McCain ineligible to run for POTUS due to citizenship status?

[mnhtnbb]

With all the dirt and accusations and crap being flung between Dem candidates, I thought it might be
fun to see what the rightwingers are bringing up trying to suggest--or at least worry many primary voters that-- McCain is not eligible to be President of the United States under Article Two of The Constitution which states: "A Presidential candidate must be a natural-born citizen of the United States."

Turns out John McCain was born in Panama.

Hubby and I own property in Panama--and have in fact obtained our permanent resident visas. We first bought property there in 2005 as an escape hatch from Bushco. We are toying with the idea of retiring there
permanently within the next couple of years.

An American developer in Panama posted this discussion on his blog about the McCain issue:

http://primapanama.blogs.com/_panama_residential_devel/2008/02/john-mccain-bor.html

I wonder who's behind this?!

[Gman]

1. The 30% is behind this

they'll say and do anything right now, including voting for Hillary, to beat McCain.

[gaspee]

2. Hmmm

Wasn't he born there because his father was in the navy? Don't they get an exemption?

[mnhtnbb]

6. This is basis of the discussion. Natural born is supposed to mean

born in the U.S., not born of U.S. parents overseas, where one might qualify for dual citizenship, which, apparently McCain does, according to the discussion on the linked blog.

[Xipe Totec]

7. There is no exemption from the constitution

It would require an amendment.

[Xipe Totec]

17. However, McCain satisfies the definition of Natural Born Citizen

From Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition: "Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad."

http://home.comcast.net/~sharonday7/Presidents/AP0601.htm

[lapfog_1]

13. Yes, probably born on a US military base.

or, if not on base, born in the Canal Zone, which at the time was US property (leased!).

And all of the wingers should know that because of the wing nutters crying about the US "giving up" the Panama Canal (and the Canal Zone) in 1979. Ronald Reagan used that against Jimmy Carter.

[Swamp Rat]

3. I thought he was born on an assembly line in Detroit.

:shrug:

[mnhtnbb]

4. Love it!

:rofl:

[Shine]

14. Dude, I hope you've got some kind of professional graphic arts job

you are one talented guy. :thumbsup:

:hi:

[rox63]

5. If he was born outside the country to parents who were American citizens

then he is still considered a natural-born American citizen.

Edit to add: I believe his father was in the military. He may just have been stationed in Panama.

[VP505]

8. That won't fly,

McCain was born on a US Navy submarine base (Coco Solo) where his military father was stationed. He is as much a natural born citizen as anyone else.

[lurky]

9. Wasn't the Canal Zone "part of America" until recently?

I think even the foreign country argument may be iffy.

[lapfog_1]

19. If you consider 30 years ago "recent" yes

The Canal Zone was part of the US. This argument will not go anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Zone

[Doctor Cynic]

10. He was born in the Canal Zone, which was US territory at the time.

I wonder whether Iraqis who were born during the year the US was legally occupying the country will the elegible to run when they turn 35...someone could exploit a loophole...

[KansDem]

16. I was born in Hawaii--early 1950s when it was a territory...

I think I can be POTUS...maybe not?

[mnhtnbb]

22. I'm not an attorney. If there are any attorneys in DU who want to take

a crack at this, please do.

It would seem the argument that Ike was born in AZ territory before it became a state didn't cause him to be ineligible. I would think the same would apply to someone born in Hawaii.

However, the Canal Zone has been returned to the Republic of Panama. Apparently (and I don't know if this is true, but am accepting the word of some who posted on the blog I cited), if you were born in the Canal Zone you were still eligible to be a Panamanian citizen.

Here's the rub: the founders clearly didn't want someone who held dual citizenship to be eligible to be POTUS.

[Solon]

30. What the founders wanted has no bearing in this argument...

There is nothing in the Constitution that forbids a dual citizen, or potential dual citizen from running for president IF they are a natural born citizen of the United States as well. If there were such a provision, then a butt load of people from nations that have "grandfather clauses" for citizenship, i.e. if your grandparent was/is a citizen, you can get it too, wouldn't qualify for the Presidency. This would be a blatant violation of the 14th Amendment at least.

To be honest, I find this entire line of argument repulsive, and its settled law already, everyone born on U.S. territory was and is a natural born citizen. Even people who were born in Puerto Rico qualify to run for the Presidency, since at least 1917, as natural born citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_citizenship#Birth_within_the_United_States

[mnhtnbb]

11. This is enough controversy that might cause some people not to vote for him in a primary

And that's the whole idea of pushing this story.

Kind of like pushing the Obama is a Muslim story.

[Shine]

12. It's indicative of the type of infighting w/in a party that's got nothin but fumes left

in other words, this is GOOD for us! :thumbsup: :D

[mnhtnbb]

15. Fun, huh?

[Shine]

20. Yup!!

I'm lovin it. :D

[MADem]

18. They pulled that one out last time, too--he was technically born on "US SOIL" is his retort.

It was a US military hospital.

It sure is an 'issue' and it's probably just as well they air this thing out and let it be decided once and for all. I rather think that American servicemembers will INSIST that their wives or they (if pregnant and on active duty) be sent back to the USA if that's the deal--that their kids can't become president because they were ordered by Uncle Sam to serve abroad....


I will say, I was always given to understand it was a bar to election, many years ago. It's only since McCain has been running (last time and this one) that I have heard the opposite argument.

This issue was raised many MANY decades ago (hell, half a century ago), when there was talk of Christian Herter Senior (born in Paris of a diplomat father in a military hospital) running for President whilst Ike was being coy, or later, having Ike choose him for VP instead of tricky Dick.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,867403,00.html?iid=chix-sphere

[Fleshdancer]

21. People like Coulter are mad at McCain for his stance on immigration....

and now his citizenship is being questioned? Obviously I don't think it's Coulter because she's not smart enough to be this subtle, but this does smells like something the anti-immigrant crowd would latch on to.

I can see the grainy black and white smear ad now...cue ominous music: John McCain is soft on immigration reform. Now we know why! :crazy:

I'm no fan of McCain, but I have to admit that he seems to be the biggest target when the republican infighting is in full swing. I'm still angry about what Rove did to him in SC in 2000.

[mnhtnbb]

23. I found it hard to believe that McCain would cozy up to Bush like he has after

what Rove did to him in SC in 2000.

[Fleshdancer]

25. I had the same reaction!

At the time I assumed McCain was bribed with the VP slot but obviously I was wrong. That odd hug though was truly bizarre and emasculating IMO. I understand it from Bush's perspective because he's a bully, but I still wonder why McCain went through with it.

[mnhtnbb]

28. Stockholm syndrome, maybe?

Loyalty to a more powerful abuser — in spite of the danger that this loyalty puts the victim in

from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

[DavidDvorkin]

24. The same discussion took place regarding Goldwater in 1964

He had been born in Arizona before it became a state, while it was a territory.

That storm passed, and I don't think Goldwater's landslide loss to LBJ was in any way connected to it.

[bdamomma]

26. wow, does this exclude him from running??

http://www.thechicagolifestyle.com/story.asp?sID=67

[mnhtnbb]

27. Here's a right wing blog from last summer dissing McCain and using

the pretext of a future Supreme Court decision against his birth as one rationale to disqualify him.

Clearly, the right wingers don't like McCain and are pushing his birth in the Panama Canal Zone
as one reason not to trust him.

http://www.newsmax.com/lowell_ponte/John_McCain/2007/07/16/18349.html

[gollygee]

29. That area was a US territory or holding or something

it was part of the US at the time he was born anyway, so he is indeed a natural born US citizen.

[Hekate]

31. Already debunked in a lengthy and contentious thread awhile back.

McCain's parents were American, and it's his birthright. Period.

Hekate

[SoCalDem]

32. Canal Zone WAS US soil..as is any military base on earth

My brother was born OFF-base in Panama, so he could not have been president (but he's an asshole and no one would ever vote for him anyway)

He was born at Gorgas Hospital and the lucky bastard got dual citizenship..Panama/US..

I had to be born in Kansas..:grr: no dual citizenship for me :cry: