I could use some help and advice in trying to explain to my kids why using the term "You're gay" is

[Emit]

unacceptable and inappropriate.

Today, my 6 year-old son asked me, "What does gay mean?"

"How was it used?" I asked.

"As in, 'You're so gay,'" he replied.

I explained what being gay meant and asked, "Why? Where did you hear that?" knowing full well that he likely heard it from my 8 year-old daughter -- she's at the prime age for the emergence of such things.

So, "Sweetie, get in here!" I called. She and I discussed the term, with me asking what she thought it meant (she said she couldn't explain it and further pressing made me realize she had no clue what any of it meant), and I explained as best I could that it is offensive to people who are gay to use the term in that way.

Keep in mind I'm talking to an 8 year-old -- a very innocent 8 year-old. "Where did you hear that word being used that way?" I asked. "Oh, everyone uses it at school," she said.

"Everyone like who?" I pressed, wanting to know if some of her best friends were using it.

"Just everyone," she explained.

"What does your teacher say when kids say that?" I asked.

"Nothing. They don't say it around her."

"Well," I said, "I don't want you to use that expression, okay? Being gay is perfectly normal and if someone who is gay heard someone say that expression, their feelings would be very hurt."

She agreed and said she understood, and my son agreed and said he understood, as well. I further tried to explain that the word gay isn't a 'bad' word, as in the 'S-word' or the 'F-word', but it's how it is used that is the problem with the expression.

What do others think here, especially those in the GLBT community? Is there something more I could add to the discussion with my young kids -- or something different I could've said to help them understand this issue?

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

[dsc]

1. humm

For older kids I would tell you to point out we don't say "You're so black" or "You're so white" but for such a young kid I honestly don't know. I know you likely don't wish to get into what gay actually is, nor do I think you need to.

[NMDemDist2]

4. geez if you can't add anything to the OP's explaination she must have done good

:hi:

:hug:

[dsc]

7. yeah she did

and I should have told her so.

[Emit]

11. Actually, my 8 year-old would probably understand the analogy you gave

"...we don't say "You're so black" or "You're so white""...

My son, who is a bit obtuse, inquisitive and outspoken in an innocent way is less likely to get that, considering that when he played football, when we gave a ride to one of his teammates from Kenya, he asked him why he was "so dark." I about shit! He's just so innocent -- he really meant nothing by that other than sheer curiosity. He asks a lot of questions about everything and, having just turned six, he's a bit lacking in appropriate social skills. But still, I might be able to include him with that analogy -- we've had the discussion already about skin color after the episode in the car with his Kenyan friend, so that might be an excellent jumping off point.

Thanks for your input -- and as far as explaining what gay meant, I tried to put it in terms comparing my own relationship with their father to another couple -- two women or two men, for example. I think they got it -- we're pretty open in discussing natural things like body parts, sex, etc. to the degree that it is age appropriate.

[Ian David]

2. Instead of calling people gay, they should call them "Trey."

As in Trey Parker, one of the creators of South Park.

Even fans of the show have to admit, they WAY over-use the word "gay" in the way you describe kids doing it.

So, from now on, if someone or something is lame, sucky, stupid or unpleasant, it's "Totally Trey."


Trey Parker's real name is Randolph Severn Parker III. That name is completely Trey.

[pingzing58]

9. Wonderful suggestion. My High School and Junior High neice and nephew use the term.

I asked them to stop using the term because it's derrogatory. Just like others have said it's like saying that's so Jew, or N****r, it's hate speach. You know, they haven't used that word as a cut-low or derroagation any more at least not in front of me. I remind them often that the language they use when speaking with their friends is often not appropriate when speaking with adults and those in whose presence they should behave respectfully. It's a good lesson for them to learn.

[fenriswolf]

3. get a dictionary that has the term in their

and show them what the word means. then educate them on the differances between being straight and homosexual. then tell him that you don't appreciate using a term to define sexual orientation as a derogatory term.

[dsc]

6. they are six and eight

I am not sure she really wants, or needs, to go there.

[fenriswolf]

8. well you can alwasy go the

"its not right cause I say so route" but besides telling them the truth and telling them not to do it the only thing I can think of is lie.

*edit, your way sounds pretty good to. but when they get older you may want to expound on it.

[Kutjara]

5. I think your approach was great.

You dealt with the issue head-on, without confusing the kids. They now know that saying "you're so gay" is hurtful to people. That's really all that's important at this point.

I'm reminded about the Simpsons episode where Nelson and Lisa fall for each other. The one of the kids in Nelson's gang says, "Nelson likes girls. That's so gay."

[Emit]

12. Thanks for that

I always try, when my kids ask tough questions, to take a deep breath before I answer -- collect my thoughts and keep it simple. But, in this case, I felt I wanted to say more or that I was missing something in my explanation. That's why I thought I'd put this out to others to get input. I can always re-visit this discussion with the kids at a later date. I just want my kids to treat others fairly and not fall into prejudiced thinking. We're not a very religious family, but we do teach the 'golden rule' -- do unto others...

[Corkey Mineola]

10. Good Job and Thanks for Asking!

I think there are some pretty good children's books about teasing. I would avoid trying to explain what "gay" means or even to make the child understand the rationale that we are "normal".


Any suitable kid's book that uses metaphor to explain why it's wrong to use difference as something to target for teasing would be good. Above all, helping the child to build empathy for the teased persons should be a main goal.

Beyond that, I'd talk to the school. Districts and schools that tolerate the ongoing abuse and harassment of queer students, staff, and citizens at large are in desperate need of revised policy with real penalties for violators.

It shouldn't be up to your 8 year-old to tell you this is going on in the classroom, unbeknownst to the teacher. The school must take this on head-on and create a zero-tolerance atmosphere for such bigotry.

I can't resist mentioning that the absence of political leaders who speak openly and without shame about gay rights doesn't help.

Thanks again for giving a darn.

[Emit]

15. Thanks for the advice, and I will use it...

I'm going to approach the teacher next week and ask a few questions about this -- and the principal, too. I know from other posts I've seen and read on DU that this expression has now become so prevalent -- I don't want my kids using it, that's for sure.

Funny you should mention the 'no tolerance' stuff -- my kids' school has a zero tolerance for hitting and bullying and my 8 year-old got into big trouble last year when she hit a kid who was bullying her over the head with her backpack. My girl (I know, she's my kid, but, seriously, I'm trying to be objective) is a sweetheart -- wouldn't hurt a fly, except her brother, maybe. Anyway, I went straight to the principal with this one and the lunch duty teacher who dispensed the punishment was brought in -- turned out she just saw my daughter's actions and didn't take it any further to find out why my daughter would do such a thing. My response was, well, if you punish my daughter in this manner, you're going to create bad behavior. I knew from my daughter's own take on the matter that she was only trying to protect herself -- she's got a little speech problem and when the teacher reprimanded her, my daughter couldn't even begin to speak up and defend herself -- she just got tongue-tied, and she just cried and took it.

One last point regarding the "normal" thing -- I've always considered differences in sexual preferences to be akin to differences in other human traits and characteristics -- all very normal, so to speak. That's what I was trying to get at when I was talking to them. See, they're used to me saying you can't use the 'F-word,' for example, because it's a 'bad' word (of course, they press me as to what the 'F-word' means that makes it so bad, but that's an entirely different problem! :rofl:) -- I wanted them to know that there is nothing 'bad' about being gay - that it shouldn't be considered bad or abnormal. Does that make sense?

Anyway, thanks again for your input -- very much appreciate it.

[Corkey Mineola]

16. No problem ... I like the way you explain your use of "normal"

It's a thorny problem -- the "normalizing" of homosexuality vis a vis biological theory, etc. On the one hand it makes perfect sense and works quite well as a way to increase tolerance of gay folks. On the other hand, however, it subtly plays into the mentality that gay folks don't "choose" to be gay (i.e., they shouldn't be 'blamed' for it.) My sorta radical view is that whether folks choose to be gay or not is irrelevant. They should be accepted and celebrated as FABULOUS members of society. Which I'm sure you'd agree with!!!!

Thanks for being an ally and keep up the good work.

[cbayer]

13. I had some of my gay friends,

people my children really loved, explain it to them. They explained how hurtful and destructive it was. That helped a lot.

[AZBlue]

14. I think you did a great job!

It's not the term "gay" that's bad - it's using it a derogatory way that's unacceptable. Just like you wouldn't say to a guy, "oh you're such a woman" just because he expresses emotions.

Good job!!

[KitSileya]

17. They already know.

"What does your teacher say when kids say that?" I asked.

"Nothing. They don't say it around her."

Point out that if it's speech they won't use in front of their teacher, they already know it's not all right to say it the way they do.

[Emit]

18. Yes, good point. My daughter knew she had said something I didn't like

And in this case, this was different. Most of the times that my kids say something I don't like, it's because they are using a curse word, or insulting each other with terms like "Shut up!" It's easy to say, "Don't say that because that's a curse word and it's not appropriate for kids to use..." or something like that.

This was different in that I didn't want them to think the word 'gay' itself was a curse word = bad word. I don't want my kids to think they are not allowed to use the term 'gay' -- it should be part of their vocabulary in the positive, not the negative. Sometimes, I say, you can choose to use that curse word when you become an adult (like, damn it and the like). However, I think they should comprehend and be able to employ the word gay at any time in their development, and leaving them with the impression that it can't or shouldn't be used makes it, in their mind, a 'bad' thing, IMHO. That was the challenge, in a nut shell.

Funny -- once my son, the younger, made up a fabulous rhyme with the word 'fuck' in it -- it had a very nice beat to it, lol! He didn't even know, of course, what it meant, much less that it was a curse word at the time -- it's a word rarely used in our house. He's always been interested in words, their meanings, pronouncing them and in rhyming. It was very difficult to explain to him why he couldn't use it because he wanted to know what it meant. He was about 4 and a half at the time and it was very hard to explain why he couldn't use it. My kids rarely except that 'because I told you so...' line, and after having grown up with a very authoritarian father who used that frequently, I swore I'd never do the same with mine.

In this case, thank goodness they are getting old enough to know that some words or expressions are just not appropriate, and that I can start to better explain the actual meaning of words (to a degree) and why they can't be used in certain ways.

Sorry my response was so long -- Thanks for your insight. :hi:

[Maine-ah]

19. sounds like you did a fine job in explaining it to your children

good job! :toast:

[knitter4democracy]

20. We have a rule of no name-calling in this house.

My kids are 5 and 7, so they've gotten pretty inventive on the name-calling. They know "stupid" is out and pretty much anything else like that, so now we're getting nonsense words and odd things instead. What we're working on now is the intent behind the word is what hurts, not always the words themselves.

I tell my kids that calling names is a way to hurt someone without using fists, but it hurts just as badly. We haven't had "you're so gay" come up yet, but I'd probably go along that line--that there are gay people who are wonderful, amazing people and that making them a name to call someone is really mean and hurtful. We've already had "fat" and "stupid" and talked about how fat is something that is hard to work on and that my kids are lucky to not have weight problems but I do and know how that hurts and how no one is stupid just because they can't figure out something on the first try.

They understand fat because I'm fat, and they understand stupid because they've both felt stupid on occasion, not getting something right on the first try, so maybe having a gay friend explain it to them would make it more real? Not that it's the gay friend's job to be the LBGT ambassador(ess) to the world or anything, but it helps to put a real face to things like this with young kids, I think.