Is The Current Political Process Corrupted Beyond Redemption?

[Orwellian_Ghost]

Maybe the bottom line is whether or not we all seek the same depth of changes in our society. There is no doubt in my mind that whether under the control of Democrats (and I am speaking on a federal level, as I know that in some state legislatures there is more diversity of acceptable opinion and less 'selling-out') or the Republicans, the number one beneficiary of political decisions, be they foreign policy or domestic, will be large industries/the extremely wealthy - that is, the general protection of the status quo, and the continuation of a capital-before-people mentality, the right of the US to impose its will on sovereign nations for the benefit of its corporations, etc.

If people are comfortable with this reality, if a slightly higher minimum wage and a slightly friendlier attitude toward minorities or some minor (and generally unenforced) efforts toward reducing environmental damage, if changes on that level are good enough, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But if people are seeking significant change, if they want to see the current military occupations end, the power of the military-industrial complex diminish or disappear, and the rights of working people protected, health care for everyone, fair elections based on platforms rather than personalities, or other changes of that magnitude, then an honest analysis of the of our desire/ability to make those changes must be undertaken. And by all analyses I don't see these changes coming through the current political process which is owned lock, stock and barrel by those same large industries/wealthy elites.

I wish it was a matter of pressuring them, writing letters, lobbying their offices, supporting certain candidates. But it has been shown time and time again that these measures don't work. And this is the question I still don't seem to have a clear answer for - what evidence is there (in this time of high-paid and high-powered corporate lobbyists, manipulated elections, pro-corporate media, etc) that the citizens of this country have any real influence over the politicians in Washington, or even that elections actually represent the will of the American people? There are a few Dem politicians in DC who seem to have integrity and a willingness to speak the truth, but due to the power and influence of the DLC and other neo-liberal and conservative political groups (and the relative lack of power, $$$ and influence these few good politicians have), how can they possibly take over the party enough to change the course it is on? I see some placating legislation here and there but when it comes to the big national issues - war, health care, oil dependency, environment, there is little more than rhetoric and half-measures. It's the whole thing about doing the same things over and over and expecting different results....

As an aside, I have been doing a fair amount of reading about social uprisings, revolts, and revolutions lately. There is one thing I know for sure - people successfully demanding social change is NOT some impossible dream. It has happened throughout history, all over the globe. It is common, it is necessary, and, as far as I am concerned (and as far as the thousands of US soldiers killed and wounded, the millions of people around the world dead, dying, suffering,or displaced because of US foreign policy are concerned), IT IS TIME.

[originalpckelly]

1. You and I agree.

I feel powerless to do anything, it's like these people have no ears or eyes when it comes to hearing or reading about our concerns as a nation. I've lost faith in representative government.

[originalpckelly]

2. I should say, I feel powerless in the current system.

We're the Democratic Party, not the people in Washington!

We must be the people to cause change, because I don't really think they want change. They've been bought off.

[truedelphi]

23. Bought off on every level.

Any one of those in Congress knows that the media can be brought to bear on them and they can be pushed out rapidly.

And then when "little things" like Wellstone's plane going down, despite it being a plane piloted by not one but two pilots, well even those who have kept their noses clean might wonder if doing right is worth it.

[pinto]

3. No. In hindsight, change seems to have been sudden and dramatic.

In real time, it looks to have happened more gradually, over time.

We all want change. The key, imho, is investing the time it takes to make it happen.

[originalpckelly]

4. What was 2006?

People worked their fucking asses off! And it looks to have done nothing good!

Now we're being promised that if we give our side one party government, it'll fix all the problems. I honestly think that we have humans in our party, and they're not capable of handling that much power unchecked. They're bound to fall into the same traps as Republicans, because it's not about ideology, it's about common sense and the inability of individuals to resist temptation.

[pinto]

11. You don't think 2006 laid the groundwork for 2008? Dean's leadership of the DNC,

and the 50 state agenda, helped enable our success in '06, and, imo, our rigorous '08 national campaign.

I see your implied point, if I read it correctly, that 2006 didn't deliver all we hoped.

I ask you - did any two years of a new Congress deliver everything voters were hoping to see accomplished?

Was Iraq going to be over in 12 months, realistically? Was impeachment of either of our two top executives going to get front burner status in 12 months or so, realistically? Was 8 years of erosion in the federal bureaucracy going to be halted - and rectified - in 12 months?

I think we've laid the groundwork for change, across the board. And the issues have at least been brought to the table.

I understand your hesitation about a one party government, as well, but don't share your concern. I think the Democratic voice in the government structures, from the states to the federal level, are diverse enough to move a broad agenda forward on key issues.

[originalpckelly]

13. History tends to repeat itself.

I seem to remember that the Democrats were at one time in full control of the House and the Senate and with a Clinton in the White House, and it didn't turn out well.

[pinto]

16. A Democratic president, regardless of last name, won't be signing Executive Orders to undermine

the written laws established by the Congress.

You can take that one to the bank.

[originalpckelly]

18. What proof do we have that they're going to follow the US Constitution?

Their word? Is that how a good government works?

Forgive me for being cynical and not being willing to take a politician, even someone from our party, at their word. These people are full of crap, I don't think these people, who've never met me, really give a shit about me. If they don't even know I exist, how can they do what's right for me?

We're the Democratic Party, not the leadership.

[pinto]

19. If you can't trust anyone, or take one at his word, I don't know what to say.

I appreciate your points, though. Thanks.

:hi:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

15. For the record

Bill Clinton continued aggressions against Iraq during both his terms.

In fact international bodies were urging for Clinton to lift the sanctions on several occasions and it was blocked at every turn by the Clinton administration. The loss of life and suffering cannot be calculated.

Worth thinking about.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

6. Often the case

but it can also occur suddenly for reasons unexpected.

It is interesting to study various people's movements, as opposed to electoral politics, and see how people gained meaningful advances in their social structures.

[annabanana]

5. The process is not. . , , ,but

these people are:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

7. The process is tightly controlled

The hurdles are immense and it is meant to be that way. It's amazing how much of the people's energies gets sucked into the infinte steam valves that the system has concocted. In fact I'd say the system is brilliant.

[scarletwoman]

8. Yes. Definitely corrupted beyond redemption. And your OP needs more recs. (nt)

[flashl]

9. Yes, and the time for real change is now. I am not sure how...

There seem to be a thousand layers of 'special interest', non-governmental agencies, and shadow unelected officials woven throughout what we call government. Therefore, changing elected officials will not change the way government runs. A newly elected official coming to Washington with the best of intentions encounters and rarely overcome the built-in 'systems' of special interest that is resistant to change.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

12. A point along those lines

Someone mentioned to me this AM having coffee how we are focusing on these charismatic (or not) figureheads when it is the institutions and organizations that remain in perpetuity and continue to consolidate power even as the shiny (or not so) faces come and go. All the while we stay focused on the face in front that really has little meaning when compared to these powerful superstructures.

[flashl]

14. Exactly. nt

[originalpckelly]

17. I second the "Exactly"!

Maybe what you're talking about is related to this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2846494&mesg_id=2846494

Capture is the idea that regulatory agencies eventually become tools of the people they're supposed to regulate through bribery.

I think this is going on a larger scale, the whole system of representation is like a regulatory agency. As long as there is a minor percentage of the population in control of things government wise, it will be possible to bride them.

[flashl]

20. This admin did not hide the revolving door of industry representatives

taking positions as heads of government agencies, rewriting regulations that reduced government oversight of their industry, opening up public lands to their industries, and then immediately return to their companies.

GSEs should be another trillion dollar financal boomdoggle to check out.

[Rex]

10. We won't know for decades.

The damage done is unfathomable at the moment, because we haven't seen the worst yet.

[truedelphi]

21. Yes it is broken, and it may be fixed but not in my lifetime n/t

[truedelphi]

22. Yes it is broken, and it may be fixed but not in my lifetime n/t

[sjdnb]

24. Kind of what I was trying to say ... with my post, but,

you've expressed it much better than I did.

My post "Thought I might be able to vote for one of them, but upon reflection,"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4532670&mesg_id=4532670

I have called more DC numbers than family and friends. I've emailed, petitioned, canvassed, phonebanked, etc. election cycle after election cycle ... and, still, I'm left watching the Dem Leadership cave (often, before having to) more times than I care to remember. Year after year, election after election, we the people get left further and further behind .... and, our country sinks deeper into the abyss.

[opihimoimoi]

25. K&R Now is the time to demand change to Reflect Benevolency, Generousity, Sanity, Reason, CommonGood

etc

The Patterns of Social Change indicate the urgency.

To Fail is to invite Mega Misery...We should be doing this in a Fail Safe manner...Failure is NOT an OPTION.

[OneBlueSky]

26. in a word . . . YES! . . . it won't matter who is elected president, because . . .

they're all part of the same system that is allowing this country to fall apart economically, socially, spiritually, and every othet way . . . none of the candidates will end the war, enact universal healthcare, halt the recession/depression or, most importantly, stand up to the corporations that have taken over the government . . .

the only thing that will cause massive change is a massive catastrophe -- which we're in the early stages of . . . it's gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets any better . . .

[Orwellian_Ghost]

27. Resurfacing

for further input.