I am talking recent history. Like 7 years ago when the rich got a tax cut and I did not. I am talking a 14% rise in income by these people when I get a pay cut. I am talking them putting a poor people hating jerk in the whitehouse. No one seems to be on the side of working people. We have no voice in the government because of them. And even on a forum where we are supposed to be progressive I get the same crap that I would get if I had posted where conservatives gather to call me and others like me "stupid".

[gravity]

148. We should reframe this whole tax debate

Instead of invoking class warfare, we should talk about finding the socially optimal tax rate that works best for everyone.

No one likes paying taxes just like no one likes paying bills, but we have to pay them. Demonizing the rich for not wanting to pay more taxes is not going to improve anything. If you frame the debate as us vs them, you are just going to make things worst.

[angrycarpenter]

159. Us Vs. them is how they operate

We are the designated losers. What are they going to do, spank us for getting "uppity"?

[kineneb]

149. Nah. Eat 'em. Kinda' tough. Cook w/liquids. Add garlic if needed.

Fries optional.