Does anybody remember when the economy has ever been this bad

[UALRBSofL]

The new foreclosure numbers show that in many areas 1 in 100 homes are in foreclosure

The dollar has dropped to over half the value of the euro

Gas prices have gone from $1.50 a gallon when Bush43 entered office in 2000 to over $3.00 a gallon

The stock market has priced itself into a recession

Crude oil has spiked to $100 a barrel, the highest in history

[sendero]

1. Republicanomics...

... strikes again.

And the Fed is desperate, desperate, DESPERATE to keep the MARKETS afloat (there is NOTHING they can do about the actual economy) until November lest the electorate give the Repugs an even bigger drubbing than they have coming.

Will it work? I don't think so, but we'll have to wait and see :)

[roguevalley]

75. Nixon phase four.

[Mz Pip]

2. Reagan

Interest rates were really high as was unemployment. He left a big deficit, too.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[pinto]

7. Yeah. Coupled with the beginning of dismantling social programs, governement

regulatory oversight and unions.

[Mz Pip]

8. He did some terrible

things as Gov of CA. Closed the mental hospitals, cut funding to the universities and tear gassed UC Berkeley.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[pinto]

13. The loss of in patient care for the mentally ill is still rued here.

[mac2]

103. Families with mentally ill couldn't get the right care

and had to sit by while their loved ones wondered the streets.

[lvx35]

9. Are you serious?

I was in elementary school, I don't remember. I thought Reagan was supposed to be the conservative who didn't screw things up, thus they all point to him over Bush.

So what is the point of being conservative then? All they do is screw up the economy and get us in debt. I mean they always advance this idea that we are sacrificing all these social programs for this rip roaring economy, but what the hell? Does history show any iota of truth to that at all???

[ixion]

16. Reagan was no good for the economy... we had a years long recession

lots of unemployment, inflation, and businesses going under. There was the savings and loan scandal, and the loss of civil liberties.

Reagan opened the door for the BS that BushCo has realized.

[coalition_unwilling]

77. The worst recession since the Great Depression occurred during

Reagan's first term. He brought inflation under control on the backs of the working class.

In 1983, when I graduated college, the unemployment rate in Kansas City Missouri was 12%!!!

The only thing Reagan deserves any credit for, imho, is the (close but no cigar) nuclear disarmament agreement he reached with Gorbahev at Reyjkavik. The neo-cons (among them Richard Perle) managed to torpedo it by convincing Reagan that he would have to give up SDI (Star Wars).

[mac2]

18. "Trickle down" Reagan economics

was a failure just like the "smaller government" was under Bush. It's all lies to steal and destroy our country.

Reagan and Bush are the same Fascist gang. The rich got richer and more scary.

[kineneb]

53. we called it "tinkle on" economics

'cause that is what it feels like for the rest of us...

[Mz Pip]

19. His positive legacy

is pretty much a fluke IMHO. He gets credit for the demise of the Soviet Union and the fall of the Berlin wall which happened shortly after he left office. People don't seem to get it that the people in the Soviet Union were very ready for change. Gorbachev helped as well.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[mac2]

38. Reagan didn't make the Soviet Union fall

They went bankrupt from their Empire Building and constant wars. Afghanistan was the main reason at the time (like we are). Even Gorbachev admitted as much.

Since Russia became "democratic" all the old guys are still in power. Call it what you want but it ain't free or democratic. It's corrupt. Reagan and Govbie allowed the elite to steal the Common Wealth for themselves. All the people owned things were sold at a song to the elite. The people given a few coupons which they sold for food, etc.

Russians have to sell their children to survive even now.

Reagan made Russia worse off. Just like everything else he touched. We almost went bankrupt from his excessive spending. As I said, we haven't paid off the Reagan debt after twenty some years.

It is not a good thing America that Reagan did for us. We are back at square one with less money, power, or security.

[lvx35]

45. That's something I do know about...And you're right.

And yes, the Soviet Union collapsed because of the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was just the ax-man, who decided to cut the leg off before the infection spread to the whole body so to speak...But I do think they are better off now than they were, and they were on a great track before resistance to Bush remilitarized them and made them embrace strong-man Putin and their old ways.

[Mz Pip]

54. Kind of like we are now

- going bankrupt from our Empire Building and constant wars. It's amazing to me that no one is will to make that comparison. Ron Paul hints at it and all the Repugs just roll their eyes.

But Reagan did get credit for bringing down the 'evil empire'. Wrongly so, but conservtives turned him into a saint for that. I remember the fall of the Berlin Wall and no one seemed more surprised by the festivites than GHW Bush.

In the place of the USSR we now have to deal with the Russian Mafia, corruption on steroids and rising terrorism.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[sabbat hunter]

68. actually

the stealing/selling of the wealth happened under Yeltsin, not gorby.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

27. The point of being conservative is to steal from the poor and give to the rich

Since I began supporting myself many years ago, I prospered when Dems were in control and lost when repubs were running things. I advanced in my career during Dem years; got laid off during GOP years - and I mean within weeks of inauguration. Dem, I was plush; GOP, I was (am) poor. Conservatives destroy healthy economies.

[mac2]

40. And it's happening all over the world

the monkey "conservatives" are stealing as much as they can horde.

[TalkingDog]

56. Regan was like Shrub

"Non-threatening", "charming" and with half a brain (I apologize to the Alzhiemer sufferers out there) He was a meat puppet for the movers and shakers with an agenda.

As far as the citizens:
He made a lot of businessmen happy by deregulating, busting unions.
He made the proto-Freepers happy by pissing in the corners and talking tough to Russia.
He was a "sincere" (geez, he was an ACTOR...ya think?) "folksy", "down to earth guy".


Not a guy you'd want to have a beer with, but more like a father figure you'd ask for common sense advice.
At least that how they were selling him.



My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[ReformedChris]

65. Bush 41's Recession was horrible and it was tough on my family, very tough times nt

[dysfunctional press]

69. the people with the money and power own the american media...

and the "winners write the history books", so they get to deify reagan, and perpetuate their myth that he was good for america and the world.
the only ones he was good for was the monied, powered, elite.

[mac2]

10. We had to pay 12% interest rate for our condo

Hero of the Conservatives Reagan's debt has still not been paid off after twenty years. So even though they brag about individual responsibility, etc. seems they have none.

The mentally ill were put on the street with drugs. Our mental health care system has been in crisis ever since. Where is that Conservative "compassion"?

Star Wars was a propaganda ploy to think Reagan could develop weapons to protect us. If only we spent enough! Actually it was used for fake weapons which didn't work and space war ones that might.

Reagan started the king concept for President. He liked living in luxury on the public dollar. Don't give a single "tax payer" dollar to blood sucking single Moms though. Reagan had his own Cadillacs pulling up at the White House for their share of the public treasury. They were dressed better and had important titles.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Interest rate on my first home was 12.5% in 1986

And the people who bought the house from us were elated to take over our mortgage because the rates had increased even further by the time we sold.

People keep saying Reagan won the Cold War we never disarmed Russia. They still possess thousands of nukes. Enough to kill us all. Not much of a win in my estimation.

Don

[Kahuna]

24. Interest was almost 18% under Carter. nt

[mac2]

39. For a home mortgage?

[onenote]

87. yep. My first mortgage was 16.75% in the early 1980s

I was in a building that was converting from rental to condo. I had a choice of taking a discount on the purchase price or locking in a mortgage rate of around 13 percent. I took the discount because no one believed that mortgage rates could get any higher.

Fortunately, not long after we closed, rate started to drop. After a couple of refinancings I think I had it down to around 10 percent when I sold the place.

[flyarm]

51. i had 21% under carter for my first home..but he was stuck with the debt of the Vietnam war

and the excess spending by Nixon and ford!

the dems always have to pay off the repigs debt..haven't we all figured that out yet???????

fly

[flyarm]

52. I was laid off by American Airlines in 1973 , the first time they ever had a lay off..

because the cost of fuel was so high..people were in lines to buy gas..and couldn't always get it.

yes we have seen much worse times ..and the depression was even much worse..

but this time under little lord pissypants may be even worse because our society is so spoiled...and arrogant..and i see such an arrogance by young people today..god forbid they can't get what they want..and fuck no ...they won't go to war..but they will tell you its ok for others to go to war..

and fuck..they don't want health insurance payments taken out of their paychecks ..oh hell no...we should all subsidize them ..haven't we all seen those posts today..if you haven't you won't have a hard time finding the OBAMA propaganda it is all over these boards

yes we are in for a shock in this country..but it will be the youth that is in for the greatest shock..and maybe thats good..i don't know


oh and i can say in Fla..we are already in a depression..people just don't realize it yet.


fly

[sabbat hunter]

71. under carter

interest rates were sky high because Paul Volker was trying to get under control the sky high inflation (and he did, but it caused a recession at first)

The deficits ran up under Ford and Nixon were relatively small (Nixon even had a surplus one year)

http://www.uuforum.org/deficit.htm


I am willing to slam nixon for many things, but he did keep the budget under fairly good control for most of his terms in office.

Both of them were believer in Keynesian economy practices. Believers that a small deficit to boost the economy in hard times (1973-1974).

It wasn't until Reagan took over did the supply siders rule the roost in the white house.

[Lorien]

59. Yep. I remember going to apply for a busperson job at a Bob Evans

during Reagan's second term. About 200 other people showed up for the same position and the line wrapped around the front of the restaurant. None of my classmates at the time ever imagined that they could own a home because interest rates were so high. College was unaffordable to many, and college grant programs had been slashed to near non-existence. The deficit was sky high, and we all wondered if crazy ass Ray-gun would hit "the button" at any moment, giggling with glee as he vaporized us all. It was NOT a great time to be an American!

[Drifter]

78. Indeed ...

I was in college in the 80's.

Despite the computer industry being the big hot job market, I did not get a job that paid over poverty level until the early 90's. During the Clinton Admin, my salary quadrupled. Since 2001, my salary has been unable to keep up with the cost of living.

Cheers
Drifter

[stevedeshazer]

3. Yeah. The Ford administration.

Those gas lines, stagflation, and WIN buttons were the shits.

[Danmel]

4. Not to mention

Meatless Wednesdays and 20% interest rates. Those were the days.

[mac2]

5. Depends how old you are?

[yourout]

6. Most of the 80s and early 90s.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Yes. It has been worse. n/t

[Clear Blue Sky]

12. 70s

Double digit interest rates, unemployment and inflation in the 70s.

[mac2]

15. Buffalo, NY lost half their population since the 70s

The "recession" never ended there.

[SoCalDem]

84. and their electoral clout went with them

:(

[WinkyDink]

29. My now-83-year-old mother made her little nest-egg then. I guess you don't also recall

how large the interest rates were on Certificates of Deposit, compared to today's anemic pittance??

[JosephSchmo]

33. High interest rates was due to inflation

[WinkyDink]

85. My mother was and is very thrifty.

[mac2]

101. So WinkyDink what are you saying?

This justifies the fact that Buffalo has been brought to its knees? Your Mother was thrifty?

[SoCalDem]

91. Yes those rates were wonderful (for older people who HAD some money)

and coincidentally, those were the very same people who benefited most from medicare & upgraded social security & the GI Bill & $1-down houses ...and pensions & union jobs..

They were indeed, the lucky ones...our grandparents ..

The Boomers just starting out?? not so much.. we had nothing "extra" to invest..and over time, all the benefits just republicaned away..right before our eyes.

[mac2]

102. Those high interest rates won't help them pay those

health costs and nursing home fees today.

[donheld]

66. Welcome to DU Clear Blue Sky

:hi:

[RoyGBiv]

14. Yes, I do. n/t

[NEOhiodemocrat]

17. I am 57

And I don't think that I have ever seen the economy this bad. It looks like things are just piling on, one bad thing after another. What bugs me is how they try to lay it on the 'baby boomer' and Social Security, as if we have not been paying into it since the '60's. As far as I am concerned it is the miserable excuses for leadership who couldn't keep their hands off the money. For example, how bush got us in the shape he did in 7 years. I swear if I ever hear one more person say Democrat's tax and spend and Republican's are fiscally responsible I will loose it. The Republican party now as, far as I am concerned, is the fiscally deranged, they think we can put everything on credit and let other countries carry us because we are the good old USA. And can't get enough credit? Well, lets drop those old social programs, pull yourself up by your bootstraps mister, we need to spend our money trying to fight an endless war. Wondered if they ever considered the reason that the Democratic party will have to raise taxes is to pay for their fiscal mistakes, I am afraid that is what it is going to come to. Then we will hear their "I told you so" about the Democratic party raising taxes.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Sure. Kennedy and Nixon tried wage and price...

controls, Carter and Ford had "stagflation" and some older than me remember that little thing called the Depression.

The difference is that this is the first time since that Depression that we might possibly be seeing the end of it all. The stakes are much higher now, and the fundamental problems much deeper, than they were at any time since WWII.

Thinking back as far as Kennedy, which is as far as I remember, every time a cyclical recession hit nobody really knew what to do. All sorts of macroeconomic theory was flounced about and we had monetary, fiscal, and market policies thrown at it with little real effect. The best we ever really did was possibly stave off worse things, and ultimately we came out of it because the economy is cyclical. People work, new products are invented, people buy them, and life goes on.

This time, though, the problems are more microeconomic and while we still don't know what to do, there's no guarantee that we will pull out of it.

We might finally be coming to that head that Malthus, the Club of Rome, and others warned us about-- that we are finally straining the limits of the planet to sustain us.

[ThomWV]

22. Oh, Holy shit yes. I hate to say it but during Carter it was horrible.

Inflation at 20%. Home loans? Forget it at 18%. Energy shortages and a political climate almost as bad as during Clinton's Impeachment.

[Kahuna]

23. Oh Brother! That is the worst during my lifetime. But this one will be...

a combination of Carter and Bush 2. :scared:

[WinkyDink]

32. Interest on CD's = 18%. Nice little dividend.

Homes for $65,000, now $250,000---the very same (I mean SAME) homes.

[Ilsa]

44. Yep. 1980 and 1981. Huge interest rate gap between what banks

charged on prime rate loans and what they paid on jumbo CDs. They made lots of money with that spread.

[cottonseed]

46. I was just a tot during those days, but that's the way I've read it.

Funny thing is with interest rates so high, I'd almost love to have been saving my money during those days.

[mac2]

47. We could only buy $5 worth of gas at a time

while gas tankers sat in the harbor waiting to be unloaded. It was a false oil crisis which I will never forgiver Carter. He was and still is full of "DC swamp gas".

[Iktomiwicasa]

25. I can...

...because it's always been as bad as it is now where I live.

[moondust]

50. Are you pulling for any candidate in particular?

Just wondering.

[lpbk2713]

26. Home ownsership used to be a common goal for a lot of young couples.

Now most think it is just plain unrealistic

to even dream about owning their own home.

[JosephSchmo]

34. the decline in housing prices will make it more affordable

[mac2]

36. But will you be able to sell it when you want because of

over building?

[lpbk2713]

37. For who?

For investors and slumlords. Certainly not for couples who have to work two shitty McJobs each just to put food on the table.

[JosephSchmo]

43. for anyone who wants to buy a house

250K < 300K < 350K

ergo, the less money a house costs to buy, the more affordable it is.

[lumpy]

74. More affordable for whom? During the 30's depression, the

only people who could afford a home were investors who had the money to invest. At this point in time I know plenty of people who cannot afford to buy their own homes.

[JosephSchmo]

81. for anyone who wants to buy a house

A lot of speculators were buying houses in the bubble. They will be less likely to buy houses when prices hit bottom as the return on investment won't be the same as 2000 - 2005. People who want houses to live in will find the same houses for less money.

[leftofthedial]

28. never in my lifetime

I can not express the degree of my disgust with those Americans who have embraced the lies of the repukes and the corporations and brought this sorry end to the greatest democratic experiment in human history

[AlienGirl]

30. Where I grew up, the Depression never really quite ended

I had classmates in college who were living with indoor plumbing and electricity for the first time (in 1993). I had classmates in high school whose career path was "have a baby now so I can start getting AFDC and food stamps right away, while I can use it to help my parents and siblings."

So, yeah, I've seen it "like this." Just never "like this everywhere..."

Tucker

[klyon]

31. Yes, whenever republicans are in charge.

Nixon with price freezes left Carter a big mess.
Then when gasoline was made out to be in short supply at the end of the 70's.
Things have gotten steadily worst for the little guys since the 50's.

Bob

[jkshaw]

35. Yes, during the Great Depression

I was born in 1930, my father lost his job as machinist in the New York Shipyard when the last ship was finished in 1931, and didn't get his job back until the end of 1936.

No unemployment then; health insurance was an unknown for the working class; relief checks started to move up when FDR took office -- to $7 a month. One third of the workers were out of work.

It's bad right now for a lot of people, but it's got a long way to go to be as bad as the 1930s. In fact, heaven forbid that it should EVER get that bad.

[Ilsa]

41. Yeah, my dad remembers. But he's 81 and lived through the Great Depression. nt

[Thothmes]

93. So does my dad

He got a job in 1936 unload railroad cars carrying coked coal. He and his shovel got paid 25 cents per car. He enlisted in the Navy for six years in early 1940

[canoeist52]

42. " Home loans? Forget it at 18%"

At least the median price of a home was about $46,000 in 1976. Today it is $220,000.

[flyarm]

48. yep..Reagan!!..and it will get worse!! eom

[flyarm]

49. oh and when Carter had to clean up after Nixon and Ford!! eom

[opihimoimoi]

55. Our present economic twoubles are in the same category as most of the past bad times

That is "Caused/happened under/by the Republican Party.

[raccoon]

57. Yes. 1982. I heard it was the worst since 1932, and I believe it.

There were no jobs. Relatives of mine that had worked for years at the same factory were laid off or working reduced hours. And inflation and interest rates were high.

[JerseygirlCT]

88. That was me,

freshly graduated from a very good school.

And not a job to be found, anywhere. I finally got one that required an hour and a half commute into NYC each way (on a stinky bus) for all of $9700 a year. That sucked. (Both the search and the job!).

[vanboggie]

58. I have to say it's worse now

Mostly because so little is manufactured in this country anymore. How do we spring back this time when goods and services have been farmed out to other countries? :shrug: There are just so many fast food jobs available and fewer and fewer people who can afford the luxury of dining out at Mickey D's.

[Az_lefty]

60. yea, 1973...they damned near closed down Seattle.

it was really bad, what we're seeing now isn't even close. However, it could become that bad or even worse if the publican's stay in control of the White House.

[Rex]

61. A gallon of milk went from 4.29 to 3.99, clearly a sign of our economy

booming back to surplus levels unheard of...ha. I hear Exxon made 41 billion they normally, probably wouldn't have made under anyone BUT a Bush family member.

[amborin]

62. ideas...especially how to shore up Soc Security fund

Democrats target wealth gap and hope not to hit economy
Tuesday, November 21, 2006
By David Wessel, The Wall Street Journal

By almost every measure, the gap between winners and losers in the American economy has widened over the past 20 years. In this month's election, anxiety about that gap was not far behind voter anger over Iraq and congressional corruption in driving Democrats to victory. "We will make our economy fairer" vowed House Democrats, in a campaign manifesto.

snip

Today's inequality reflects a confluence of forces. Technology is increasing employers' appetite for some skilled workers, while diminishing it for assembly-line workers in auto and textile factories. Imports and outsourcing are doing the same. Schools aren't graduating enough of the workers in short supply, such as engineers. Immigration is contributing to a glut of others, visible wherever day laborers gather hoping for work. Unions are atrophying. Corporate boards, hedge funds and sports teams are increasingly willing to write super-sized paychecks to a chosen few.

At the extremes, some politicians (not all of them Democrats) believe the benefits of a globalizing, high-tech economy are outweighed by the costs to U.S. workers. They would build a fence around the U.S. to reduce immigration or erect tariff barriers to imports. Even at the Democratic middle -- where the virtues of technology and globalization are prized -- proposals to reduce inequality range widely. They include interceding in the market to raise pay at the bottom or limit it at the top, pushing "Robin Hood" take-from-the-rich tax policies, improving shock absorbers that protect workers when their employers crash, extending health and retirement plans to workers without them and spending more to promote education from pre-K through college.

High on Democrats' to-do list is lifting the federal minimum wage. It's been steady at $5.15 an hour since 1997, while consumer prices have risen 25 percent. Although many economists warn a higher minimum wage means fewer jobs, the 1990s suggest that boosting the minimum wage can boost incomes of those at the bottom. But its potential to shrink the gap between the wealthiest and poorest wage-earners is limited, especially when wages at the top are soaring far away from the middle and bottom.

snip

That's unlikely to become law. But Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat in line to chair the House Financial Services Committee, vows to push legislation that would force companies to provide more and clearer details of CEO pay, devise policies to recapture incentive pay if earnings are later restated, and require shareholder approval of "golden parachute" payments to dismissed executives. Mr. Frank says he plans hearings into a "fundamental" economic question: "How do you do a better job of sharing overall economic growth with the average worker?"

snip

There also is strong support among Democrats for strengthening American labor unions to try to tilt the balance in the labor market more toward workers. A bill co-sponsored by 215 House members and 43 senators, would, among other things, require employers to recognize a union after a majority of workers sign cards asking for representation instead of secret-ballot votes.

A popular alternative among Democrats is to champion the market -- that is, allow it to direct people and money to best use -- and then tax the rich to give more to the poor. Enlarging the earned-income tax credit, viewed by many economists as a smart alternative to a higher minimum wage, is an option likely to figure in Democratic tax deliberations. The credit offers up to $4,536 to a family with two or more children to offset payroll taxes that the working poor pay. And it offers a cash bonus if the credit exceeds taxes paid, rewarding low-wage workers without raising employers' costs.

But most of the focus is on taking more from the top. Many Democrats would let at least some of Mr. Bush's income-tax cuts expire in 2010 or roll them back. Many favor preserving the estate tax, which Republicans target for abolition. New House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has vowed to restore a 1990s rule requiring new spending to be offset by spending cuts or tax increases; upper-income taxpayers are the sure target.

The Senate Finance Committee, with the blessing of both parties' leaders, is circulating a list of ways to shrink the "tax gap" between taxes owed and taxes actually paid. Most are aimed at upper-income taxpayers, such as requiring stock brokers to report not only the price a client got for shares, but also the original purchase price paid.

Boosting taxes on upper-income Americans would reduce disparities and provide revenues for other attacks on inequality. Raising the top two tax rates, now 33 percent and 35 percent, by a single percentage point would yield $90 billion over five years, the Congressional Budget Office estimates.

Another favorite Democratic target is the lower tax rate -- a maximum of 15 percent -- on capital gains and dividends. The administration says the lower rates have strengthened the stock market and the economy. Some Democrats say they're unfair. "We must end the Republicans' war on work, which taxes a millionaire at a lower rate for his stock trades than it taxes the wages his secretary earns for placing the call to his broker," wrote Rep. Emanuel and Mr. Reed.

Also under discussion, often in conversations about ways to shore up Social Security, is increasing the ceiling -- now set at $94,200 -- on wages subject to the Social Security payroll tax

[Xenotime]

63. The economy has never been this bad. * has raped and abused the people..

of this country by allowing this to happen.

[skater314159]

64. In some places, like in poorer neighborhoods, the foreclosure rate...

... is as high as 1 in 20... I even heard that on a few streets/subdivisions it's 1 IN 5!!!

This is really awful, and I hope the American people aren't so stupid as to forget it was BUSH that did this to us!

[AZBlue]

67. Of course. I'm over 40.

Economies go in cycles. That, coupled by the GOP cabal we have in office, have brought about this dip. It's bad but it's not the worst and it's not permanent.

[Skittles]

106. yes

good-paying jobs will be returning from overseas any day now

[amborin]

70. europe pays way more per gallon for gasoline

we need to let gas prices rise as well....only them will there be the political will and support for massive technological development to perfect the electric car, or devise alternative fuels that don't cause even worse pollution or environmental degradation

we need to wean ourselves off our high consumption lifestyle

marcuse and many others spoke to this decades ago....what are our core human values?

more and more things? to make us feel whole?

as for the mortgage mess......

yes, many are suffering and unjustifiably

but many were also super greedy....they raided their home equity thinking it was the bottom less piggy bank....home improvements, spend spend spend....never thinking that they might have to show some accountability

[mac2]

105. Europe pays more for gas than we do

but they get something for it...like roads, public transportation, free health care, etc. We get pollution.

[sabbat hunter]

72. home foreclosures

Many people who had their homes foreclosed were duped by the teaser rate, didn't bother to learn how the the ARM would ballon (or in some cases didn't care thinking they could refinance before it came up)

I don't know if we can blame * for the home foreclosures. The blame should lie with the unsavory loaners who lent money to (in some cases) people who couldn't afford the homes they were buying, but were convinced otherwise.

[mac2]

95. The problem with the home loans were that many bad ones

were made to people who couldn't afford them with little down and then sold. The original deal was bad but they didn't suffer. The package of bad loans was then sold over and over to hide the fraud.

How many have gone to jail over the fraud? None.

Finanical de-regulation since the 80s was a way to hide these financial deals. We should go back to the pre-Reagan regulations on loans, banks, etc. Once again Reagan has left us with debt and corruption. Who was that hero Republicans?

We once had the safest banks and stock market in the world. The Republicans have ruined that...and maybe our future. Explain to me why you won't reverse that?

[lumpy]

73. It is the worst I have ever seen, outside of the 30's

depression. It will get worse when the full force of inflation hits harder, jobs continue to become non-existent, social programs run out of funds, defaulted entitlements, stock investments caput, business failures, education fails, highway/infrastructure decay, eventually, if not sooner, leading to the mother of all depressions.

[coalition_unwilling]

79. During the Reagan recession\mini-depression of Reagan's

first term, adult unemployment rate reached 12% in Kansas City, Missouri. Today's unemployment rate is only 4.9% (as of January 31, 2008). The real unemployment rate is probably 2-3% higher. And the long-term unemployed are rising as a percentage of overall unemploymnet. Still, as evil as BFEE is and has been, this economy is not yet as bad as it was under Reagan's stewardship from 1981-85.

[sakabatou]

76. No

I remember when the economy was good/getting better (Clinton).

[Javaman]

80. Technically speaking, it's never been this bad, given the depth and

breath of its various tendrils into virtually every conceivable sector of society.

[B2G]

82. Let's at least be honest here

It was far worse under Carter.

[SoCalDem]

83. SEVERAL times.. Try buying a house with 15.7% interest

and making a little over $22K a year (3 kids) Denver (1979)

waiting in long lines to buy gas..odd-even final number on license plate..alternate days only

being told that you are paid less because "there are just too darned many of you, all going after the same jobs" (Boomers emerging into the job market)

having what few deductions you could use, summarily taken away (before Reagan, you could deduct interest payments on everything..not just homes, so renters got a break too)

we have lived through MANY recessions (no matter what they called them)..it's just harder these days because as boomers age, we are running out of time to recover from them..

[PassingFair]

90. Here in Michigan....

it sucketh mightily...

We may not have 15.7% interest, but people are trying to
make house payments on homes they paid $350,000 for while
they had union jobs, and now they're bringing home $25,000
a year and trying to STAY in those homes...

It looks like the living wages are gone for good.

Really, it's SCARY here.

Plant after plant is closing.

Get ready, it's spreading.

[JerseygirlCT]

86. Yeah.

We're not that bad, yet, individual situations notwithstanding.

[ileus]

89. If you have a job, these are the best of times....

well except for fuel and food prices...Get those back under control and America would have it made.

[sendero]

92. Anyone who really thinks..

... that there has been any time since the Great Depression that rivals the situation we're in now is not in possesion of the facts.

Just because the MSM isn't talking about it doesn't mean it is not real. There is a real live credit crunch and a real live bank liquidity crunch that is UNPRECEDENTED.

Just because the effects have not tricked down to you yet, don't go thinking you are off the hook because only the truly rich are going to escape this thing unscathed. We are at the VERY BEGINNING folks.

[Skittles]

94. no - this is the worst

in my 50 years, for sure

[BeHereNow]

96. Early seventies- my parents had TERRIBLE fights through it.

They both had good jobs and STILL freaked out about the bills.
It was a very bad time in our lives.
To this day- I refuse to discuss money matters in front of my daughter.
The world is stressful enough for young people.

BHN

[doc03]

97. The early 80's or Reagan Recession was far worse n/t

[defendandprotect]

98. And guess who made all the money that fleecing represents --- ???

[Jed Dilligan]

99. Part of what makes it bad:

The decline of education has left people unprepared to adapt.

[Ganja Ninja]

100. I'm starting to worry.

My job is project estimating for a commercial air conditioning company in Florida. Over the last 3 months I've been bidding projects as if nothing has slowed down. I'm working just as hard right now as I did last summer or even 3 years ago. Despite all the work that is bidding nothing is coming back. In the last 3 months nothing at all and it's the same for everybody else in commercial construction in Florida. There's lots of planning and lots of bidding but nothings happening. No contracts, none at all.

[mac2]

104. The old can't afford Florida any more

Housing in Florida, Arizonia, etc. used to be cheap so the retired flocked there. Now it is more expensive than some cities in the north. Our home is twice the cost in Asheville, NC. The only flocking are contractors.

Even seniors from foreign countries have stopped bacause of their treatment at the airports, etc.

Our health costs for the elderly is eating up a big part of their money.