What "moral obligation" do we have to Iraq?

[kentuck]

I've heard many say that since we created the mess in Iraq, we have a "moral obligation" to clean it up? We invaded that country under false pretenses and set up a divisive Shiite puppet government. Hundreds of thousands have died. Last I saw, we had lost about 4000 Americans with tens of thousands severely wounded for life and we have spent over $600 billion dollars - actually probably closer to a $ trillion dollars.

So how long do we have this "moral obligation"? For a hundred years, as John McCain has suggested? They say if we get out, the place will fall apart or fall into the hands of Iran?

Do we have a "moral obligation" to continue our occupation of a country we should not be in, in the first place? Our moral obligation was not to invade that country. Our moral obligation is to withdraw immediately and to assist from outside in any way that we can. That country deserves sovereignty as much as any other country, including our own. It is not moral to continue the occupation.

The worst scenarios are mostly excuses from those that made the initial blunder of invading that country. The entire Middle East will explode if we leave. Iran will occupy the vacuum. The terrorists can claim they defeated America. These are all excuses by immoral people.

[Deja Q]

1. Can't change the past...

But it can't be denied that to pull out wouldn't cause more problems than they resolve.

[nightrider767]

4. Well that may be the common wisdom...

but how true is it?

A lot of opinions we form of Iraq are a result of information we receive through our media. And that's the reality of things, because for the most part, there is no other source of information.

I think to really answer that, you'd have to have spent a lot of time in Iraq and not in the capacity of a soldier, but as a local.

I think while providing security we're also actually strangling that country.

[madokie]

7. But we do have a rather recent history to look back too. Vietnam

Leaving worked there as the killing stopped or it looks to me like it did anyway. We can't fix Iraq, ever, that will be left for others to do. imo

And yes you are right it would cause problems but those problems we can't do anything about now as we have lost what moral high ground we might have had in the past.

[Winterblues]

21. I think it not only can be denied but demonstrated as false

Use Britain as an example. As soon as they left things calmed right down and the death toll dropped to nothing..America is creating the unrest, not arresting it...

[ixion]

2. we had a moral obligation NOT to invade in the first place

but we did. Now, I would say our moral obligation is to assist the Iraqis in rebuilding their country and to avoid senseless killing, but we're not doing that, either.

[LynnTheDem]

11. Even though the majority of Iraqis (including the majority of Shia & Kurds)

want us out of their country NOW?

That's some "moral obligation" where we ignore (as always) the vast majority.

[ixion]

16. oh, well, I believe we should get out of Iraq... my implication was

that we shouldn't have been there in the first place, and we're not helping anything now. Should have made that more clear. :hi:

[LynnTheDem]

18. I agree with you 110%; and we do need to help rebuild...by getting our asses out

of their country and paying money and supplies hand over fist until that nation's electricity and healthcare and food and water et al are at least back to where Saddam Hussein had them.

And the way we've trashed that country, that's gonna take years and more money than we have left.

[RethugAssKicker]

3. You got it..... Thats all we can do now.

[madokie]

5. when it comes right down to it our moral obligation would be for us to get our asses up

from our confy chairs and get them to dc and put a stop to this Carnage, plus the Coup that is happening right under our noses as I type. I don't have a clue on how to do it but I am about ready to start winging it. All I know for certain is something has to give, innocent people are dying, many innocent people each day I might add too. As long as there is a USA presence in that whole area there will be bloodshed and I'm not so sure the people over there don't have the right to want to kill me now after these last 5 bush/cheney years.

[kentuck]

9. People need to understand this.

"As long as there is a USA presence in that whole area there will be bloodshed and I'm not so sure the people over there don't have the right to want to kill me now after these last 5 bush/cheney years."

This is not Korea. This is not Germany. This is not Japan. So long as we have boots on the ground in that country, there are those that will look to kill us.

[L. Coyote]

6. Under rules of law, there are better terms. I would use legal terms like "damages"

Politicians are lawyers first, not preachers, so rhetoric aside, I'm sure they are thinking more along the lines of liability and damages. If a million people could sue the USG for wrongful death, what would the bill be? These are the kinds of "real world" concerns that influence the public postures of US politicians. "Moral obligation" as rhetoric obfuscates the fact that a "wrong" has occurred, by generalizing both specific damages and failing to elucidate a realistic solution, like removing the problem, an occupation.

[madmom]

8. the best way I've ever heard it put was by a DUer recently(don't remember who)..

"the owner of the china shop would like the bull to leave so they can clean up"

[LynnTheDem]

10. Get out. Which is what the vast majority of Iraqis have wanted from the start.

Including the Kurds.

And pay for the damages. Which is more money than we have left.

[stray cat]

12. We created the mess.

And we have given death sentences to any Iraqi who aided us and potentially to any minority.

[dysfunctional press]

13. complete and total.

we broke it- we bought it.

it's our responsibility.

[LynnTheDem]

19. Except the bought we broke want us out.

Our responsibility is to do what the people of Iraq want; get the fuck out of their country.

Now.

[KansDem]

22. I would like to see Bush, Cheney, and the rest shackled and put in orange jumpsuits...

...then dumped out onto the streets of downtown Baghdad.

Let's see if they disappear faster than a pallet-full of $100 bills.

[dysfunctional press]

24. we can both get out, AND assume our responsibility...

we leave, iraq fixes it's infrastructure with their own or foreign contractors of their choice, and sends us the bills.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. The moral obligation to leave Iraq and leave the oil where it is

The moral obligation to apologize to the Iraqi people for replacing a bloody murderer with nothing better than bloody thieves.

The moral obligation to tell the usurpers of American power that by starting a war to spread democracy and others who by supporting those leaders in taht war they proved that they have no clue what democracy is.

[dkofos]

15. To turn over the war mongers.

[leftofthedial]

17. we have the moral obligation to leave immediately

and to pay large reparations for at least 30 years.

[wiggs]

20. Who is morally responsible for the horror, destruction of facilities, crippling

of institutions, maiming, death of hundreds of thousands, creation of refugees, subjugation of an ancient people, loss of priceless artifacts, and loss of countless childhoods? And how is the responsibility to be met? Certainly, not by further occupation and subjugation, but how?

This is not just an academic or idealistic exercise...that is certainly importatn, but we also need to repair a broken country so that generations of their kids don't despise generations of our kids.

[blogslut]

23. Our forces need to fall back and redeploy as peacekeepers

Then, we need to support the Iraqis in whatever decisions they make as a collective nation. Also, we need to kick all American infrastructure-based businesses out of Iraq, as well as security contractors. Let the Iraqis rebuild their own country and reap the resulting profits from those efforts. If we send any new forces over there, let it be humanitarian ones like the Peace Corps.

[Evoman]

26. You are one smart cookie.

I agree.

[blogslut]

27. I think I stole it from Kerry

Can't remember exactly. Could be a mashup of ideas I've heard.

But no, we can't JUST. LEAVE. I wish we could but we're the ones that trashed the place and throwing money at the problem from great distance isn't enough. We are guilty of a crime and the correct punishment for us is to don the jumpsuits, grab the trash bags and pick up the damned litter*.


* litter - A weak word, representing the destruction and death we have rained down on those innocent people.

[Evoman]

25. Honestly?

Get out. Then give them a percentage of your GDP for the next 20 or so years. After Germany lost the war, they had to pay other countries. U.S. should have to do the same.

[Xenotime]

28. When the fuck did morality become an issue?

[AZBlue]

29. We do indeed have an obligation.

We're not helping anyone by being there now, so we need to pull out but ensure that a coalition (UN?) is there to help rebuild the country with our support.

[Rex]

30. Well, we as a nation are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of

thousands of Iraqis. Civilians. Families. We allowed our military to systematically kill whoever they deem to be a threat, more so politically when Rummy was in charge. No idea about now, sounds like a complete lawless area of the world.

When you kill a nations citizens and call them the enemy, after years you develop a reputation. Not so much for the soldiers, people kinda expect the military to be brutal. More so for the lawless elements you let run around behind corporate sponsors. They kill either side, making a profit the whole time.

8 billion dollars? Just kinda lost it in Iraq, no big deal. I guess we 'paid them back'. :sarcasm: