GM to get rid of unions once and for all?

[cgrindley]

The news just broke that GM is planning to offer a buy out to all 74,000 of its hourly labor. Why does no one seemingly give a shit? What happened to make GM so unresponsive to change in people's driving habits and to world fuel prices and supply, so incapable of designing an even remotely acceptable, well built or attractive car, so intensely poorly managed? It is horrifying that such a once great company could collapse into a bleak shithole. Why did the unions allow this to happen?


http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/12/news/companies/gm/index.htm?cnn=yes

[mvccd1000]

1. Allow it to happen?

I'd say they caused it to happen.

I grew up in Michigan, in a GM family. There is probably over 200 years of GM experience in the still-living members of my family, and another 100 years in those who have died.

From the stories I've heard from my grandfather, who worked in a Chevrolet plant in downtown Flint when it was first organized, the union had done everything it can to slow down work and make trouble for the company ever since those days.

My personal experience working at GM for seven years tells me things haven't changed in the intervening 70 years.

I'll be glad to see them go.

[rateyes]

2. Yeah, back to the days of the company store!!

Those were good times. Not.

[nono]

3. Were you a union member?

I am a 50 year member, and we never caused a slow down or made trouble.

[maxrandb]

5. Don't interrupt the serial Union Bashing.

Can hear the same thing on any AM radio 24/7!

Let's not look at management. Let's not look into CEO compensation or mis-management.

I mean, why do that when you can blame the hard-working folks on the factory floor.

30-40 years ago, CEO's and top executives averaged salaries at about 10-15 times higher than the highest paid hourly worker. Today, it's not uncommon for those salaries to average 1,000 to 3,000 times higher.

But yeah! It's all the unions fault.

What people don't seem to comprehend is that unions have made the Middle Class stronger. I'd like to see GM sell their cars when these Union folks go take $8 an hour jobs, vice $17-27 an hour.

Talk about pissing in your own Wheaties.

[blondeatlast]

6. What you said, my friend, what you said.

:thumbsup:

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. You are exactly right. And on which side of this issue are Clinton and Obama?

I leave that as an excercise for the reader.

[cgrindley]

11. I blame everyone

the unions get some of the blame for being slow to react and all too willing to get down on their knees to management

the designers get some of the blame for appallingly shitty designs

management gets most of the blame for mismanaging the companies into the ground

the consumers get blamed for not being willing to pay more for American cars, hence leading to cost cutting

hell, even Road and Track gets some of the blame by not giving honest reviews of American cars (which suck and have sucked for decades)

[mvccd1000]

7. I don't think everyone does so....

I would imagine that people who would be good workers without the union are probably good workers with the union. It's just the people who are NOT good workers - who would be fired without the union - that give the union such a bad name.

Well, that and things like the Delphi strike in '97 or '98 that turned out to be about getting some UAW fat cat's relatives cushy jobs at GM. :)

We voted down the union three times during my seven years, mostly because of the things we saw come out of union shops we had to work with. Our people in Indianapolis ended up taking parts to Fedex and spending their own money rather than letting Local 933 destroy them in shipping.

I have so many horror stories from dealing with people the union protected, but this is not the place for them. Instead, I will apologize for painting you with that broad brush and acknowledge that the good workers probably far outnumber the bad, in spite of the union.

[cap]

12. Since you dont like unions... what's your alternative?

What can you propose to give the average worker the lifestyle that the GM worker has had? Stable employment, a house, a retirement, health care, and, in many cases, a small vacation house and a small boat, and the ability to send their kids to college.

I'm talking the average... not the college educated but the average worker.

Until you have a better solution, lay off the union bashing.

[notadmblnd]

14. self delete, it posted twice.

[notadmblnd]

15. Well look to management for that. The unions do not do the hiring

the corporation does. Perhaps you should turn your anger towards your masters for their bad judgment in hiring practices and leave the workers alone?

[LakeSamish706]

4. I have been a Union Member all of my life and I totally disagree with you....

If it weren't for Unions we would have similar conditions to what Mexico is/has been living with for so many years. Yes, there are some problems with Unions but it is up to management to negotiate in good faith. Let the Unions be gone, and you can really kiss the American workers ass good bye.

[maxrandb]

8. You're absolutely right

Perhaps the worst side-effect of the "rights" rise to power, has been the all-out war on Unions and organized Labor.

Maybe we can all go to Canada to take the jobs Canadians won't do. I mean, as long as they don't build a fence or something.

The "wingnuts" are doing their dead-level-best to turn America into a 3RD World Country with a small group of uber-wealthy, and the rest of us "just damn thankful" to have a job.

Lot's of Americans have happily gone along with it, because "hey, at least gays can't get married".

Makes me wonder what the hell happened to all the crumbs from the wealthy folks tables that were going to feed us all.

[notadmblnd]

13. Are you aware that many of the labor laws that protect us are only on the books

because of unions? The 40 hour work week, paid overtime, child labor laws etc.? Just because you don't belong to a union doesn't mean you haven't benefited by them (oh, your post says you work for GM). And what about all the people who fought and died trying to get many of those workers rights? Surly if your family has over 200 years of GM experience, then they also were affected by these deaths, I know my family was, were their deaths for nothing? Unions would have been totally unnecessary if corporate greed monsters could have been counted on not to exploit workers.

I know the only reason my son and I have health care and a pittance of husbands pension (husband is dead), is because a union fought for those benefits and without them we'd be joining the legions of uninsured, and could quite possibly be homeless.

Yeah, unions have done nothing.. Let's all go back to the robber baron years and enjoy working for our corporate masters because we can count on them to treat working people decently.

You know, there's an old proverb: It is better to remain silent and appear ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[NoGOPZone]

19. All that experience in the auto industry

and it seems you understand very little about it.

Unions make cars, not decisions. They implement decisions made by others.

If a business fails, it's always management's fault. Always. Why? Because it's management's responsibility to ensure the success of the business. If it fails, by definition they've failed at their jobs. Management earns the praise and reaps most of the rewards when business is going well, like it did at GM during the SUV boom. If GM is failing, it's because it hasn't adapted to the changing market.

[lonestarnot]

9. Reaganomics, easteregg boy.

[Romulox]

16. The American people WILL NOT support American workers

We WILL NOT pay what it costs to support our own lifestyles.

That's why our country is in a death spiral.

[mvccd1000]

17. It's not just me....

(Although I only buy American.)

Take a look at this thread right on this site, with a bunch of DUers dumping all over American cars.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2851626

How can GM continue to support a union when so many people are more interested in buying from non-union manufacturers? If they keep that up, they will be out of business. How will the middle class survive then?

[blues90]

18. It's always the workers who are blamed

They made these companies possible by their hard work yet since the company was poorly managed due to their resistence to make competitive cars and high costs .

Yes the foreign manufacturures have a younger work force but they have not been in america as long so they had an edge . However GM has not bent to change well .

I feel this is the end of unions for many reasons . Gm outsourced many of the models for import so they made no attempt to keep the work froce here in the USA .

I recall it cost ford about $7,000 out the factory door factoring labor and materials to build the explorer and these sold for $20,000 . So where did the profit go there ?

[knitter4democracy]

20. The unions "allowed" this to happen?!

Are you serious?! The unions didn't do in GM, the freakin' executives did. Have you ever seen how big their executive core is? It's huge? They have VPs for absolutely everything and then some. GM hasn't been hiring enough engineers and has been keeping their hands tied for years. They've cut R&D over and over again, and their cars don't sell well.

It's not the UAW's fault GM has been so poorly run.