Know what? I'm sick and tired of the lack of

[cboy4]

compassion around here.

What the hell is wrong with some of you people? Huh?

Whether it's hikers/a San Francisco father lost in the snow -- or people laughing at the Crocodile Hunter dying from a Stingray barb -- or Anna Nicole Smith (who never hurt anyone) dying after losing her son -- or Betty Ford (who lost her life partner but was mocked for being an addict) -- or Tammy Bakker dying from cancer (a terrible person at one time, who turned her life around to help talk gay teenagers out of killing themselves) -- to the recent oh who cares about Heath Ledger comments....etc., etc and the list goes on...especially about rich people and celebrities.

And now there's a poll about Natalie Holloway where 80 fricken percent!!! say they "don't give a fuck?" even though her family is certainly in agony knowing their daughter was dumped into the sea...."wtf" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2818643

I mean, seriously, what is going on?

Is it so difficult to feel sorry for others? Does it drain all of your energy to show compassion?

Yea, the Natalie Holloway story should be a local story. And the media, if it's going to cover missing women should make sure it doesn't fixate on white, well to do women, while ignoring people of color who are every bit as precious....and whose families cry themselves to sleep the same way white families to.

But damn, I'm just at a loss for words.

This is a progressive website, and we're people who should feel for others.

Why can't some of you find it in your hearts to display a lousy ounce of kindness?

Is it that hard? Are you that cruel?

I'm sure a majority of the people here are kind and compassionate. But I can't believe how many assholes post here who are apparently cold, cruel hateful people. And you display it in such a casually vicious manner.

Your lives must be incredibly sad and miserable to not care about other people.

I'm tired of reading these comments and I'm tired of posting about the situation.

Disgusting.

[LostinVA]

1. I think to a lot of people here -- if they don't know the person, it's like they don't really exist

[Echo In Light]

2. My response to the Holloway story lies in media exploitation, not her family's grief

If one reads through some of the posts, that is self evident.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Correct

The Holloway poll is about the media blasting this story to the exclusion of all else. If you want lack of compassion, turn your anger at CNN, Faux and the rest.

[question everything]

54. And this is true about Anna Nicole Smith and Heath Ledger

it is as if nothing else happens in the world. Especially with Anna Nicole, it just dragged on and on, and with the child custody trial and that judge.

At least with Holloway we are talking about a real crime, an apparent callousness by the guy who just dumped her into the sea, not knowing whether she was dead or alive.

But with Smith and Ledger, they overdosed, bad example, end of story.

Same with Spears and Hilton and the rest of them.

[eridani]

97. The media shit cannot possibly be helping her family n/t

[gratuitous]

3. Disgust at the media orgy transferring itself to the victim

When you have 20 people a day ignorantly blathering on and on about a subject, any subject, you get tired of the subject. Yes, your contempt should be directed at the 20 people who keep bringing it up, but it's difficult to maintain focus on 20 moving targets. The one constant in it all is the victim.

If it's any consolation, and it probably isn't, Natalee Holloway doesn't give a fuck about that poll.

[Dhalgren]

4. I think that at least part of the problem is that each of us could give

you a list of young people who have died or gone missing and no one cares - I mean no one except the families and friends. Why? Because they aren't white, pretty girls with wealthy parents. It doesn't mean that Natalie's parents aren't suffering or that her lost is not tragic, but so are all of those dark-skinned anonymous kids who no one cares about and no ones even hears about. It is a gross, double-standard and some of the apparent callousness on this and other boards is a reflection of this larger, societal, callousness. Just my 2 cents...

[cboy4]

9. If you would have taken the time to read my post

completely, you would have noticed I addressed your point about the discrepancy.

It's wrong.

But that should not diminish anyone's sense of compassion concerning the missing/dead people that are featured.

I feel horrible about all of the "young people" who have died or gone missing. I care.

See how easy it is for me? And I'm no super hero kind of human being.

There should be room in everyone's heart to have compassion.

There's no excuse not to, unless you have a dark, rotting soul. Period.

[El Pinko]

14. Many very kind, compassionate people would strongly disagree with you...

...that they need to express compassion on a web forum for distant strangers and celebrities.


You say that you care - maybe you do, but your 'caring' plus ten cents is worth a dime - it means nothing, it helps noone.

"See how easy it is for me? And I'm no super hero kind of human being."

You can say that again, but you sure as hell are self-righteous and high-and-mighty.

[Echo In Light]

20. How about the lack of compassion for a million dead Iraqis? Afghanis?

More people likely follow the tabloid-esque stories more closely than they do ongoing mass atrocities, and are able to cite all kinds of detailed info on them, yet still believe Iraqis were behind 9/11. Why do I suspect this? Co-workers' choice of "news stories" they discuss.

[Dorian Gray]

83. Oh please....

he's RIGHT. It's really disturbing to see "I don't give a fuck about Natalie Halloway." It seems unnecessarily cruel and callous, and it makes me wonder how much compassion people have in real life sometimes. I certainly don't follow the story closely, and I agree 100% about the over exposure that the story has received, but who claims that they don't give a fuck? It's just another wealthy white girl?

She's dead. Her family has relived her death over and over again with little closure. Compassion is not a difficult thing. And I feel compassion for loads of people, including horrific stories that have happened to people in my life that the press hasn't glommed onto. Who cares? Tragedy is tragedy.

[Greyhound]

6. This is not a progressive website, it is a Democratic website, the two are almost

mutually exclusive (just look at the Presidential candidates). I think what you have perceived as callous is simply the reaction to the blatant distraction from, and refusal to report on, what matters by incessantly focusing on the irrelevant and inconsequential.

[Dhalgren]

22. Excellent point!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

44. Only nominally, I think.

Pretty much everyone who posts here actually is a progressive, and you see far, far more criticism than praise of elected Democrats here.

[Redbear]

7. Im with you 100%

I hate "tragedy journalism", but that shouldnt overcome our compassion.

[El Pinko]

8. I think you're probably misunderstanding.

People don't say they don't give a f*** about Holloway because they're callous. They don't give a f*** because it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.

There is absolutely NO reason why the Holloway story merits national news coverage - it's a local story about a girl who died. Tragic, but not deserving of more than one report on a local TV station. The same thing goes for celebs - the obsession with and living vicariously through celebrities has become almost a mental illness in this country.

Why on earth should I know who Britney Spears was married to or that she has bipolar disorder? It has NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. And yet, I'm repeatedly bombarded with these stories that are of absolutely zero relevance to anyone outside of Britney's spere of acquaintainces.

You're confusing a well-justified exasperation with our media's habit of airing celeb gossip and sensationalism instead of news, with callousness.

Personally, I suppose I would feel sorry for any of these people if I knew them, but I don't. And for the most part, I shouldn't, but the media keeps harping on them.

You talk about "showing an ounce of kindness" - do you think Britney cares whether I sympathize with her or not? Is she reading this board? Will our sadness for the loss of Anna Nicole's life fill the void in her baby's life? Of course not. Comments by strangers on some web site whether kind or cruel, won't make a bit of difference to those celebs - they'll never read them anyway.

Most of us do care about other people - a lot. Expecting us to "care" about total strangers that the TV decides are "compelling stories" is a bit unreasonable.

" I'm tired of posting about the situation."

What situation? The callousness that celebrities and dead people have to deal with from web posters? DEAD PEOPLE DON'T CARE what people say about them.

And if you're tired of it, why keep posting about it?


Progressive means you treat the people YOU deal with every day with kindness, and then vote for the people that will enact policies that will hopefully make life easier for the bulk of the people - the people you don't know. And if you're well-off enough, you give a chunk to charity.

You say you care so much about these people - have you sent condolence cards to Natalee's parents? Sent a stuffed animal to Anna Nicole's baby?
Come off your high horse already.






PS - the one exception for me was Heath Ledger. I don't know why, but his death really saddened me - perhaps because I felt his performances were so real that I kind of felt like I knew him. But really, I didn't. And I don't owe him or any other celebrity my time, my sympathy or my attention.

[cboy4]

11. Oh I see. My compassion is not valid unless I send

cards and stuffed animals?

But thank you El Pinko for demonstrating what I'm talking about.

You have a very twisted mind.

You should write an essay about your dark soul some time.

I'm fascinated with characters like you, in a sort of, you know, a I'm going to throw up kinda way.

[El Pinko]

12. So you feel that the news media held up its duty to public service by reporting about Holloway?

It used to be that trivial celeb news was confined to tabloid shows like "Entertainment Tonight".

Does it not bother you that Larry King will spend an hour talking to JonBenet's parents for the tenth time, at the same time the 9-11 commission is issuing its findings?

Why do you want to live vicariously through media accounts of strangers and celebrities?

Why do you insist that everyone else do it, and insult them when they refuse?



I assure you my mind is not twisted - it has plenty on its plate with a wife and 2 kids to care for.

[cboy4]

17. Media coverage is not the issue! I explained in my OP

that I believe this is a local story.

The TV reports should be aired in Alabama or wherever she's from.

But the fact is the national media is airing it, and that's out of our control.

It is what it is.

So the bottom line is you have a young woman who vanished and a family who doesn't even know exactly where she is. They either think she was buried somewhere, or chopped up and thrown in a dumpster or thrown in the ocean, etc.

And now there's a hidden videotape floating around that indicates she may have been dumped in the sea while unconscious.

As a person with a wife and two kids (perhaps they're all female), how can you not feel sickened by this?

You realize you're selfish (or maybe even disturbed) if you're blocking what should be a normal human emotion of sadness/sympathy because you're pissed off about what you consider unjustified coverage?

I don't live vicariously through media accounts of strangers and celebrities.

But when I hear about a tragedy, I feel bad. If I watch my local news and learn that a kid on his bike was mowed down and killed by a drunk driver, I feel sad. It doesn't matter whether I know who he is or not.

There's no excuse for you to not feel compassion for anyone suffering.

You can't defend that, can you, because it doesn't cost you a cent.

[El Pinko]

21. I can't say I don't feel a thing.

I feel a twinge of sadness for that girl's parents. I felt sad for Steve Irwin's daughter. But it's really nothing more than a momentary twinge, because how on earth do these stories merit anymore than that?

It's not a matter of blocking emotions. It's a matter of what I consider to be my priorities and what I choose to devote my attention to.

I won't call you a twisted, dark, whatever for giving all this undue attention to these TV stories, and I'd appreciate the same respect to those who feel there are other people and issues that are more deserving of out attention.




PS - I do agree with you about people who make jokes about someone who has died, etc. I should have made that clear in my first post. Getting one's jollies out of another's tragedy is sick.

[cboy4]

23. Okay, well your "PS" clears up a lot. I've mainly been

disturbed by the nasty comments from people who have to go out of their way to write things such as "who cares."

That's what really bothers me.

But just remember humans can multi-task when it comes to emotions.

I apologize for calling you or insinuating that you're twisted.

[dysfunctional press]

28. "Getting one's jollies out of another's tragedy is sick..."

so- i'm assuming that you were heartbroken for dick cheney when he shot his friend in the face?

:shrug:

[cboy4]

40. That's not the same thing.

How did you do on the SAT's QuestionAll?

I'm kinda curious.

[dysfunctional press]

87. how is it not the same thing?

el pinko said that "Getting one's jollies out of another's tragedy is sick..."(you do realize that i was responding to his post and not your's correct?)

and two people suffered tragedies on the day of the shooting- the guy who was shot, obviously- but cheney as well...after all- how would you feel if you accidentally shot your friend in the face and almost killed him?

as for my sat score(s), i never took the sat, but on the act i was in the 99th percentile in each category. in 1978, i had a composite score of 32. 29 english, 32 social science, 33 science, 35 math
i mention the year because i've heard that something about how it's scored has apparently been changed since then. i went to a small lutheran high school, where the act was pushed a lot harder than the sat, but we did take the psat once during school. i don't recall the score(s), but it was enough to make me a national merit commended student, an illinois state scholar, and to receive a letter from our then congressman.
i also came from a solidly blue-collar family that wasn't all that "sophisticated" in regard to the ins and outs of getting into a good school...or even a bad to mediocre one. my 4 year older sister was the first in at least several generations to go to college, and she did so to become a lutheran school teacher.

[El Pinko]

93. I seriously doubt Cheney had any emotional reaction to shooting his "friend".

I don't think people like Dick Cheney have "friends" in the way normal people have friends. They have acquaintances that they keep around in case they might be useful.

[El Pinko]

91. I felt kinda bad for his friend.

How was it a tragedy for dick? His pal APOLOGIZED for getting SHOT!

[Dorian Gray]

84. So if you do feel a twinge of sadness

or compassion for the girl's parents, you arguably do "give a fuck."

[El Pinko]

95. In the strictest sense, yes, but in terms of that poll, no.

Because the poll was using hyperbole to make a point about trivial, non-newsworthy stories dominating the media.

It wasn't meant to be taken literally and most of the people responding to the poll knew that.


That poll doesn't even belong in the same league as jokes about Irwin or freezing hikers.

[HuskerDU]

10. I don't know if this is the right word but, 'schadenfuede'.

It is just never a good thing to enjoy the misery of others.

Very good observation cboy.

[dajoki]

13. You are absolutely correct cboy4...

We are supposed to be better than that, we should take the higher road. I, personally, never take joy in the suffering of others.

[El Pinko]

15. Well, that's another topic.

I don't think anyone took any joy in Holloway's death - they just weren't interested in it because it has nothing to do with them.

I agree that jokes about Croc Hunter etc. are not cool.

It is disgusting to rejoice at the suffering of others.

But I don't think that means we need to "care about" celbrities' problems or every obscure death or missing girl the media decides to hype this week.

It's irrelevant to our lives, and calculated by the media to distract us from more important issues they SHOULD be covering.

[dajoki]

25. Yes, that is another topic...

I was talking about one issue, but you are right about the media blowing things out of proportion to distract us from real news.

[El Pinko]

26. But that's exactly what the Natalee Holloway poll was about.

I know it may seem a bit insensitive, but the "don't give a f***" votes were totally in that context.


I don't think ANYONE literally means "I don't give a f*** if a girl is murdered."

[dajoki]

30. I can't speak for anyone else...

so let me just say that I don't get the "I don't give a f**k" attitude.

[cboy4]

36. You seriously don't think anyone literally means they

don't give a fuck if a girl is murdered?

I do

Read the post below from the psychopath who thinks death is funny.

[El Pinko]

89. I don't know which post you mean, but...

...even if there are a few oddballs that genuinely get their jollies off of things like that, I don't think it's as big a problem as you make it out to be, and I don't think the Holloway poll was a good example since it was more about media covering trivial non-stories than an ACTUAL referendum about a specific girl. She was used as a symbol of that bad reporting, albeit in a tasteless way.

I personally voted "don't give a f***" in that poll, but the only message I was sending was that I don't want stories like the Holloway girl to dominate the news, and I think the majority of those votes meant the same thing.

If you were to make another poll on the subject with these choices:


1. I really don't care if Holloway was murdered or how her parents feel.

2. I simply don't think the Holloway story is worthy of national news covereage.


I am confident that the second choice would win hands down.


You need to understand that people use a lot of hyperbole in theiir posts and on't always literally mean what they say.



Again, if somebody thinks that a family freezing to death in the woods or a guy getting killed by a stangray is funny, well maybe they are sociopaths. Maybe they'e just immature. I dunno. I just think you're making a lot of

big assumptions about people on the basis of web forum posts and making huge leaps by calling them such horrible names.

Honestly, if you hadn't made this post, it would have never occurred to me that this was a problem. From what I've seen, this is a pretty compassionate and kind group overall.

[EFerrari]

16. Don't let the few turn you off to the many.

DU, under the noise, is a wonderful community.

[cboy4]

18. I know Beth, but I need to get it out of my system.

The fact is there are Democrats/Progressives -- even if just a few -- who are heartless.

And that's disturbing and it makes me mad.

But yes, I understand and agree with your point.

[IndianaJones]

19. truth. nt.

[americanstranger]

24. 'Natalie Holloway,' like it or not, is now a commodity, an abstract.

Her memory is an object used to fill Nancy Grace's half-hour or Larry King's hour or 20/20's 90 minutes.

Her death was tragic, of course. But it was 2 years ago. Before her, it was Chandra Levy, and the media did exactly the same thing to her until 9/11 rendered her moot as a commodity.

When I think of all the half-hours or hours on CNN or MSNBC in the past two years that could have been put to a better use - like uncovering the lies and deception of the Bush administration, like the incalculable cost in lives and dollars of the Iraq debacle, or the enormous chunk of the US treasury that has been moved into the bank accounts of friends and family of George W. Bush, or all the flim-flammery that has gone on in the housing market, it infuriates me.

All those hours, instead, have been filled with re-hash after re-hash of the Natalie Holloway case.

Alfred Hitchcock was famous for talking about a plot device in his movies he referred to as a 'MacGuffin.'

A MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is a plot device that motivates the characters or advances the story, but the details of which are of little or no importance otherwise.

Here's Hitch's explanation:

"It might be a Scottish name, taken from a story about two men in a train. One man says, 'What's that package up there in the baggage rack?' And the other answers, 'Oh that's a McGuffin.' The first one asks 'What's a McGuffin?' 'Well' the other man says, 'It's an apparatus for trapping lions in the Scottish Highlands.' The first man says, 'But there are no lions in the Scottish Highlands,' and the other one answers 'Well, then that's no McGuffin!' So you see, a McGuffin is nothing at all."

Sure, Natalie Holloway's death is sad - any human's death is - but what's the cable networks' stake in the story? Next to nil, two years down the road.

Natalie Holloway, like it or not, is a MacGuffin. Cynical? Yes, but also true.

- as

[Karenina]

33. When these non-issues re re-hashed ad infinitum in the M$M

WHERE are the citizens (to whom, in a past life the airwaves belonged) BLOCKING executives, bobbleheads in their remote trucks, surrounding the studios with torches and pitchforks DEMANDING to be informed of what's REALLY going on???

I'll zell you where. Sitting on their asses CONSUMING the shit.

[americanstranger]

39. Exactly. Distractions. Bread and Circuses.

Being used to take our collective eye off the ball.

The poster upthread had it right - the outrage should be directed at the news directors of the networks, who think one blonde American's death is somehow more news-worthy than the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis or thousands of American soldiers.

News as entertainment. Holloway's unsolved murder merits orders of magnitude more air time than an illegal war.

They do it for a reason - to focus attention on one person's death, because focusing on the deaths of thousands would reveal us to be the monsters we swear we could never become.

- as

[dysfunctional press]

27. so start your own message board, and hang out there.

very easy solution.

[cboy4]

29. You're quite the scholar aren't you? n/t

[Johonny]

31. people laughing at the Crocodile Hunter dying

Tragedy is slipping on the sidewalk and breaking your leg, Comedy is falling down an open manhole cover and dieing ~Mel Brooks

There is something comedic about death, there just is.

[cboy4]

32. Well you're insane.

Maybe they have any extra bed in Britney's room at UCLA

[americanstranger]

34. The actual quote is

"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."

The operative words, of course, being 'I' and 'you.'

- as

[Johonny]

49. yah

I couldn't remember it exact hence the ~. I think it's part of the coping process. Faced with the horrible reality that is someones death you can't help but laugh. Judging by peoples response they don't agree with me, which is odd since a lot of comedy is based on watching horrific acts happen to other people. I still think there is something comedic about death.

[americanstranger]

57. I think Mel's point had more to do with point of view.

For the record, don't find Holloway's death the least bit funny, and I'm sure you don't either.

The Holloway story is more about filling air time at this point. Does anyone believe that the media is interested in justice primarily in this case? If the OP is upset about people reacting badly to media coverage of this case, how would he feel when he heard a news executive describe the Holloway case as 'sexy?'

Because that is what it's about. The story on its face is a murder, but it leaves the viewer to draw many other conclusions. The 'she was asking for it' crowd gets to tsk-tsk over the fact that she was a teen in Aruba with no parental supervision, getting drunk with strangers. Did she have sex with her assailant? What went on before she was murdered?

It's a tabula rasa, an open-ended story that anyone can project their own little story line onto. This analysis was written two years ago, and the fact that cable news is still on the story is proof that the guy nailed it.

In a recent on-air segment featuring viewer e-mails, Katie Barnett of Great Neck, N.Y., wrote Fox News cable giant Bill O'Reilly that she had turned off his Jeff McCall.jpgprogram because of the "incessant" coverage of the Natalee Holloway story. Barnett asked O'Reilly to poll viewers to check their interest level for this story. In his usual, direct fashion, O'Reilly responded by saying, "Our ratings are huge. That's the poll."

That's the way it is in the world of television news. News executives check the ratings of every program segment. Topics that get ratings traction will be covered again and again until the ratings dip. Viewers who wonder why television news covers certain topics in "incessant" fashion should look in their collective mirrors. Ratings drive the agenda-setting decisions of news producers. There are too few Katie Barnetts in the viewing public.

http://www.collegenews.org/x4624.xml

- as

[onenote]

43. you must find the war in iraq a regular chuckle-fest

[Johonny]

52. not really

But it's not like no comedy has ever been based a horribly corrupt politician leading his country into a totally pointless war. Like say the Marx Brothers "Duck Soup". That idea has never been filmed a comedy. Kubrick refused to make Dr Strangelove has a tragedy because the concept was so tragic (all out nuclear war) it would only work in his opinion as a comedy.

[closeupready]

46. You mean, as long as it's someone I never knew personally.

right? Because I doubt, if you had ever had the misfortune to have a loved one die, you would see any humor in it.

[Johonny]

50. IDK

I think comedy is part of the coping process. At my friends dads wake his sister somehow got her hair caught in one of those wind chimes. Him and his brother totally lost it. In the middle of the wake. Comedy, sometimes you laugh at totally the wrong time. Why? Probably because the body needs it for stress relief when face with a horrible reality. Whatever it is, a lot of comedy is based on the fact.

[closeupready]

56. Ok, maybe for some people. Personally, I have never found death funny.

w/e.

[unapatriciated]

68. They were laughing at their sisters misfortune not....

at their dads death....big difference.

[cottonseed]

35. Hear Hear n/t

[Bluebear]

37. 'Your lives must be incredibly sad and miserable to not care about other people.'

You said it.

[Quantess]

38. I think the point of the poll was

Since the media spends too much time on Natalee Holloway, are you so completely tired of hearing about her, that you don't care one iota?

Anyway, that would be a more polite wording.

[Der Blaue Engel]

41. Right on, cboy4

A thousand people are going to come screaming to this thread to tell you why it's about the media attention and not this one person, but that argument is just an excuse. You can talk about media hypocrisy and sensationalism without being heartless and insensitive to actual human beings, just as you can talk about candidates without spitting in people's faces and flinging mysogyny and racism about.

There is so much about this site that disgusts me lately that I seriously don't know how much longer I can call myself a DUer. Have we been so infiltrated by trolls that they have poisoned the water or is this really the true "heart" (i.e., NONE) of DU? I don't know. I'm very discouraged and tired.

[americanstranger]

70. I'm one of the ones who blame the media.

I find no joy in Natalie Holloway's death.

I didn't laugh at Anna Nicole's death. Not Steve Irwin's, Heath Ledger's, Betty Ford's nor Tammy Faye's.

It is possible to feel compassion for someone like Holloway, yet condemn the media that contiues to exploit her for ratings (has it occurred that this is what they're really doing? Maybe not.).

No, blaming the media is not an excuse for a lack of compassion, and you're swinging a mighty wide brush when you posit that anyone who is sick of saturation coverage of a two-year old story is lacking compassion for the victim. Some of us can maintain two seperate thoughts in our heads.

- as

[Der Blaue Engel]

88. Where in my post did I say anyone who is sick of the coverage?

I was specifically referring to people who would defend saying things like "I don't give a fuck about Natalie Holloway" (or whomever) with "it's not the person, it's the media." You're right; it is possible to maintain both compassion and criticism of the media. (And I never meant to imply that the criticism of the media wasn't fully justified), I just don't see a lot of it these days.

There seems to be a lot of brush-swinging and misconstruing things as brush-swinging all around DU lately. I'll try to be more careful about who I'm talking about.

[americanstranger]

90. Thank you.

I'm glad we're clear. Because I'm one of those people who feels bad for the Holloway family's loss, and also feels the saturation coverage is largely unwarranted and horribly exploitative.

There's just a lot of binary thought going on here - 'you're either this, or you're that,' and I've grown to really resent it. But I meant nothing personal in my post directed to you.

But I do wish that people who see things in purely binary terms could finally realize that one comment on a thread here does not define the poster once and for all. We're all liberals here, we're mostly pretty smart people - why is it beyond some people's perception that sometimes a person is not one thing or the other - sometimes we're both? or neither, for that matter?

- as

[closeupready]

42. I agree with you. Narcissism is not limited to the GOP.

There are some here on DU who claim to be complaining about these stories just because they want the media to cover more worthy, BIG stories to better inform Americans. This is true in some cases, no doubt. For example, I think when Al Gore complains about it, he means it.

But in many other cases, I suspect people resent media coverage of popular personalities and their travails because it makes them feel little, by comparison. I think the petty, snarky comments, like "who cares", etc., are representative of that sort of personality. Sad and sick, IMO. And actually, I've had to put some members on ignore. Though I've now taken them off, I remember their names clearly, and carry this perception with me when I read their posts. :mad:

[IsItJustMe]

45. Get off your self righteous rant and look at things in their proper perspective. Take Natalie

Holloway poll for instance. What people are really tired of, in this situation, is 24/7 coverage for months on end, when we have over a million Iraqi civilians dead and over 4,000 American soldiers.

It's a matter of perspective, and you can't read that in no pole. Of course people here have compasion, but you have to look at it in context.


On edit: And another damn thing, the same method that you are using here to goat people into being ashamed of themselves is the same type of bull shit a rethugs are constantly using against dems saying they are not patriotic for not agreeing with this war. Convoluted reasoning at best.

I, for one, don't buy it.

[Bluebear]

47. cboy is a truly caring progressive, not 'self-righteous'.

As far as can't reading that in "no pole", there I can't help you.

[cboy4]

60. .....

:spray:

oh and

:loveya:

[Bluebear]

74. OMG I missed his edit: you're trying to GOAT PEOPLE!!!!!

[cboy4]

78. OMG! I missed that too.

Plus, he mentioned something about:

[americanstranger]

48. Precisely!

The media will force-feed us Natalie Holloway rather than a million dead Iraqis, because someone else is responsible for Natalie Holloway's death - and better yet, the person responsible isn't even an American.

We have a lot of blood on our hands in this country, but it's better we don't think about that. Hey, look, the Dutch kid killed an American!

Distraction.

- as

[onenote]

53. people want to be distracted

always have, always will.

One of the biggest murder trials of the past 50 years was the trial of Sam Sheppard, a doctor accused of murdering his wife. It was a national story. Were there other things going on at the time? Of course.

[cboy4]

69. Yea, because it's so difficult to feel compassion

about numerous people involved in numerous situations.

Can't feel bad about an innocent high school girl who was murdered and thrown into the sea like garbage, while also feeling bad about dead Iraqis and dead US soldiers, ha americanstranger?

And Natalie's death is especially unimportant because the killer isn't even "an American." :eyes:

Probably not much of a coincidence your initials almost spell out "ass."

Jesus Christ

[americanstranger]

71. Okay, son. Let's get down to it.

Why do you feel it possible to feel compassion for numerous groups of people at once, but categorically reject the notion that it's possible to feel compassion for someone while simultaneously being disgusted with media coverage that does nothing but exploit a dead teenager?

You should go back and re-read my post about her killer not being American, because you've got a slight - no, scratch that - a massive comprehension problem. My point in that post (I'll type slowly so you can keep up) was that the hours and hours dedicated to a two year old murder case could have been much better spent uncovering the depth and breadth of corruption and malice brought to us by the bush administration. It's a distraction, a shiny thing to keep people's minds off of what's really going on here. That was my point, which you missed by a country mile.

Nowhere - nowhere - did I even imply that NH's death was 'unimportant.' You said that for me, and you chose the wrong words to put into my mouth.

You don't know me. How dare you tell me what I do or do not feel?

Like I said in another post, I don't laugh at people's deaths. Not Ledger, not Irwin, not Anna Nicole not Tammy Faye, not Betty Ford. You're so intent on trying to prove your moral superiority that anyone who dares to drift a degree or two off of what you deign to be correct as regards Natalie Holloway is a compassionless monster.

As for the 'ass' comment - I'll revert to the old adage 'It takes one to know one.'

Now, go ahead, make some more erroneous assumptions. And throw in a few sweeping generalizations, too, while you're at it. You seem to be pretty good at that.

- as

[cboy4]

82. Again, as I've stated, I'm not defending the national coverage

of the Natalie case.

But the fact is it's being covered, and if you have a heart, then you feel bad about what happened.

If you have no heart, you go off and start talking about how there are more important things than the death of a high school girl who was murdered and tossed into the sea like garbage.

You see "-as," I'm able to multitask my emotions.

The Bush administration should have nothing to do with your capacity as a caring human being to feel sorry for Natalie.

So if you don't want to express sorrow over human tragedy, that's up to you.

But expect me to speak out about it.

Because it is absolutely ridiculous why you can't say, "You know, I feel sad about the Natalie case, and I feel sad about the innocent civilians in Iraq and I feel sad about the US troops..."

But you can't do that. You have to prioritize tragedy, which is sickening.

Sorry.

[americanstranger]

86. Point. By. Point.

But the fact is it's being covered, and if you have a heart, then you feel bad about what happened.

I don't have to watch it to feel bad about loss of human life. I don't watch it, for the exact same reason that I don't watch reality TV. It is lowest-common-demoninator tripe, no more useful at this point that Simon Whatsisname insulting people who think they can sing on 'American Idol.' It is, at bottom, exploitation of a dead girl, fodder for vultures like Nancy Grace. Natalee Holloway has been commoditized, and is now another tool in the box for selling insurance or soap powder. It makes her death no less tragic, but that's the state of 21st century news broadcasting. I find it to be disgusting, and I have no desire whatsoever reward poor journalism by patronizing it.

If you have no heart, you go off and start talking about how there are more important things than the death of a high school girl who was murdered and tossed into the sea like garbage.

I assume you're directing that at me, and again I'll caution you against judging people you have never met. It's an extremely closed-minded way of going through life.

You see "-as," I'm able to multitask my emotions.

As am I. It's not really that difficult, so don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

The Bush administration should have nothing to do with your capacity as a caring human being to feel sorry for Natalie.

Once again, assuming facts not in evidence. You've concluded that I don't care. I've stated numerous times on this thread that her death is a tragedy. I really don't know what more you expect me to say.

So if you don't want to express sorrow over human tragedy, that's up to you.

But expect me to speak out about it.

You'd do better to choose a target that deserves it. You have no idea what I feel (although I've already said what you've been more or less demanding people to say in at least three posts in this thread alone). You'll pardon me if I refrain from wailing, gnashing my teeth and rending my garments. I'm a little less demonstrative than that by nature.

Because it is absolutely ridiculous why you can't say, "You know, I feel sad about the Natalie case, and I feel sad about the innocent civilians in Iraq and I feel sad about the US troops..."

But you can't do that. You have to prioritize tragedy, which is sickening.

And you, my friend, have to define people in accordance with your narrow, constricted parameters. That's very 'with us or against us' behavior. And while that's not exactly sickening, it is kind of pathetic. But never fear, I feel compassion for your poor social skills.

- as

(Edited for spelling.)

[Kajsa]

51. I'm with you, cboy.

As a parent, I can only imagine what her poor family is going through.
Her mom said it IS " a parent's worst nightmare".

Something that has been overlooked is the impact on the country of Aruba.

They rely heavily on tourism for their economy as do many other countries/ regions
on this planet.

This is hurting them.

And THEN- it happens again.

Different place in the tropics, same scenario.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22692535/

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Yawn.

Look, there's a difference between compassion, and watching soap operas. Do I have compassion for human life? Sure. There's thousands of people dying every minute of every day, most of whom are poor and brown. And while I wish they didn't die, I'm not going to get more upset about some rich celebrity who spends years killing herself with booze and pill, or some moron who wanders off the road. It's not that I think they deserved it, it's that I'm not going to jump on the media exploitation band wagon.

[cboy4]

59. Yawn.

Who especially cares what you think?

Sorry about having to be honest, but I'm sure you understand.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. You, apparently.

You're complaining because I don't get all caught up in the latest media soap opera. Or ones years old, apparently.

[cboy4]

65. Well Bornaginhooligan, there's a long list of obnoxious

DUers whose insane rants I have no interest in addressing.

It just so happens I do not utilize an ignore list, which makes me insane in the eyes of some very smart and compassionate people.

Your reputation of lacking compassion is notorious to say the least, which was the point I was making.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. Huh.

Did people PM you to complain about me? Telling me they have me on ignore? Funny, they do that a lot.

They don't seem to have a very firm grasp on the concept of "ignore."

[xchrom]

58. recommend

[Wizard777]

61. We've had a lot to cry about with Bush. You can only cry for so long. The well is dry.

To quote Ozzy Osbourne No more tears. He who laughs last is just a hand in the Bush.

[BeHereNow]

62. This has been observed on DU before- how those who point at hate mongers on the right

fail to notice that they act just like them.
It is often hard to distinguish between the two.
I personally think it is neither left or right phenomena,
but rather a symptom of the collective soul
sickness of Americans as a society/culture.

And we still ask why do the hate us?

Because 95% of the population is crass, ignorant and arrogant.

My two cents.

BHN

[cigsandcoffee]

75. Let me guess...

You're a 5 percenter, right?

[leftofthedial]

63. I don't care how you feel about it

disgusting, ain't it?

[cboy4]

67. Boy, how will I sleep knowing a psychopath like you

doesn't care how I feel?

Next thing you're going to do is tell me Charles Manson doesn't care either.

And that would be devastating. :cry:

[leftofthedial]

73. people are cold

despite my lame sarcasm, I've noticed the same lack of empathy.

BTW, Charles does care. He said to tell you hi.

[cboy4]

77. lol

He's so outgoing!

[mentalsolstice]

72. I knew another teen on that trip

It could've just as easily been her. I remember discussing with her parents their concerns about sending her, but in the end they allowed her to go.

For months it was heartbreaking to drive around my town and see all of the yellow ribbons out for Natalee. And while there was a media saturation, the case was informative about senior trips abroad, and dealing with another country's laws. Sadly, her mom and step-dad have since divorced...I hope they find some sort of peace.

[MADem]

76. It's cool to be mean, doncha know--but only to "certain people"

People who own BUSINESSES often get "the business" here--without even knowing what sort of business they own, who they employ, how they contribute to their communities.

Celebrities get 'the business' because they're famous and pampered.

Teenagers who make stupid choices, and pay with their lives, get 'the business' because it's not enough to be punished with death for exercising poor judgment, you have to be mocked as well!

Of course, any asshole--even if they ARE an asshole--who has a bad word to say about our PretzelDunce gets a Crown of Glory, even if they abuse their own populations and infringe upon the liberty of millions. See, two wrongs make a right in some--not all, but some--quarters.

Funny how the bastards who FEED us this shit often don't get the blame that THEY deserve! It's always a good day to VOTE...with your REMOTE!!!

[BoneDaddy]

79. If you come from the tribe of the privileged

meaning if you are white, rich, male, famous, straight you do not deserve the same compassion as black, female, poor, gay or disenfranchised. It is pathetic.

It is no different from the right wing who only have compassion for members of their own tribe. It's mirror image exists here.

I have observed the same phenomenon as you and find it so psychologically disturbing.

[mattfromnossa]

80. thanks cboy4

It's good to know there are still compassionate folks left in the world. Compassion is the ultimate and most meaningful embodiment of emotional maturity.

[Missy Vixen]

81. It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and demonize those we've never met

Those who can't wait to kick someone like Tammy Faye Bakker, who went out of her way to make amends for her previous behavior, the Crocodile Hunter or various and sundry others (and I'll include Miss Holloway in this list; she made a poor decision, and now she's paid for it with her life -- at 17, for God's sake,) are people I don't care to know, and even more, don't want to spend any time with at all.

Thanks for the post, cboy.

Julie

[treestar]

85. There is too much of it

In the media, especially

No one is psychologically equipped to handle all of the tragedy in the world. The media allows us to find out all about it, everything. We just can't emotionally handle it all as if it were happening to us personally.

You can't either. If in a particular case, you can, you can be offended at those who can't, but you're bound to have cases that the media reports that don't strike you personally, because you can only take so much tragedy. Your post merely complains that not all are the same in which cases they will take on personally.

Personal example: when it came to the Crocodile Hunter, my young nephew was so upset that I was actually angry at the guy for the chances he chose to take. His death affected me only as it upset my nephew. I am capable of understanding the tragedy to his loved ones. It was just that for me, his death did not affect me in any other way.

Your compassion for celebrities masks your lack of compassion for real people, that is, me and my nephew, etc. You can cry over the Croc Hunter who you never knew, but have no compassion for me, etc, but that is the human condition, and I understand that.

[yurbud]

92. Gerald Ford is dead?!

[and-justice-for-all]

94. Natalie Holloway who?

I am cluess about who this is...

I do not think the media should spot light peoples deaths, I find it appalling that such a frenzy is instigated by the MSM. A brief mention would be enough..

[undergroundpanther]

96. Sometimes my anger and outrage

overrides my compassion. I do have limits on my compassion.
I feel bad for a guy on the street a vet,with PSTD who's homeless more than I care about rich people's petty dramas or celebrities going nuts or psychopaths.
Fortunate people don't get the same level of compassion from me because they have far more opportunities to get help or legal help or whatever and with less hassle and fear than anyone who's poor..sorry but I have priorities.Rich people due to their fortunate situations are low on my list for people I care about. They can hire people to care.A person on the street or who's working poor or a person whom lost their home ,or a guy with cancer ignoring it so his family can eat for instance they can't get people to give two shits about their situations it just ain't important compared to rich white girls getting tossed in the sea in aruba and endless celebrity woes. Until everyone including poor people, gay people black people,homeless people, all who are invisible are cared about too,I have to limit who I care about.Sorry..The celebrities and rich people will do fine without my compassion .Look they have legions of fans, money to blow,tons of lackeys and a media to care for them and tell us about this stuff every day .Meanwhile people are being tortured by the US,people are being tricked into debt slavery,people are dying on the street for lack of shelter, kids are getting abused,kids getting killed,running away and women raped and nobody really gives a shit about them because they are invisible. I care about the invisible ones.

[DCKit]

98. C'mon, admit it, this is really about Brittany, isn't it? n/t

[cbayer]

99. Wow, weirdest thread I have read here yet

A piece on compassion ends up being one of the least compassionate rooms in the house. My head is spinning.