The smoking ban is only the beginning

[Holly_Hobby]

Obese? You won't get served in Mississipi restaurants if this bill passes.

...

Now there is a bill that was recently introduced in Mississippi’s state legislature that would prohibit restaurants from serving people the government determined to be obese.

If passed, House Bill 282 would require restaurants to follow guidelines set by the state’s health department to determine a customer’s obesity, banning those considered too fat to serve.

...

http://blog.puppetgov.com/?p=1585

Ironically, I'll be back later to discuss, I'm leaving for the grocery store.

[Selatius]

1. I live in Mississippi. I dunno what the fuck went wrong, but there are other bigger issues.

No pun intended. I'm talking about things like Katrina reconstruction.

[wuushew]

2. Yawn....

Wake me when this is passed(I.E. never).

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

66. 20 years ago the idea of a smoking ban in private resturats was absurd.

Dont worry soon enough well start pimping big fat as the next big evil and in a few years some of these will be passing..

[imaginary girl]

73. Prove that eating near somebody overweight can be fatal ...

... and you might have a valid comparison.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

74. This will be sold under

'the common good'

It will be pointed out that morbid obesity raised the cost of health care for everyone! It will also be pointed out that some people are food addicts and 'need our help'...

[lvx35]

3. Blaming the victims again.

Here's a revolutionary idea: Get the restaurants to stop selling crap. I mean seriously, I went vegetarian a few months ago and I've lost mad weight...Not so much from lack of meat, but because there's nothing good for vegetarians at fast food joints so I don't eat there anymore. Feed these obese guys the right food and they can eat till their heart is content and still drop pounds.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Not really

Brookhaven (specializes on the morbidly obese) had one patient who ate three kilos of oranges a day... he was oh five or six hundred pounds

You can still overeat healthy food

[lvx35]

21. Oh I'm sure you can. But is that the majority?

I mean we have people with glandular disorders, and we have people with mental disorders (who chronically overeat) but are they the majority? For me its just like that movie "supersize me". I can put on 50 pounds in a few months just by eating plenty of fastfood, and I can take it off in several months just by eating healthy. The volumes I eat don't change much.

[seabeyond]

23. Get the restaurants to stop selling crap. NO. YOU make the CHOICE

to NOT eat the crap. sometimes i want the crap. sometimes i make the choice to eat the crap. AND i also eat tons of healthy and exercise so i dont need YOU or govt to control the CRAP i consume.

wtf are you talking about deciding whether i make a choice of consuming crap.

that is a bunch of CRAP

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Written by Rep. W. T. Mayhall -- Republican

But he only did it to call attention to how much money obesity costs.

Let's see ... obscure Republican writes a bill guaranteed to piss millions of people off and get them complaining about "the Nanny State" and the government putting a gun to your head ... yep, sounds about Right.

--p!

[AnnieBW]

5. Does that mean that they're not going to serve Barbour or Rove?

Okay, I'm obese. But I don't live in Mississippi, and I don't eat more than anyone else at a restaurant.

[Fridays Child]

6. Sitting near a smoker is dangerous to my health. Sitting near a fat person is not.

Those idiots in the Mississippi legislature will be shot down.

[ixion]

8. so is sitting near children

can we ban those, too?

[Fridays Child]

10. I think every parent can agree that their kids will be the death of them.

But they are not a documented carcinogen. Neither do they cause emphysema.

[ixion]

15. no, but they do spread disease... you may think the example extreme

however it is a valid metaphor. Just because YOU don't mind it, doesn't mean others don't, and THAT is the heart of this debate.

[Fridays Child]

26. All humans spread disease.

And this debate is about whether banning smoking in restaurants is equivalent to banning obese people from restaurants. I maintain that they are not equivalent.

[seabeyond]

28. no it is not about bans in restr, it is about forcing and taking away choice

by govt and special groups

[Fridays Child]

31. Unless it's in an enclosed, separately ventilated section...

...if you smoke in a restaurant, your secondhand smoke is harmful to other diners. However, when you go out to eat, you're not at all likely to be harmed by nearby obese diners.

To suggest that the two scenarios are comparable is disingenuous.

[seabeyond]

32. are you purposely being obtuse?

the reason for the thread is the talk about how now not only are groups going after smokers they are now going after fat people. the ban on restr was showing how they are going after fat people. they could equally talk about companies that are saying slim down or you are fired. or what we feel will be more and more examples of govt and groups dictating behavior.

[Fridays Child]

36. No, but you are.

The OP clearly implies that restaurant smoking bans have opened the door to possible restaurant obesity bans. Are you similarly angry about groups that go after red light runners or people who drive on the wrong side of the road? After all, what right does anyone have to tell you that you must protect the health and safety of others, while you're driving your car? I mean driving is legal, isn't it?

