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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 01:24 PM
Original message
Empathy Domination and the bully
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 01:34 PM by undergroundpanther

"Tragically, one of the rarest commodities in our culture is empathy. People are hungry for empathy, They don't know
how to ask for it." Marshall B. Rosenberg, Ph. D.
http://www.nwcompass.org/empathic_listening.html

So what is interfering with our empathy? The fact we live under a system of domination,Daily we are hurt by misdirected domination,and the toxic personalties and bullies among us.

They say that the language we grow up with prepares us for the society that we are going to live in. Our language of judging, advising, criticizing, manipulating, "shoulding" etc, is one of coercion, control, and domination, of the many by the few in power, creating a hierarchical system, otherwise known as a domination system. The language spoken in such a system is designed to keep us obedient, docile and separate from each other and thereby powerless.

The language we speak reinforces the truth we live in a society dominated and run by bullies.

So people feel
Powerless to stand up and become the kind of culture WE want to be!! We await a leader to give us permission to stand up we have become so accustomed to living in a domination system it has become almost invisible to most people..

From day one we are taught we are to be Powerless to stop the psychopaths narcissists, authoritarians and bullies all around us who are abusing power,trust,organizations, contracts, and people everyday.

WE are taught to believe and therefore act as if we are Powerless to expose all the criminal shit in the government and corporation ,clean out the thugs,and haul all these monsters to prison together.RIGHT NOW.

We are taught to accept things that if thought about would be very unfair like powerless to tell our boss we need a break,for fear of being laid off.. Or powerless to tell a creditor charging 25% interest to fuck off that is usury you corporate pig,For instance?

Domination systems......

Marshall Rosenberg describes a domination system as follows:

"...By systems I mean governments, organizations, institutions that regulate human affairs. In his books, The Powers That Be and Engaging the Powers, theologian Walter Wink talks about domination systems being ones in which a few people control to their own advantage. In domination systems you have to train people to think in ways that support the system, so they fit the system.

Domination systems require:

1 Suppression of self

2 Moralistic judgments

3 Amtssprache (This expression was used by Nazi officials to describe a bureaucratic language that denies choice, with words like: should, have to, ought.)


4 The crucial concept of deserve"

(DU posts have argued over this "deserve" mentality regarding issues of poverty and obesity and a few other topics in the most vicious blaming ways that I'd expect to see out of the right wing)
Why is that? Who deserves? Who's entitled? All? Or all of us who don't use it to abuse the rest of us maybe?

http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/nvc/domination.html
http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/discouragement/words.html


Nonviolent language Works on people who have a conscience what about those who do not have one? They don't respond like you or I.
To a psychopath non violent language is seen as permission to inflict MORE harm to the targeted person!!
With authoritarian,narcissistic and psychopathic personalities you must learn to use the language of domination on them ONLY for they need limits to be IMPOSED on them and their behaviors and words contained by other people like us. For the toxic personality has no limiting force inside themselves (a conscience) that will before,warn them through empathy and shame,and after the fact through remorse shame or guilt tell them that some things are harmful to do to others and wrong..Toxic personalities ARE different than us they lack a conscience, and so must be treated and spoken to asa person who will harm if given freedom to do so.
http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/spath.htm
http://www.bullyeq.com/

How non violence fails with bullies.
http://suicideandmentalhealthassociationinternational.org/overcom.html
http://ticklebug.typepad.com/trials_and_turbulations/2005/02/bullies_suicide.html

In sum, nonviolence only works when your opponent has a **conscience or has lost the will to resort to violence.**
(learned helplessness)
In Burma, Zimbabwe, Tibet, the Darfur region of Sudan and China the authorities have shown that they have no problem with using violence to remain in power. Against an armed opponent who is willing to use violence, one has a choice: fight or die.

http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1119285037.shtml

http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/nvc/domination.html

“Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it.” – John Lennon

Civilized people, we are told, live peacefully and cooperatively with their fellows, sharing the necessary labour in order to obtain the leisure to develop arts and sciences. And while that would be a good idea, it is not a good description of what has been going on in the so-called advanced cultures during the past 8,000 years.

Civilization, as we know it, is largely the creation of psychopaths. All civilizations, our own included, have been based on slavery and “warfare.” Incidentally, the latter term is a euphemism for mass murder

All of this psychopathic behavior at the top of the social hierarchy is simply too shameful for ordinary people to see, so they avert their gaze, just as wives of husbands who are sexually abusing their children sometimes refuse to see what is happening in plain view.
http://dailyscare.com/2961/twilight-of-the-psychopaths
http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/27428/

Privileged people say that community is created through loving one another, through sharing food and doing things together. Many of the disenfranchised have another story to tell. For them, community begins with bathing the world in hatred.

My answer to this intractable situation,begins with,Educating yourself and others about abuse, about psychopathy authoritarians,narcissism, trauma, getting as many people as possible to know the patterns, see the games they play. To learn from those harmed by bullies,To give and accept empathy,learn to not by stand during incidents of abuse be it verbal or physical,to risk standing up, and supporting those who do in every way they need , to defy domination,speak in non violent terms to people with a conscience, and to be humble when you make a mistake,and than build your confidence and start to bathe the psychopath in hatred,bathe the bully in fists, deny these toxic people a target to abuse,And FIGHT, fight until psychopaths cannot get away with ANYTHING... Eventually people who have a conscience will and can rebuild a living empathic and strong boundaries community and heal from the damage done for generations by those without a conscience and their dominance systems.. Bathe the abusers in hatred, limit them, dominate them,cut them down until they can do no more harm, and can't get away with it...



And yes we must heal ourselves by loving those who are not toxic personalities,empathizing back and forth with each other,using non violent speech,respect, letting non harmful people be who they are, supporting the traumatized,learning about psychopathy and domination from their experiences and stories and educating each other and ourselves about domination and bullies .

To do this we must separate conscientious people from the ones with no conscience. Admitting there is a stark DIFFERENCE inside some people's personalities that makes them dangerous to us is the first step.

For as we care for some, we also have to accept and learn to stop caring. We must learn to not care about those with psychopath patterns and behaviors that abuse others.

We together, must contain the psychopathy going on around us in every form it takes.We have to stand up,speak up,share and take no shit.
Shutting down the domination system starts with shutting it down inside our own thinking,and our words, than by helping others shut it down..And the ripples of perceptions will change and we all will become aware and spread what can be. It will flow from us all like pond ripples of thoughts moving through lives until we learn to be free again.

Destruction of a domination system, does not begin by following a leader,that charms us with promises and speeches to end the domination system,when this leader is part of that system and benefits from that system..

Change begins by knowing yourself and knowing what you want and who the enemies of humanity are and hating them with your whole heart,regardless of what anyone still in the domination system says....Anger and hatred have a very specific uses,to free us from tyrants,psychopaths, bullies and domination!!!Rage, anger,and violence, they have a real important purpose,they exist for a reason,yet in the domination system we are taught to deny it suppress it and even demonize it and pretend we do not feel it.. yet we do,and we sit on it.We tolerate too much injustice.


This rage suppression and rage misdirection is a manipulation. It keeps us in denial,fighting each other and helpless to help ourselves or each other be free of psychopathy and psychopaths and the domination system they made..

Eventually we must face the fact either we must become willing to fight to be free of domination, or remain subjects.What kind of trauma will it take to say you have had enough of this shit? Each one of us..Has to ask this question and make our solution.


And the non violent must face the answer they don't want to face,rage violence it has a purpose..We all will have to face it. We can die slaves complicit in our servitude or we can start fighting the domination,and do what it takes to contain these toxic personalities and dismantle the domination systems they made to keep us servile ,obedient and helpless forever.

We must learn and protect each other to save ourselves and each other,from abuses of power and the people who abuse.
Even if it means wiping the authoritarian,narcissist and psychopaths among us off the face of the planet.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let's begin with the people with whom we have direct contact any/every day.
When you see or hear someone perpetuating domination and bullying, in ANY situation, it IS appropriate to politely express concern about whatever observable behavior is the instrument of abuse.

Address what's going on, even if it is "conflictual" to do so, AND ***model*** and actively promote respectful, egalitarian, problem-solving behaviors, especially communication behaviors.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. YES!!!
Stand up if a boss is trying to do something illegal or wrong at work, don't stifle your desire to confront them for being an asshole.
Tell them they are doing wrong,or hurting someone and to STOP IT.

The bullies may escalate the threats, seeing a challenge to their dominance.Face them tell the truth,and NEVER lower your eyes or be silenced!!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks very much for your OP; it's very stimulating. I will save the link.
Even small interventions will add up eventually. It might be a bit harder to address domination and bullying when it's your friend and she's being mean to a waitress, for e.g., but I REALLY believe that if you honestly want to be gentle and respectful in how you say what needs to be said, the other person may be embarassed at first (so it's best to keep it low-key and as private as possible in some cases), but if your attitude and temperament are genuinely peaceful, people will hear you and think about it, even if they run away from it at first.
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Underground panther, this is brilliant. bookmarked for when I can check the links!
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 01:39 PM by Bongo Prophet
how timely this is, as I have been pondering such issues while analyzing the structural and cultural psychology of GDP.

Check out this thread if you have the time, and consider when manipulation, insecurity, class, misinterpretation all collide into some strange nebulae of broken discourse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4584614

Let me know what you think - you have given me much to consider.
thank you for that, and happy valentine's day!
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks!
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 01:50 PM by undergroundpanther
I will check your link out.I gotta split pretty soon and hit my bank and pay the electric bill,and get some grout to fix a couple of tiles in the bathroom, while the warmth of the day permits.

I hate sliding around on fucking ice,my knees are a pathetic mess. So I gotta go soon I will bookmark the thread go back and give you my thoughts later ok.

...
People reaching, people touching
A real celebration
Waiting for us all
If we want it, really want it
Can you dig it (yes, I can)
And I've been waiting such a long time
For the day....

Lurve, :loveya:
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. You are right on it!!
Post # 127. Damn, jackson_dem, did you even read my post to you about how marginalizing name calling is?


There you SAW the game,you called it right on the head..laid it bare for..All to see. But did they HEAR?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4584614

This is a variation of flamebait, and prior to internet, was used by flimflam artists, or grifters.
Picked up by college republicans, in a long tradition of Segretti, Atwater, Rove, Norquist.
They play on human nature's dark side. Class resentment is as subconscious and predictable as any other form of sublimated hate.Race, sex, gender, greed, age, class, and so on.

Think dollar bill on the street.
think getting bumped into and distracted, then your wallet gets nabbed...Think Volleyball. One hit, then setup, then slam.

As stated in an earlier post, there are two examples of just this particular thing in the last couple of hours.
there was another with the same story and reaction set a few days ago. I was one of the "outragees" - since I am very class sensitive, I fell for it myself! SUCKER!

We are being played people. By whom? I would have to have IP addresses to get more info, but we are being played.
Outrage fanning is a common trick.
"You and him fight" -and who is standing by watching, or encouraging?

*(and that is why every bully has a posse of willing"agents" to do his bidding.) For if a bully had to do it alone he surely would be caught and his game stopped.)*


Pull back from an advocacy position, and look at this board like a psyops expert, then a criminal investigator of fraud.

*(Having emotional detachment is VITAL in situations of abuse if you are to see the patterns laid out by bullies and attack the right target(s)!!)*

Great analysis!!Bongo Prophet!! Let's hope the engineered outraged notice they've been had.

You said "
I guess empathy cannot be taught. Nor can manners."
http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/ethics.papers.s00/paper4.html
And even plato knew this to be true. That virtue cannot be taught. It is innate.
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/timewarp/plato.html
The actual text of Meno
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/meno.html

"Note the patterns of outrage, and the ebb and flow of it.
Like music.Like someone's playing our prejudices and class assumptions like a fucking fiddle."

Exactly when more people stop trying to dominate and more people get aware, than maybe the fiddle playing will stop.

Conscience, remember, is the interior witness to principles which are the same for all. But if they are the same for all, then how can mine clash with yours? You understand the dilemma? According to one story, there can be a clash but it is not conscientious; according to the other, there is a conscience but its convictions cannot clash.

This is a very old riddle, and it was both posed and solved, if you will believe me, in the later middle ages. We are all accustomed to distinguishing between the conscious and subconscious mind. Well, the Scholastic philosophers did not put it that way, but they made a similar distinction. They had two words for conscience, not just one, reflecting a real difference between two aspects of the mind. For conscience in the sense in which we have been speaking, they used a late Greek word, synderesis. Besides synderesis, though, there is conscience in another sense, which they called conscientia. Forgive me, but you must remember these definitions. Synderesis is the interior witness to universal basic moral law, the deep structure of moral reasoning, and it cannot err. Conscientia is the surface structure of moral reasoning, the working out of applications and conclusions from the universal basic moral law, and it can err. In fact it can err in at least four different ways: through insufficient experience; through insufficient skill in reasoning; through inattention; or through the perversion of reasoning - - a broad category including perversion by passion, by corrupt habit, by corrupt custom, by congenitally impaired disposition, by depraved ideology, and by self-deception - - the latter corresponding to the case where we pretend to ourselves that we don't know what we really do know, either about the facts, or about the rule itself.


The obvious solution to the third cause of erroneous conscientia, inattention, is attention. The wisest ethical teachers and thinkers have not built elaborate deductive systems from flights of fancy like a presocial state of nature. Rather, they have appealed to everyday knowledge we already have but do not notice.

Read more...
http://www.consciencelaws.org/Examining-Conscience-Ethical/Ethical07.html
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. and we have NUMEROUS POPULAR reality programs TEACHING CHILDREN and others to lie, back stab to get
ahead.. to make premeditated contracts to purposefully betray others just to win top dog social positions.. sick bullshit.

WWF is even more despicable, cheating, brutality, pride winning thru bullying and brutality..to get the sexy slut and a belt buckle

worst is the gladiatorial brutality of the octagon fist brawls

this shit just keeps escalating
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Two kinds of culture
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 08:16 PM by undergroundpanther
A dominance based psychopath culture is clashing with a kinder culture that prefers peace,warmth and freedom.

I think when prominent bullies cry out for culture war they really mean that they are seeking to destroy or silence people who can feel empathy,to desensitize them ,to crush anyone who has an inner locus of control,and who are anti authoritarian, who have a conscience! For it is people of conscience whom are able to make boundaries and enforce these boundaries upon the conduct of psychopaths, rightfully so.
http://www.internetidiot.net/socially-dangerous-psychopathy-links.htm
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's what I keep telling people.
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 02:13 PM by backscatter712
In some cases, it's OK to hate.

It's OK to hate Bush. It's OK to hate Cheney. It's our defense system - our way of detecting and recognizing our enemies quickly so we can do what is necessary to fight them.

I don't even consider Bush or Cheney or his cronies to be human. I literally dehumanize them, in the psychological sense, and I do it deliberately.

They are monsters, made monsters by their psychopathy, and as far as I'm concerned, we are morally free to do whatever it takes to remove their ability to do harm to us.

I won't go into methods, as I don't want the Secret Service to be asking questions of me as to what I think about human garbage.

That's what bullies and psychopaths are. Human garbage. Dehumanize them. I consider them to be at best a subspecies of humanity, evolved to fill a niche as predators of human beings. Why should I give them an ounce of empathy?
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I agree with ya, Backscatter 100%
Some people you have to dehumanize because their cold bloodiness makes them inhuman in how they abuse others.The ability to empathize IS what makes US human,so logic goes if a person has no conscience which is the seat of empathy , than why do we bother to HUMANIZE them if what they do with the empathy they get from us is create more abuse and hurt more of us?
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. this isnt an accident, it is well known for decades that observing brutal violence physically
restructures the mind in order to deal with it, causing an emotional withdrawn from those actions..

in LA a group of Gang members in a car at an intersection, asked a woman in a wheel chair with cerebral palsy directions, who was mute, only able to move 2 fingers on one hand to operate the chair.. directions. she could only make guttural sounds and wobble her head they shot her 4 times, killing her.. because she "Disrespected' them.

this is a function of the "Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein. this is a must read book.. it describes in detail, 558 pages of which 92 are footnotes and index... this is the BOOK OF THE CENTURY. it isn't a pulp political rag.. it is an in-depth historical explanation of what is going on.. starting with 50's electro shock and frontal lobotomies ERASING BRAINS, evolving into an economic and political tool using corporate terrorism TO ERASE the NATIONAL IDENTITY of countries so corporatism can take over the world, repealing all the New Deal advances of our culture, releasing corporations on us with absolutely no restraints.

and historically this is reinforced by torturing anyone and everyone to death who might look like they dont like it.. the proving grounds were south America 70's/80's, Iraq today is a textbook example.."Shock" and ______.. the country is decimated, no money, no jobs, no food, no infrastructure..shit and rancid piss ankle deep in the streets, and you have to drink it to survive, dead bodies everywhere, total chaos.. neighbors turn against each other to survive. Falugha was raised to the ground with anyone left alive bombed with white phopherious..burned to bones in their clothes.. for resisting.

if you value freedom YOU BETTER READ THIS BOOK.. i cant explain how important it is.. you have to find out for your self..
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. This is number 1 on my to get list
I've read alot of excerpts. Good stuff..I really want this book .I'll get it next month..
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wow.... thank you for putting this out there in such uncompromising fashion...
You are dead on.

Please let this get the recognition it deserves.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R. (nt)
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RadioactiveCarrot Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is a great read!
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 03:42 PM by RadioactiveCarrot
Thanks!
The lack of empathy in our society has always confused me, since it's been replaced by and large, by avarice, apathy and burning anger. It's not a topic often touched upon.
Thanks again for posting this!
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Empathy for those of conscience alongside
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 07:33 PM by undergroundpanther
a furious burning anger and outrage directed at the toxic personalities is what's needed. To effectively deal with this two sided problem you can't negate one(empathy or anger) over the other. You got to be in touch with both and apply them to the appropriate people as situation requires.

Don't waste your compassion on a bully,and don't blame the victim of a bully for being wounded and expressing pain as if that is somehow offensive. And if that expression does not involve abuse of non-bully people consider that a sign of the targets conscience and comfort/protect them..Stand up if the bullies and bystanders are uncomfortable by your empathy,voice and defiance of the expected non-response or submission..As for bullies, fuck all of them.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. As usual, you rock!
:yourock:

This is awesome. I'm going to sit down and really go through it after dinner. The bit I've read through is spot-on. You really should write a book. :hug:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. Are you familiar with Ponerology? It goes hand in hand with this excellent thread.
:thumbsup:
"How could that be? In Political Ponerology , Andrzej Lobaczewski explains that clinical psychopaths enjoy advantages even in non-violent competitions to climb the ranks of social hierarchies. Because they can lie without remorse (and without the telltale physiological stress that is measured by lie detector tests) psychopaths can always say whatever is necessary to get what they want. In court, for example, psychopaths can tell extreme bald-faced lies in a plausible manner, while their sane opponents are handicapped by an emotional predisposition to remain within hailing distance of the truth. Too often, the judge or jury imagines that the truth must be somewhere in the middle, and then issues decisions that benefit the psychopath. As with judges and juries, so too with those charged with decisions concerning who to promote and who not to promote in corporate, military and governmental hierarchies. The result is that all hierarchies inevitably become top-heavy with psychopaths."
http://bodo.gnn.tv/blogs/26553/Twilight_of_the_Psychopaths
BHN
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Oh yeah
I have linked to ponerology alot! I think Ponerology is also linked on my blog too. I was talking about this stuff years ago,during usenet days,with a few of the people on-line. Who went on later to build web sites that I find are an incredible resources..
I link to Tim Field's awesome site and a few others regularly.
http://www.thefieldfoundation.org/
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I am familiar with that site!
I encountered a true bully a few years ago-
I had no idea that it was an actual field of study
until then.
VERY useful site, that one.

BHN
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. found another good site
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 08:32 PM by undergroundpanther
The Compensated Psychopath**

The famed Swiss psychiatrist Adolf Guggenbühl-Craig, Jungian author of The Emptied Soul, believes that many psychopaths (a.k.a. sociopaths) who walk among us are often those who hold upstanding positions in society. Adolf Guggenbühl-Craig calls them "compensated" psychopaths. Unfortunately, psychopathy showing up in places other than a prison or mental hospital is an extremely serious and all too common social problem, partly because just one compensated psychopath can so adversely affect the lives of so many unsuspecting, trusting people. These psychopaths can be economically and emotionally (if not physically) "socially dangerous" — capable of unbelievably appalling acts.

Good people are rarely suspicious: they cannot imagine others doing the things they themselves are incapable of doing; usually they accept the undramatic solution as the correct one, and let matters rest there. Then too, the normal are inclined to visualize the as one who's as monstrous in appearance as he is in mind, which is about as far from the truth as one could well get . . . These monsters of real life usually looked and behaved in a more normal manner than their actually normal brothers and sisters; they presented a more convincing picture of virtue than virtue presented of itself - just as the wax rosebud or the plastic peach seemed more perfect to the eye, more what the mind thought a rosebud or a peach should be, than the imperfect original from which it had been modeled."The majority of people and therefore workplaces are easy prey, because we still want to believe that people are inherently good. We don't really want to believe that such people exist." So it is that Dr. Hare, the world's best-known expert on the psychopath, concludes that the ultimate problem is — "Us!" (and he is RIGHT!!)
http://www.internetidiot.net/socially-dangerous-psychopathy-links.htm

How? I think these links explain part of it.

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/justworld.html
http://www.sociopathic.net/rants/justworld.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/rcip/invuln.html
http://wanderingether.blogspot.com/2007/11/bystander-apathy-discriminatory-enabler.html
people who see themselves as leadership material and hold leaders in high esteem are more likely to view leaders as having more responsibility for ethical decisions and behaviors than followers. Consequently, such persons when placed in a follower position may be more susceptible to commit crimes of obedience through the process of moral disengagement by displacing responsibility for their behavior onto the leader.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/167430596.html
(something the military teaches as do workplaces and everywhere the domination system operates.)
http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2007/04/obedience-and-evil-in-mcdonalds.html
A very interesting page..
Guy Debord’s The Society of the Spectacle..
http://www.bopsecrets.org/SI/debord/7.htm
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. THANKS! You are a gold mine of links on this topic! N/T
BHN:hi:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Almost forgot- K&R!
bhn
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. I've been posting on a couple of blogs that deal with local issues
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 08:31 PM by Lydia Leftcoast
and I'm appalled at the lack of empathy exhibited by some of the posters.

Our Dems are going to propose a single-payer health care option for the state, and you should see the reactions, things like:

If some of those people would just give up their cell phone contracts, they could afford health insurance.
(Tell me, oh wise one, where I can get even crappy health insurance for the price of a cell phone contract!)

We don't need health care. We use natural means to live healthy lives.
(Remember Adele Davis, one of the foremost advocates of organic foods, who died of bone cancer?)

I'm not going to have my taxes raised so that all the illegal immigrants can get health care.
(You'd rather they die in the streets? Yeah, you probably would.)

All we have to do is deregulate and use the free market so that people have the freedom to make their own health care decisions.
(And the free market has that effect exactly where?)

and so on and so on.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. All those responses
are either a function of denial,wishful thinking,selective perception ,or the just world hypothesis.
All of these misdirect responses FAIL to address the problem.Which IS the domination system and the game of who deserves what the domination system forces us to play against each other,so that no one but the top 1 percent gets all their wants met at the expense of all our needs.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. What an amazing post.
You began with a word that is of utmost importance to me: EMPATHY.

My daughter is now 28 (a DUer). When she reached adulthood, I realized that she had theeee most important attribute a human can be made of: EMPATHY.

I was proud, but then realized that I had not, and could not have, taught it to her. I only was able to nurture and support its growth. So many Americans think that a college education, dance lessons, karate, etc. are important for our children. They are not. What makes a human-being 'human' is empathy.

And no, she ain't no push-over at all. Empathy doesn't equal weak, as you stated. She is a strong young woman with a mind and courage to stand for her convictions. I said she's a DUer?!

When we name our great heroes through history, we are acknowleging those with empathy and courage: Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, Rosa Parks, Robert Kennedy, Susan B. Anthony, Caesar Chavez, and others. None of these used violence, but our nation's Declaration of Independence was based upon violent revolution.

Here is some reading you may find interesting, an interview ('The trick of the Phsychopath's Trade- Make Us Believe Evil Comes From Others') with the editors of the book 'Political Ponterology - A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes' http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148141-The-Trick-of-the-Psychopath-s-Trade-Make-Us-Believe-that-Evil-Comes-from-Others


"Anger and hatred have a very specific uses,to free us from tyrants,psychopaths, bullies and domination...Rage, anger,and violence, they have a real important purposes"

Thank you for your post. This is the sort of conversation we must pursue.
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. I hate to say it, but until an awareness of these issues comes front and center...
...in a VERY BIG WAY, we are well and truly screwed.

Giving this a kick.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Sadly, yes I have to agree with you there.
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