High Schooler Spars With Rove Over Gay Marriage

[Hissyspit]

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/12/high-schooler-spars-with-rove-over-gay-marriage

High schooler spars with Rove over gay marriage.

During his controversial speech at New England prep school Choate Rosemary Hall yesterday, former Bush adviser Karl Rove was challenged by a student “to explain how giving gay people the right to marry would endanger other people.” Rove dodged answering her at first, saying that the issue “should be resolved by a legislature or a referendum, not a court.” But the student, Choate senior Marla Spivak, continued to press him:

Spivak kept pressing. “You never actually answered, how does it threaten anyone?” she asked.

Rove asked, what’s the compelling reason to throw out 5,000 years of understanding the institution of marriage as between a man and a woman?

What, Spivak countered, was the compelling reason for society to allow interracial relationships when they had once been outlawed.

Then Rove invoked the Declaration of Independence before Spivak interjected that its reference to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” seemed to support her claims.

Eventually, Rove wiggled out of the debate by asking Spivak “when she planned to run for political office.”

[fenriswolf]

1. Great one.

[caseycoon]

3. YES! Youth rules!

I'm 66 so I can say that! LOL!
YAY MARLA!
:yourock:

[GodlessBiker]

2. You go, Marla! What a firebrand. Gotta love her.

[izquierdista]

4. Ignoramus

The "institution" of marriage was something created by the Catholic Church in years from 1000 to 1200 to (a) wangle their way into power over ordinary people's lives and (b) gain power over the royalty, since they could dictate what was a legal marriage with God's blessing and what wasn't. Not that the royalty gave up easily, what king wants to have the same old ball-and-chain, when he could have several to keep himself amused? Rove is creating his own history here if he spouts the line that monogamous marriage is the predominant form of male/female relationship throughout history.

[riderinthestorm]

10. I believe I actually read that there were (are) Native American tribes with same sex marriages

Perhaps someone has a link, I believe I read it here on DU?

That would mean America's earliest history supported same sex marriage.

[Warpy]

14. There are. There are also some tribes with homophobic law

Depends on the tribe.

There have been Christian ceremonies in the past uniting same sex couples, although it was never called marriage. It was just the recognition of a special and longstanding relationship that promoted a same sex partner into sort of a relative, basically what marriage now does for hetero couples.

In any case, it's irrelevant what was done in the past. We have a body of law in this country extending the benefits and protections of civil law to all of us. That means the body of law that promotes an unrelated person to first degree relative, and that's marriage, whatever weasel words we're forced to call it to placate the bluenosed, pursed lipped fundies.

Personally, I can't understand why any sane person would want to marry except to gain access to the ICU in case one of them gets sick or the right to plan the funeral if one of them dies. However, if they do, all of them should be able to, no matter what the plumbing arrangements of consenting adults might be.

[riderinthestorm]

29. Oh, I agree with all of your points

I've often said that someday those people who blocked same sex marriage will be viewed as bigots in the same way as those who blocked interracial marriage, integrated schools etc. It's definitely a civil rights issue and someday the courts will have to recognize it.

I was just addressing the whole "5000 years of tradition" bullshit....

Whose traditions are more important? is the obvious question when freepers and sophmoric thinkers try that line of tired bigotry....

[tavalon]

41. Certificate of Insurability (that's what it's called in my circles)

Get universal health care and I'm totally on board. Honestly, the government never should have gotten involved with this, it's an obvious mixture of church and state.

I have no respect for the "institution of marriage" but then the government has no respect for the manner in which I choose to conduct my relationships so I guess were even.

[Siyahamba]

24. Two Spirited Peoples

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit

[NMMNG]

30. Same-sex marriage was also observed in ancient Europe,

Asia, Africa and even North America. The notion that marriage has always been between a man and a woman is patently false and a concoction of the RRRW bigots.

[DCKit]

44. Same sex marriage was a recognized institution in Egypt until the British outlawed it...

and now the fundamentalists are in charge and ALL sex is filthy dirty. Just like it is here.

On Edit:

And Kudos to a smart kid who knows grade A bullshit when she smells it and isn't afraid to argue with a hypocrite, despite his lofty position.

We can only hope there are many more like her coming out of that school and that they will use their intelligence and wit for the good of society.

[NMMNG]

45. Funny how the spread of Christianity heralded the imposition

of puritan nonsense like homophobia and the like on society after society. Evangelism is a cancer.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Had she directed the same questions to Clinton or Obama, she would have gotten the same equivocation

AND she would have been denounced here on DU with much thunder and lightning. :eyes:

[EFerrari]

11. That may be true but we can celebrate the small scores.

I have to or I couldn't get out of bed in the morning.

[Johonny]

6. seems like most Rove ideas

are about at the grade school level of thinking, so it's easy to see why he'd have such trouble in high school. Doesn't this girl understand gay people are icky. I guess she has cooties, so she just doesn't get it.

[Irishonly]

7. Good For Marla Spivak

Whoo Hoo When I read comments and stories about our youth I get such a feeling of pride.

[EFerrari]

8. That's tremendous!:

:woohoo:

[Politicub]

9. If she ever does run for national office, Spivak already has my support!

:kick:

[xchrom]

12. recommend

[FunkyLeprechaun]

13. My friend went to Choate

He came out of Choate a conservative, believing women had their place in the home not work (right in front of his doctor mother).

Then he moved to the UK and now he's liberal. I don't know who he supports in the election though.

[Squatch]

15. Is there a video of this exchange?

[Hepburn]

16. Way to go, Marla! A K&R for you!

:applause:

[Olney Blue]

17. Spivak for president!

Way to go.

[VenusRising]

18. Good for her!!

It's about time someone standed up to Rove.

:applause: Marla, :yourock:

[bigbrother05]

19. I hope she got a

standing ovation

[karlrschneider]

20. Rove isn't the only one who can't answer that question.

Other than falling back on "tradition" the bigots have nothing. I like to ask fundy homophobes "What exactly did Jesus have to say about it?"

[TechBear_Seattle]

23. I would like to ask our candidates that question

Both Clinton and Obama are on formal record as strongly opposing equal marriage.

[karlrschneider]

25. Which is one reason I don't like either of them much more than McCain.

:shrug:

Huckleberry is about as big an asshole as is possible for a human to be but I gotta give him credit for one thing: he doesn't equivocate...he comes right out and says what (I presume) he thinks.

[tanyev]

21. Marla rocks!

:yourock:

[Peace Patriot]

22. "When you gonna run for office, little lady, so I can 'swift-boat' you, and

smear you as a lover of Osama bin Laden, and get my buds at Diebold/ES&S to 'disappear' your votes, and, if that and more doesn't work, there's always your small plane falling out of the sky on a clear day with no wind. Heh-heh."

I'm not sure I could have been as sane, as calm, as persistent and as reasonable as this remarkable young person in the same circumstance. It would too enrage me that a war criminal shill, and destroyer of democracy, like Rove, is treated as an honored guest anywhere in this country. My response would likely have been juvenile (mooning him?). But boy am I proud of Ms. Spivak that she took the high road, and she slew the dragon with reason!

Kudos and laurel wreaths to the next generation!

And, believe me, the great peace-minded, justice-minded, progressive American majority is alive and well, and at last emerging from this dark period of disempowerment and disenfranchisement, having amazingly withstood eight years and more of relentless, 24/7 warmongering and fascist propaganda, and stolen elections: Rove pre-writing the election narratives, with items like anti-gay rights initiatives, and Diebold/ES&S writing the "trade secret" programming code to make them come true.

From my perspective of my sixth decade of this goddamned crap, starting with the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King, I say poop and piss on Rove and his ilk. My sentence on them: they must spend the remainder of their lives in community service cleaning bedpans in veterans' hospitals, up to their elbows in the horrors that they have created. Reason ain't in it. I've seen too much. But I can appreciate reason--and hugely admire it--when it stands up, with Excalibur in its hand, and pierces the ugly facade of one of these monstrous oppressors.

Congressional medal of honor to Maria Spivak! May the mighty sword of truth ever shine!

[Javaman]

26. Yet he still didn't answer the question. typical of the "genius".

his only "genius" is his ability to not answer questions.

Funny how the "genius" also gets outwitted by a highschooler.

[Chovexani]

27. You go girl!

:yourock:

Unka KKKarl isn't used to answering tough questions, heh.

[plantwomyn]

28. Marla Spivak is my hero.

nt

[NMMNG]

31. He couldn't come up with an answer, as the bigots never can

Because there isn't one. Same-sex marriage will not "threaten" or harm opposite-sex marriage in any way. That's a lie concocted by the RRRW to galvanize their base against LGBT people.

Rove dodged answering her at first, saying that the issue “should be resolved by a legislature or a referendum, not a court.”

Funny, because in CA people are squawking that the legislature (which has twice approved same-sex marriage ) shouldn't be deciding what to shove down the throats of the entire state, and that it should be turned over to the judges. In other words, the bigots just want to run the show no matter what.

[ElboRuum]

32. Marla has set an example here...

Of course, I wouldn't have let him out so easily. My response to Rove's query would be a smile and this statement:

"Not at this time, as the current state of politics, of which you seem to be an integral part, would be a source of debasement to me. Perhaps, once our political system is cleaned of hacks like yourself, I may reconsider."

[Canuckistanian]

33. Pretty sad to lose a debate with a High School student

And be exposed as nothing but a plain, garden-variety homophobe.

Rove might as well give aways all his assets and live in a trailer park.

They're all he's got left, intellectually.

[tsuki]

47. Funny how Unka Karl can lose a debate to a high school student, but

can run over the million dollar celebrity hosts of three infotainment channels.

[Marr]

34. Oh, right- the "genius", Karl Rove.

He's the most overrated man of the last 100 years.

[Yavin4]

37. Yes, The Political Genius Just Got Shredded by a High School Girl In Public

Recall that he was supposed to usher in a 50 year run of Republican rule. Ha!

[HughBeaumont]

35. Pigshit fails yet again.

And you wouldn't be "throwing out 5000 years of understanding", Pigshit. You would be only slightly redefining it. And why not? If your dominionist viewpoint can exist, why not a progressive one? That's life. Perceptions change and get redefined.

Kids from the age of 4 are taught that T-Rexes were fierce predators; fast-on-their-legs hunters and the most feared of all dinosaurs. However, in the past decade or so, there's been compelling evidence that T-Rexes were actually scavengers with mediocre eyesight whose bodies weren't equipped for hunting like a Velociraptor and were also rather clumsy plodders, contrary to what was on display in the movie Jurassic Park (whose main dino was a Cretaceous 'saur!). Thanks to their large olfactories, they were pretty much overgrown vultures.

Can't even get his damned talking points straight.

[Yavin4]

36. Rove wiggled out of the debate by asking Spivak “when she planned to run for political office.”

Rove: I'll swiftboat your ass, Missy. I'm gonna do the opp research right now.

[Popol Vuh]

38. What a tool Rove is

"...what’s the compelling reason to throw out 5,000 years of understanding the institution of marriage as between a man and a woman"?

Ahh......the same as throwing out 5,000 years of slavery?

:shrug:

[varelse]

39. Eventually, Rove wiggled out of the debate by asking Spivack

“when she planned to run for political office.”

ok NOW I have some hope for change here in America :P

Go Marla Go!!!! See his facetious remark and raise him an election he can't RIP OFF! yesss

[AAARRRGGGHHH]

40. Awesome job, Marla!

:yourock:

[progressoid]

42. Good God. A high school student has a better grasp of this than most adults

and cetainly better than the politicians we elect.

[Squeegee]

43. It's no surprise really

The right-wing position on gay marriage is a pretty weak one. Even they can't defend their position.

[Usrename]

46. pwn3d

by a young lass

with courage to speak out