A question about cars:

[smoogatz]

We've recently been blessed with a new addition to famiglia smoogatz (baby girl, healthy, noisy and hungry), and have discovered that our current vehicle—a 2003 Subaru Forester—is no longer adequate. Here's the problem: I'm about 6'2", and can opnly comfortably drive the car with the driver's seat pushed all the way back (they make these things for people who are around 5'8', apparently). With the front seat back all the way, the second child seat (we also have a young son) actually touches the back of the driver's seat when installed in its proper (for now) rear-facing position; no big deal except that you have to push the driver's seat forward in order to release the kid-seat bucket catch that allows you to lift baby and child-carrier free. A pain in the arse, once you've done it about 500 times. What we need is an AWD vehicle (we live in snow country) with plenty of space between front and rear seats, room for kids, groceries and the usual assorted crapola. The kicker: The other thing that sucks about the Forester is its crappy mileage, around 18/23. I'm ready to plunk down the extra money for a hybrid if I can find one that meets my needs. Any thoughts, DU?

[2rth2pwr]

1. Time for an SUV.

Hybrid if that's important to you.

[smoogatz]

3. Can't do it.

I'd feel like a schmuck. Plus, every time I passed a DUer on the highway, they'd give me the finger.

[madokie]

15. at least it would be coming from quasi friends

[gateley]

2. K&R -- can't help but want to keep this up there for you. Good luck!

[smoogatz]

4. Thanks!

[flamin lib]

5. Ford makes a small SUV hybrid. Have you looked at Saturn VUE? nt

[smoogatz]

7. Haven't looked closely at the VUE, but suspect it has the same problem.

The Ford Escape has basically zero backseat leg-room. We may be talking mini van here, and I say that with a certain level of disgusted resignation.

[electron_blue]

6. minivan?

Also try Honda - they have more headroom than the average vehicle, I've noticed.

[smoogatz]

8. a minivan is possible.

Toyota has an AWD version of theirs, but it's spendy.

[electron_blue]

10. Minivans cost about the same as sedans and get similar mileage, which surprised me.

Are you positive about needing AWD? I've found that front wheel drive was plenty in the various snow-country places I've lived. Of course I've not had to go through heavy, deep snow. I wait for the city to plow first. :)

[smoogatz]

12. Lots of people around here do fine w/ FWD.

But my wife's from SoCal and knows bupkis about driving in the snow. I'd feel better if her vehicle (which this would be, primarily) had AWD.

[JackintheGreen]

9. Dare I suggest the Hyundai Santa Fe?

Roomy, not as obnoxious as many SUVs, comfortable.

Unfortunately, to my knowledge they do not have a hybrid option. But its mileage is equal to the Forester, so you won't get bitten in the ass unexpectedly.

[Warpy]

11. Test drive a Scion

It's "American" made, has huge amounts of head and leg room, fair cargo space, and just might do the trick.

There was a thread yesterday about why people still drove SUVs and the Scion was mentioned many times as a workable alternative for big guys.

I spent 20+ years in New England and never had 4WD and probably would never have used it if I'd had it. Mud season in NM is a different animal, though, and if I could afford a Santa Fe neighborhood of adobe mansions at the ends of bad dirt roads, I'd need it.

(for those of you who don't know Santa Fe, only the richest people can afford to live in adobe houses at the ends of bad dirt roads)

[Tesha]

32. The nice thing about a lot of the car-version AWDs...

> I spent 20+ years in New England and never had 4WD and
> probably would never have used it if I'd had it.

The nice thing about a lot of the car-version AWDs is
that there's nothing to do to use it; it's simply
"there" all the time. The current Audi/VW version
has no controls or indicators whatsoever.

The only time we ever know that anything interesting
is happening is when the ESP ("Electronic Stability
Program") light on our Audi starts flashing. That
means the car is having to *REALLY* work to try
to compensate for our stupidity. ;)

Tesha

[Warpy]

45. I had a Vega with an automatic transmission

TOTAL pig in snow. I learned how to throw it into a controlled skid to get around corners.

[Lance_Boyle]

13. Try the Toureg TDI

If you're willing to spend extra for a hybrid gasser, why not spend the extra on a bio-capable diesel? It'll get you far better $/mile figures than the gasser hybrid SUVs.

[JackintheGreen]

22. Diesel *is* a good option!

Biodiesel is increasingly available, you can (sort of) make your own, regular is cleaner now than it used to be, mileage is fantastic, and they seem to have that whole cold-starting problem licked

[madokie]

14. I would suggest the mazda equivelent tothe ford escape hybrid

even the regular escape has better milage. our awd explorer gives us better than 20 mpg and my wife drives like there is no tomorrow, heavy heavy footed. From that I think the escape would be great. Ford builds good damn vehicles. mazda/ford

[Enthusiast]

20. I've been considering a

Pontiac "Vibe". They are available in 4WD. They are made at the California Toyota-GM factory. They get decent mileage as they are only available with the four cylinder. I seldom see used ones in the paper with the all wheel drive option, however. Anyway, I'm also too tall for these small cars-SUVs. In the Northern climes there is a market for smallish, efficient, 4WD vehicles, our auto makers should take notice.

[we can do it]

26. Think Mazda 3s Hatchback - Better Visiblity Than Vibe & Cheaper

[madokie]

40. oh but they're gm. not good

the last gm auto we had literally fell apart in the drive way. new oldsmobile 98 regency broughn. what a piece. Finally I called the bank and asked them what we should do and they said no problem if you will pay the difference we'll take it back and resell it, we did, it was a pretty good hit to I might add, and been driving ford made vehicles since. and I might add with nary a problem either. I've always been of the ford but my wife wasn't but sure is now that shes had them. When they're new most are pretty good, its some age better than others. go the the lots and compare fords of the same basic model and vintage with any of the others and you'll see what I'm talking about. seeing is believing. If you want a better car/truck than a ford you have to step up to the higher end foreign built autos

[snooper2]

16. Jeep Liberty

[smoogatz]

17. What's the mileage on that hog?

And whatever happened to the old Grand Cherokee? That was a good looking ride, IMO.

[snooper2]

18. 16city 22hwy

My friend just got one, engine isn't broke in and he drives city/hwy 60/40 getting 18.4 right now...The Liberty is a little smaller than the Cherokee ( they still make )

The good thing is if you buy a new one you get Jeeps new unlimited miles/years powertrain warranty

I think around 22-23,000 for 4x4

And it's not an SUV, it's a Jeep :)

[Tesha]

29. The bad thing is: you'll *NEED* the unlimited warranty.

> The good thing is if you buy a new one you get Jeeps
> new unlimited miles/years powertrain warranty

The bad thing is: you'll *NEED* the unlimited warranty;
the reliability of all Chrysler products stinks. The
really bad thing is that the warranty will only cover
the powertrain items and not everything else on the
vehicle that routinely falls apart.

Tesha

[madokie]

42. My dil has a liberty and I love the way it rides and feels but my son and I are already having to

work on it and its '03 I think, she bought it new. Let me put it this way the thing that we had to do was covered partly under the warranty partly not so as to still cost an arm and a leg so we done it ourselves. drive shaft seal on transfer box. get a ford and quit worrying about having to get them worked on

[LSK]

37. WRONG - Jeep Patriot

Liberty gets horrible mileage.

Patriot is a 4 cylinder with a CVT trans. Mine gets 20+ city.

[spinbaby]

19. AWD will always get bad mileage.

Just the nature of the beast.

Take a look at the Prius. Seriously. TONs of back-seat room and it's better on our snowy country roads than I would have believed. I think it must do well in snow because of all that battery weight over the drive wheels.

[Tesha]

21. Where do you figure those "drive wheels" are?

> I think it must do well in snow because of all
> that battery weight over the drive wheels.

Where do you figure those "drive wheels" are?

(FYI: The battery pack sits between the rear seat
and the trunk.)

Tesha

[spinbaby]

28. Are you sure?

When I bought it, the sales person pointed out the battery under the hood. And a Prius doesn't have a trunk.

[Tesha]

30. Absolutely certain. I've seen them stripped down to the bones.

> Are you sure?
>
> When I bought it, the sales person pointed out the battery
> under the hood. And a Prius doesn't have a trunk.

Absolutely certain. I've seen them stripped down to the bones.

The battery under the hood is the conventional "12 volt"
battery used to power the accessories in the car. The hybrid
battery chain is in a fan-cooled metal box about 12" x 36" by
about 6" deep straddling the space between the wheel wells
and sitting in the space between the rear seatback and the
trunk storage space behind the rear seat, under the hatchback.

And you're right in a sense: when people do the "plug-in"
conversions to their Priuses, after that, they really
don't have much of a trunk left; the auxiliary battery
that the converters fit occupies about 8-12" of the
depth of the cargo space and the full length and width.

Tesha

[spinbaby]

33. Son of a gun

That sweet old salesman steered me wrong.

But the Prius is still great in the snow:-)

[Tesha]

35. Front-wheel drive cars with ESP usually are ;-).

> But the Prius is still great in the snow :-)

Front-wheel drive cars with ESP ("Electronic
Stability Program") usually are ;-). I'm looking
forward to ESP becoming either a mandated feature
or a market-demanded feature (like anti-lock
brakes have become).

Tesha

[Tesha]

23. Audi makes nice AWDs.

Audi makes nice AWDs and if you're not lead-footed,
they can be pretty fuel-efficient. VW makes some
similar models and *MAY* offer a TDI diesel on
some of them.

There's no doubt that you'd find an A8 spacious
enough, and used, they're not too awfully expensive.
I don't know how much space you'd get in the smaller
Audis once you've put the front seat where you need
it to be.

Someone else mentioned the VW Toureg/Audi Q7/Porsche
Cayenne as another option but that's going pretty far
towards an "SUV" and again, I don't know how spacious
they'd be for you.

Me, I'd probably suggest a minivan; they really *DO*
make very handy family vehicles and again, if you're
not lead footed, you can get a reasonably-practical
fuel economy out of them. Some are available with AWD.

Tesha

[smoogatz]

24. We're leaning mini-van.

I'm trying to deal with the suburban dork-mobile thing.

[electron_blue]

27. Yeah... some of them look not so dorky. Good luck!

[skygazer]

25. I drive a Chevy Aveo

Can't post a photo right now because photobucket is down. It's a small car, gets close to 35 mpg on the highway and 28 to 30 in the city. I paid less than 10 grand for it.

Two summers ago, my SO who is as tall as you and broad-shouldered, and I drove 8000 miles in it. He was comfortable all the way. We had camping gear, luggage, a case of champagne for my daughter's wedding, food - a ton of stuff. Plenty of room - the rear seat folds down and the hatch is surprisingly roomy.

The back seat is roomy enough that my 6 foot father fits comfortably behind my SO with plenty of head and leg room. It's a good little car.

I'm sure you will think I'm utterly mad but I've had it for 4 years now, had no problems with it whatsoever and love the thing.

[knitter4democracy]

31. I love, love, love my Ford Freestyle.

Extra third row that folds flat for cargo space, fits the kids and their car seats great plus room for a friend in the back if needed, and Hubby (all 6'2", 250lbs of him) fits perfectly, as do I. Similar mileage to the Forester, better transmission and engine by far, more rubber on the road in a turn, and all wheel drive. It's a serious step up from my Outback. Now Hubby tries to take my car all the time when he hated smooshing himself into my Outback.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail/photos/multiPhotoPopup.jsp?paId=249813500&tracktype=usedcc&isuper=true&aff=national (This one is a lot like the one I bought last spring, but mine's all black instead.)

[this_side_up]

34. Both of us are tall. When the

time comes.......Toyota Highlander for us.

[LSK]

36. Toyota Highlander Hybrid

Also look at the Jeep Patriot.

[smoogatz]

46. I like the Highlander, but haven't had a chance to really look at them.

Near the top of the list, if we can swing the $.

[sailor65]

38. Jeep Patriot

I'm nailing 23+ overall (Lots of city driving, on long trips I easily nail 28-29) and massive space inside compared to what you have. Not to mention with Goodyear Forterra Tripletreds on it, mine is like a Snow Cat.

[Corgigal]

39. you can get what i got

I have 3 kids, pets and needs some room. Motor trends crossover of the year, Mazda Cx-9. Not a van or a SUV. You can fit in her too.
Heres a film review from youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZfB8tj6bJk

better film..this driver is 6'3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwTmx3VvH2k

[Paulie]

41. Prius will not work for you

With the seat pushed all the way back, you'll hit a rear facing seat unless you pull the front seats forward. I only have one child in the center, so I don't mind being squished a bit.

She's going to be rear facing for years or 30lbs, and 15mo and 19lbs it's going to be a while. See here: http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/StayRearFacing.aspx

If we end up with two or more, then a Minivan is on our list to replace the wife's 10 year old Honda CRV, and my Prius will just be for commuting. Just wish Toyota would import one of the two models of hybrid minivans they sell in Japan...

When shopping, take a seat with you and try it. If they don't let you, then go somewhere else. Good luck!!!

[javadu]

43. Ford Freestyle or VW Passat or Suburu Outback

None of these cars do great on the MPG criterion -- I am guessing VW gets the best green score -- especially if you can find a diesal. Maintenance on these cars is very important. If you let things slide, they will hit you with some very expensive repair bills. In my opinion, their reliability is slightly (but not much) better than average, but repairs are expensive.

Suburu Outback is a VERY high quality car. It is larger than your Forester. Change the oil regularly and keep up with the maintenance schedule and cost of ownership should be be low. Initial cost will be high. MPG not that great. If I had the coin, this would be my choice.

I also like the Ford Freestyle. MPG not great. But a great family car. Available in AWD, good size, reasonable reliability, and doesn't cost a fortune to maintain. All cars cost a fortune to buy, but this one will be less than the Suburu.

The most expensive option will likely be the Ford Escape Hybrid. But, I think it will meet most of your requirements. It is a great car.

[SoCalDem]

44. May I recommend..(10yr-100K warranty too)

My son's friend has one of these and LOVES it :)

http://www.kia.com/sorento/index.php