Up for a revolution? Please read, and then help me finish the document:

[rateyes]

AT DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, FEBRUARY 12, 2008
The Declaration of the patriots of the united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of humankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people are created equal, that they are endowed by Nature with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among People, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that humankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of the patriots of the United States of America; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present President and his administration, Congress, and the Judiciary is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

------------------------------------------

Now, let's lay out the facts.

[rateyes]

1. President Bush, with the complicity of the Department of Justice

and the CIA, cherry-picked intelligence in order to start a war in Iraq in violation of the United Nations Charter, a treaty that under the Constitution is part of the supreme law of the land.

[rateyes]

2. The Department of Justice, at the behest of the Bush administration

offered an illegal opinion justifying the torture of prisoners under its control.

[rateyes]

3. Come on people, I need your help. nt

[Bright Eyes]

4. How about....

1. Supreme Court annotating Bush, despite the popular vote.
2. Signing statements
3. Violations of the 4th Amendment, to spy on American Citizen's communication
4. Violations of the 5th and 6th amendments by holding POW without due process
5. Violations of the 8th amendment by torturing POWs

And that’s just for starters

[rateyes]

5. Good.

I want to get a complete list, and then finish the document, and then offer it on DU for signatures.

[tekisui]

6. The Illegal Search and Seizures. Illegal Wiretapping

of American citizens.

[rateyes]

7. Thank you. nt

[rateyes]

8. Congress, in the face of evidence of the high crimes of the

Bush administration has turned a virtual blind eye to these crimes, and refused to exercise their power under the Constitution to remove the executive from office through impeachment, trial and conviction.

[tekisui]

11. The Speaker of the House is participating in Obstruction of Justice.

She is actively working against the will of the people by preventing Impeachment.

[rateyes]

13. True. nt

[rateyes]

9. President Bush ignored the warnings preceding the attacks on

on our homeland on September 11, 2001, and failed to act to prevent them.

[originalpckelly]

10. The people of this nation have patiently waited for our leadership to act in defense of liberty.

In so waiting, each day became a testament to the failure of this government. Through every means of civil protest and redress, this people has been ignored by its leaders. The hollow echo of "representative democracy" has been shown for the falsehood that it always was, and it has been demonstrated by its own history to be an unsuitable form of government.

It is nothing but aristocracy cloaked in the language of liberty and democracy. Democracy is rule by the people, proportionately and with respect to the rights of minorities. Representative democracy is the sham that another person cares about the people, though most of those people are totally anonymous to the "representatives."

[rateyes]

12. Most excellent. Thank you.

[originalpckelly]

18. You're most welcome.

I've done this exercise before, and it usually produces nothing, but who knows with our economic system collapsing people might have finally decided they're fed up with this bullshit.

[rateyes]

23. Maybe it will take a good Depression to get people in the streets.

[bryant69]

14. You say you want a revolution?

Count me out.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[rateyes]

15. OK. Perhaps, though, you can share with me another way

to reverse the course we are on toward total tyranny. :shrug:

[bryant69]

21. Revolution would not stop this

Probably make things worse.

Bryant

[rateyes]

22. Perhaps you can share with me how you would

reverse the course toward total tyranny. :shrug:

[bryant69]

29. Well my plan is to continue to work for incremental change through

the current governmental system.

Not as glamorous as a pie in the sky revolution that won't go anywhere and is kind of adolescent, I admit.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[rateyes]

30. How has that worked out for us over the past 50 years?

The framers didn't take revolution lightly, either (although, they were accused by the loyalists of being "adolescent"). It's that "long train of abuses" that finally got to them.

[bryant69]

38. I think it's worked pretty well over the last 50 years, but the last 8 years or so haven't been

as good.

Well I certainly wouldn't call the founding fathers adolescent.

Bryant

[originalpckelly]

47. It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.

[bryant69]

48. Oooo Good comeback.

Did you get that off a crackerjack box?

Bryant

[originalpckelly]

49. It's far more ridiculous to think that total stranger knows me better than I do...

than to think we need a revolution in America.

The past 8 years had their roots in the past 70, if you really look at our history, it's been a slow and continuos progression toward tyranny under the guise of freedom.

[bryant69]

50. That last bit is nonsense. I've really looked at history.

But I do agree, there's no need for a revolution in America.

Bryant

[originalpckelly]

54. There has been an ever present centralization of power in our country.

It persists no matter the party in charge. The growth in secrecy is also there.

We've seen immense progress in the relationships between we the people, but between we the people and our government, it seems we've regressed to a modern monarchy.

[rateyes]

51. Well, then, perhaps I'm looking at the history of the last 50 years

differently than are you.

[bryant69]

55. Maybe you should make a more in-depth study

Try to look at it without your ideological blinders.

Bryant

[rateyes]

56. And, perhaps, you are the one who needs more in-depth study

of history...or, perhaps consider different interpretations than your own biased version of the events.

[bryant69]

58. I've read Zinn - I've read Loewen

Didn't find them persuasive.

I'm pretty sure it's you.

By the way isn't "non-violent revolution" a whole lot like "doing nothing but feeling good about ourselves?"

Bryant

[originalpckelly]

59. Tell that to Gandhi or MLK.

I think civilized debate with other people is the most powerful tool for change in the history of the world.

[rateyes]

60. Tell that to Martin Luther King,

Ghandi, Walesa, et al.

And, I'm pretty sure it's your understanding of history that needs tweaking.

[bryant69]

61. Different conditions in all situations

They had limited goals - you want to overhaul the system. They also a lot more support; how many do you expect to follow your revolution?

Nope - it's you. And you know how you can tell? How many people do you expect to follow your revolution again?

Bryant

[rateyes]

65. Well, I know I can't count on you...

but, a movement has to start with someone somewhere. It's called building it from the ground up. We'll let you join, though, down the road after we've done the hard work to make it happen.

[originalpckelly]

31. The problem is that the whole system is inherently flawed.

This may not be an idea that's shared by others with the urge for revolutionary change, it is my own personal conclusion after a good deal of time evaluating it.

It's always possible for a representative to be bribed, and that alone appears to one of the greatest flaws of "representative democracy" or really "representative government."

On top of that, at the very least there are too few Representatives. Per member of the House of Representatives, there are 689, 655 people. If they took one day to meet and get to know the people they are charged with representing, it would take 1,889 years for them to accomplish that task.

And really, how well can you get to know someone in only one day?

That's the problem here, it is mathematically impossible for these people to really know what we want and represent us.

And if you do the Senate, it's even worse because there are fewer Senators.

It would seem to me that we the people are the only ones who know what's best for us.

[originalpckelly]

16. We're not carrying pictures of Chairman Mao.

So quit Stalin, and get on the bandwagon. Change is uh comin!

It doesn't have to be violent you know!

[rateyes]

17. Excellent. nt

[tekisui]

19. Hear Hear! Add to this text:

We will use only non-violent practices to ensure the preservation of a free and just society of equality for all.

[rateyes]

20. Including non-violent civil disobedience if need be. nt

[originalpckelly]

25. The only true change can be from within. We know that every person must understand...

and want change themselves in order for change to occur. Violent coercion would only serve to defeat that purpose.

There are going to be many ideas about how America should change, and thankfully in the 21st century we have an unprecedented opportunity to debate one another and determine which systems of government best suit our nation on the internet. The winners of the competition in the marketplace of ideas will hopefully be the just means to just ends.

What we do know, is that there must be a revolutionary change at this time in our history. We're not carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, we don't want to end private property, we just want a more reasonable system of government.

[Bright Eyes]

24. Here's more

6. Using White Phosphorus in Fallujah, a violation of the Geneva Protocol and the Chemical Weapons Convention.
7. War of Aggression against Iraq, a violation of Article 51 of the UN Charter.
8. Abu Ghraib scandal, violating Part II, Article 13 of the Third Geneva Convention (you might want to omit this one, as the text isn't fully clear)

Looking for more now, especially about Iraq.

[rateyes]

34. Thanks. nt

[Wiley50]

26. I see blatant plagarism. Could you be more creative? n/t

[rateyes]

27. Do you now?

You think I should provide a footnote to my source? :D

[originalpckelly]

28. I know, improper citation is a sure way to plagiarism!

:P

[Wiley50]

33. R U working from a Microsoft Word template for "Declarations?

If not, then maybe you should.

Not everyone is familiar with the source, though many are.

[rateyes]

35. No, I'm not. And, isn't it sad that there might be people

reading this post and not be familiar with the document from which it comes? The so-called "plagiarism" is part of the point.

[originalpckelly]

39. I'm just kidding you.

:P

I think the point of the original reply was to suggest that we should come with our own document, and not re-use the past.

We're all just getting started hear.

It really doesn't matter if the whole government comes into the hands of this party, the system is corrupt, even if the people participating in it are good people doing what they think is best.

[rateyes]

43. I know you were. Wiley, I'm not so sure about.

I understood the point. It seems Wiley failed to understand mine.

[Wiley50]

40. sorry, I shouldn't interfere with a committed revolutionary n/t

[rateyes]

45. Sorry, too. If you absolutely need help understanding this:

The words in the OP come from The unanimous Declaration of the united States of America, originally dated 4 July, 1776, and signed in Independence Hall in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

I used this declaration because I assumed that EVERY DUer would know the source to be what they have come to know as "The Declaration of Independence" and changed a few words to make a point that, perhaps, went right over your head.

The point is that, (as Thomas Jefferson believed), sometimes the only thing that will change the course of events and keep us a free people is, in fact, revolution.

Peace.

[Wiley50]

37. R U working from a Microsoft Word template for "Declarations?

If not, then maybe you should.

Not everyone is familiar with the source, though many are.

[bdamomma]

32. check out this website:

http://www.nogw.com/warcrimes.html

after looking at this how can anyone of us live with ourselves???

[rateyes]

36. Thank you. Excellent.

[bdamomma]

42. where are you sending that letter? how about sending it to the UN too.

[rateyes]

46. I'm going to put it up for "signatures" on DU,

and see how many are willing to use all nonviolent means to change a system of government that is miserably failing us right now. Beyond that, I'll come up with a list of leaders in the branches of government to share it with.

[rateyes]

41. The Federal Government failed miserably in its responsibility

to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina, especially those who were stranded in New Orleans and the surrounding parishes.

[bdamomma]

44. this is pretty interesting too

about Katrina basically an interview:

http://www.counterpunch.org/maass08302006.html

http://rwor.org/a/062/bushcommission-en.html

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

52. I'm not signing anything...

...that doesn't deal with the fact that Jeb Bush is all in my house with disease. If you add that, I'll reconsider.

[Crabby Appleton]

53. (All Three)

National and International

[rateyes]

57. ROFLMAO....

I think that might can be arranged. :rofl:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

62. walk softly with posts like these... read on...

sedition
se·di·tion Pronunciation
–noun
1. incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government.
2. any action, esp. in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.

Because sedition is typically considered a subversive act, the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another. Where those legal codes have a traceable history, there is also a record of the change of definition for what constituted sedition at certain points in history. This overview has served to develop a sociological definition of sedition as well, within study of persecution.

The difference between sedition and treason consists primarily in the subjective ultimate object of the violation to the public peace. Sedition does not consist of levying war against a government nor of adhering to its enemies, giving enemies aid, and giving enemies comfort. Nor does it consist, in most representative democracies, of peaceful protest against a government, nor of attempting to change the government by democratic means (such as direct democracy or constitutional convention.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition

Put simply, sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power.

Imagine going down to your local brewpub or coffee shop. You meet some friends. The talk turns to the war. You criticize the President and his wealthy supporters. Next thing you know, a couple of husky fellows at the next table grab you, hustle you out the door and down to the local police station. You are arrested on a charge of sedition. Within months you are indicted, tried and convicted. The judge sentences you to 5-10 years in prison — and off you go! Think this could never happen? Well, it happened not that long ago — during World War I — to scores of ordinary people in Montana. They discovered very painfully that their free speech rights had been stripped away by the state legislature.

This site is about the 76 men and three women convicted of the crime of sedition in Montana in 1918 and 1919. The law they ran afoul of was possibly the harshest anti-speech law passed by any state in the history of the United States. Forty of those men — and one woman — served prison terms at the state penitentiary in Deer Lodge under sentences of up to 20 years. They were sent there for simply expressing their opinions — about President Wilson, about America's entry into World War I, about the armed forces, or about some other government agency. One man was sentenced to 7 - 20 years for saying the wartime food regulations were a "big joke." Others were convicted but only fined. A handful were found not guilty.
http://www.seditionproject.net/

[paparush]

64. Agent Mike would like you to have a seat right over here..

The monumental irony that Prescott Bush helped plan the overthrow of FDR..and now we, the people, have to talk in hushed tones regarding his insane grandson.

[jmg257]

63. I need to hear the "exit strategy"...What are your plans for AFTER "the revolution"?

What type of government will you institute? NO doubt there have been major usurptions of power in the last 200 years, many of them the results of we, the people gladly giving more power and more control and more responsibility to those in power, just so we can "enjoy" less.

Realizing * and co. (along w/the pitiful past 8 years) and the Congress are only the latest results of the current system, but also realizing a few new elections COULD cure THOSE ills, what "new Guards" will you provide against future steps towards tyranny?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

66. I guess I'm old-fashioned...

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
President Thomas Jefferson

I'd like to have a House of Representatives made up of citizens - not professional politicians - which acts on behalf of other citizens from a given district.

I'd like to see USA Patriot Acts 1 and 2 repealed and the 4th Amendment restored, with secret warrants like FISA reviewed. (The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) of 1978 is a U.S. federal law prescribing procedures for the physical and electronic surveillance.)

I'd like to see the president and vice=president tried for "High Crimes and Misdemeanors"

4th Amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I'm old-fashioned with my music too:

Won't Get Fooled Again Lyrics
Artist: The Who

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that' all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss