Why is dogfighting illegal but eating meat isn't?

[Smith_3]

I don't get it. If its about protecting animals then why are the laws on factory farming not tighter? I mean, millions of cows and chickens face a painfull life ended by a painful death every day. Why is the outrage not the same?

[ORDagnabbit]

1. mostly cause were cut off from where our food comes from...

[Warpy]

2. I guess people value the end along with the means

The only end to dogfighting is money made by the winner from bets being placed on the fight.

However, as cruelly as those dogs are treated and as grisly their end, it's probably not as bad as a factory farmed chicken that has its beak burned off shortly after hatching to prevent pecking and ruining the meat of other chickens as they're stressed by overcrowding.

I don't support dogfighting. I don't support factory farming. What little flesh food I eat is mostly fish, a little free range chicken or grass fed beef once or twice a year.

I don't know how anybody out west who has ever driven past a feed lot in August can possibly stomach factory grown beef. I don't know how anybody in the southeast or midwest who has been downwind of a factory hog farm can possibly eat commercially grown pork.

Eeeeyuck.

[superduperfarleft]

3. A: Because dogfighting is a cuddlytarian issue, eating meat isn't.

Being a cuddlytarian doesn't require one to change one's lifestyle to be consistent in their ethics, much like being opposed to kicking old ladies.

But I agree, dogfighting and eating meat are the exact same as far as moral outrages go.

[fedupconservative]

13. Geez

I guess both our sides have our extremists.

[superduperfarleft]

14. To a conservative, critical thought can be seen as extremist. n/t

[fedupconservative]

17. lol. Fair enough

[Lance_Boyle]

107. Critical thought is one thing,

but proclaiming moral equivalence between dogfighting and eating meat is quite another.

[superduperfarleft]

109. Can you explain how they are different, or are they different just because you say they are?

Seriously, pretend I'm a six-year-old child. Explain to me how condemning a dog to death because you like watching them fight is different than condemning a cow to death because you like the way they taste.

[pink-o]

181. It's not the ***eating**** of meat...

I've been a vegetarian longer than many DU'ers have been alive---33 years and counting. But I'm well aware that humans are omnivores. A veggie diet is a boutique diet, for westerners like me who can afford to buy tofu, organic dairy products and all the fresh fruit she can eat.

Bottom line: humans eat meat, humans have big brains because they evolved eating massive doses of protein. But it's the cruelty, the exploitation and suffering that humans impose on animals that's so heinous. That's a modern, industrial factor, nothing to do with a human's natural diet--and one can still eat meat while not supporting the factory farms. There are organic, kosher and halal butchers--while killing for food might offend my sensibilities, those choices would work for someone who still eats meat but despises the commercial preparation.

It is not up to me nor any other vegetarian to lecture people on the environmental or compassion aspects of meat-eating. The knowledge is out there, it's up to the individual how s/he acquires it. But I don't believe for a minute one can compare eating meat--which most people equate with survival--to exploiting and hurting animals for "sport".

[Quantess]

18. Have you seen Fast Food Nation?

I have a friend (in his mid-30s, he's not an impressionable teen or anything), who was so grossed out by the documentary, that he is now practically vegetarian, and has not eaten fast food since.

You may want to at least find out the background of what you are eating, if only for your own sake.

[DS1]

205. It's a movie?

I've only read the book.

[fenriswolf]

4. because one is malicious behavior and using their

destruction for our amusment. the killing done at factory farms is supposed to be as quick as possible and its done for food.

[wolfgangmo]

69. It ain't the killing ...

... it's the living conditions and they way they "care"for the animals that is wrong.



Tight conditions requiring the wide-scale use of antibiotics, largely believed to be the breading ground for the super-viruses that are jumping into our population and hospitals. Feeding the animals their own shit and other animals dead and diseased bodies leading to unhealthy meat. The additions of dye to food so the flesh of the animals won't look grey, the color that meat has when it is anemic.



Need I go on? A good source of vetted information is Diet for a New America by John Robbins.

[HereSince1628]

5. Such flame bait....need a match? Or do you expect spontaneous combustion?

[superduperfarleft]

7. And I think it's a valid point. n/t

[HereSince1628]

10. Fine, you proclaim thought

and there should be more of that on this board

[penguin7]

93. If people actually had to slaughter the meat they eat,

there would be a whole lot more respect for animals.

Instead one goes to McDonalds orders a burger, and never sees the cow slaughtered. I would guess that most of the people on this board have never once seen their animal food slaughtered.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

125. There would be more respect and less waste

But not more vegetarians:

Nomadic people all over the world slaughter their own meat and have a higher percentage of meat eaters than our supermarket society..

[johnlal]

6. Because human beings are omnivores

...and some of us choose to eat meat. While it may be objectionable to some, it is in our animal nature to eat meat. And it's yummy.

[superduperfarleft]

8. Meat is yummy, and dogfighting is fun to watch.

So what's the problem?

[LostinVA]

You think dogfighting is fun to watch?

You are a sick fucker.

[superduperfarleft]

44. Well, you and many others seem to think cognitive dissonance is fun.

No, I don't enjoy dogfighting. My point was that saying that it is morally acceptable to kill animals for food because they taste is good is as bad as saying it is morally acceptable to fight dogs because it's fun to watch.

I'll be waiting with baited breath for your apology for calling me a "sick fucker." :eyes:

[TommyO]

45. One provides nourishment, the other provides violent, brutal entertainment

I can see the difference between the two.

[superduperfarleft]

49. Nourishment is available from other sources.

The "meat is yummy" people don't care, because they think meat tastes good.

Fun is available from other sources, but the "dogfighting is fun to watch" people don't care, because they enjoy it.

If I tried to make it any simpler, I'd have to resort to drawing pictures.

[TommyO]

55. How somebody derives their nourishment is up to them.

PERIOD!

[superduperfarleft]

56. Irrelevant to the point I was making!

PERIOD!1

[wolfgangmo]

71. What some one eats is up to them? Period?

Tell that to Jeffrey Dalmer.



MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Good.

[superduperfarleft]

72. Good call. Heh.

:thumbsup:

[TommyO]

75. No, it was an idiotic response, far from a good call

If you can't tell the difference between dog fighting, omnivorous humans and a serial killer, there's not much hope for you.

[superduperfarleft]

77. An idiot is one who can't defend their position.

Pot meet kettle.

And if your response is representative of the intelligence of the debate on this site, well, you get where I'm going with this.

People like you remind me of my grandmother who told me that evolution wasn't true because "the bible said so and that's all you need to know."

[superduperfarleft]

78. And anyway, it's your own fault.

You didn't qualify what you said, you just said, "What someone eats is their choice."

Don't blame the other poster for taking what you said to its logical conclusion.

[TommyO]

85. And I stand by that.

What I eat is my choice, what you eat is your choice.

I'm not attempting to denigrate you for your choices, but you are doing exactly that for other people's choices, including mine.

[superduperfarleft]

88. If you think "It is because I say it is" is an argument, I'm not sure what we have to talk about.

It's like arguing with a fundie christian, except in this case, it's a fundie carnivore.

[Quantess]

54. A sarcasm smilie

or some other indication of irony would have been helpful.

[LostinVA]

58. Use a sarcasm smiley next time

[superduperfarleft]

66. Sorry, I don't do lowest common denominator. n/t

[LostinVA]

73. That's it! Kennel up!!!

[I Have A Dream]

62. Your point was very clear. Your argument was sound.

:thumbsup:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

126. Our natural diet is different than

The unnatural practice of teaching other animals to kill their own kind for entertainment..

[flvegan]

129. You wouldn't know "natural diet" if it bit you in the ass.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

132. Right go have some more processed soy

Imported and bread to be a certain way from aisa to the us... It will help with that sense of moral superiority you're oh so good at..

Seriously I know I dont have the perfect diet but I do know the natural diet includes meat as witnessed by every society in history..

[flvegan]

133. Go eat a raw factory farmed steak.

Go on...

Apologist for cruelty. That's you.

Every society you care to witness.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

135. Please

We will play a game well start as far back as recorded history goes.


Find a society which was vegan for any reason other than religious..

[flvegan]

136. Heard of evolution?

Any reason other than religious?

Find a society that wasn't vegan based on a lack of selfishness.

Good fucking luck.

Justify it all you want. Sleep well.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

139. "Find a society that wasn't vegan based on a lack of selfishness."

The Souix..

Were subsistence hunter gatherers, hardly greedy.. Of course they could have dont the moral thing and starved to death right?

[flvegan]

142. Oooh, let's go back to the dinosaurs then.

What else you got of recent memory?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

144. The Souix still exist knucklehead

So the 1860's and 1870's was 'The time of the Dinosaurs' thats an insult to native Americans get bent...

[flvegan]

146. Is that it?

"I can prove something completely outside the scope of the discussion by invoking X group."

You get bent.

I'm sure YOUR little lifestyle differs greatly from the Native Americans that you wish to invoke then hide behind. Yes?

Convenient, I'm sure. Use them, then lose them. Nice.

See, we can both play this.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

149. Australian Abborigionals, My Irish Ancestors, ....

...

My life sytle does differ greatly but my biology does not fact is *every* human society started out eating meat its a natual part of our diet.

Your assumption that its wrong is based on the thought that killing for food is cruel, most of nature disagrees with you..

At what point did something not immoral to the Souix become Immoral to me?

[flvegan]

153. Killing without need is cruel.

That's it, that's all.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

154. I need to eat meat

It is the best source of B12 out there the most dense source of complex amino acids available and the most protein per calorie available to the person..

[flvegan]

156. Again, your nutritional training is lax.

Sell it to yourself all you want...apologist.

Oh, hey...you wouldn't know bioavailability if it bit you in the ass, either.

Your "need" is a shitbrick pathetic want. For fuck sake, at least own up to it.

[Iktomiwicasa]

214. I am fullblood Lakota

"Sioux" to those who still insist. I eat dog meat a few times a year. Quite good, actually. You should try some, it might help your attitude.

[Tektonik]

172. Jesus the word is SIOUX

SIOUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

197. I apologize

Thank you for the correction..

[King Coal]

188. "Baited Breath"? Strange choice of words. LOL!

[susanna]

157. For dog lovers, dogfighting is NOT fun to watch.

That's a total red herring and doesn't even deserve my typing a response.

And yes, I'm a meat eater. Would I watch a dogfight? Hell no. And I live in an inner-city neighborhood where pits are bred for JUST THAT. I rescue them if I can, and you're pathetic for even making that comparison. So says me.

[superduperfarleft]

165. Ahem...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2843691&mesg_id=2847451

Basing an ethical argument on "I feel..." not only would drive your college professor up the wall insane, it also leads people to decide abortion is wrong and slavery is okay "BECAUSE TEH BIBLE SAYS SO." For all the fundie carnivores who've called me a fundie vegan, I've never met one that can reasonably explain why they favor some animals over others, or can at least admit that it's based on completely arbitrary standards. For your sake, I hope you never end up in front of a philosophy class with that kind of argument.

[susanna]

207. That's freaking rich.

You're the one who posts "meat is yummy and dogfighting is fun to watch."

Yeah. Why don't you take that argument on up to the front of a philosophy class, sparky? See where it gets ya. Be sure to post back and let me know!

[superduperfarleft]

208. Score one more for the obtuse.

I was being sarcastic to point out the inconsistency between those who decry the cruelties of dogfighting but see nothing wrong with condemnding animals to death for their flesh simply because they taste good.

Or are you another one that needs pictures? Here ya go... :sarcasm:

Sincerely,
Sparky

[susanna]

215. Heh. Sparky, you're funny.

I like you enough to give you a valentine. That said, your argument(s) hold no water. The way you phrased your original post (without the benefit of a sarcasm smiley) is exactly what made people bite. But you knew that, didn't you?

[Lex Talionis]

9. If you ever see a dog

fight you wouldn't have to ask the question. has a cow ever met you at the door wagging its tail? A chicken ever curl up in your lap when you don't feel well? I try to eat only what I kill or what is free range. I do agree with you on the issue of large meat farms being disgusting

[Smith_3]

84. Actually, my dad had pet chickens.

He said they were the coolest pets he ever had. They waited at the door and followed him around. And they would lower their head to be petted. He was very upset when the chickenhawks got them :(

[Quantess]

11. Good point. It's about cruelty.

I eat meat, but I like to think I am conscientious about it. I don't want to support meat factory farming, especially if they have a reputation of being inhumane. The worst ones I know of are KFC, Taco Bell, and Tyson. Factory pigs are known to have a very sad existence.

If people could see how many of these animals lived and died (not to mention the disgusting slaughterhouse), more people would think twice about eating it. I am confident that more people would spend a little more money for meat that was raised and killed humanely, and also was not loaded with antibiotics, hormones, etc.

Eating animals does not have to mean cruelty, in my opinion. But there is currently an overwhelming disregard for animals and for the consumers. The almighty dollar is the reason. People need to learn about what they are eating.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

39. From an Omnivore

Don't kid yourself into thinking that just because it isn't fast food, it's cruelty free. If you could see the feed lots in the Midwest (Cowschwitzes, if you will), you'd know that every single piece of beef in your grocery meat case, specifically labelled, incredibly expensive products notwithstanding, is the product of extremely cruel and/or filthy processes. That's why we have so much e-coli troubles anymore. Feedlot cattle stand up to their knees in their own feces while eating grain for which their stomachs aren't "designed." That requires them to be fired up with antibiotics to keep them "healthy" till they're killed, which, in turn, contributes to microorganisms' overall rapid development of resistance to antibiotics.

Study up on the Smithfield Meats kill plant in Tarheel, NC. They slaughter 32,000 hogs per day there on an assembly line where the workers themselves are treated little better than the animals they're slaughtering. There is cruelty a-plenty in Meatworld.


Get On The H.O.R.N.!
America's Liberal Voice
www.headonradionetwork.com
iTunes Radio (Talk/Spoken Word)

[Quantess]

43. ".. where the workers themselves are treated little better than the animals they're slaughtering.."

That is insight why the workers treat the animals roughly at best, meanly and cruelly at worst.

Good post.

[flvegan]

63. This is a great post.

Well said, and the additional point of the workers at the "assembly line" is dead on.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

95. I don't have the link handy, but . . .

if you look up "cook-only" meat, you'll find that millions of American schoolchildren eat meat that has been previously contaminated with E-coli 157H7 and then set aside to be cooked.

The animals this meat comes from are truly pathetic, including so-called "downer" cattle and have, by definition, been exposed to animal feces during the kill process.

Even congresspeople don't know about this FDA abomination, this little corner of the de-regulated, free-market miracle.

The whole process is symptomatic of our corporatized, collectivized, centralized, Sovietized corporate culture. A local butcher, for instance, who lives in a town and provides it with its meat, by definition MUST be impeccably clean. If he sickens his town, he's out of business. He is, therefore, proactively sanitary.

On the other hand, with these massive kill factories and feedlots, the most accountability possible will only occur after someone has been sickened or killed by the ab initio filth-laden processes.

Issues like this point out the glaring hypocrisy of the Grand Ol' Perverts' prattlings about supporting the "small business owner." Hooey. If they practiced what they preached, we'd still have a culture that valued small town bakers and green-grocers and butchers.

[Wcross]

12. Cows are put down as humanely as possible.

I also question that they have a painful life. Dogs die in dog fights by being torn apart & bleeding to death slowly. They are also mistreated to make them meaner.
People fight dogs for entertainment while they slaughter cows for sustenance.

[Quantess]

21. Some are, some aren't

https://community.hsus.org/campaign/CA_2008_investigation?qp_source=gaba89

[navarth]

111. YES. That video was enough for me.

I saw it last month.

Since then I just can't eat any meat. The MONSTROSITY of this makes my blood boil.

I guess maybe I'm a 'cuddlytarian'.

[Quantess]

115. I wasn't able to finish watching the whole thing.

What's worse, that meat was destined for public school cafeterias. Little kids were going to be the consumers of those "downer" cows, which could very likely have mad cow disease (BSE).

[Warren Stupidity]

28. 'put down'

Hey if that is what makes you feel good about it, ok. They are slaughtered and there is nothing humane about it.

[dysfunctional press]

29. they wouldn't even be alive in the first place if not for being bred for slaughter.

humans are omnivores, and A LOT of us will continue to enjoy meat, as we always have.

but here in the u.s., most of us don't eat dogs.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. I'm fine with that.

But I cringe when I see 'put down' as if it were something other than slaughtering.

[Wcross]

37. They don't feel a thing during the slaughtering process.

They are rendered unconscious before the slaughter. I suppose we could let them die of old age before we slaughtered them but then the meat would be tough.

[Quantess]

40. Apparently you haven't looked at my post #21 yet

[superduperfarleft]

50. And yet people say vegans are naive. n/t

[Wcross]

67. Being a meat eater, I LIKE it that way. n/t

[superduperfarleft]

68. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

And our soldiers never kill civilians either. And we invaded Iraq to promote democracy. Yeah, that's the ticket!

[Wcross]

81. So now slaughtering animals raised for food is akin to war crimes?

You have won the "Most ridiculous post of the evening award"! Congratulations!

[superduperfarleft]

83. Congratulations on being the most obtuse poster I've talked to tonight.

And that's saying a lot.

[Wcross]

137. You made such an inane comment I felt it would be best to respond at the same level.

Have you ever wondered if soy bean plants feel pain? They are living things, when you kill them for food, do they feel pain? Are you sure?

Cows feel no pain while being slaughtered if the bolt gun is working right. Nothing a little training can't fix. Deal with it scooter, people eat meat & we raise cattle to satisfy that desire.

Yummy!

[flvegan]

141. Sorry dude, but that was a dumb fucking post.

Your first statement is Center for Consumer Freedom right wing bullshit, lacking sound science (or anything else).

Your second statement is idiotic. "satisfy that desire" is the ugliest statement I've ever read here. Fuck the animals, cruelty is fine, so long as desire is satisfied.

Sound familiar? Might need a wide stance to get it...

[Wcross]

158. People eat beef flvegan.

Until you can remove it from the diet of Americans the "cruelty" of slaughter will continue. It is not in the processors best interest to have a conscious animal on the line. Would they want to string up a bull that's going to kick? Do you consider the general slaughter of these animals as the cruel thing or specific practices?
How about I change "satisfy that desire" to "meet the demand"? Either way it is the same thing, people want to eat meat.

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. I have never heard of the "Center for Consumer Freedom right wing bullshit". Are you saying my question as to whether plants feel pain is "right wing"? It is a valid question right or left.

[flvegan]

161. Let me phrase it this way...

Why do people eat beef?

Your question as to if plants feel pain is not a valid question. It's a yabbut. As in, "yabbut, plants might feel pain as well, so it's okay." It's been played out by a multitude of RW sources, but I should not have lumped you into that. For that I apologize.

I know you aren't buying into RW propaganda. I should look more often at to whom I'm responding sometimes.

Also, for the record, I don't want to "remove" meat from the diet of Americans. I'm not about taking away the right to eat meat or anything else. I'd rather folks made better decisions.

[Dorian Gray]

175. There is nothing right wing about eating meat....

and sometimes people get frustrated with the level of intolerance for non-vegetarians here. I don't criticize your choices, nor should you criticize me. And I'm somebody who has curbed my meat consumption by a LOT in the past year. (Though I still eat loads of fish.) I have red meat about twice a year and poultry about twice a month. I've replaced it with seafood and tofu/tempeh. I like those foods. I feel better for cutting my meat consumption way down. Yet, I don't believe that meat eaters are evel. Educating people about eating better and incorporating other foods into their diet is a good thing, but accusing people of being right wing for supporting their non-vegetarian diet is not fair.

[superduperfarleft]

166. So we've gone from obtuse to outright stupid.

"Deal with it scooter, people eat meat & we raise cattle to satisfy that desire."

And people raise dogs, "scooter," because they enjoy watching them fight. Deal with it.

I guess I could post a picture of tofu or some other stereotypical vegan food at this point, but that would just be obnoxious. Incredibly obnoxious. And it would also indicate I've lost the argument and have resorted to being a wanker.

[Marrah_G]

180. Posting your tofu picture is fine- why would anyone care what you eat?

I don't care what you eat. Your choices are your choices and you are welcome to them. Your attitude towards anyone who eats meat is disturbing.

If you came to my house for dinner I would cook vegetarian, but that is as far as I am willing to go. In the real world I would walk away from anyone behaving as some have here. My choices are my choices.

[superduperfarleft]

183. I appreciate the respect you show to your guests, and I'm sure your friends do as well.

Of course eating meat is a "choice," much like driving a Hummer or shopping at Wal-Mart is a "choice." Despite the wording of the OP, I would never propose to make eating meat, driving a hummer, or shopping at Wal-Mart illegal. But like DUers will often point out why those choices are harmful when it comes to driving a Hummer or shopping at Wal-Mart, it seems completely taboo to point out that the choices we make when it comes to food can have negative effects on those around us as well.

All I'm trying to do is explain why I find it incredibly illogical to put some animals under a legal veil of protection while excluding others on completely arbitrary standards. I'm not sure why that makes my attitude towards those who eat meat (and I'm not trying to personally attack anyone) disturbing to you.

(And while a picture of meat doesn't bother me in the least, the intent in posting it is clear.)

[Marrah_G]

190. If you honestly can't see the difference between a cow killed for food and two dogs ....

.....ripping eat other up for the entertainment of others and them left to die slow horrible deaths, then I don't really have anything left to say to you.

I think you DO understand the difference. I think you are trying to make a point by using two ideas that are very different and your argument is did not work.

I suggest perhaps you focus more on bringing attention to bad slaughterhouse or farming practices rather then equating meat eaters with murderers, war mongers and torturers. If you did that then perhaps a few more people would be educated instead of turning a deaf ear. Perhaps that would actually sway more people in your direction.

Straw men arguments do not change minds, they just incite more division.

I hope you understand the points I am making and change your tactics here.

[superduperfarleft]

196. No, I don't understand the difference.

I understand that our culture places a higher value on certain animals than others, and I understand that our culture respects certain uses of animals more than others, but I'd argue that these differences are purely cultural and therefore mostly arbitrary.

It's not the nature of the use that I have a problem with, but the use itself.

[Marrah_G]

199. Since you say you honestly don't get it, there isn't anything left to say really.

I'm done.

[truedelphi]

106. I think it is alwys fun to point fingers at other people

Most humans leave an unfortunate foot print of destruction on the earth.

Except for Ghandi, who did nothing that he had not participated in himself, including weaving the clothes he wore, most people are leaving an abominable footprint on the earth.

I eat meat, but I don't drink wine.

I know many vegans who drink wine - they don't realize that this mono-crop of grapes deprives the birds of anywhere to roost or find sustenance, deprives the badgers, fox, deer, wild rabbits and other wild critters critical habitat. Each year, more timber land in California is cut down, and more deer end up dead on the highway as a result.

Even the organic wine producers are not really organic. They may not spray pesticides - but they aren't offering any hedgerows or other places for the wildlife.

But those who don't eat meat consider themselve to somehow be above any and all sinfulness.

[Warren Stupidity]

51. Oh bullshit.

[Wcross]

145. If the boltgun is working right they don't.

They are rendered unconscious & their throat is slit. A simple finger to the eye can determine consciousness. Why would the processors want a conscious animal during processing? Its in their best interests to make sure the animal is out before it hits the line.

[flvegan]

148. How do you know?

You trust the USDA and APHIS that much? Ever been there, done that?

I don't, and I haven't.

I can't trust a govt entity that doesn't have chickens/turkeys (poultry) as part of the Animal Welfare Act.

Why not?

[Wcross]

160. I trust the workers at the plant.

How long would a bolt gun operator last in his job if the guys stringing the cow up had to deal with a conscious animal?

[flvegan]

162. Dunno. How many cows might complain?

Check out Fast Food Nation.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

198. Very true

Modern cattle, docile and stupid, are wildly different from their origin species that ran wild across the savannah. Even the Spanish bullfighting afficionados get disgusted with the perceived lower ferocity of fighting bulls.

We have genetically selected for slow, docile and dumb. They would be hard-pressed to live in the wild, especially since some enterprising future hunter would find such easy game irresistably tempting in the ongoing struggle to feed the tribe. See, by comparison, the demise of the wooly mammoth. Comparatively speaking, that didn't take very long.

On the other hand, the nature of the complaint on this thread appears to be that of conditions and circumstances of production.

I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of eating "downer" cattle, or of my children doing so at school. The families who still grieve for loved ones killed by e-coli tainted meat go on, day, to day, as living reminders of how vile and filthy our "modern" factory farms are. They are a far cry from the local people who, by dint of living in and constantly interacting with a community, are compelled to be hygenic and, if not sterile, at least sanitary in their practices. One simply may not make the argument with any degree of intellectual honesty that factory farming is either hygenic or sanitary; at least not in its current manifestation.

Watch the video at www.hsus.org

[Fresh_Start]

15. Do they eat the dogs after they fight?

or are they enjoying killing/maiming for the pure sport of it?

[superduperfarleft]

22. Would it be okay if they did eat the dogs?

[Fresh_Start]

23. it would be slightly better then just killing them for the sport

not that I would ever partake of either the sport or the eating of the dogs

[superduperfarleft]

24. Hey, at least you're consistent.

That's better than most meat-eaters.

[Fresh_Start]

26. I've been a vegetarian and a meat eater

15 years as a vegetarian in my twenties and early thirties
I even gave up leather goods
I grew up in a hunting for meat family

If you kill, you kill humanly and only what you need.
No one needs to see dogs maimed.

[dysfunctional press]

70. the meat on fighting dogs would be pretty tough...probably only good for stewing.

a flabby young st. bernard, tho...that's probably some good eatin'.

if dog is your thing, that is.

it ain't mine.

[dragon82a]

36. Now dog is pretty tasty, EOM

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

48. Another C-Ration gourmet?

:rofl:

[dragon82a]

52. how did you guess?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

74. I liked the beans and franks,

but some of the other stuff might have been dog, or worse.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

16. You want the real answer?

Because, while raising animals for meat and raising animals for bloodsport are both deeply rooted in the human tradition, the Meat Industry has a very well-funded lobby and the Cockfighting/Bearbaiting/Dogfighting Industry DOESN'T.

[Smith_3]

20. Personally, I think its class warfare.

Dogfighting is illegal because "hoodlums" do it. If it was done only in dormitories and private clubs, it probably wouldn't be soo illegal.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

42. Falconry

is still "the sport of kings." You might recall that Dear Leader had his picture taken with a hunting hawk recently in Saudi Arabia.

I didn't hear anyone screaming about that, although I must confess I don't spend any time at the PETA site.

[Iris]

98. yeah, sure. Cause those dorm kids are going to dispose of the bodies in a sanitary way.

Yea. And that would never be a problem to anyone. They'd just say "boys will be boys." Sure.



For me, dog fighting is a problem because if some of those dogs get out, they will not know the difference between fighting/attacking in a ring and fighting/attacking my dog as I walk him or my neighbors kid as he plays in his sandbox.

[DUlover2909]

19. I think people should only eat what they kill.

So if you go to a restaurant and order a dog sandwich then you would have to choose a dog from the kennel and kill it yourself and then the restaurant would cook it for you and you could take home the rest of the carcass in a doggie bag. =P

[dysfunctional press]

30. so did jeffrey dahmer.

nt

[rpannier]

124. OMFG!!! That's funny

In a sick and twisted way --

You get a heart.

Not a real one mind you -- just a DU one

[Danger Mouse]

25. I agree that factory farms need to be significantly cracked down on, even shut down.

The title of your OP, however, i do not agree with.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

127. Thats something the self rigthous vegans do

They set u0 the straw man of factory farming to condemn all meat eating..

[superduperfarleft]

169. So I guess that means I'm not a self-righteous vegan

since my concern for animals and the eating of their flesh has nothing to do with factory farming.

[MadHound]

223. I'm a farmer, living out in the country, eat meat, and I loathe factory farming

And so should you is you've got any sense at all. Factory farming destroys the environment due to the insane amount of animal waste that is generated, and then getting into our water system contributing to dead zones and such.

Not to mention the fact that factory farming contribute to the massive amount of chemicals, hormones and drugs that our now in our meat supply. Many of these contribute to higher cancer rates, lower ages of the onset of puberty, drug resistant diseases and other nasty byproducts. Also the crowded conditions contribute to the rise of diseased meat. Factory farms are also a menace to all around them, lowering property values, contributing to asthma and other respiratory diseases. Factory farms are also contributing to the destruction of small farmers, leading us down the path to a mono food production model, which is never good. Oh, and compared to beef and pork raised normally, much less organic, factory farmed meat tastes like crap.

The factory farm problem isn't a strawman, and if you eat meat, you should be especially concerned.

[Warren Stupidity]

27. I don't eat dogs and I refuse to watch cow fights.

Plus I'm a veggie anyhow. I was actually served dog once.

[enki23]

31. self delete

[enki23]

32. because most people aren't *that* inept at making moral judgements

.

[datasuspect]

76. best. answer. in. this. thread.

[smoogatz]

34. Dogfighting is inherently cruel.

Eating meat is inherently tasty.

[dragon82a]

35. I like meat,

and also if the animal that provided it died a horrible and painful death, it makes it that much more tastier.

I really cant stand PETA people -they are to stringy.

[shireen]

46. that's a sickening comment

Are you just saying that to spite PETA, or are you so twisted that you mean what you're saying? Either way, that's a very sad pathetic statement about your state of mind.

i eat meat too, but respect the animals that are the source of that meat and only buy meat/poultry/dairy from sellers that treat their animals humanely.

[dragon82a]

53. my state of mind is feverish right now

have phuemonia, and everything seems funny

[LanternWaste]

89. Everyone seems to advertise their sense of both class and honor.

Everyone seems to advertise their sense of both class and honor in one way or another.

You have chosen to do so in a form which his neither unique nor clever-- yet it still aptly advertises both your sense of class and your sense of honor nonetheless.

[Orsino]

38. Killing for food is often necessary to survive. Torturing animals to death is pure sickness. n/t

[shireen]

41. good concise answer. thanks. nt

[bperci108]

47. You see some sort of "moral equivalency" here"?

:wtf:

Even though the PETA folks and I share some agreements, many, many of them (in my personal experience, anyway) exhibit the same Foaming True Believer behavior of fundie-mentalist xtians and other such moralizing, I'm-a-better-human-being-than-you-because-I-follow-(insert cause here).

Factory farms are indeed hideous, but the anti-meat militancy is ridiculous. I can respect the choice of vegetarians and vegans but I expect the same respect in return.

There ARE ways to be an "ethical" omnivore, regardless of what the extremists proclaim. Read Gene Logsdon's books and see what he describes as a "pastoral economy".

Okay Veggies, pile on.... :hide:

[flvegan]

57. I'm a vegan AR whacko, and I don't think eating meat should be illegal.

(AR = Animal Rights in case ya didn't know)

What should be illegal is confinement of any form of intensity. Also, the production line form of slaughter should be illegal. Feedlots should be illegal. Manure lagoons should be illegal.

Eating meat is a right, and I'm not about taking away rights. I'd rather folks didn't do it, sure. Eating meat is kind of like driving a Hummer H2. It's about want, not need. It's a selfish act, and we all have them. Granted, there are a number of folks that have no idea about responsible nutrition, nor the impact of eating meat, nor the punishment the animals endure. Just as there are folks that might drive an H2 and have no clue about oil, global warming or a "carbon footprint".

There are certain delicacies in the meat aisle that I'd like to see outlawed for different reasons, but I couldn't support a general ban on meat. I'd like to see folks make ethical choices for their diets on their own.

BTW, if you want to see the type of initiative we need across the board in this country, check out the California Humane initiative, here:

http://www.humanecalifornia.org/

I'll probably get flamed by both sides of the fence for this. Oh, well.

[Marrah_G]

182. I liked your post

I was pretty irritated with you upthread, to be honest, because it seemed as if you were condemning all meat eaters. I'm glad you posted a more detailed version of your stance.

I personally would like to see the laws changed, not to outlaw meat, but to ensure it was being produced in a humane and safe manner. I also agree that as a country we eat far too much meat.

[BoneDaddy]

211. I highly disagree

eating meat can be very nutritional and I think some people need to eat meat based upon their genetic makeup. Some of the sickest people I know are vegetarians and vegans. They are weak, always sick and come from such a place of moral superiority and anger that it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[Silent3]

59. I see no reason to feel guilty about living higher up in the food chain

I'd have no problems with regulations on factory farming techniques to improve the lives of animals between birth and slaughter. But factory farming and meat-eating are not synonymous. Humans eating meat is no more or less moral than wolves or sharks eating meat, or than other omnivores like bears and crows eating meat.

What I'd ultimately like to see someday is raising meat without the animals -- meat produced artificially via tissue culturing. "Carniculture" you might call it. In the mean time, I'd be happy with lower meat consumption for the environmental benefits of that, and better treatment of farm animals.

None of this makes cruelty to fairly intelligent animals for nothing but "sport" acceptable, nor comparable to the routine, natural behavior of eating meat.

[Pharlo]

60. There is also the pet factor.

A LOT of people have pet dogs. When they see dogs being raised and mistreated to fight, they see the family pet in that circumstance. And, when it's on the news, the kids can see it. There are a lot of people out there who view their pets as members of their families. And, it really bothers them to see dogs being treated in this fashion. So, they call their congresspersons. A large political electorate gets upset about something like this and there is no major lobbying effort on its behalf - it becomes illegal.

Whereas farm animals are raised, for the most part, specifically for slaughter. Most people don't have pet cows, pigs, chickens. So, it's not as personal. They go to the store, they get their prepackaged meat. They don't want to know how it got there and they don't ask. The farmers who raise the animals certainly aren't going to object on behalf of the animals because that is their livelihood. In fact, those farmers support the large lobbying firms to keep the slaughter of farm animals legal.

That's the difference. You can argue philosophy all you want, but that's the reality.

[RadiationTherapy]

61. Because without cheap food, we cannot work our lives away.

Without cheap food, we cannot be the "most powerful economic and military superpower in the world".

Now get back to work, eater!

[Squatch]

64. If God didn't want us to eat animals

he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

[superduperfarleft]

65. Babies and old ladies are also made out of meat.

So are puppies and kitties. So are you.

But as long as I respect the sacrifice that the babies, old ladies, puppies, kitties, and you made, and make sure that all of the above were free-range and humanely-treated while still alive, I guess it's okay to eat them (and you).

[Marrah_G]

184. Would you please get a grip.

Understand that not everyone thinks as you do and that your often irrational and combatant posts do NOTHING but make you look like a real jackass. If anything you are pushing people away from the cause you are trying to promote.

Stop being a jerk to other DUers.

[superduperfarleft]

186. I know "he started it" is not an excuse, but why are you berating me

when you seem to show absolutely no concern for those who respond with "If god didn't want us to eat animals..." or "plants feel pain" posts, which aren't meant to provoke discussion, but are only meant to provoke vegetarians and vegans? Why is your desire for a civil discussion only directed towards me and not the other side of this argument?

[Marrah_G]

187. Because you are the one equating eating meat with murder and war

That is far different from saying that humans are omnivores and eating meat is not un- natural. Your posts have been over the top and have crossed the line.

[superduperfarleft]

194. I was not equating eating meat and war at all.

I was equating the naievete of a person who believes that US soldiers never kill civilians with the naievete of a person who believes that all animals are slaughtered painlessly. It was a minor point and I think we miss the larger part of my argument by arguing the nuance of the specific examples I use.

As for dogfighting and eating meat, I would argue and have argued that the two are similar, and I've attempted to explain clearly why I think so. No one has yet to explain to me why I'm wrong, except with "they just are," and the usual trolling comments that show up in every thread regarding veganism/vegetarianism or animal rights.

I would still say that your criticisms of my posts being "over the top" ring hollow when you seem perfectly comfortable with baiting comments like "if god didn't want us to eat animals" or pictures of meat. Often on DU, neither side seems capable of having a rational discussion without sniping or baiting each other, but I won't accept that I'm the only one guilty of it.

[Marrah_G]

201. I'm all done trying to reason with the irrational.

I wish you well.

[superduperfarleft]

203. Right, I'm irrational.

:eyes:

Well, at least I get typing practice this way.

[LWolf]

79. Maiming, killing, and causing pain for sport

is not the same thing as killing to eat.

That said, I would like to see factory farming abolished. If that means people eat a lot less meat, fine.

There's no way to eat without killing something, be it plant or animal. As long as people are still omnivores, we will have to kill our food. Given that, we can choose to raise food responsibly and ethically.

Speaking of which, I have 3 free-range, organic cockerels out in the coop ready to butcher. They were conceived and laid by my mixed flock, hatched by one of my broody hens, and spend their days free ranging throughout my little orchard. They can fly over the fence and free range on the whole place if they want, but they rarely do. I just have one hen that prefers to hang out in the barn with the horses rather than in the coop with the rest of the chickens. I'm going to get around to clipping her wings one of these days so she'll quit trying to roost in the hay.

Those cockerels have lived an easy, abundant, and stress-free, if short, life, and when they go, they'll go quickly and easily.

I got 6 fresh eggs today, and will get more as the days grow longer.

Home is not a factory, and factory food does not compare.

[IsItJustMe]

80. I don't see the correlation. Does not compute. Can you be anymore vague?

On edit:

A vegetarian once told me that I was a cannibal because I ate meat. I told her that I could not have a rational discussion with someone who was so irrational.

That's about the way I feel about this post.

[BoneDaddy]

210. Ding ding ding

you just won the prize for the most intelligent response in a sea of irrationality.

Thanks.

[El Pinko]

82. Animals killed for food are killed quickly and as painlessly as possible.

And it is done for a reason - food.

Animals used in fighting are forced to slowly tear each other apart for people's enjoyment.


If you can't see any distinction between the two things, maybe you should re-enroll in school or something.


I realize that some factory farms are not as humane as they should be - and personally, I think they should be shut down in those cases. But they are not SUPPOSED to be allowed to treat animals inhumanely.

[sakabatou]

92. Bingo

It's like apples... to porcupines.

[cushla_machree]

97. Do YOU REALLY believe that?

Animals raised on farms are not Killed quickly or painlessly. Ever read about chicken slaughter?

The worst *is* their lives....and they will continue to treat animals inhumanely as long as people buy and support it. I personally only buy local meat and eggs, though when you go out to eat your options are limited...therefore, people should speak up. But they won't, because they don't want to think about where their food comes from. They eat meat with every meal, and wonder why their cholesterol is so high and they have heart disease. Take pork:

Modern breeding sows are treated like piglet-making machines. Living a continuous cycle of impregnation and birth, each sow has more than 20 piglets per year. After being impregnated, the sows are confined in gestation crates — small metal pens just two feet wide that prevent sows from turning around or even lying down comfortably. At the end of their four-month pregnancies, they are transferred to similarly cramped farrowing crates to give birth. With barely enough room to stand up and lie down

Enjoy your factory farmed bacon.

If people really believe that their meat is brought to them as humanely as possible, you can start here:

http://www.farmsanctuary.org/issues/factoryfarming/

And while I don't support peta's message of telling everyone they should stop eating meat, go watch their videos and maybe think about reevaluating your beliefs.

http://www.petatv.com/

[El Pinko]

164. I really that there is inhumane treatment in many cases.

And I appreciate your devotion to the extremist group PETA (which in addition to some pretty stupid stunts, HAS done a lot of good in raising awareness of the horrors of factory farming).


But the question is why is dogfighting not illegal but not meat production, and I answered the question. The problem is not meat production, it's overly efficient, inhumane factory farms.

It's quite possible to raise animals for food and slaughter them humanely. It is not possible to conduct a humane dogfight.

I'm well aware of what goes on on factory farms. I grew up on a poultry ranch (where we had humane husbandry practices)

I hope PETA is successful in getting factory farmers to stop the inhumane practices.

But most of America, including myself has at least some awareness of this and still chooses to eat meat.

It's not about to be banned, so it would be best to focus on changing the factory-farm practices.

[flvegan]

118. What flavor Kool Aid is that?

[LanternWaste]

86. One is consciously predicated on violence

One is consciously predicated on violence-- indeed, that very same violence is the ultimate goal. The other isn't. A very precise and a very relevant difference.

I think that is why the outrage is not at the same level.

But this assumes you're asking your question with sincerity...

[seabeyond]

87. o.k. legalize dogfighting...... rollin eyes n/t

[Smith_3]

90. Personally, I'd be more in favor of rethinking factory farming. nt

[seabeyond]

91. nope n/t

[cushla_machree]

94. Nothing wrong with eating meat.....

How we get our meat is the problem. Inhumane treatment of animals and destructive environmental practices. Too bad more people aren't outraged. Its like corpotatye farming, the little guy can't have a hog farm because they large corporations get away with things that are flagrant EPA violations. And still, people eat their meat and don't think about it. Lifes easy when you don't think, even for so called progressives here.

[Eurobabe]

96. I won't stop eating meat, but I do believe that there has to be

a more humane way of raising cows, chickens, etc. (no more factory farms!) Edit: I buy organic meats.

[ItNerd4life]

99. Yet nobody cares about the plants tthat are needlessly slaughtered for food.

Ever seen how corn is picked? It's brutally ripped to shreds. Nobody cares about the feelings of the plants.

I'm the speaker for the plants. Don't eat plants, eat meat instead. :sarcasm:

[Madrone]

120. Boy - we've never heard THAT one before.

:eyes:

You'd think all that meat you're so proud of eating would give you the brainpower you'd need to come up with something original.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

128. Irony

They name is a DU thread comparing Meat eating to Dog fighting on which a vegan calls someone else unorigional..

[flvegan]

130. It's a weak, tired bullshit side to take.

Your hatred for veganism aside...

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

134. I dont hate vegans

Just people who use their diet as their religion....

[flvegan]

138. Hate sucks.

Abandon it.

You've made it very, very clear.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

140. Its a sad man

like you who substitutes his opinion for reality...

[flvegan]

143. No, it's a sad man

that lets his ego talk for him and doesn't GET reality and makes an apology for a wrong done because it fucking tastes good.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

147. Sharks dont apologize

Chimps dont apologize
Dolphins dont apologize

Animals (and Humans are animals) who eat other animals for sustenance have no need to apologize..

[flvegan]

151. Are you a shark?

Are you even an apex predator?

No.

You, friend, are an opportunistic carnivore. Like a dog.

Sharks, chimps, dolphins eat to survive. You eat to feel good.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

152. "You, friend, are an opportunistic carnivore. Like a dog."

Ok Ill take it, its stall a part of Nature..

[flvegan]

155. Enjoy being a scavenger.

At least it tastes good, which is all that matters to you.

Fuck morals, fuck ethics. "I like meat!"

Opportunistic carnivore is just another way to say scavenger.

Welcome to the bottom of the food chain.

Ha fucking ha.

[Marrah_G]

193. Both of you should just put each other on ignore

You obviously cannot have a rational discussion with each other on this topic.

[Marrah_G]

192. Both of you should just put each other on ignore

You obviously cannot have a rational discussion with each other on this topic.

[Madrone]

159. Ass

Thy name is DadOf2LittleAngels ASSuming the person he's responding to is vegan. ;)

If you are, in fact, interested in knowing - I am *mostly* vegetarian, technically pescatarian, and nowhere near ready or selfless enough (never say never) to be vegan. I also don't care what you eat. I ate TONS of meat and couldn't imagine a life without it up until about 7 or 8 years ago. That makes me no better than you. You might change your eating habits if you were confronted with where your food comes from too. I WILL call bullshit when I see it though - and your little witticism was exactly that.

[flvegan]

163. I don't think that

you think much of me, but this is an excellent post.

A better post than I could make, and I don't care what you eat.

[NuttyFluffers]

222. y'know, i've always got flak for believing this.

and i really do love many plants more than many animals. i loved my dear dog sooo much. but i also cried as immensely when the tree that was planted when i was born and grew up with was uprooted and killed. i feel nothing but sadness when i watch some of my favorite plants die, like certain perennials, or absence of a carpet of annuals. but i feel nothing for deer, orcas, and certain other animals. to me they are less than jellyfish are to other people. in fact, i looooove jellyfish. and the same thing applies to certain fungi, too. i'm an extra-kingdom opportunist when sharing my love and devotion.

it was always insulting to me that people felt my understanding of empathy was 'wrong' and needed 'correction'. somehow i was made to feel that i needed to bring my hierarchy of empathy in line with the 'cuddlypoos' animal and mammalian bias. i still resent that. that anthropocentric "sentience meter", which further structures order of empathy, always rubbed me the wrong way.

but then i'm an eggplant.

[Hippo_Tron]

100. Simple, dogs are looked at differently than cows in western society

It is certainly hypocritical. There's also no way to change western society's attitude about this.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. How is it hypocritical?

I mean, if we criticized certain asian cultures for eating dogs and considering cows sacred, OK, I can see how that would be hypocritical.

But short of that I don't see hypocrisy.

[Hippo_Tron]

103. We do criticize asian cultures all the time for eating dogs and considering cows sacred

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. I don't.

Do you?

[Hippo_Tron]

108. Nope but I'm talking about our society as a whole

Most people in the United States cannot believe that they eat dogs in China. It's because we are culturally conditioned to assign human attributes to dogs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

110. So when you're talking about changing western attitudes...

you're talking about sinophobia as opposed to dietary habits.

[Iktomiwicasa]

113. I eat dog meat occasionally

seriously, it is one of our traditional foods. I also hunt wild game for about 85% of the meat I eat.

[gollygee]

101. This should say "why is dogfighting illegal but factory farming isn't?"

because whenever anyone says anything about eating meat, the assumption is that the meat comes from a factory farm. The meat I eat comes from friends of mine who raise a few steer each year.

I don't have any problem with factory farming techniques being illegal, but I think the idea of making meat eating illegal is ridiculous.

[KaryninMiami]

105. A very good question - one that as a Vegetarian, I wonder about too

I'm also not a fan of dog racing, horse racing of circuses- all of which use cruel techniques to make the animals perform. For those who believe that eating meat is necessary for human life, I'd like to suggest that they think again- and learn how the consumption of animals not only continues to spread legal cruelty to living creatures but also contributes tremendously to global warming.

Loved your post- thanks.

[IronLionZion]

112. Sure factory farming needs to be better regulated

but good luck getting me to stop eating meat.

Eating food and watching violence are two very different things and you provide a false analogy. It's wrong when RWers use abortion vs. war to talk about senseless murder.

[NorthernSpy]

114. 'cause two-faced gluttons have all the power...

Really, it's just arbitrary. We didn't get here via some rigorous moral test.

[ileus]

116. Because Eating Meat and Fighting Dogs are two different things.

[flvegan]

119. This is true. Fighting dogs is hands on.

Eating meat is paying someone else to be cruel for you.

Good point.

[LeftyMom]

117. Because people are selfish assholes, and theygenerally like eating dead animals.

Next question?

[unkachuck]

121. "Why is dogfighting....

....illegal but eating meat isn't?"

....because our politicians and their corporate owners don't enjoy the savory flavor of dog?

[Wednesdays]

123. Either that, or cow fighting as a sport has never really caught on...

:shrug:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

122. Because

1) Eating Meat is natural

and

2) Training Animals to kill their own kind for entertainment is not

[flvegan]

131. Don't know shit about nutrition, do ya.

"Eating meat is natural" huh?

Eat it raw. Eat it raw every time.

[Dorian Gray]

150. Eat Kosher or Halal meat

They aren't treated cruelly, killed painfully, or caged for all their lives.

[cgrindley]

173. Um... do you actually know anything about kosher and halal

butchering? because I'm thinking that you probably don't.

[Dorian Gray]

174. Um.... I do

Treating the animals well is provision of Kosher butchering. Kosher meats are "humane" slaughters. I know that some might believe NO slaughters can possibly be humane, but not every single person will become vegetarian. Those who CHOOSE NOT TO should choose a butchering process that is more humane than keeping animals caged their entire life.

[cgrindley]

177. Nope

kosher and halal butchering require that animals be conscious when their throats are slit. this is not an airbolt through the brain.

[LeftyMom]

220. kosher/halal does not preclude confinement- you're confusing separate issues.

As for the idea that kosher slaughter is humane- you really just need to go look at this hidden camera video from an investigation atthe world's largest glatt kosher slaughter plant, Agriprocessors in Iowa. If you think this is humane, you're deluded.

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_long

[natrat]

167. cuz we live in a fucked up world way past it's use by date

[cgrindley]

168. Chickens deserve short miserable lives

killing them and eating them is doing them a huge favor.

[superduperfarleft]

170. I think you're wrong, but....

I will enjoy the cognitive dissonance on display when all the carnivorous cuddlytarians respond with outrage at your post.

[cgrindley]

171. We domesticated the dog about 18,000 years ago

to provide useful services to us, none of which included being eaten. We domesticated cats some 9,000 years ago, likewise, to provide useful services. Cattle were domesticated about 8,000 years ago (apparently the final touches being done just a few thousand years ago) and part of their deal included being raised with the express purpose of being killed and eaten. Ditto pigs, goats, sheep and so on. This is just their deal, their lot in life. It's the flip side of the cushy existence they get as a benefit of domestication.

Cow = yum

vegematarians need to get a life and quit it with the sanctimonious bullshit--projection caused by a lack of red meat in their diets.

remember

cow = yum

the equation is that simple. And chickens really are disgusting. They totally deserve death and deep frying.

[Warren Stupidity]

176. Chickens are friendly clan oriented woodland ground birds

If left to themselves they will hang in wooded groves and run out to meet their humans when you show up. They can be quite charming. Of course if you have to care for hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of them, I could see how you might stop admiring their finer qualities and just look at them as a lot of smelly work. But a small number of chickens are good animal company and they share their eggs too.

[cgrindley]

178. well, if you put it that way

they sound even tastier.

[iamthebandfanman]

179. we dont force cows to battle

for our enjoyment.
we eat them.
we dont eat dogs, mind u some cultures do.
and while ultimately they both probably have the same fate, death... one is a painful bleeding to death and the other is hopefully a more peaceful end(quicker and painless).

plus, it doesnt hurt that dogs are 'mans best friend'.

[Smith_3]

185. In Spain people fight cows. nt

[iamthebandfanman]

189. i suppose thats true

as well as in other places as well....

but its still not cow on cow death matches.

p.s. i think bull fighting is gross if it includes the final steps.
i dont mind some guy running around with a bull, but jabbing it with knives is extreme.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

206. And 99% of DUers would object to that

The problem is the folks who intimately tie the act of eating meat to factory farming/dog & bull fighting...

[slackmaster]

212. And sometimes the cattle actually win

[EstimatedProphet]

191. When's the last time you saw a cowfighting ring?

[Smith_3]

195. Here:

[slackmaster]

213. They have a cowfighting street party in Pamplona every year

[slackmaster]

200. Because dogs have personality

[bryant69]

202. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm meat. I love meat

It's great. You should try some.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[DS1]

204. The same reason we don't eat cows and pigs which are butchered alive

even though I know some are mistreated - disclaimer before I get jumped on for being ignorant of the meat industry.

[BoneDaddy]

209. Chicken and cows....YUM

Because no one likes to eat dog. At least not here.
Flame bait....Nice try.

[housewolf]

216. Because we love dogs and hate cattle?

:shrug:

[housewolf]

217. Because dogfighting is about gambling

and eating meat isn't?

And we can't have gambling, now, can we?

:shrug:

[leftofthedial]

218. why don't we eat criminals?

:shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

219. Now THAT'S a modest proposal!

:D Pass the Kristol Hot Sauce! :9

[LisaL]

221. Cause dogs are pets.

In case you didn't notice, it's not o'key to eat dogs either.

[AlertLurker]

224. I LOVE meat, but hate factory farming.