Do you honestly believe we'll get health coverage out of this election?

[graywarrior]

I think it's a pipe dream, but I'm cynical as hell. I mean WTF, the insurance companies own our political system. I'm beginning to think I need to choose my vote based on something other than health coverage and that pisses me off.

What say you?

[fenriswolf]

1. no we will still pay for something

that we no longer recieve.

[havocmom]

2. healthcare? Nope.

industry profit? yep

[blondeatlast]

50. What you said. I read the Physicians for a National Healthcare Plan today

and they don't like any of 'em--and rightfully so:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008_Elections.php

[Yael]

3. No, I do not.

The next 4 years will be about paying back the donors on their pet causes.

[leftofthedial]

4. no way in hell

we'll just end up even more under the thumb of the corporate oligarchy, just as sick and fading and poor and desperate as we are now, but worse.

[Fridays Child]

5. Yes, IF we elect a Dem prez and keep a Dem majority in Congress.

[RC]

19. But the problem is we don't have any real Dem running.

Only DINO's. Too many Dino's in congress now.

[EFerrari]

6. No but I'm as cynical as hell, too.

:)

[orleans]

36. same here. cynical says no health coverage. n/t

[dkofos]

7. Not in my lifetime.

[Omega3]

8. I have no real faith in this country re: health care

it will be tied to your job, too expensive, the bill will be written by the insurance industry etc. just like the great Medicare Rx bill that was written by the Pharma industry. No faith

[rzemanfl]

9. I am not even sure we'll get an election out of this election.

Third time's the charm?

[Individualist]

10. No

All the talk we're hearing is just another dog and pony show.

[NC_Nurse]

11. I think we'll get it. But it won't be easy and it

won't look exactly like the current proposals. A lot will depend on what the makeup of the legislature is.
I wouldn't cast my vote on that one issue. I'm not.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Of course not.

[Desertrose]

13. This whole frikkin election pisses me off.

I gave up on decent healthcare when they excluded Dennis.

Yup insurance companies own the healthcare system. The rest is owned by all the other corporate interests.

[scarletwoman]

20. Hey, sister! Did you see that we posted at the exact same time?

Hiya! :hi:

:loveya:
sw

[Desertrose]

21. Great minds and all that!

How ya doin these crazy days??
:loveya:
DR

[scarletwoman]

27. Great minds, indeed!

:D

I'm hanging in, some hard stuff happening in RL, but my spirit is fine.

How's things by you?

:loveya:
sw

[graywarrior]

35. Great minds...even pissed off, ay?

[EFerrari]

39. What kind of healthcare begins with insurance companies?

:crazy:

[scarletwoman]

14. The only "health care" we'll see, will be how much care will be given to the insurance cos., to keep

their profits healthy.

sw

[Desertrose]

15. Bingo, my sister!

:hi::hug:
DR

[scarletwoman]

24. And again! Sisters!

:woohoo: This is so cool!

Thanks so much for brightening my day -- I LOVE it when I see you on a thread, it's always a treat!

Anyway, I'm particularly happy to feel happy because I have been feeling so angry and disgusted about so much of this stuff.

We are just a herd of cows for Financial Elite to milk.

:hug:
sw

[Desertrose]

34. This cow's too old ...I'da been hamburger by now.

The Financial Elite...pffft!....may they get mad cow disease from my meat!

:)Thank goddess for my sisters!! (and brothers too!)

:hug:
DR

[TahitiNut]

23. Exactly.

We'll also see a huge increase in media 'coverage' of how people are at fault for their own health problems (the "blame the victim" story line plays well in red Amerika) and how the terrible trial lawyers are raising everyone's health care costs by suing in cases of malpractice. (Nevermind that hospitals are killing people at unprecedented rates.)

The "fickle finger of blame" will be pointed EVERYWHERE except at the insurance companies that are keeping people from getting adequate health care.

[scarletwoman]

29. Oh man, you've got THAT right! Not ONLY will we reamed even HARDER by the ins cos,

they'll be dictating a whole new set of rules for us to prove ourselves worthy of receiving their beneficence.

sw

[leftchick]

30. and Big Pharma

they don't call it Healthcare INDUSTRY for nothing. :(

[scarletwoman]

43. Oh yeah, definitely Big Pharma will be well taken care of as well. Thanks for bringing it up!

:yourock:

:hi:
sw

[napi21]

16. I think a lot depends on what % of the Congress we manage to get.

IF we get a super majority in the House and CLOSE to 60 in the Senate AND a Dem PRESIDENT, YES! But don't kid yourself. NO HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ANYWHERE IS FREE! EVERYONE will have to pay something, and we should! If we can manage a system where everyone is convered, EVERYONE'S costs will come down.

[L0oniX]

17. No I don't and besides we are going to run out of oil soon anyway.

Health care won't matter when we are out of oil and the only ones with gas will be federal state and local governments and the military. Of course they will need the gas so all the pigs can try to keep the masses from rioting for lack of food. In short, we are doomed.

[CrispyQ]

18. No.

The number of uninsured will increase drastically over the next 4 years regardless of who wins the election.

[Billy Burnett]

22. Only commie pinko's have universal health care

education too.

www.twnside.org.sg/title/learn.htm

[Mika]

41. Because universal health care and education are 'radical' ideas.

;)

[Greyhound]

25. Gee, let me think...

NO!

[DemGa]

26. The obvious answer is Hillary tried it in '93

Sweep the Congress and the answer is yes. Clinton/Obama would get those numbers.

[dkf]

28. If it is a matter of sweeping congress then Obama as Pres has a better chance of

getting stuff passed than Hillary.

Obama will have much better coattails than Hillary will.

[ixion]

31. nope, not in the least... we won't get many things if Hillary wins

we won't stop the bogus, so-called 'wars' on terror and drugs.

we probably won't get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

we may not even lose GITMO.

I'll get flamed for heresy, I'm sure, but that's my opinion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. More cynical than you are, some bones will be thrown at us

but nothing of significance will change

[pinto]

33. I agree with the point made up thread. A Dem Prez and a bigger Dem majority in Congress

will bring us closer to universal health care than any other option I've seen so far.

Will it happen in one fell swoop? Nah, I'm not that naive. But given the pressure of rising costs to us *and* employers, and direct care providers - I feel something's got to give.

[graywarrior]

37. All this is depressing and infuriating.

Grrrrrr.

[antigop]

38. No, here's why.....

http://opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=F09&cycle=2008

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

40. We're gonna get shit outta this.

Meet the new boss- same as the old boss.

:shrug:

[LWolf]

42. Not only no, but HELL NO. nt

[Solly Mack]

44. It's a carrot and we'll get the stick

[sendero]

45. Of course not..

.. the only candidate that might have made it happen was never really a contender, and the one who held out at least some hope dropped out last week.

[jlake]

46. I think we'll get movement in the right direction.

[warren pease]

47. I think "coverage" is exactly what we'll get...

But the tricky part is that coverage has absolutely nothing to do with health care. Coverage means the continued presence of the for-profit insurance industry, which means that profits will continue to take precedence over people's medical needs.

From what I can decipher from their happy online babbling, both Obama and Clinton advocate some sort of public-private system which focuses on the idea of "expanded coverage" and pretends to approach universality by providing federal subsidies to people who can't afford the premiums. If that's incorrect, please do correct me. It's just that I can only read so much self-serving bullshit before my eyes glaze over.

But the thing that makes me truly insane about continuing the idea of private, for-profit "coverage" is this: "coverage" is just code for "let's invite the single most destructive element in the current system to play a central role in the new one, thereby making sure that this one contains the seeds of its own destruction and is doomed to fail for the same exact reasons this system has collapsed."

So any attempt at reforming the current catastrophe that includes for-profit insurers will inevitably wind up just as inhumane as what we have now.

Coverage and health care are apples and oranges. Insurance premiums are just protection money paid to an organized crime syndicate to keep them from stealing the house, cars, bank accounts and anything else that isn't bolted down should something serious (i.e., expensive and requiring hospitalization) happen.

Can you imagine what it would feel like to have the medically related financial disaster that hangs over all our heads simply removed? Permanently? Can you imagine how people who have spent most of their lives using the ER as their primary care facility would feel if they could just establish a normal relationship with a good family practitioner and not have to worry about bills? And their kids, too? No worries about how to deal with childhood illnesses or vaccinations or...

Single payer, based on an expanded, well-funded and efficiently-run version of Medicare, is so sensible and so feasible that it's painful to know that it's out there, which we all pay for although we're prohibited from using it, and it's our fate, unlike any citizen of any other industrialized country, to deal with this nightmare of a privatized parallel universe in which everybody gets screwed -- docs, patients, medical facilities -- with the sole exception of the insurers themselves.

What utter bullshit.


wp

[Desertrose]

48. Great post. I totally agree with everything you've said. n/t

[varelse]

56. Great post, warren - and a painful reality it is, too

Given that the upcoming election is not likely to remove for-profit insurers from their virtually total domination of US health care, what do you think would work to make this happen? I'm afraid I don't believe that just electing a Democratic majority in both houses and a putting a Democrat in the White house will do it. Something more would be required - but what?

[graywarrior]

58. OMG, thank you for that!

:thumbsup:

[Quantess]

49. No.

Very doubtful.

[blondeatlast]

51. Nope. nt

[varelse]

52. Honestly?

No, I don't. I think whatever we do get, is likely to make insurance companies even more powerful and wealthy than they are now, while only superficially changing anything for the millions of Americans who can't afford health care. All I hope for now, is that I'm wrong about this.

[blues90]

53. I don't think anything will change at all .

This war machine is the main reason this country is broke as are the tax cuts for the rich .

Plus the reality that no one gives a damn about the poor or working class hero and they never will .

Health care was more possible years ago than now and it failed then . What health care is is a talking point to win an election as is everything else .

We have baited hooks out there just waiting to snag the fool .

[Cleita]

54. Nope!

They are only campaigning on it to get votes. Nothing meaningful will be done unless we take pitchforks and torches to the Congress and the White House and demand that they pass John Conyers bill H. R. 676, which sponsors an improved Medicare for all, the only workable plan that is single payer and universal.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_bills&docid=f:h676ih.txt.pdf

[MagickMuffin]

55. Not if the DLC has anything to do with it...............

Below is a list of corporate contributors to the DLC, notice the term Health Insurance Corporations of America. What IS that all about?

I tried a google search on that name and nothing comes up.

So, my conclusion is this: Health Insurance Corporations of America, is a conglomerate of ALL insurance companies tied together in a pretty little package.

Corporate contributors to the DLC and New Democratic Network include Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation of America, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Philip Morris, RJR Nabisco, Chevron, Prudential Foundation, Amoco Foundation, AT&T, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, Raytheon, and many other Fortune 500 companies.

If anyone here knows anything about this please help me understand what this actually means, because I can't get my head around it.

[alarimer]

57. Nope. We need campaign finance reform first.

First we have to prohibit ALL corporate donations to ANY candidate. All of it. No large donations from anyone. Let's say the maximum donation from anyone to any one person in an election cycle is $100. No corporate donations at all. FREE political advertisements in every medium. And they HAVE to allow free ads (just in case media conglomerates balk at that). They the rest is paid for with public funds.

Then, ban professional lobbyists. Yes, I know out-of-work former politicians are going to have to find REAL jobs now but it can't be helped. No more feeding at the public trough. No gifts, no trips, no dinners. FROM ANYONE, even the good guys. No quid pro quo. I would have to allow them to meet with politicians, but it would have to be in public, where anyone could see who they were meeting with. No closed-door meetings, no legislation written by ATT or Time Warner.

Then and only then will we get true single-payer universal health CARE, not mandatory insurance.

[Tesha]

59. Nope. All our representatives are owned, and *NOT* by us. (NT)

[KoKo]

60. Obama and Hillary are talking about it BIG TIME...Why don't you believe them? n/t

[graywarrior]

61. Because I suffer from politician disappointment syndrome

[unkachuck]

62. a fair single-payer system preferred by the people, no....

....a big pharma/insurance company scam to rape the treasury, to maintain the status quo for the corporate interests, sure....look who we're electing....

....there are campaign contributions and profits to be made off of the sick and dieing as we shift from international war to domestic corruption....

....will the situation that bushco hands the Dems be much, much, much, worse than first anticipated, requiring austere measures and political sacrifice, you'd better believe it, that's the cycle....

....remember, GREED!....the only ideology tolerated in the US of A....

[rhett o rick]

63. NO. Nor repeal of the Patriot Act or MCA, etc etc. etc. Status quo. The best we can hope

for is a slow down of the race toward tyranny.

[Orangepeel]

64. we might get a system where everyone can buy insurance like they were a federal employee

and if it were portable and didn't exclude people with "pre-existing conditions" and had some subsidies for people who couldn't pay for it, that's be an improvement.

[Blue_In_AK]

65. I really don't think a whole lot is going to change

but we'll probably feel better about getting screwed over because we'll be able to say Democrats are running the show rather than Republicans.

I remain cynical.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

66. Whoever wins - I don't have big expectations of dramatic change

If at least some of the most damaging things done to this country can be reversed, like getting out of Iraq within a year or two, ending torture as a policy and ending surveillance on American citizens, it would at least be something. I don't expect professional politicians to ever deliver on 90% of what they promise.

I hope that I'm pleasantly surprised, though.

[Skittles]

67. the corporate mainstream media picked our frontrunners

change? right

[OhioChick]

68. Not a Chance. n/t

[madokie]

69. I just hope I get to keep what I have now, VA

since Edwards dropped out I have very little confidence that anything to be of a benefit to us the little guys/gals to be nothing but a pipe dream. My hope jar is running on empty right now.

[Echo In Light]

70. Hell no! Profits over People will continue unless the people take a stand

And that won't occur through voting alone.