[seabeyond]

44. check out post #3. get restr to pull crap out of restr. this is what this thread is about

about groups deciding a person is not responsible for their choices, but govt must protect people from their choices. that is what we are talking about

now you want to bring in laws such as speed and murder and theft. that is nothing to do with the present discussion. totally strawman. what.... do you think murders should go free?

ya... right.... thats what i think.

[Fridays Child]

59. Post #3 is only a sub-thread on a related topic.

And it's sub-thread in which I have not even engaged you. But, since you're evidently determined that I do so, I will tell you that I agree with your position on that topic.

[alarimer]

61. More harmful probably to people who work there.

Since they are exposed to it over the course of 8 hours or so compared to 1-2 hours. But still. Smoking around food is just disgusting. I don't know how anyone can stand it. You'd think people could wait an hour before they smoked.

I find it funny that these so-called progressives on this site have a laissez-faire attitude towards smoking in restaurants and bars but not, say, to the other rules that businesses have to deal with, like minimum wage or other health code standards. If a municipality has the ability (and right) to regulate the quality of food and the cleanliness standards, why should they not be able to regulate air quality?

[Fridays Child]

67. Yep. Dissonance reduction is the most powerful force on earth. You can move a mountain...

...as long as you think you can. And I love smokers who say that the danger of secondhand smoke is a myth. There is only one common denominator among so-called scholarly articles which conclude that secondhand smoke is not dangerous: All of the authors are affiliated with the tobacco industry. Quelle surprise, eh?

[LanternWaste]

55. The you belive that environmental regulations

The you belive that environmental regulations are "about forcing and taking away choice"? If not, what is the precise and relevant differenfce?

[ixion]

30. no, this debate is about one sub-group telling another sub-group how to live their lives

and they are all too equivalent.

[Fridays Child]

33. To hell with those pushy sub-groups--like the people who tell me I can't...

...drive at the speed of 45 miles per hour in school zones, just because they think kids shouldn't be run over! It's not illegal to drive a car in this country, damn it, and I'll not be told how or where to do it!

:eyes:

[ixion]

35. Every time a new law is made, we lose a bit more freedom, and a bit more humanity... laws are not

the answer. Laws serve only to feed the beast, and do very little to curb bad behavior.

[Fridays Child]

39. Laws restricting actions that harm no one but the actor are wrong.

Do you agree with that statement?

[ixion]

41. yes, but I also believe that Laws restricting morality are wrong

You cannot legislate morality. Because what winds up happening is exactly what we've got today. A whole varied range of subcultures who want to see their beliefs on the law books. The use of laws should be used sparingly for the basics: physical violence, burglary, physical assault. All groups agree that those things are bad. But when you start splitting hairs: smoking, drinking, weight, drug use, prostitution, etc, you've stepped onto the slippery slope and are on your way down.

[Fridays Child]

42. When your secondhand smoke harms my physical health, it's not an issue of morality.

It's a form of assault. Do you not get that?

[ixion]

43. no, I do not... second hand smoke is a myth

hence the crux of our disagreement.

If you want to ban things that are bad for you, there's far worse things I can think of. I would start by banning stress. Stress is one of the biggest killers out there. I'm being facetious, of course.

Going back to my original example: children. If I were a super control freak I would pass a law that would force families to move out of the common realm when their children were young, because children spread disease (moreso than adults do).

But see, I'm not a control freak, so I don't. I put up with it, even though it bothers the hell out of me.

[Fridays Child]

48. Second hand smoke is not harmful?

That desperate argument for justifying behavior that harms others has been debunked so completely and so often that I'm not going to even bother. So, go ahead and hang your hat on that and we'll just call it a day.

[ixion]

50. fair enough... time for a smoke

:smoke: talk to you later.

[seabeyond]

51. that is why you see massive amounts of children and adults droppin dead

right and left of you..... that have lived with smokers.

[Fridays Child]

53. "Dropping dead" is the standard that must be met for assault to be illegal?

I did not know that! :eyes:

[seabeyond]

56. no it is the result that ALL your studies that you insist are right on

and we must believe at all cost without questioning. that people are dying from other peoples second hand smoke. i am not seeing mass quanities of bodies, children and adults droppin dead from suckin in second hand smoke.

why are you being obtuse at every point?

[Fridays Child]

62. You keep making bad arguments and calling me obtuse. Where did you learn that tactic?

Name me one study that even attempts to suggest that secondhand smoke has the widespread effect of making its victims drop dead. You can't because no one ever said that.

Making up a stupid argument and shooting it down to support your position is the classic logical fallacy known as a straw man argument. You're wasting my time.

[cushla_machree]

68. I have seen many many children

With severe asthma....and what do you know, their parents smoke like chimmeny's. But your right, no connection whatsoever. SMoking has NO effect on asthma. Its all in their head....

This post is ridiculous. The issues are totally different. Smoking has gradually been phased out of public venues over the years, and soon this will be normal. States across the country and other places like ireland have instituted these bar and restaurant bans. The benefit to the public far outweighs anyone else's minor inconvenience. A ban like that can work because smoking affects other people, whereas these other ridiculous ideas will never pass muster.

[seabeyond]

69. and boy, the three i know parent's didnt smoke, and all my friends

and i that had smoking parents are perfectly healthy. i am buying it. can it be genetically some people prone to asthma, and genecially some are not. that smoke and many other things triggers asthma. doesnt that sound kinda reasonable anyway.

[cushla_machree]

70. I am not saying smoking can cause asthma

But, being genetically prone to asthma doesn't mean you are going to get it. My mother and grandfather both have asmhta. My grandfather smoked, my mother grew up around cigarette smoke. I have never smoked in my life and never have been subjected to it in the household, and i have not developed asthma even though i have the same immune system as my mother and grandfather. I believe without a doubt, i would develop asmtha is i smoked, and i would probably die of lung cancer like my grandfather.

But, you could also have no history of asthma in your family, and if you grow up around smokers, who is to say you won't get some form of asthma? Its not rocket science that smoke irritates and damages the lungs.

[seabeyond]

71. i thought you were saying smoking causes asthma. but then you would not be the

first to make the claim. check out some of the ama studies. they will state that though they have no evidence it is true. but saying it makes it so.

[seabeyond]

47. no one is arguing a damn ban on your rest, nor you suckin up second hand

let us clearly say here and now, ..... NO ONE wants you to suck up anyones second hand..... the laws are going beyond you sucking up anyones second hand.

we are talking about the smoking laws past that are beyond the non smoking in restr. about people being fired because they smoke at home. about people being fired cause they are fat, or not treated in hospital cause fat or smoker ect.....

[ixion]

52. exactly

:applause:

[Fridays Child]

65. Actually, our discussion has been about bans on restaurant smoking and obese diners.

But, once again, if you insist on going off in another direction, I agree with you that people should be allowed to smoke in any place which enables them to do so without harming others.

As for our original discussion, every time you've lost the argument, you've either called me obtuse, set up a straw man argument, or moved the goal posts. Give it up.

[seabeyond]

18. then ban the damn hot dogs and i want no one bbq to whiff into my space. n/t

[Fridays Child]

27. Two headlines: "BBQ Aroma Cause of Major Public Health Problem"

"Police Cracking Down on Forced Hot Dog Consumption"

:eyes:

[Dawggie]

19. Faulty logic.... Don't get between me and my Key Lime pie!

The health consequences would be quick and severe. :)

[Fridays Child]

29. How so?

Nobody said that you don't have the right to eat anything on the menus of the restaurants you patronize.

[Dawggie]

34. That was in reply to your statement that sitting near a smoker is dangerous

and sitting next to a fat person is not.

So I inferred that if you were between me and a piece of key lime pie the situation could be dangerous.

It was a joke.

[Fridays Child]

37. Oops. Gotcha.

Or you got me, actually. ;)

[ixion]

7. pretty soon, you'll have to provide a sample of your DNA

and they'll tell you what you can eat.

You think I'm kidding, but I'm not. It will go there, and beyond, I'm afraid.

[greenbriar]

9. I noticed and posted this yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2808122&mesg_id=2808122

[Holly_Hobby]

40. I missed it, I'm sorry. n/t

[IDemo]

11. I guess Jared of Subway fame would have been banned from that diet?

and people wishing only to take advantage of salad bars, as well??

[varkam]

12. So...what? We're going to starve them thin?

Wonderful idea, Senator. :crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Smoking is an addiction, so is food, but our puritanical society

is once again not seeing how we play a role as a society, in the development of these diseases

By the way... doing something about the morbidly obese is not a bad idea, just that this approach sucks

[seabeyond]

16. yes, but we hate the smokers so, it is worth it. further, i will even believe all the lies

and exaggerations about second hand smoke in order to hate so and justify the beginning. rollin eyes.....

of course it was just the beginning and people refused and will continue to refuse to see in their hate of smokers. it isn't even a hate of behavior, but a hate of the person as a whole. they have allowed the mob rule to create an illusion to allow the hate.

smart going

same thing as all the lies and distortions that republicans have created and the religious have created and so many people for personal agenda allowed themselves to be convinced of, because they wanted to believe.

we deserve, we earned, we created what is to come. i want to hear no bitchin when others rights are taken and more and people want me to stand for them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. So you say I imagine my athma going haywire and needing steroids

when my dad smokes around me?

Okie dokie... will let the doc know, so he can prescribe the proper anti hallucinatory medications.

By the way, science and scientific fact aint't hate

[seabeyond]

22. of course that isnt what i said and you know it. so i say, YOU are playing

the dumb shit game that the anti's play in order to justify.

what else equally bothers your asthma and all the things YOU have to be concerned about and be careful about because of your illness that you have? i know i had a friend that moved to az because of asthma and the humidity of where he lived prior. i had another friend at a younger age that used swimming and different things inflicted his asthma attacks. things he had to be aware of and be responsible for because of his condition.

NO WHERE did i advocate a non smoker to be forced to breath smokers air. no where did i go into my beliefs of the studies that are used merely to go after smoking and nothing to do with fact or honesty. all that is unknown to you

and you simply made up an argument that had NOTHING to do with me. also didnt address the intent of my post.

[devilgrrl]

17. I can't wait for the crackdown on bleached blondes

it's long time coming.

:silly:

[TahitiNut]

24. Well, natural blonds like me would appreciate that.

:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

25. ya, well.... your more susceptible to skin cancer so NO blondes...

just cause.

[Skittles]

72. THANK YOU

OMG I AM SICK OF PROCESSED BLONDES

[distantearlywarning]

38. I can see it now - a bill banning blondes and redheads from tanning salons

That's the ridiculous place this kind of crap legislation is going, you know. Eventually we'll all be legislated to within an inch of our lives in an effort to make sure no citizen ever does anything that could possibly ever be the slightest bit harmful. We'll all have to walk around wrapped in bubble wrap just in case we might fall down on the sidewalk and cost some other taxpayer money for stitches or a sprained ankle. We'll all live to be 110 in completely sterile environments, eating bland MREs designed to keep us at some perfect government designated weight. Won't that be a fun life??? :eyes:

[Jed Dilligan]

45. LOL

Fat guy walks up to counter at Mickey D's.

"Gimme a cheeshburger," he says, barely able to stand.

"I'm sorry, you've had one too many," says the clerk, "I'm cutting you off." Fetches coffee in styrofoam cup. Cut.

[seabeyond]

49. ah.... but what about the one not so clear.... step on a scale before you get fries

i would like to see that one. and then, how do we judge those with muscle and those with fat, get the fat o meter out and measure percentage of fat to muscle. and then that brings in heredity. oh oh and gotta tell those with diabetes and high blood pressure no to. i know..... gotta have a doctors permit to get the crap

[Jed Dilligan]

57. Have you ever watched the show "Airline"?

Much of it concerns the staff's attempts to determine either who is too drunk or who is too fat. Fatness is an exact science: if the armrests come down, they don't have to buy another seat. Drunkenness is a fine art, but usually the people become combative (i.e., unflyable) before it comes down to cops and breathalyzers.

[seabeyond]

58. ya.... well, i am so pissed at airports ect... doesnt take booze for me to be combative

so they better use the breathalyzer to decide.


no i have never watched the show. probably piss me off more than the show "cops"

[Jed Dilligan]

60. If you have netflix you can get it on instant view

I've had my moments at airports, but I've never been denied boarding.

I look at some of these folks and go, damn! I've gotten on a plane with six beers and two vicodin in me and no one ever took a second look.

[WinkyDink]

46. What if they want a salad, dressing on the side? Or broiled fish? This bill is OBSCENE.

[LanternWaste]

54. Seems to me that we smokers have fewer regulations put on us

Seems to me that we smokers have fewer regulations put on us than are on industrial sites to prevent pollution...

IN MS, is a legislator, regardless of how much of a nut-job allowed to write a bill for the state leg to consider it? If so, it seems quite a fair degree of difference between considering a bill and passing one-- unless MS has simply passsed every bill put before it...

[Echo In Light]

63. When The People pussed out and didn't tell the govt to go fuck themselves re seatbelts...

Opened the door, paved the way. Oh sure, one could cite other examples...I just happen to find the seatbelt law rather insidious. A perfect example of how propaganda of "safety" covers for the true agenda of state revenue, and offering cops the convenient opportunity to pull you over and snoop into your life.

[seabeyond]

64. fuck themselves re seatbelts... YOU are so right on. yes,

you are right. i have been fighting that one since the day it was let thru.

[underpants]

75. SMoking bans are primarily done to lower insurance rates

much in the same way that seatbelt laws did.