Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Torture always comes home-"Techniques of this war are likely to show up in a neighborhood near you"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 12:50 PM
Original message
Torture always comes home-"Techniques of this war are likely to show up in a neighborhood near you"
Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 12:54 PM by kpete
Six Questions for Darius Rejali, Author of ‘Torture and Democracy’
DEPARTMENT
BY Scott Horton
PUBLISHED February 13, 2008

Reed College Professor Darius Rejali is one of the world’s leading thinkers and writers on the subject of torture and the consequences of its use for modern society. Princeton University Press has just published his magisterial study of torture and how it has developed as a social and moral issue through the last century. Rejali tracks the question in many different settings and societies–from the French colonial wars to totalitarian states in the mid-twentieth century, down to America in the Age of George W. Bush. I put six questions to Rejali about his book and its relevance to the current debate in the United States.

...................

Yes, torture does migrate, and there are some good examples of it both in American and French history. The basic idea here is that soldiers who get ahead torturing come back and take jobs as policemen, and private security, and they get ahead doing the same things they did in the army. And so torture comes home. Everyone knows waterboarding, but no one remembers that it was American soldiers coming back from the Philippines that introduced it to police in the early twentieth century. During the Philippine Insurgency in 1902, soldiers learned the old Spanish technique of using water tortures, and soon these same techniques appeared in police stations, especially throughout the South, as well as in military lockups during World War I. Likewise, the electrical techniques used in Vietnam appeared in the 1960s appeared in torturing African Americans on the south side of Chicago in the 1970s and 1980s, and, as I argue in the book, that wasn’t just an accident.

Torture always comes home. And the techniques of this war are likely to show up in a neighborhood near you. Likewise, the techniques that appeared in the War on Terror were already documented in INS lockups in Miami in the 1990s. There is no bright line between domestic and foreign torture; the stuff circulates.

Yes, I am opposed to two track systems, where one group of people can torture and the other people can’t. And it is not hard to understand why. Suppose you’re an interrogator who is not allowed to use some technique, but the guy from the Other Governmental Agency can. What is more, you believe that these techniques work. So why should you be stuck using techniques that are slow and time consuming, when the guy from the OGA can get good results and win all the glory? Aren’t you just an idiot for sticking to the rules? Of course not, and so torture will spread, and that slippery slope is a lot slicker in counterinsurgency conflicts than in domestic policing, as I show in the book.

There are good reasons to believe that whatever these “enhanced techniques are” they will seep into other agencies and organizations. And since many of these techniques leave no marks, it will be impossible to prove that they were even used. We saw this pattern in Iraq and Afghanistan, where soldiers reported having learned their interrogation techniques by imitating CIA field officers.

more at:
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002387
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes.
And the secret prison systems, and the removal of habeus corpus and the search and seizure routine....this is preparing the populace for martial law and the fascist shift is well underway.

This will not be used only on "them," and there is a very small window of opportunity to get them back, before the whole system teeters and falls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Torture already has come home. In fact it never left.
http://www.historiansagainstwar.org/resources/torture/brucefranklin.html

The use of sex and sexual humiliation as torture in Abu Ghraib and the other American prisons in Iraq is endemic to the American prison. Psychological and physical sexual torture is exacerbated by the underlying policy of denying prisoners any volitional sex, making the only two forms of sexual activity that are physically possible--homosexuality and masturbation--both offenses subject to punishment. Strip searches, including invasive and often intentionally painful examination of the mouth, anus, testicles, and vagina, frequently accompanied by verbal or physical sexual abuse, are part of the daily routine in most prisons. A 1999 Amnesty International report documented the commonplace rape of prisoners by guards in women's prisons.(2)

Each year, numerous prisoners are maimed, crippled, and even killed by guards. Photographs could be taken on any day in the American prison system that would match the photographs from Abu Ghraib that shocked the public. Indeed, actual pictures from prisons in America have shown worse atrocities than those pictures from the American prisons in Iraq. For example, no photos of American abuse of Iraqi prisoners have yet equaled the pictures of dozens of prisoners savagely and mercilessly tortured by guards and state troopers in the aftermath of the 1971 Attica rebellion.(3) Even more appalling images are available in the documentary film Maximum Security University about California's state Corcoran Prison. For years at Corcoran, guards set up fights among prisoners, bet on the outcome, and then often shot the men for fighting, seriously wounding at least 43 and killing eight just in the period 1989-1994. The film features official footage of five separate incidents in which guards, with no legal justification, shoot down and kill unarmed prisoners.(4)

But if the tortures practiced in American prisons are so commonplace, then why, one might reasonably ask, did those pictures from Abu Ghraib evoke such an outcry? The answer to this critical question lies in the history of the American prison and how the prison functions in contemporary culture.

Prior to the American Revolution, imprisonment was seldom used as punishment for crime in England and was rarer still in its American colonies. The main punishments under England's notorious "Bloody Code" were executions and various forms of physical torture--whipping, the stocks, the pillory, branding, mutilation, castration, etc.--all designed as spectacles to be witnessed by the public. The prison system, in contrast, institutionalizes isolation and secrecy. The prison's walls are designed not only to keep the prisoners in but to keep the public out, thus preventing observation or knowledge of what is going on inside. Unknowable to all but prisoners and guards, the prison thus becomes a physical site where the most unspeakable torture can continue without any restraint. And as an unknowable place, the prison can thus also become a prime site for cultural fantasy.


Emphasis mine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Wow.
That's all, just WOW.

Thanks for posting this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. In fact the wardens who setup Abu Ghraib were former US wardens...
with histories of prisoner abuse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveFool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. fascinating read, K&R /nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. It has happened in my neighborhood already
http://www.chicagoreader.com/policetorture/050402/

Tools of Torture


Though he continues to deny it, Jon Burge tortured suspects while he was a Chicago police detective. Now his contemporaries from Vietnam reveal where he may have learned the tricks of his trade.

Police Torture in Chicago

By John Conroy

February 4, 2005

Editors' note: this story also contains "The Mysterious Third Device", which ran as a sidebar to the cover story on February 4, 2005



Q. While you were in Vietnam on that base camp did you ever hear of any torture that went on in that POW compound?

A. No, sir, I didn't.

Q. Never had any discussions about that that whole time you were there, is that right?

A. No. I was in the U.S. Army, counselor.

--from the cross-examination of Chicago police commander Jon Burge by People's Law Office attorney Flint Taylor, March 15, 1989

JON BURGE SEEMS to have begun abusing suspects not long after he became a Chicago police detective in 1972, but not until the late 80s was he cross-examined at length about his interrogation practices. Accused by convicted cop killer Andrew Wilson of torture, he testified fearlessly, presenting himself as guilty only of being a dedicated, resourceful policeman and an activist supervisor. He said he often stood at the door of interrogation rooms, listening to his detectives question suspects, and never saw any abuse.

Wilson had shot two officers dead in February 1982, and Burge worked five days straight to track him down, never going home. When Wilson was finally located, hiding in a west-side apartment, Burge was first at the door, attacking it with lock picks, tools rarely held by policemen. "I used a single-digit rake and tension bar," he explained in a 1988 deposition.

After his conviction, Wilson sued the city, saying he'd been tortured by Burge and detectives under his command. He wasn't the first former suspect to make this accusation, and scores have been uncovered since. Wilson said Burge wired him up to a black box and turned a crank that generated an electric shock. This technique bore a striking resemblance to what American troops in Vietnam called "the Bell telephone hour"--shocking prisoners by means of a hand-cranked army field phone. In defending himself against Wilson's suit he said he'd never seen a black box, and though he'd served as a military policeman in the Mekong delta in 1968 and '69 had never heard of field phone interrogations. He bristled at the suggestion that Americans in Vietnam had conducted them.

Burge's peers from the Ninth Military Police Company, however, remember such torture in considerable detail.

JON GRAHAM BURGE was born on December 20, 1947. In 1989 he told the Reader that his father had a blue-collar job with the phone company and that his mother, a sometime model, wrote a fashion column for the Chicago Daily News, organized fashion shows, and once wrote a book in the "dress for success" vein. The family lived in a modest duplex at 9612 S. Luella in Merrionette Manor, an all-white postwar housing development on the southeast side.

Burge attended Luella Public School, now called Robert H. Lawrence after the first African-American astronaut, and Bowen High School, graduating in 1965. Yearbooks show he was active with the fire marshals and in the Key Club, a service organization that collected more than 900 cans of food for poor South Chicago families in 1964. Burge's primary interest, however, seems to have been the school's Reserve Officer Training Corps. snip

In those days, American men who flunked out of college faced serious consequences--the end of their student draft deferments. While Burge labored as a stock clerk, American troops were dying in Vietnam at a rate of 477 per month. In June 1966 Burge enlisted in the army reserve, committing himself to six years of service, including two on active duty. In a form filed that fall, shortly before he reported for basic training at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, he indicated that he had been promised law enforcement duties. His eventual goal, he would testify in a 1989 deposition, was to join the Chicago Police Department.

Army records describe the 18-year-old recruit as red-haired, blue-eyed, six feet two inches tall, 210 pounds, a member of the Congregational Church, interested in cars and baseball. After basic training, he and 98 other soldiers spent four weeks at Fort McClellen's drill corporal school in Alabama (only one other student scored better than Burge did in the course) and eight weeks at a military police school in Georgia. He became a trainer of MPs and then served as an MP in Korea, gathering five letters of appreciation from superiors that praised his loyalty, devotion to duty, outstanding performance, military bearing, appearance, attention to detail, tact, and extra effort. On June 18, 1968, with antiwar sentiment escalating back home and city officials bracing for what would be a violent Democratic convention, Burge volunteered for Vietnam. He arrived there in November as a sergeant.

BURGE WAS ASSIGNED to the Ninth Military Police Company of the Ninth Infantry Division. He reported to division headquarters, which had moved three months earlier to a barren 600-acre island that the army had created from marshland about 50 miles southwest of Saigon. General William Westmoreland, commander of American forces in Vietnam, had named the base Dong Tam, which meant "united hearts and minds." The delta region was a maze of rivers, canals, and streams subject to seasonal flooding, and among its rice fields, swamps, rubber plantations, and dense jungle were more than 1,600 hamlets. More than 15,000 troops were assembled there, many of them moving around by boat.

According to operational reports filed in 1969, there were also 3,500 Vietnamese civilians working on the base, a fair number of them of suspect allegiance.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. When will they bring back "Trial by Ordeal"????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Vicious cycle that has been going on for a long while now
:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. This was one of my major objections to starting the war in Iraq
Once you put people in to horrible situations where they are forced to observe and take part in war's horrors, that stuff just doesn't get put back into the box easily. It goes home and engenders tragedy after tragedy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. Torture Roosts In Pelosi's House And Reid's Senate
Where each day begins with the choice NOT to act to stop it -- in violation of our treaty obligations and core American values.

Only Impeachment can begin to Redeem Our National Soul.

It is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. Cheryl Welsh is a United Nations recognized expert on "non-lethal weapons",
she is a human rights activist against tactics and technologies that target the human nervous system, she is the founder of Mind Justice.org.

Cheryl Welsh credits and extensively cites University of Wisconsin Professor Alfred McCoy with the "discovery" of what is called "no touch" torture in her latest work.

"After the horrific pictures of prisoners being tortured at Abu Ghraib were displayed in front pages of newspapers around the world, the United States maintained that the U.S. government does not torture; Abu Ghraib was about a few bad officers.

Evidence now proves that CIA 'no touch' torture and worse were ordered by the executive branch and approved by top military officers. Surprisingly, this scandal has much in common with another national security issue, neuroweapons, commonly referred to as mind control."

That is the introduction to Cheryl Welsh's January 2008 work at Mind Justice which is linked below.

"In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom: CIA 'no touch' torture makes sense out of mind control allegations" by Cheryl Welsh (January 2008)
http://www.mindjustice.org/wisdom.htm

It used to be a beautiful day in the neighborhood...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. I've been concerned about this for some time...
as well as the likelihood that, aside from other psychological problems, this war would unleash the psychopathic and sadistic tendencies of many who never would have gone over otherwise. It's a given that police service holds an attraction to these personality types, but the illegal police action in Iraq is going to expand the pool of dangerous recruits far beyond anything ever seen.

A recent personal experience with the inner workings of our police state has given me a whole new understanding of the "Don't Snitch" culture the police and MSM have been railing against. Were the MSM reporting the incidents and the casualties that make "those people" fear the police, everyone would be clamoring for change and accountability. For every wheelchair dumping, police dog attack, abuse of skateboarders or Death by Taser incident, how many others go unreported?

I always thought the idea of camera equipped cellphones was completely insane, but now I'm thinking every citizen should be given one, that all police cars (and carts) should be so equipped and that every police officer should be required to wear one. What else have we got to protect what's left of our Civil Rights but exposure and moral outrage?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
15. Didn't the Abu Gareb torturers learn it as prison guards?
It was said a long time ago that Lyndee England and the other torturers at Abu Gareb were police and prison guards in civilian life before they joined the military. Our torture has been around for a long time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. From LBN: the Decider is going to veto the Senate's ban on "harsh
interrogation"

JUST LIKE THE NAZIS...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC