I Detest My Baby-Boomer, RW, Rapture-Happy, Militant Parents.

[BeachBaby]

There - I said it.

If I didn't look so much like my mother and her family, I would be researching where I REALLY came from, because I don't share an ounce of my parents' habits, beliefs, ideals, traits, or passions.

I was born in 1969. The Vietnam War was in full throttle, and my very-young parents were contending with the all-too-often news of their high school classmates being killed over there. Bobby and MLK were murdered months earlier, all hell was breaking loose with Arafat's new position of power, anti-war riots were hitting the streets, the Manson murders, Woodstock, violence, drugs.....

My brother was born in 1970, and nothing had changed. My mother once told me that as she and my father watched the Kent State Massacre coverage on TV, she looked at my dad and said "What are we thinking, bringing babies into the world at a time like this?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A little bit of background history: my mother (b. 1949) was raised by two Polish immigrants. Her parents were both Democrats, and her dad was a lifetime military man (WWII Purple Heart, followed by DoD career). They were also devout Catholics. My father (b. 1943) was raised by two German immigrants, both Democrats, and his dad was a blue-collar worker for ARCO. I would describe their religious affiliation as being agnostic. I can say, in all honesty, that both sets of my grandparents lived the epitome of the American Dream - nice houses, cars, money in the bank, never expecting more than what they worked for. I guess I would classify them as successful products of the Greatest Generation.

For reasons unknown, my father was, very early on, fascinated with the military: guns, tanks, strategy, the whole gamut. When he graduated high school in 1962, he informed his parents that he was enlisting in the Army. His parents tried to talk him out of it for about a year, but he finally went ahead with his plans in the summer of 1963. He was in basic training at Ft. Dix on November 22nd, shining his boots, when his sergeant came running into the barracks to inform him and his buddies that Kennedy was assassinated. My father LOVED Kennedy, as did his parents. Kennedy, by their terms, was a true American - a man who was making the world a better place. I've heard it opined more than once that November 22, 1963 was the official end of the innocence - and many thought that we would be going to war with Cuba. My dad's unit was one of them. Obviously, that never happened; but Vietnam did.

He never did get sent to Vietnam, although many of the men in his unit did. He was, instead, stationed in Seoul, S. Korea, for 13 months. After that tour, he was stationed in San Francisco, and then DC. It was 1966, according to my dad, that he was feeling "disillusionment" regarding our government, its corruption, and what its agenda REALLY was. He was driving home to NJ, sitting on the beltway, sifting through the radio stations, when he fell upon Billy Graham. He claims that after listening to Mr.Graham for about 20 minutes, he pulled over on the shoulder of I-95, prayed, and became a born-again Christian.

About a month later, he met my mother - and to make a long story a bit shorter, by 1969 managed to convert her, his parents, and his brothers, to born-again Christianity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My parents started attending a fundamental Baptist church in 1971. In other words, I was fed Bible stories from the time I can remember. My toddler years were filled with Sunday School classes involving crafty Noah's Ark artwork using popsicle sticks, and pasting gobs of cotton balls to create colossal-sized posters of the clouds that Jesus ascended into after his crucifixion. We were required to memorize Bible verses every week. The "New Testament" teachings continued until I was about 12 years old.

It's also important to note that I was educated through the Christian school system. By the time I reached Junior High school age, the church and school seemed to shift its educational agenda from New Testament teachings to Old Testament teachings. No longer did I get fed the repetitive nursery-rhyme-style parables of baby Jesus, or even some of the "kid-friendly" stories from the Old Testament, ie., Adam and Eve, baby Moses, or Jonah and the whale. No, no, no - it seemed that once we little lambs became teenagers, it was some twisted rite of passage to move us into the Old Testament, complete with the murdering of babies, full-on war, indiscriminate sex and the price to be paid for said immoral behavior. The "sweetness and light" factor of the Bible was no longer the focus; but instead, the constant indoctrination of "going into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature". The non-believers are to be considered "misguided" until they've been "informed"; if after hearing "the message", the non-believers don't accept and conform, they are to be seen as "heathen". We are to separate ourselves from them. They are the "devil's workers" whose agenda is to lure us away from Christ. They are the enemy.

I think it's important to bring attention to the fact that my Biblical education was of the literalist variety - every story in the Bible really happened, just the way its described. And it's precisely that level of Biblical indoctrination, and its inconsistencies, that convinced me that from Day One, I was being fed one big, fat, organized LIE.

When I was little, I would get the belt for questioning God's Word; when I was a teenager, I had privileges at home taken away - and if I questioned anything at school, I was sent to the principal's office and handed detentions, or forced to sit down with the youth pastor while he pointed out that "the devil is hard at work" at leading me astray.

It's important that I now mention that I was trained, from 4 years of age, in classical piano composition. By the time I was 15 years old, I was recognized throughout the mid-Atlantic parochial school fine arts world. By age 16, I was competing, and placing in the top three, in fine arts competitions for the entire East Coast. It was right around this time, that scholarship offers started coming in the mail; but because of my "status" being exposed only in the parochial education system, the offers coming in weren't from secular colleges/universities. Instead, these offers were from Bob Jones U.; Liberty U.; Wheaton College; Pensacola Christian College; Cedarville College; Messiah College....on and on. As I turned down each one, my parents, my school, and my church, became more and more irate with me. June 12, 1987 was my graduation day from high school - and with the exception of a couple funerals I attended there since then, I've never gone back. I was officially retired from the school and church as of that date.

I ended up going to a secular college and enrolled in a poli-sci course, joined the student govt and democrat club. I became friends with these people instantly. We sat in each other's houses and watched the Iran/Contra trial, and marveled at how unbelievably corrupt the Republicans were. We were all excited about the upcoming election - it would be our first time voting, and we were voting for Dukakis. My parents told me I was naive in my choice, and then said something about how the voting age should be upped to 21.

Then came Bill. I jumped right on board with his campaign and worked the local HQ - gawd, but I was excited. I saw him as being my generation's Kennedy. I saw a bright future ahead for me, for my future kids, for America. My parents yelled at me for not "educating" myself before I vote. They told me that a vote for Clinton is a vote for weakening America's defenses.

Then it was Al's turn. I was raising babies and didn't volunteer for his campaign - but oddly enough, it was at this point where relations between my parents and me took an extreme turn for the worse. On election night, my mother called me to ask me who I voted for. I was surprised that she didn't already know that, but I said "I voted for Gore - why?" What I got as a reply was "Oh my God", followed by my father in the background saying "What - what did she say?" and my mother answering "She did it - she voted for Gore". And then the statement that changed our relationship forever (by my father, with my mother in full agreement): "Well she and all the babykillers are making sure that America self-destructs."

When Kerry won the primary, I decided to volunteer my time to his campaign. I wasn't necessarily a fan, but knew that Bush had to go - and unless I was part of the solution, I was part of the problem. During the campaign, many issues were brought to the forefront - and one day I decided that I was going to point-blank address my parents on some of the issues. In a nutshell, they were voting for Bush again, because he and his cabinet will make sure there isn't another 9/11; they will keep the terrorists "over there"; Bush is against abortion; Bush is against stem-cell research; Bush is a God-fearing Christian. Oh boy.

So I decided to pick their brains a bit, and asked them about the stem-cell issue. When I explained to them that this research quite likely would be hugely instrumental in curing various diseases, my mother responded by saying that she didn't care - that any way you look at it, it's killing babies, plain and simple. When I tried to correct her, she told me that what I was "brainwashed" with was liberal propaganda. So I used a scenario: I asked her to imagine my son, her grandson, being diagnosed with juvenile diabetes. I told her to picture a doctor standing before us, claiming that the use of stem cells could be the answer to this worldwide problem. I told her that at this same time, the general election is coming up. Would she still vote against the research? Her answer: "Yes. I refuse to kill another baby, even for your son." My dad chimed in with "If your son dies from a disease, it's because it was in God's plan. Do you think God would want us killing another baby to save yours?" And I responded "But it's okay to kill the healthy Iraqi babies and children?" The answer I got to that question sent chills down my spine: "They are trained to be terrorists from birth. Better to kill them now, than to have to deal with them later on our soil."

The last conversation I had with them was in November of 2006. They invited me and my kids to have dinner at their house. When I showed up, my dad had this obscenely huge map of the Middle East laid out on the living room floor. I was stunned as he explained his distorted view of our War on Terror - and when he got done his diatribe, I just looked at him and said "Who do you expect to pay for this?" When he didn't answer me, I said "You and your war-mongering generation of lunatics are destroying any chance of my generation, and my children's generation, having any financial freedom. Your mentality will drive this country into another draft. You claim that I'm naive and undereducated, yet you are the one who won't research. You are to blame for the complete mess this country is in. I can forgive anyone for voting for the wrong guy once, but twice? No. Not when my future, and my children's future, hangs in the balance."

I was helping my kids get their coats on when I heard, from my mother: "I won't be on this earth much longer anyway - so it's not my problem".....and from my father: "None of this matters. Jesus will be returning soon. Everything is falling into place as the Bible describes it. THAT is what YOU should be afraid of."

The only contact I currently have with my family is my brother. He called me Thursday to inform me that our parents are officially insane: "You should hear them! They're practically having an orgasm over McCain."

God Bless Amurika.

ON EDIT: I apologize to anyone who read my post and was offended at my statement regarding the "war-mongering" generation. I was not referencing the entire generation to be war-mongerers; but rather, pointing out to my father that the war-mongers of HIS generation were destroying my future. I know many a liberal boomer. Hope this helps explain my statement. Thanks. :)

[sharp_stick]

1. I`m glad my parents aren`t that bad

Are your parents actually happy about McCain?

My fundie neighbors are furious, they're saying and I'm encouraging them not to bother voting for that "sheep in wolf's clothing".

I reminded them that McCain is actually all for abortion and everything else. In other words I'm lying my ass off to them, good thing I'm not the one that believes in hell huh ;-)

[physioex]

2. Leave them alone....

There is no changing people like that so go on with your life. Don't let yourself believe that you are going to be one "big happy family" I didn't happen in mine and it won't in yours.

Anways why have an "orgasm" over McCain most Xtian conservatives don't like him?

[BeachBaby]

12. To a Christian zealot...

McCain is a god. My parents see this mess as a religious war. They don't care who fights it, as long as it is fought and we win.

[roguevalley]

42. I am sorry that this is your lot. You have maintained your soul through

a lot of conditioning and for that I applaud you. THis isn't what God is about and you know that already. These two are fear driven like my brother and they will all find out someday when they finally leave this earth, this school room and go to find out what the final exam came to. You shouldn't feel bad or sad for yourself. I can imagine how you must feel about your parents being so misguided. Nurture your brother. He sounds like he made it to himself as well.

My parents were my heroes. They were anti-war, loved all people in spite of things and wished for a future like we all want. Racism was anethema in our house and our outlook-militantly liberal and democratic-was the path toward enlightenment. Your parents will find out some day and they will be sorry. Forgive them, honey, for your own sake and keep moving on. I hug you tight. :hug:

[BeachBaby]

48. Ya think your parents would adopt me? LOL

Thanks, RW...
and I hug you even tighter. :hug:

[roguevalley]

145. consider yourself adopted, honey.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[crim son]

3. Nothing about your story surprises me, except that you managed

to break free from the lies. When the shrub won in 2004 I was forced to take a long look at the U.S. and American values, and I realized that half of us are something like a different species. It's terrible to think that you have had to separate yourself from your parents but for the sake of your children, what else can you do? Hugs to you, JerseyGirlDem. Thanks for posting.

[BeachBaby]

33. Thanks for understanding.

:hug:

[aquart]

4. Christians should stay out of the Old Testament.

It's not their book and they don't have the faintest idea how to read it.

And keep your bloody paws off Psalms, too. I've seen it sneaked into the New Testament.

[provis99]

6. hah! good one

Like Lewis Black said (paraphrasing); the Old Testament, that book wasn't good enough for You Christians, was it?

[conscious evolution]

17. LOL!!

So true.So true.

[flygal]

130. Not to mention it's scary as hell

I was reading a Child's bible for my kid tonight and had to edit out the killing stuff and my six year old questioned EVERYTHING. I had to say "it's a fairy tale". I'm one of those who doesn't do up the santa/easter bunny thing much and I just can not tell my six year old who watched "Birth of the Earth" intently that God just poof*** made Adam and Eve......I want my kids to have some basis for religion but this fairy tale stuff at the beginning is just too much.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

149. The Old Testament is NOT all blood and gore

The later prophets are full of verses like, "What does the Lord require? Do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God."

They criticize the rich who exploit the poor, kings who use their position for personal enrichment and to oppress their people.

Where do you think the Jewish tradition of social activism came from?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I'm so sorry your parents are like this

Rest assured that there are many Boomers here and that they do NOT ascribe to the twisted form of religion your parents do. I did know people who were that way in the 60s, and, frankly, they and their educational system were looked down upon by others at the time.

I was raised in a Republican household, but the kind that was socially liberal and economically conservative--in the Chuck Percy mold. Both my brother and I are Democrats, and have always thought for ourselves, maybe because Mom had us question our faith, really decide what was important in religion--and she also taught us that all paths lead to God. ALL.

[BeachBaby]

19. Please read my edit about the "boomer" statement.

Thanks. :)

[Extend a Hand]

7. I too was brought up in a fundamentalist household

my Dad is long dead and I'd be willing to bet my Mom will vote for Huckabee.

While I didn't speak to my family for a number of years, as I've gotten older, I've managed to find peace for myself. My family hasn't changed but I believe they did the best they could and do love me. We won't ever have the kind of relationship where we can talk about politics or religion, but as my Mom fades with dementia, we can talk about the times that were good. We have a lot of shared experiences and that won't ever change. You'll never be able to change irrational beliefs with reason. I will be there for my Mom even though we still disagree (quite vehemently) on a lot of things that are important because she's my family and I love her for trying even though it didn't always work out very well.

I hope you find peace with your situation. I know it's hard.

[Jim__]

8. I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with your parents.

I was in high school in th 60s and became very anti-war. My father was very pro-war. We didn't talk for years. Gradually, we got back together, we just avoided conversations about politics. It sounds like your parents are more in-your-face about their beliefs; and, if you can't talk to them, then you can't. I hope things work out for you.

[BeachBaby]

34. Yes, VERY "in your face"

about everything.

[roguevalley]

43. sometimes, honey, I look at things like this as a test. you were

given strong opposition to what you believe and you refined it and will defend what you now know is deeply important to you. perhaps in this life, you as a group meant for this to happen so that you could find out what was important and how much you would stand up for it and yourself.

RV, a spiritualist at heart.

[orleans]

79. are you just as "in your face" right back to them?

it sounds like you were that one time

"hey mom, guess you were wrong about that rapture bullshit, huh? i mean, it's been over a year"

i would have threatened to have them both committed and see if that slowed them down a bit.

[BeachBaby]

95. Committed? LOL

Yes, I have been very straight-forward with them, but nothing I say matters.

Unless someone has lived through something like this, they can't understand the full impact it has. People who live as my parents do, base EVERYTHING they do on the Bible. EVERYTHING.

I just shake my head at the people here who tell me to grow up, or to stop being selfish. Selfish - oh man. They don't have a clue.

Thanks for posting. :hug:

[FredStembottom]

115. Or, perhaps more precisely:

They base everything they do on the specific interpretations of the bible provided by their particular sect (and/or fave televangelist).

I bet your parents love Jack Van Impe!

Thanks for posting this story! Sounds like your folks are all the way over into the "short-wave-radio" level of fundamentalism.

[gateley]

9. JerseyGirlDem - you rock!

:headbang:

[BeachBaby]

32. Thanks, gateley!

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

10. I'm the same age as your Dad ... maybe 4 months older.

I do NOT regard myself as part of a "war-mongering generation of lunatics" .... and I regard such broad-brush ageist bigotry to be appalling. To attribute such attitudes to a person's age is sheer ignorance ... should I call it the ignorance of youth? (Hmmm.)

[DemBones DemBones]

15. The boomer bashing is getting really old, isn't it?

The OP will probably be surprised if her own kids follow her example and reject their parents.

[ChazII]

30. Hopefully she will remember

and not be surprised. Boomers blamed the generation ahead of them, it should not be surprising that we are now being blamed for the current woes.

[BeachBaby]

31. READ THE EDIT.

[ChazII]

38. I was not offended nor

did I mean to offend you.

I was in kindergarten when Pres. Kennedy was assassinated and in fourth grade when a fool assassinated Dr. King. I remember the race riots and sit-ins, war protesters via the tv news. Even then I wondered what the protesters would do when it was their policy's turn to be protested against. Hope this is making sense. Allergy meds make it hard to think clearly.

The world works in cycles. In another 30 or 40 years the younger generation will be protesting.

[DemBones DemBones]

55. I never bought into that "Blame the old folks" stuff.

Never bought into "Don't trust anyone over thirty," either.

Every generation is the same. About 10% really good people, 10% really bad people, and 80% "average" people.

[BeachBaby]

23. Please read my edit. Thanks. :)

[DemBones DemBones]

56. The thread header still says "I detest my baby boomer. . . parents."

You're going to make yourself miserable if you spend your time detesting your parents. You can cut them out of your life completely but that deprives your kids of their grandparents and you are likely to feel guilty when they die.
But that may be your best choice.

My suggestion is that you just refuse to be baited into discussing religion or politics with them. That's what I had to do with mine and we were able to have a pretty good relationship that way. Occasionally they'd go off on a tangent and I'd just ignore it, change the subject as soon as possible.

[BeachBaby]

59. For some reason, you seem to have a problem with the title.

I can't help when my parents were born - you'll have to take that up with my grandparents.

You're the 2nd person who has used the word "deprived" to describe my kids.

Did you ever think for a minute, that my parents are the ones who stopped talking to me? Did you ever think that THEY are the ones who wrote me and my children off?

I didn't ask for suggestions. I came here and posted my thoughts, because I'm part of a group of people here who share my ideals, and I thought that maybe some others here have gone through the same experience.

I'm amused by people who seem to think that I haven't tried what you just "suggested". Read my post again, will ya? And think about who was being irrational for my entire life - and refuse to let up. Do you really think that I bring up politics and religion with them? THEY do. It never stops. They parlay EVERY FUCKING thing I do into religion or politics. If my jeans are too tight, I get Bible verses thrown at me in reference to modesty. If I have a beer, I'm ruining the temple of the Holy Spirit.

My parents have no problem with the thought of killing little kids overseas. They actually laugh about it. They call them "terrorists in training". I'm glad my kids are nowhere near them. I think they're absolutely nuts.

Did you skip over the part where my parents would rather my son die of disease, than to sacrifice some embryos for research?

Please don't "suggest" to me how to handle my parents. You don't know them.

[DemBones DemBones]

64. Well, your dad is not a Boomer, since he was born in 1943, and

if you didn't want responses to your whine, you should have said so and I wouldn't have wasted my time sharing my experience.

[BeachBaby]

67. My "whine"?

I post a story about how politics and religion can destroy a family, and you turn it into a "whine". Nice.

And I never said I didn't want responses. If you can't tell the difference between a reply and "unsolicited advice", then maybe you ought to read up on that.

I'm assuming that you're a "baby-boomer". You're not helping your case any.

Next!

[barbtries]

92. if you had read the post

you would have read that when the OP showed up for dinner with her children, her father had put a huge map of the middle east on the floor and proceeded to lecture her kids on his twisted idea of what goes on. that kind of baiting can only be avoided by avoiding contact entirely.

i didn't get the impression that the OP is eating herself up detesting her parents. on a couple of levels the title of the post might have been changed for the better, but the body of the post did not leave me feeling bitterness from the writer, much more the courage of her convictions.

[BeachBaby]

97. YES.

You get it.

I'm not going to say that I'm enjoying the current status of my relationship with my parents. It took years and years of trying to get along with them, but they truly are ruthless.

They have lost all their friends and extended family over their judgemental, preaching lifestyle. And that is what it is - it's a lifestyle. They live day in and day out this way.

I have asked them to accept me the way I am. The one response I got from my father is this: "We can't accept the fact that you turned away from God. It is our job as parents to lead you in the right direction, and we will attempt to do that until the day we die."

I have to admit, the posters here who tell me I'm selfish, and tell me to grow up, really hurt me with those comments. They don't know who I am, and they don't know my parents. If they did, they wouldn't have said these things.

Everyone in my circle who knows my parents, knows that I've been battling this my entire life. It was draining, and it had come to a point where I was seeing a counselor every week. It was when my counselor suggested anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs, that I knew I had to make a choice.

Damned if I was going to start taking drugs just to continue a toxic relationship.

[Bongo Prophet]

132. It seems to me that you have handled your life quite well. Protect your kids from such nonsense.

It is a testament (!!) to your will and hard fought wisdom that you have outgrown your parents folly.
Your duty now is to truth, understanding and teaching your own children the same.
Protecting them from hard core fundamentalist beliefs is extremely important - they will work their ways into your children, trying to instill the fear for their souls. I know this. I have seen it, and it gets into their subconscious minds.

As they grow, it would be a good idea to introduce them to comparative religion and mythology. In this way you can explain, and put into context, both their grandparents views as well as those of cultures around the world. This will give them an inoculation against superstition and fear-based beliefs while teaching them that cultures adopt their own understanding of their world over time. Joseph Campbell and Elaine Pagels are must reads here.

Yes, I am a late boomer, but not overly sensitive about that - as another poster says, there is a bell curve in all generations. so no worries there. Considering all the "generation war" threads here, it is goood to understand how a simple statement can keep people from hearing your larger message - I have made that same mistake before as well. We live and learn, eh?

Please accept my virtual hug as well. You sound like a wonderful person and loving parent. I wish you all the best. :hug:

[DemBones DemBones]

57. The thread header still says "I detest my baby boomer. . . parents."

You're going to make yourself miserable if you spend your time detesting your parents. You can cut them out of your life completely but that deprives your kids of their grandparents and you are likely to feel guilty when they die.
But that may be your best choice.

My suggestion is that you just refuse to be baited into discussing religion or politics with them. That's what I had to do with mine and we were able to have a pretty good relationship that way. Occasionally they'd go off on a tangent and I'd just ignore it, change the subject as soon as possible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. Thank you

My DH is your age and I am only a few years younger. As I was reading the OP, I kept thinking that I don't know ANYONE in our age group who is that right wing or that religious. Her parents sound like wingnuts.

[HockeyMom]

11. I am a year younger than your Mom

although my kids are much younger (29 & 24)than you. I spent 12 years in Catholic school and my husband spent 8 years, although neither of our parents were particularly religious. That religious education was enough to cure both of us. We sent our kids to public schools and just went through the trappings of a religious training with them. Today neither of them are particularly religious. One of my daughter's is also a lesbian and we do support her. That alone would have been a major problem if we had followed the church's teaching.

I had the misfortune to have an ectopic pregnancy at 5 weeks in a Catholic hospital. I will not go into details here, but suffice it to say they thought that embryo had more rights than me. My only thought at the time was that I was going to live to see my daughter grow up. It helped me to survive and live through their hypocrisy. My life is worth more than a 5 week old embryo's. I am sure my daughter would agree with that. Her younger sister would never have been born if I had not survived. Living, BREATHING, human being have more rights than embryos.

I vote in every single election. It is my duty as a citizen and as a mother to try to leave my children with the best possible world my one little voice can possibly muster.

[Raejeanowl]

13. May I Suggest?

Since you laid all of this out, making it our business...that you at least try to find a way to continue loving your parents and allowing them to love you despite the extreme ideological differences?

It doesn't sound like anything they have done has hindered you in having the kind of life you desired and that all might have been well until the Gore schism. Don't deprive them of their grandchildren or your children of them. As your mother points out, life is too short.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. I agree. Few people agree with their parents

about everything. She has been on her own since finishing high school, apparently, and is married with kids. She doesn't have to tell them who she votes for or discuss politics or religion with them. All it takes is saying "Let's not talk about that."

I've been there so I know.

[BeachBaby]

28. Deprive?

Are you serious?

And when did my mom say that life is too short?

[MS68]

70. I've been reading some of these responses...

They just have no idea what it's like. I don't know about you, but I spent years in therapy trying to deal with my anger and then the guilt I felt for being so angry. My parents had hard lives growing up and I tried to be understanding and to spend time with them because they "did the best they could". After the episode in CO, I finally just came to terms with the fact that they weren't going to change and that by spending time with my father, I was setting myself up for the same type of abuse that I had to deal with growing up. I don't have to put up with it anymore and it is abusive.

My mom was always submissive, so what my dad says goes. Also, I came to realize that it had always been about them and it still was. They just didn't know how to nurture. When my dad complained about my mom and the fact that her illness was probably caused by stress, I suggested she go into therapy. I was later told to keep my "elitest suggestions of therapy" to myself.

If I had kids, I don't think I would bring them anywhere near them. My dad is an alcoholic that gets belligerent after a few drinks and he drinks EVERY night. My mom refers to Hillary Clinton as a "slut" - I'm not sure why...probaby because she actually did something with her life. And to top it all off, they think they're very classy people and are extremely judgmental of others.

I think it's telling that out of three kids, the only one that had kids was the one that didn't have a choice in the matter - my brother's girlfriend's BC failed. My sister and I were both too afraid of what kind of parents we would end up being after our childhood.

It's nice to talk about this with somebody who's had a similar experience. It's easier to connect with people on the internets sometimes. The accusations of whining aren't fair. It's called commiserating.

It sounds like you've spent some time rejecting their hateful ways and have probably done a lot of soul searching as well. I'm sure that this has made you a much more nurturing parent than your parents were and your children will benefit. It seems unlikely to me that they'll hate you when they're older.

[lumberjack_jeff]

120. I disagree.

People who actually believe that Iraqi children should die because they're trained from birth to be terrorists should not be role models to anyone's children.

She has a greater responsibility to the next generation than to the previous.

[BeachBaby]

124. Amen that!

Thanks.

[jaysunb]

14. I'm the same age as your Dad...

All 65 year olds are not on the same page, never were, never will be.

Ones early lifes experiences tend to stick to some or become to launching pad for others. I spent years arguing or not speaking to my parents because of their religiosity, but these days we agree to disagree at best. Fortunately, they turn to me when they want an opinion about politics.

Thank them for giving you life and the independence to stand on your own two feet.....

[BeachBaby]

24. Please read my edit. Thanks. :)

[earth mom]

16. Being a baby boomers has NOTHING to do with why your parents are extreme fundies. nt

[BeachBaby]

25. Please read my edit. Thanks. :)

[ironrooster]

18. I had a somewhat similar experience -

Anyway Jerseygirl, my Dad moved away from his only son and hardly ever calls (once or twice a year) and doesn't even know his grandchildren's birthdays. He's a friggin fundy as well.

My parents were southern baptist and during sunday school when I was 10 or 11 the teacher was telling me how Jews and Buddists and Catholics were all going to hell (no matter how good they were). I told the teacher that he had no business judging others .... well that didn't go over too well. I left the church and never went back until I converted to Catholicism when I married my lovely Liberal Italian American wife.

The way I look at it is that while religion is a complelling story that tells us something about ourselves and others; it cannot under any circumstances be taken literally. That doesn't mean it's not true(or important) - there being a difference in something which we consider valid for our lives and something empirically observable. One is about mind and the other matter and yes I do think we are greater than the sum of our parts.

That said, I think people who don't see religion as a metaphor and instead take it literally probably have some sub clinical psychopathology - like super mild schizophrenia if there was such a thing. Your parents for some reason (and this is true of many other people - who still manage to walk - talk and hold down jobs) are ill equiped to deal with anything but absolutism. If the inability to deal with the "grey areas" of life was diagnosible, then I think at least 1/2 of this country would be considered mentally ill. I also think there is probably a genetic component to this that will one day be found.

One of the things that fascinate me is the possible selective advantages that a tendency toward absolutism or relativism may confer. Anybody have any thoughts on that - I would love to hear.

May the Lord of loving kindness and peace be with you.

[BeachBaby]

36. I remember those days.....

where we'd be sitting in the church service, and the preacher is at the pulpit, pointing in the direction of the Roman Catholic Church down the street from us and saying things like "They have distorted the teachings of the Bible into a way that makes it easier for them to continue their heathen lifestyle. And they will all be going to Hell if they aren't reached."

Ay-yi-yi.

[pretzel4gore]

21. Wow! the real 'Family Ties'!

i recall reading an article back in the 70's about how Norman Lear really despised Archie Bunker- his patriotism and faith in capitalism at same time as he suffered the indignity of being a powerless worker etc. I forget how the article explained it, but the gist was that 'All in the Family' was a sneaky backhanded attack on working people, their beliefs, and contempt for intellectuals who tried to improve their lot, all while seeming to respect them. As you know 'Family Ties' also mocked the 'hippie' ideals while firming up the theme of rightwing can-do ruthlessness and moneyed wisdom etc (all with lotsa laffs, of course) as typified by the young alex keaton kid....same with 'Happy Days' and...well, the entire corp. entertainment thing always promoted certain ideas while mocking any of that 'we will overcome' windmill tilting ...Your parents must have felt affirmed every time they watched tv! It's fascinating to me that you saw through it; especially as so much of the system encouraged the views your parents have

[BeachBaby]

37. Yikes.

My parents LOVED "All in the Family."

[pretzel4gore]

71. lol...i liked it too!

i think it was the idea that a subliminal kind of conditioning was used in popular cultural entertainment, to sell faith in obedience. One good thing about bush and the modern gop social managers; they sure don't bother with subliminals (sledgehammers, more like it!)!

[Hekate]

136. It took me a long time to appreciate 'All in the Family' but ultimately I saw it as kinder to Archie

...Bunker than your impression. Archie Bunker was indeed an ignorant blowhard, but his life-experience was what it was, and over time we got a back-story on him and Edith, and we saw that Archie's assumptions were shaken by the changing world around him, and that to a certain extent he grew.

As for Edith, Archie's long-suffering ditzy wife, an essay by Erma Bombeck really turned me around in my view of her. Bombeck showed that Edith was the glue that held the entire family together with her love.

Anyway, I think Norman Lear's creation was nuanced.

Hekate

[Donnachaidh]

22. Nice broadbrush diss of Boomers -- you DO know you are WRONG to do that, right?

Just because your parents don't agree with you doesn't mean the entire boomer generation are bad. Quite a few postings using simplistic tactics. Amazing. Now if boomers reversed that and said the same about your generation - the wailing and gnashing and screaming would be deafening.

[BeachBaby]

27. Read my edit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Your title still calls them baby boomers

And in case you hadn't noticed, DU is full of baby boomers. Like me. :)

[BeachBaby]

99. My title calls them lots of things.

I'm describing who they are.

You're a baby-boomer, right? Are you RW? No. Are you Rapture-Happy? No. Are you militant? No.

Sooooo.....if I was describing YOU, my post would say something like this:

"proud2Blib is a baby-boomer liberal."

So would all the baby-boomer Freepers freak out too, and say that I'm calling them liberals?

That's fucked up. Sorry.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

140. I came in after your

edit. That musta been one bad pilot - er, I mean post.

Seriously though, I am a Boomer and found nothing offensive about your story. Don't let these folks with poor comprehension skills get to you.

[splat]

26. I'm a boomer with depression-era parents like that -- but Catholic, colonel and GOP

You're defined by what you fight for, and the freedom to fully live your own life is always worth the struggle.

Don't make the mistake of internalizing their disapproval or they'll still be in your head scolding you from the grave.

Wish them freedom from that 1970 fear that all the rest of their beliefs are meant to protect against, and go live your own life robustly.

[Warpy]

29. I'm sorry you've lost your family

Just realize that you're not alone. You have a lot of company out there in the world, people who were raised fundy and broke free for one reason or another. The anger passes, but I don't think the sadness ever does.

As for the shift in religious focus when you started high school, that was no accident, either. That's about the time Reagan took office on the backs of the Dispensationalists, and the Dispensationalists gained newfound power in a lot of denominations, especially the Southern Baptists. One group fed the other, the power elite and the Dispensationalist televangelist elite. That's why the focus shifted from the tolerant and forgiving New Testament to the intolerant and unforgiving Old Testament, cafeteria style, of course.

A lot of people seemed to go through the 60s and the drug scene and emerge from it terrified, rudderless, and lost. Religious rigidity gave them the emotional security they lacked. They grabbed it like drowning men grab flotsam. I don't know if this helps you understand what might have happened to them or if it matters, but I lost as many friends to fundydom as I did to various addictions during the 70s.

There is nothing you can do to change your parents. That you still have contact with a brother is a good sign, though. You're not completely cut off. You can always hope the fever will fade and that they'll be hit hard enough by the fallout of the last 8 horrible years to catch a clue. Just realize it probably won't happen and that you'll have to choose other people to be your family.

We're here for you, anyway.

[BeachBaby]

47. Thanks, Warpy.

:hug:

[mrigirl]

35. JerseyGirl- I always thought that my Bible thumpin' mother was bad until I read your story.

When the times were tough in the 80's my mom's friend turned her into a born-again Christian and it almost destroyed my parents marriage. My dad also had the military background but only for 4 yrs as a MP in Europe. Avoided Veitnam by the skin of his teeth. Also grew up in a republican household w/ Sunday school every week and church, youth group etc all the way through high school.
My mom would leave me excerpts from her "friend" on how rock music was Satanic and left me these creepy books on Ozzy Osborne and Black Sabbath, etc.
If my mom actually knew me a little better she would have realized that I was into more like New Kids and 90210 and pop rock.
I wasn't allowed to listen to certain radio stations in my room. She would make me shut it off.
She also shoved piano lessons down my throat for ten years. Part of the reason why I hated it so much was her nutty friend was my teacher. I still did it though until I was a Senior. Haven't touched a paino really since college and it's kinda sad.

Wasn't allowed to try out for Varsity softball because it interfered w/ the music program at school.

My parents also voted for Bush twice. And we got into heated arguements over it.

Today I can proudly say my mom isn't nutty w/ the religion thing like she used to be. She has come to the realization that she actually might be a Democrat now. And she's supporting Hillary.

I go to church now once a year for my mom. That's all. And I'm ok w/ it. You can be a Christian w/out going to church every week. It's how you treat people around you that's important. Not how much you tithe every week.

Thank you for sharing your story- there's actually other people out there my age who went through sort of the same thing. Sometimes I wonder what high school would have been like if I played sports instead of all the church and music stuff I had to do.

[BeachBaby]

39. You and I could be one and the same.

I had to turn my radio down REAL LOW just to listen to Top 40 hit stations.

My church had an "album crushing party". We met in the parking lot in back of the church, and had to bring any secular album we owned. Granted, most of us were smart enough to hide them from our parents in the first place. But if our parents found them, we had to destroy them. For me, it was Journey's "Escape" and "Frontier" albums. How fricking ridiculous.

Couldn't go to the movies either.

Couldn't dance.

Funny I'm posting this as "Footloose" plays on my TV. :)

[mrigirl]

91. For me real rock- Led Zepplin, Doors, etc. wasn't allowed

in my house. I could listen to top 40 but forget any real rock music. That was Satanic. As I got older and experimented more w/ different genres of music I started listening to hard rock and she hit the roof.

You know I was a damn good kid. Never got into trouble ever. My brother could drop out of high school, get arrested for drugs, vandalize the local state park, have our house egged, etc. but God forbid if I did anything wrong like bring home a B-.

We were held to completely different standards. Which was quite unfair. My mom said it was because I was a girl and he was a boy.

I could've been the rock slut who got to play softball and go out drinking afterwards. First time I got drunk I was 19. First time I got laid I was 18. (AND still got grounded for it for 6 mos even though I was a Senior.) First time I tried weed I was 26.

So you know what? I think I was very good to my parents and never really tested my boundaries. They should be grateful thier only daughter respected them and thier beliefs.

[BeachBaby]

118. How's THIS for demented?

My dad wouldn't dance to "Daddy's Little Girl" at my wedding reception because he believes that dancing with any other woman besides your wife is "wrong - my Bible tells me to avoid all appearance of evil; furthermore, dancing is a sexually suggestive activity."

[mrigirl]

138. Ok, you win. Yuor family's beliefs were a little more out there.

My Dad wanted me to dance to that song at our wedding and I told him no way. We danced to something else. Something country. Crap, can't remember it.

Anyways, your parents were both quite religous. For me it was mostly my mom. It must have been even harder for you to deal with. You had it alot worse.

[MS68]

40. What a coincidence..

My relationship with my parents broke down in October of 2006. My mom was in the hospital having her spleen removed, so I was visiting (Colorado Springs...ugh) so that my Dad wouldn't be alone, since my brother and sister also live out of state.

My dad is retired Air Force and somewhere along the way turned into a right-winger. I actually rode around with him in car that had an american flag, a W sticker and a "4 more years" sticker. It was terrible. Both he and my mom are always quoting Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

Anyway, he's definitely the in your face type and ALL he wants to talk about is politics. I did pretty good for the first 4 days, but during my last evening there he starts calling Kerry a traitor and talking about how brave Bush is because those jets he flew were dangerous. Whatever... My dad is a vietnam vet - it just blows my mind.

So, after him screaming and hollering this for awhile, I finally couldn't take it and I said "I hate Bush, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him and I wish somebody would just assasinate him." Ooops..

He ordered me to leave his house and while I packed followed me around calling me a "stupid fucking cunt", over and over. Then he changed his mind and didn't want me to leave and I said "sorry" and off I went.

That's the last time I've talked to him other than in an exchange of e-mails in which he told me how I selfish I am because I turned down his request for more visits "for my mother's sake".

I'm really not trying to hurt or punish anyone, I just can't take being around them anymore. I find no pleasure in it - I was only doing it for their sake - needless to say, I don't feel obligated any more.

[BeachBaby]

46. You and I should exchange pictures....

and see if we look alike.

I could have written your entire post - maybe we were twins separated at birth, and our parents really aren't our parents. Maybe our real parents are a couple of hippies singing Bob Dylan songs somewhere in the Village. :)

[Lorien]

50. I feel awful that you both have had to deal with so much hatred

from those who are supposed to love you the most. That's the thing about truly brainwashed Republicans: they put party before country AND family! And I doubt that they ever really read the Bible, because nothing Jesus said has gotten through to them at all.

There's a book out there called "Toxic parents" that really helped a friend of mine. My father and I had to cut my sister out of our lives years ago because she was a truly toxic person. Our lives are far happier and more peaceful now because of it, and she has finally (mostly) stopped scamming others for a living and holds a real job. My mom is a fundie Right Winger, but she doesn't listen to hate radio so she's not a HOSTILE fundie Right Winger. I don't know if I could have any contact with her if she were. I'm already struggling with the years of being called a "mistake" who is undeserving of love because I wasn't "part of God's plan" (I was conceived out of wedlock-like anyone cares any more), so I know how much damage that kind of psychological warfare can do over time. :hug:

[MS68]

60. We're close in age!

I was born in 1968. I'm so jealous of people that have hippies for parents. I think that would be the best. I always wanted a twin too!

[BeachBaby]

62. Yup - I'll be 39 in a few weeks....

and if those are your initials in your screenname, then you and I have the same initials, too!

<insert Twilight Zone music here>

[MS68]

65. Ahhh...your last thirty something birthday!

That was kind of weird last year, but not nearly as weird as 40 will be in two months. Ack!:o

Those were my initials before I got married...er..twice. I'm not sure why I chose MS as part of my screen name. I'm not very creative when it comes to that stuff. Maybe I'll become somebody else..

[Generic Brad]

78. I'm right there with you

The first time my mother told me I was going to fry in hell forever was after the attacks on 9/11. She said the attack happened because liberals like me were tolerating gays and voting for baby killers. I firmly told her that if she ever had the gall to speak like that to me again, it would be the last time she ever saw me.

She toned it down and kept her opinions to herself for quite a while. But that was really the day our relationship broke for good. For the sake of my daughter I kept our relationship going. Then Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans. Again I was told I was going to roast in hell for marrying my wife, leaving the church and voting for baby killers. Then she finished that off by telling me that my disappointing behavior was to be expected because I had been weird my entire life. That was the last time I spoke with anyone from my family.

Until I receive an apology that is better than "I'm sorry you're an asshole" I am staying away.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

41. Thanks for sharing

I'm a year older than your mom. Lost a HS classmate in 68, a college roommate's brother in 69, more HS'ers in 70 and 72. Another HS'er, who attended prior to me and who I didn't know, got the Medal of Honor. The local VA hospital is named for him. By 70 I was living in FL and had two good friends, a Navy guy with severe back injuries and an Army guy, bronze star and a member of VVAW. Although I was onboard for Afgan, hunting down OBL an kicking some Taliban butt, I take this Iraq incursion and occupation somewhat personally. I refuse to call it a "war."
Fortunately, despite being S Baptist, the church thing growing up was somewhat casual around our house. My mom has some close S Baptist and otherwise Dem friends who refused to vote for JFK because he was Roman Catholic. Mom thought that was the dumbest thing she had ever heard. That being said, she drank the Morman koolaid in the mid 70's, served up by the 2nd hubby. The fact that he had Money had nothing to do with it, I'm sure. But there she is. Don't tell her, but I spit on her GWB calender in her kitchen the last time I was over.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

44. Your parents struggled, as we do, with promises and expectations. They grabbed onto,...

,...what they "believed" could be solid and an anchor. Their "BEST" was NOT ENOUGH. They experienced desperation and held onto an edict that helped THEM SURVIVE.

The last thing they want to do is destroy your future.

THEY LOVE YOU!

However, they are the victims of a corporatocracy that invests 24/7 in convincing people they can HAVE IT ALL.

They are suffering more than you know. They are failures. They NEED a cabal to TELL THEM otherwise.

Love them, sister. Love them with all you have.

[pleah]

45. Wow! And I thought my family was crazy.

[BeachBaby]

52. Yeah, and better yet.....

most likely there is another set of parents even crazier than mine.

[Lorien]

53. Talk to DUer Ladyhawk someday. n/t

[Laelth]

49. My parents-in-law are the same way.

I can not discuss politics with them. It's pointless.

The whole "rapture" thing irks me too. It's an excuse to squander my future and that of my children because, after all, none of us is going to be here for much longer.

I feel awful saying this, but sometimes I wish the whole lot of them would just die. They seem so eager to go, anyway. What's stopping them?

:banghead:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--idiom and spelling.

[Lorien]

51. Don't feel too awful. They aren't as excited about being "Raptured"

as they are about watching the "damned" (the rest of us) suffer and die. Talk to any of those Rapture ready folks and you'll see that that's the real allure of the entire myth.

[DemBones DemBones]

58. One more note: your dad was born in 1943, so he's not a Boomer.

The Baby Boom began in 1946, as men came home from the war and started families or added to the ones they had. The economy was good and a man could support himself, his wife and several children without being a CEO or anything near that.

There are war-mongers in every generation.

[BeachBaby]

61. Unbelievable.

Way to miss the entire point of my post.

Are you done yet?

[DemBones DemBones]

66. Setting your FACTS straight. I didn't misunderstand your post at all.

You want everybody to say "Poor baby" and "You rock." Sorry I've disappointed you by saying neither. I did try to give you advice based on my experiences with my parents but you just blew me off. Grow up, you're 39, not 19!

[BeachBaby]

69. Wow. Just wow.

"Poor baby"? "You rock"? And you're telling me to grow up?

I don't want anybody feeling sorry for me. There's nothing to feel sorry for. Since you seem so oblivious to the point of my post, I will explain it ONE MORE TIME, just for you: I thought that maybe somebody else here went through the same experience, where they were crucified by their families for believing differently than they did. It turns out I was right - there ARE alot of people who have gone through it. It's not fun, not at all; but it's nice to hear sometimes that people understand, because they've been there.

Can you stop hijacking the thread now, and go harass someone else?

[shance]

63. Wonderful post Jersey Dem*** You are the true grown up in your family

It seems clear your parents simply choose to remain in a world of illusions and fantasies, rather than actually be adults.

At some point we have to remove ourselves from such people even if they are our family, because they are not healthy and for whatever reasons relating to comfort and fear, they actively choose to remain in such a state.

I'm sorry it had to come to this for you and your kids. However, in the long run it will benefit you and your children in ways you perhaps can't see today, but you will in time.

Many of us 'out here' have had to make the same separation from our families be it because of religion, politics, family abuse, greed, but it happens quite often) and a host of other reasons that deplete us of our energy and our truth in who we are.

[housewolf]

68. I'm sorry there is such a bitter divide in your family

I's so sad when families are torn up over politics. I'm sad for you that your love for them is blocked. I am sorry for them that they are estranged from their daughter and grandchildren. I so sorry for your children that the love of their grandparents is unavailable to them at this time. For their sakes, and for the sake of all of you, I hope that all of your hearts can be re-connected.

[tyedyeto]

72. Since you lead off with 'baby boomers'

Are you trying to say all 'boomers' are RW?

Sorry, but that is not the case at all.

'Boomer' here who has never voted Repug since my 1st vote in 1972. Go McGovern, even though you probably have no idea who he was.

[DeSwiss]

73. Thanks for your post!

K&R!!!

You might also want to check out this piece: http://www.atheisttoolbox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5433">Selling Out My Generation

[shireen]

74. how did your brother turn out?

Does he share your parents's politics, or did he manage to break off as well?

I was struck by something you said:
It was 1966, according to my dad, that he was feeling "disillusionment" regarding our government, its corruption, and what its agenda REALLY was. He was driving home to NJ, sitting on the beltway, sifting through the radio stations, when he fell upon Billy Graham. He claims that after listening to Mr.Graham for about 20 minutes, he pulled over on the shoulder of I-95, prayed, and became a born-again Christian.

When a person is feeling overwhelmed and out-of-control, they become vulnerable to religious fanaticism. It's a coping mechanism. Critical logical thought becomes too painful to bear, so perhaps they've retreated into what they've perceived to be a safe place. They probably have the Authoritarian personality trait that was described by John Dean in Conservatives without Conscience, making them more susceptible to influence by right wing conservatism and religious beliefs.

I'm not claiming that religion is a crutch. There are lots of religious people who engage in critical thoughtful thinking, capable of separating faith vs. facts & science as separate but complementary. Thom Hartmann, for example, one of the smartest, most knowledgeable person many of us have encountered, proudly refers to himself as a Christian.

[BeachBaby]

117. My brother is very indifferent.

Not sure why that is, but he's not registered to vote.

I would classify him as a Democrat, and he claims he's registering this year to vote.

He likes Hillary.

He's a tortured soul, in his own quiet way. He's one of those people who never talk about their feelings unless they're drunk.

[shireen]

150. I'm sorry to hear that.

There are so many of us who quietly go through life nursing deep invisible wounds from childhood. My thoughts and good wishes are with you and your brother.
:hug:

[southerncrone]

75. I'm so sorry for you, JersyGirlDem.

Your youth sounds absolutely oppressive.

The fundie churches have completely brainwashed their members. The problem being that most of the Protestant churches now fall under this umbrella. Even some Catholic churches are buying in to this. All under the guise of "saving babies". They are truly lunatics.

[BeachBaby]

121. Please don't be sorry.

Somehow, this thread has turned into a "feelings" piece, when that wasn't my intention. The purpose of the post was simply to demonstrate how some people have to deal with alot of shit, just because they feel differently about things.

I'm not sorry at all....I managed to get myself out of the toxic mess that relationship was. If I had continued with that, THEN I would be sorry.

Thanks. :hug:

[mzmolly]

76. Reading your post, I am reminded of the bumper sticker I had before the 2000 election.

"VOTE FOR BUSH BECAUSE YOU'VE WAITED FOR ARMAGEDDON LONG ENOUGH"

The R/W mentality breeds violence and "end times" lunacy.

I am sorry about your parents being brainwashed. My dh had a similar experience growing up, though not quote as oppressive. He, like you, has "seen the light".

Best wishes and stay strong.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

77. My very humble advice

Would be to get past your parents religious and political beliefs.

My wifes father was not a very good dad in allot of ways, some far too personal for me to go into. When I first met her she hated her dad. Now we are married with kids and she has come to peace with the past and we have seen my father in law become a good grandfather.

Only perfect kids deserve perfect parents...

I would hope that were my kids to grow up with a different belief system we can still love each other..

[David Zephyr]

80. Here's a very liberal boomer who says your parents were a minority in our generation.

As was George W. Bush.

By the way, I read you edit and think it was swell of you to put it there.

But, your parents were hardly typical of the times. I'm truly sorry you had to be exposed to so much fundamentalism at such a precious age.

I had to leave home as a teen because I was gay and lived on the streets for a number of years. The lowest of those days were actually, as I look back, better than the best of the days at my former home.

It's good to let it out, but you must not keep dialing back for the pain and disrespect. They were adults and you were a child. Now you are their equal.

Honor thy mother and father? As George Carlin says, "only if they earned it."

The good news, no the great news is that you rose out of it and recognize it for what it is.

You are what is known as a transcender. And that says that you are very, very special indeed.

[girl gone mad]

81. Unfortunately,

they've been a very vocal, powerful minority.

[Jeffro40]

82. Jersey Girl - I hear you, but you need to Love them also

I'm from Jersey - I was born in 1961. My wife's family is whacked too . . but detesting them doesn't help anyone.

They do sound pretty scary, but the only way to deal with them is to pour the love on . . . they will come around.

[lisainmilo]

83. I feel for you, though I share a completely different upbringing.

I am fortunate to have life long Democrats for parents and they are old-fashioned in alot of ways, I am grateful. I have to say though, I am from the bay area, born in SF CA. and transplanted to a red "bible belt" state. Your parents thinking is ALOT like the thinking I am surrounded by. I just don't get it. Today, I proudly put on my 2 bumper stickers I got in the mail this Saturday morning.

The first one: 3 out of 4 ostrich watch FOX NEWS.

The second one : Bush Legacy Enron Katrina Iraq

There are a few Dems around here. The locals say this town used to be Democrat, it is now Republican.

I grew up believing that the Democrats were for the working man and the Republicans were for the corporations, and I still believe that. Now, I have asked the question to a few younger people what the difference is between the Democrats and the Republicans and they have responded. The Republicans are more conservative. Somewhere along the lines it seems the Republican party crossed into the churches. It didn't used to be that way. I usually get into a long spiel about legislating morality and the importance of church and state being separate.

Now this has nothing to due with religious beliefs but,this morning my husband was telling be about his boss believes. His boss believes that France, helped Saddam get out WMD and get them to Syria. :wtf: :crazy:

Now this has nothing to due with religious beliefs either, but a woman who comes to my work believes in GWB, and when questioned about the Iraq war, said he just got bad information. :wtf: :crazy: I about died. I had to keep my professionalism, but I am telling you that is the kind of BS being spewed out by the RW. :crazy:

I just had to get that off my chest. It is crazy what people are believing, now I know with Bush having only a 30 % approval rating, most of the country is sane ( I hope) ......but sometimes around here, it is hard to tell. Thus, the bumper stickers, maybe some will reflect.

:)

[PatSeg]

84. Great post JerseyGirl

I think you are wise to stay away from your parents under the circumstances. Years ago I severed ties with my parents as they were toxic to me and my children. This came about after years of trying to make peace with them, but I finally decided that my children did not need to be exposed to their destructive behavior. I was about your age when I walked away and never regretted it.

Thanks for posting your story.

[roody]

85. I am a boomer who has right wing parents in their 80s.

I live far away from them. When we are together, we discuss nothing. We love each other but have nothing to talk about. They show no interest in my life aside from my job (I don't have kids.) It is very boring to visit. EXCEPT we do play some dynamite Scrabble.

[Afje]

87. It must have been pretty hard on you to

realize that your parents all about their Gawdjaysus and not you. I often think that for those religious nutters other people are just a means to an end.

[mmonk]

88. Glad you qualified that.

War protestors back in the day faced clubs and bullets. Protestors in the day paved the way for civil rights sucessess. It was time you could die for your cause here. At least one could tell the nation was awake.

[DFW]

89. What a sad and scary story

I used to think of my upbringing as just "normal," but I guess that in the end
there is no such thing.

My father was drafted into the Army in 1943, was sent to France in 1944, and
returned unscathed. I was born in 1952. We were a family of life-long Democrats,
and haven't changed a bit. No militarism, no religion, no demands of ideological
conformity, or threats as to what would happen in its absence. My children vote,
but I never ask them for whom (I know they are Democrats, too, though).

My wife's father was drafted off of his farm into the Wehrmacht at age 17, returned
minus a leg from Stalingrad at age 18, and has hated anything military ever since.
The only thing I know him to have prayed for (he was Catholic) was that all his
grandchildren be female so that they would not be forced to serve in the military.
He got his wish, by the way. Although my wife's parents voted CDU (sort of Republican
lite in Germany), and were life-long Catholics, they never had a problem with the fact
that I was neither. Their daughter, my wife, has always voted SPD or Green, and they never
had a bad word to say about that, either.

When I read a story such as yours, it makes my skin crawl. How can people so closed, so
scared, so empty ever claim to have been enlightened by anything, much less a radio
broadcast?

My deepest admiration for your having broken free of such intellectual and ideological chains.
Houdini couldn't have performed a better escape.

[barbtries]

90. excellently written

and good on you for seeing through all the bullshit from such a young age. i am sorry that you are unable to have a relationship with your parents but from your writing i have to say that it appears to be their choice. peace.

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. My parents and I disagreed on many things

I am old enough to be your mother. I was the oldest of four. We grew up in the 60s. The year you were born, I was 16 and angry that my dad wouldn't let me go to a concert. I longed to go to New York for Woodstock but knew my dad would call the police if I left home for New York.

When I fell in love and wanted to get married, my parents were upset because they thought I was too young.

When I got pregnant with my first child, they were upset because I was still in college.

When my husband and I wanted to buy our first house, my parents were mad because they didn't think we could afford it.

When we wanted to sell that house and move, my parents were convinced it would be too disruptive to our kids to move, and that the new house was more than we could afford.

When I decided that for my 40th birthday I would buy my first brand new car, my parents reminded me that the entire time I was growing up they had only one car and my mother car pooled to work.

We argued about religion a lot. My parents were devout Catholics and I rejected Catholicism as a teenager.

We did agree on politics. My parents were lifelong Democrats. But on just about every other topic, we did not agree.

But we had a great relationship. I learned as an adult to focus on the things we had in common and once my kids were born, we agreed on how much we loved and cherished them. So I avoided the topics we fought about and nurtured a wonderful adult relationship with my parents. My kids had the best grandparents imaginable.

And today, now that my parents are gone, I miss them every single day. No we didn't have a lot in common but they did love me and there is an emptiness in my life that can never be replaced. That second house we bought was right up the street from my parents and we wanted to be closer to them when my dad was battling Parkinsons and my mom was too proud to get help caring for him. My dad has been dead for nearly 8 years and I still cannot drive down than part of my street - I go out of my way to avoid passing that house and its memories. My grief is still that strong even though we had so little in common.

You strike me as a selfish child of baby boomers who is focusing on the things you dislike about your parents rather than what you have in common. You can edit your OP as much as you want, but by lashing out at baby boomers you have attacked a good number of DUers who are, in fact, baby boomers. I can report knowing a lot more crazy rapture waiting Christians in your generation than in mine. But I would never hold that against an entire generation.

So my advice to you is to grow up, find what you have in common with your parents and enjoy having them while you can. You will miss them when they are gone.

[MS68]

96. Lucky you..

It sounds like your parents were critical, but not abusive. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The last time I visited my parents, they were yucking it up over Limbaugh's attack on Michael J. Fox. Isn't Limbaugh just the best?

At one point, my mother explained that she didn't care if gays got HIV because they deserved it - shouldn't they know better?

As I said in an earlier post, my mom refers to Hillary Clinton as a "slut" and my dad loves to get drunk and talk about what a hero Bush is.

If I had kids, I'd think seriously before I exposed them to that kind of ideology.

Again, lucky you - you were criticized but not abused. I could probably forgive my parents for some occasional criticism as well. The years of abuse I probably could as well IF they had worked to become better people, but they're actually getting worse.

My parents are the same age as the OP and for some reason I thought they were boomers as well. Maybe I need to reread her post, but if I remember correctly, she said her parents were boomers not that all boomers were like her parents.

[proud2BlibKansan]

100. Why even mention they are boomers?

There are strange people in every generation. My grandmother was a bigot from the south but my dad managed to grow up, develop a good relationship with her and didn't have a bigoted bone in his body. She was also abusive.

My mother was abusive. When I was a kid, there weren't child abuse laws, but today, my mother would likely lose custody of her kids. My sister still has physical scars from abuse at the hands of our mother.

I merely chose to be an adult, focus on the positive and have a good relationship with my parents. That was the point of my post. You can dwell on the negative and hate them or try to find common ground and develop an adult relationship. The one thing I know for sure is you will miss them when they are gone.

[BeachBaby]

104. You obviously don't get it.

I would KILL to have two parents I could visit on Sundays; or call up everyday; or invite over for birthday parties.

You're telling us to focus on the positive. THERE IS NO POSITIVE.

Did you ever know a drug addict? The life of a drug addict revolves around drugs, and when they get their next hit.

That's how people like my parents are. Their entire being lives this ideology - and anyone who goes against it is the enemy.

Seriously.

This isn't something that existed solely during my upbringing. They continue this lifestyle up to the present day, and insist that I live as they do. As a matter of fact, my mother's brother has told me several times that he's amazed I haven't become a drug addict, or just outright killed myself. He also no longer has contact with my parents.

They wake up and read the Bible at the breakfast table. Then they go to work and encourage people to go to church and Bible study. They come home and watch Fox News, read the Bible some more, and then pray before bed.

They look me directly in the eyes and tell me I'm going to hell.

I don't think they know what love is. And if they do, it's on a conditional basis.

They've never kissed me, or told me they loved me. EVER.

I won't miss them. How can I miss something I never had a positive memory or experience from?

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. The OP's parents are different from yours

Read her post again.

[BeachBaby]

108. Huh?

I AM the OP.

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. Sorry I thought I was replying to someone else

But I still say if you want a relationship with them you can have one. And I am sure once they are gone you will understand what I mean when I say you will miss them. You might miss the conflict, but you will miss them.

[BeachBaby]

113. LOL!

I can only laugh at that. You thought I was somebody else who couldn't compare my parents to the OP's parents. They are one and the same. And so now you're back-pedaling.

I have a friend who finally, after 15 years of marriage, left her alcoholic husband.

He didn't physically abuse her, but 15 years of emotional and verbal abuse really screwed her head up.

After being away from him now for almost 3 years, I'm seeing my dear friend "come back" to the wonderful woman I used to know.

She doesn't miss him.

My experience was almost identical, except the abuse I received was emotional, verbal and physical. And not for 15 years, but for my entire life.

Now, if YOU would miss THAT, have at it. I would say there is something wrong with you if you missed having that kind of relationship with someone.

It's nice to wake up in the morning and feel good about who I've become. I've never experienced that feeling until recently.

I will say this again.....I find it quite pompous of you to think you know how my parents are, and how a relationship can be achieved. You remind me of those childless folks who tell everybody else how to raise their children.

I 100% disagree with you. You are telling me to allow abuse back into my life. Why would you advocate that? Or better yet, why don't you tell me why my parents are deserving of my time. Explain to me why, after countless fruitless attempts at trying to find common ground with my parents, and their refusal to ease up on me, that I should continue this obviously unhealthy cycle? Who would benefit from that?

[lumberjack_jeff]

122. The op's parents go beyond disagreeable.

They're pathological.

She will miss them when they're gone, but they'll go regardless.

The question is whether the OP will have to live with her own poisoned children. Extradite grandma and grandpa to jesusland, then close the borders.

Fuck 'em.

[BeachBaby]

125. Rotflmao!

Man, I needed you in here last night, but thanks for showing up today.

You made me smile. :)

[BeachBaby]

94. Apparently the baby-boomers here have a problem with my post.

And although I tried, several times, to explain that I was NOT lumping the baby-boomer generation as a pile of war-mongerers, the over-reacting has continued.

Look at the title of my thread:

"I Detest My Baby-Boomer, RW, Rapture-Happy, Militant Parents."

How come you all jumped on board immediately with the baby-boomer comment? I was using words to describe who my parents are: they are baby-boomers; they are right wing; they are rapture-happy; they are militant.

Nowhere in my post did I say that the entire generation of baby-boomers are also RW, Rapture-Happy, Militant people. That's absurd.

Let's say that I titled my post in this way: "I am an X-generation, liberal, agnostic, anti-war American." Would you read that as me describing the entire generation of X-gens as being liberal, agnostic and anti-war? If you do, you really need to sharpen your reading comprehension skills.

Some of my favorite people are baby-boomers. Some of the most influential people in the world are baby-boomers. The Vietnam vets I do volunteer work for, are mostly baby-boomers. I love them, respect them, and would do anything for them.

I even edited my post because I was so upset that baby-boomers were taking my words differently than I intended. But even that wasn't enough.

Please stop twisting my words in order to give yourselves a reason to attack me - you are taking a post that was meant to explain what it was like growing up, feeling like a fish out of water, and turned it into a "don't pick on us baby-boomers" rally.

A couple of you have told me to "grow up". You could take your own advice.

[immoderate]

106. Not your fault that baby boomers can't read.

I'm a boomer, and I never took your post as an attack on boomers. It's just not there. People see what they want to see, I guess.

That's quite a story, and I'm glad you came out of it OK.

--IMM

[BeachBaby]

116. Thanks, IMM!!!

:hug:

[Irishonly]

98. Dang

I am a boomer and I am doing a happy dance because I am nothing like your parents-no offense. I was raised to be anti-war and my dad was a WWII decorated war vet. I have raised my daughter to be an individual with her own beliefs and I am happy to say she's a peace activist.

When all of this fundamentalism nonsense started many of us thought it was going to be a passing thing. I remember arguing that the moral majority was the anti-war activists and not the buffoons Nixon was talking to. I remembering laughing when the televangelists started and I was wrong. Try telling a die hard fundamentalist what Jesus was really like and be prepared to be called Satan. I know. I have lost count of how many times I have been called Satan or a false Christian.

I am sorry about your parents and I am sorry for you and your children having to deal with your parents. IMHO your parents are the big losers. They have lost you and your kids. Keep raising them with peace and love.

[BeachBaby]

101. Thanks, Irishonly.

:hug:

You are like the majority of boomers I know. I always envied your generation for making its voice heard during the Vietnam War. Your generation went through ALOT. I can't imagine what it would have been like to graduate high school, knowing that my friends were going to be sent off to a war nobody wanted to be in.

And yes, I've been called "devil's helper" more times than I can count.

Fun, ain't it? :)

[Irishonly]

102. Sure Is

It's ok though. I am in good company.:hug:

[AnotherMother4Peace]

103. Thank you for this contribution & insight into born-again thinking.

It made me think about my Catholic high school days during the Vietnam war. My questioning of the pro-war speakers and assemblies the school sponsored, and my insistence that we needed to see both sides of the issue; that it wasn't fair to expect high school students to have to present the other side.

Discussion of most issues with the teachers and administration always brought quotes from the bible and political talking points of the day; that the war was to contain Communism.

[Martin Eden]

105. and THEY accuse YOU of being brainwashed?

If they can't differentiate between Iraqi infants and al Qaeda terrorists, then THEY are the ones who are uneducated and misinformed.

Have they acknowledged that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11?

Those who see this as a religious war and can advocate mass slaughter of human beings that happen to be Muslim have lost all touch with the teachings of Jesus. Their moral compass points in the same direction as those who attacked us on 9/11.

[nannah]

109. in my case, my parent is the age of your grandparents,

not too long ago, i blurted into the phone something very similar to your statement,

"You and your war-mongering generation of lunatics are destroying any chance of my generation, and my children's generation, having any financial freedom. Your mentality will drive this country into another draft. You claim that I'm naive and undereducated, yet you are the one who won't research. You are to blame for the complete mess this country is in. I can forgive anyone for voting for the wrong guy once, but twice? No. Not when my future, and my children's future, hangs in the balance."

I was helping my kids get their coats on when I heard, from my mother: "I won't be on this earth much longer anyway - so it's not my problem"..."

even the remark about leaving the earth so not caring is what i hear all the time from my "ronnie reagan republican" father.

i am the same age as your father. i have been protesting since the 60's. i found your description of your upbringing to be fascinating. do you think the tangibility of music and piano playing gave you the perceptual framework to debunk the prevailing values of the restrictive environment in which you were raised?

[AnotherMother4Peace]

114. May I comment? Higher level music exposure & abilities lends itself to diverse & creative thinking.

It also lends itself to intellectualism, questioning, and looking for solutions. Many religions get nervous when scrutinized. They discourage too many questions, and prefer more of a "flock" mentality.

[dave123williams]

111. Wow. Your old man sounds like a first class tool.

[dave123williams]

112. I've been lucky enough to have folks that can see how bad Bushco is.

They voted for him twice. Now, he couldn't buy their vote. They feel totally betrayed by this administration.

So, I finally win with my folks, finally get them to see what a bunch of amoral fuckers these guys are....but the whole country loses. Great.

[lumberjack_jeff]

119. Yikes. Thank you for helping me to appreciate my family.

There are some people who you just can't reach. They'll keep up the double-or-nothing until they've lost everything. They can't be allowed to run the country.

They cast their lot with Nixon, and haven't yet been able to admit to that fuck up, instead with each election they just make it a little worse.

You made the right choice. Anyone who feels that Iraqi children "should die because they're taught to be terrorists from birth" should not be a role model for your own children. You have a responsibility to the next generation that transcends your responsibility to the previous one.

Your family should understand. "If thine own eye offends thee... pluck it out."

[Arugula Latte]

123. I'm SOOOOO glad I didn't have to grow up with Christianity.

Yes, there are many fine, liberal Christians. But there are millions of idiotic Christians who will swallow the biggest load of crap if it is labeled as "Christian."

[kiva]

126. Told myself I wasn't going to respond to this thread.

But obviously can't help myself.
Your parents weren't perfect. My parents weren't perfect. No one is a perfect parent! Instead of focusing on how you have gotten past this, you spend paragraph after paragraph whining about your childhood--and this is constructive in what way?
If you don't want to have anything to do with your parents, fine; if you want to forge a relationship with them despite their very obvious flaws in thinking, fine. If, as it seems, your purpose is to get sympathy for having horrible parents, you've obviously reached your goal.
By the way, the disingenuous edit really doesn't disguise the fact that you somehow think the fact that your parents were baby boomers (I say think since others have pointed out that error) adds to their guilt.

[BeachBaby]

127. You should have heeded your own advice.

And there's that word again - "whining". Okay....so I write my story about how I grew up with a democrat's mind in a RW household, and somehow I'm whining. Hey - whatever floats your boat.

And I never asked for perfect parents. There is no such thing, anyway.

Since you seem to think you're an expert at familial relationships, why don't you tell me why I should continue the relationship. And, after responding to other people's posts, elaborating on how my parents tick, I would have to ask you how you can advocate my children being exposed to such hateful people. It's my job, as a parent, to love, nurture and protect my children. I want my children to accept people no matter what color, creed, or background they have - so why would I jeopardize that to satisfy some demented societal rule to keep a relationship going with my parents? Who would benefit from that?

I can't wait to hear this.

[kiva]

128. Perhaps you have confused me with another poster?

Read my post--I did not say you should continue your relationship with your parents. You have made it quite clear that you don't want any suggestions or advice on this topic. I did not say that you should expose your children to your parents, I simply said that you had choices.
What I did question is why you would post this diatribe; since you have no interest in anyone else's opinions about the matter, it seems that you just wanted sympathy for your situation. :shrug:

[BeachBaby]

129. Well it just goes to show how people's posts are interpreted, eh?

I took your exclamatory comment about no parents being perfect as an admonishment on my having no contact with them. You know, kinda the same way you're misinterpreting my post as being a whinefest.

And, since I obviously have to repeat myself yet again....I have plenty of interest in people's takes on the situation. I never said I didn't. My biggest pet peeve in people is unsolicited advice. I didn't ask for it, so don't hand it over.

I thought people would be interested in hearing a story about how politics and religion can be so intertwined as to completely destroy a family. In this world we live in, with a govt who wants to take our constitutional rights away by using the Bible as their new rulebook, I thought that my experience would shed a little bit of light on the subject.

I don't want sympathy. Sympathy has nothing to do with it. I was hoping that other people would jump in with similar experiences and share how they handled it - and I got what I hoped for. It's nice to know that other people have pulled through it.

[murielm99]

131. My parents are born-again and they sound

much like your parents. Oddly enough, they were the same way about music. We all received a good music education. One of my brothers was a performing classical musician.

My father is a combat veteran. My parents, however, are "Greatest Generation." I am a boomer, born in 1948.

You will not see me disrespecting an entire generation because of what my parents have done to screw up their children's lives. My parents have done a great deal of harm to all three of us. I would describe many of their actions as abusive.

I have stayed in touch with my parents. I try not to discuss some things with them. Usually, when we end up in an argument it is because they insist on bringing up certain topics, no matter how many times I repeat that we should avoid such discussions.

I see my parents two or three times a year. I have made certain that my children grew up knowing their grandchildren, but with limited exposure. They are all in their twenties, and understand how different my parents are compared to the rest of the family. That includes aunts, uncles, cousins, and other relatives who are contemporaries of my parents.

Recently, my dad was hospitalized with pneumonia. He is 82, and it was very serious. They did an EEG, and discovered blood in his brain. Apparently he had a stroke during this time, too, and is in the beginning stages of dementia. One day he was fine, and the next he was quite ill and no longer lucid. No matter how much I have hated his actions in the past, no matter how much I have blamed him for the things he did to harm us with his religious-based style of child-rearing, I am saddened and concerned about his condition, and whatever future he has left.

Your parents have not done anything to you that mine have not done to me, my brothers, my brother's children, and anyone else they had the capability of harming. They have left real and lasting scars. They did these things not because of their generation, but because of their toxic interpretation of religion.

I have not missed the point of your post at all. I was raised in a similar fashion. But as long as you have the words "Baby-Boomer" in your post, I have little sympathy for you. You are missing the point of your parents behavior. It has nothing to do with their generation and everything to do with their religious viewpoint. FWIW, I have encountered more religious nuttery from people of YOUR generation than I have among greatest generation or boomers combined.

[BeachBaby]

133. Wonderful. Just wonderful.

So I have two baby-boomer parents, but I'm not allowed to say that; and yes, I've been told that my dad is technically not a boomer, but try telling that to him or his siblings. They all refer to themselves that way. Whatever. My mother is an "official" baby-boomer.

You were okay with me describing them as RW, Rapture-Happy, and Militant, but get in a huff with me describing what era they're from. Where did I say that I detest the baby-boomer generation? I see a definite pattern here of reading comprehension disabilities.

You also obviously didn't read the other posts in this thread. There's no way you would be able to accuse me of "disrespecting an entire generation" if you did.

And then you claim to know what my parents have done. I didn't want to get into all this, but several of you turned this post about being raised RW into a Dr. Phil segment on working things out with the parents - so I felt inclined to defend myself. Thank you for that.

Hey - if after a lifetime of abuse by your parents, you want to continue a relationship, no one's stopping you; but to judge others because they have chosen a different path is just wrong. Sounds to me like you're stuck in a toxic relationship and don't know how to get out of it. Good luck.

[crimsonblue]

134. Sigh... I know this experience.

Family can be a bitch, especially when they are hooked on the Jesus drug. May Xenu have mercy on their souls...

[Hekate]

135. A belated welcome to DU (and I did read your edit)

I'm glad you are getting support in this thread -- you've had an interesting and challenging journey to get where you are.

Normally I advise passionate DUers to simply declare a no-politics-or-religion-zone when visiting conservative relatives, but if your parents won't allow there to be peace in the family, then just do what you can to protect yourself and your kids from toxicity. Sounds like you're doing the best you can in that regard.

I was so lucky to be raised by a religiously liberal mother. An ex-Catholic, she taught us that the core message of all the "great religions" was the same Golden Rule. When I tagged along to Sunday school with my little neighbors and then asked her about God creating the Earth in a week, she taught me that to an infinite God a billion years would be as a single day, but our finite minds could only comprehend what we had experienced -- and that the Bible is metaphor, poetry, and folk tales. She really didn't believe in God any more, I later found out, but she left plenty of room in her life for those who did, including me. We talked of many things as I grew up, and I believe the core of what she taught me about ethics and the Golden Rule are what led me to be a lifelong Democrat.

Best of luck to you always from this Boomer.

Hekate

[BeachBaby]

142. Sounds like you had a cool mom., Hekate....

consider yourself very lucky, although I imagine you already know that.

Thanks for understanding the crux of my post....seems alot of people here are going through some sort of persecuted boomer complex.

Best to you, Boomer. :hug:

[sailor65]

137. I always get a kick

out of people talking about how terrible their parents are. It's a shame you couldn't decide to detest them BEFORE they spent all those years working for you, feeding you, dressing you, doing your laundry, washing your dishes, wiping your snot, and very likely listening to you talk about how much better you would run the world.

Imaging all you could have saved them if you had.

edited to add: And my complaint is not with your characterization of their religious fervor, nor do I disagree with your feelings about it. But you owe them more than just a closed door.

[BeachBaby]

141. Well....I was doing the laundry, cooking dinner and washing dishes

by the age of 11, because my mom went to work. But that's besides the point.

Are you saying that my parents have earned the right to treat their children like shit until the end of time?

Let me ask you something, since you seem to have all the answers: imagine, if you will, that you decided to pay your daughter a surprise visit to her home. As you walk up her porch stairs, you hear yelling. When you look in the window, you see her husband beating the shit out of her. They've been married 25 years, her husband has put a roof over her head, food in her mouth, and paid so that she could complete her college degree. Would you witness something like that, and tell your daughter to stay with the man? After all, he's done so much for her, she owes him to stay. Hell no you wouldn't. So why is it, then when it comes to verbal/mental abuse - which by the way, has been proven time and time again to be more damaging - you poo-poo the whole thing?

Oh - and one more thing - I wasn't allowed to speak my mind, remember? I couldn't even DREAM of telling my parents how much better I could run the world, because in doing that, I would be displaying critical thought, and they just couldn't have that.

[duhneece]

139. I wish I could put my arms around you and comfort you

Having read some cranky responses to you, I wanted to say I never got the impression you were saying ALL baby-boomers are right-wing, militant, rapture-happy, war-mongering, mean-spirited people. I appreciate your sharing how you are dealing with a sad and horrible situation and I thank you for sharing.
Don't let the bastards get you down.

[sawgrassstan]

143. sounds familiar, but there are some benefits-

My sister and I went thru pretty much the same thing, except that we were fundamentalist baptists (American Baptist Convention-- Southern Baptists were way too liberal.) My parents were ALWAYS wacky this way, and even though I went to public school, our social life totally revolved around the church. Pretty much, I accepted it all-- that's what it's like when you're a kid.

As we grew up, the ludicrous nature of Mom&Dad's belief system got more and more apparent. My sister and I both grew up to be liberal Democrats, the equivalent of devil-worshippers in my family. I recently pointed out to her that if Dad had been a moderate, right-leaning religious conservative instead of a paranoid literalist wacko, we might have fallen for it and stayed "in the Church." Think about that in your case.

Also, I'd like to point out that you have an edge on other secular progressives if you were brought up on daily (or hourly, practically) bible readings: If you've kept up with all the verses you had to memorize when you were a kid, you have a FORMIDABLE bullshit detector for the Right's favorite debate strategy. Of course, I mean the slanted, twisted or out-of-context Bible quote. You've probably got an answer ready in your subconscious, if you're willing to pull the trigger-- "Yes, but didn't Jesus ALSO say (insert verse here.)
I don't always have chapter and verse at hand, but the quotes are solid, and you can pretty easily build up a stock of them to answer just about anything a right-wing preacher throws at you. Jesus' words in the Gospels are full of quotes about the needs of the poor and the venality of the rich, so that's my mainstay. Even better, nothing in the new testament mentions gay marriage, hollywood liberals, big government, or abortion. "Suffer the little children to come unto me," is the most common one I get about abortion, but it's out of context-- so point out the context. He was talking about specific children who were right in front of him.
"Anti-gay" verses almost always come out of the old testament, so when they drag those out, you've got a whole slew of verses right along side that one that justify slavery, burnt sacrifices, and other stuff that even the most "orthodox" Jews have abandoned. You'll want to check Leviticus for most of those, and also Deuteronomy.

I still read the bible, but as a work of social history-- a secondary source, as far as the historical record is concerned. I've really come to love the Roman Latin historians of the second century BC-- Tacitus, Suetonius, and their heirs like Cassius Dio in the next century. Of course, they don't mention things like the "census" that made Mary and Joseph travel to Bethlehem, or the eclipse when Jesus was crucified-- pretty big events, considering how detailed their accounts are, and not something they'd be likely to miss. I'm fascinated by the way the New Testament was put together over time-- and how any dissenting books from the same era were declared "heretical."

I'm sure you made the right decision, but let me assure you that when you're stuck in a room with a bunch of right-wing religious crazies, you have all you need to have a really fun time. The slogan "the religious right is neither" is far more than a slogan-- not only is it the truth, it's an invitation to a party and an acrobatic show. These people don't expect to have their phony quotes challenged, especially by a "liberal", and the squirming it provokes almost makes me believe in God again.

Have courage, and have fun!
PS-- also good to read (though quotes won't help against right-wingers) are Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A Christian", and Thomas Paine's "The Age Of Reason." I'd probably vote for ANY candidate who had the courage to campaign as a "Deist."

[BeachBaby]

146. Bravo, sweetie!

And welcome to DU!!! :hi:

I was raised fundamental Baptist as well (did ya ever hear of GARBC - General Association of Baptist Churches?).

Your post made me laugh out loud - you truly know of what I speak,and I appreciate you sharing your experience.

Sounds like you and your sister came out of the ordeal in pretty good shape - congrats!

Thanks so much - you made my day. :hug:

PS - I do have quite the arsenal of verses to use; however, after 30plus years of this, I'm growing kinda tired of the whole thing. :)

[JNelson6563]

144. There comes a time JerseyGirl

when one must assess whether someone(s) is more aggravation than they are worth to keep in your life. I am estranged from my mother and have been for years.

It was the right thing for me to do and I've never regretted it.

Do what's best for you and your kids.

Julie

[BeachBaby]

147. Seems some of the boomers disagree with you on that.

I'm sorry to hear you were also placed into that very disturbing position.

Thanks for the reinforcement. :hug:

[JNelson6563]

148. Different things work for different people

To some it is utterly unimaginable to be estranged from a parent (or whoever) but, unless you have actually endured an untenable relationship, that which does far more harm than good to your life, you really cannot know how such a seemingly extreme measure can possibly seem suitable.

Those who would criticize your decision do so simply because they are fortunate to not have such an experience. Consider them lucky, well-meaning souls and move on. You know what's right for you and your kids, no one else.

Sometimes you just have to think outside of the box we know as "the norm". :toast: You'll be surprised how you'll actually be happier in your life.

Cheers,
Julie