Md. driver in crash that killed 8 tried to stop, guardian says

[RamboLiberal]

A man who drove his car into a crowd of street-racing fans, leaving eight people dead, tried to stop his Crown Victoria by slamming on the brakes, his guardian said Tuesday.

Darren Bullock, 20, has been "like a zombie" ever since the crash along an isolated stretch of highway early Saturday, said James Walls, who raised Bullock from childhood.

Bullock was driving his brother home from go-go band practice on Route 210 shortly before 4 a.m. when he came up on the spectators standing in the road, Walls said. Bullock slammed on his brakes but his sedan slammed into the crowd that had gathered to watch two street racers speed off.

Contrary to witness and police reports, Walls said Bullock had the car's headlights on and does not remember seeing smoke kicked up by the racing cars.

"We feel sorry for the victims," Walls said Tuesday at his Waldorf town house. He said Bullock is "pretty much a victim, too."

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080219/NEWS/80219028

Just wanted to post this because sometimes here we too quickly jump to conclusions and act as judge and jury. We also forget this guy is a victim too and there but for the grace of God or Karma or just dumb luck we could find ourselves in the situation of this young man.

[emilyg]

1. Why were adults drag racing to begin with.

[pansypoo53219]

2. darwin

finally got some more.

[Forrest Greene]

3. From Reading This Account

...of an accident about which I've heard nothing before & nothing else, it certainly seems to me that the "spectators standing in the road"are solely responsible for their own deaths.

[Bentcorner]

4. I think he's the ultimate victim in all this because he was the only one not doing anything wrong.

[slackmaster]

6. Other than driving too fast for the conditions

:eyes:

[TZ]

8. Umm what conditions?

It wasn't rainy or foggy or icy or anything like that. A little cold perhaps but thats it....

[slackmaster]

10. Darkness

My standard is not to drive so fast that I would be unable to stop for a fallen tree or brick wall that suddenly appeared where none had ever been before.

[Bentcorner]

24. A brick wall that suddenly appeared? You must not drive then.

[slackmaster]

27. Don't be fatuous, Bentcorner

I drive in heavy traffic every day.

My driving record has been spotless for almost 25 years.

[Bentcorner]

28. Really? If you think brick walls can magically appear in the middle of the road

at night, I have to question that.

[slackmaster]

37. I've seen some pretty bizarre things in the road

Here's a short list of things I have seen unexpectedly on highways at night:

- Fully decorated Christmas tree, in July

- Van full of smuggled illegal aliens overturned

- Tanker truck on its side, leaking fuel

- Rock slide

- Motorcyclist down

- Phone booth

- Crates of oranges

What's wrong with being PREPARED for something completely absurd?

How's YOUR driving record, BTW?

[Javaman]

74. But no brick wall...nt

[slackmaster]

89. Yes, no brick walls yet

But if there ever is one, I will be prepared to stop short of it.

[Javaman]

93. LOL

You are too much. Love to hear your stand up act sometime.

[qanda]

101. Or a group of 50 people

[slackmaster]

103. From your perspective as a driver, what practical difference would there be

Between a crowd of 50 people, a brick wall, an overturned big rig, and a fallen tree?

Prepare for a brick wall where there was never one before, and you can handle pretty much anything that doesn't jump out in front of you.

[qanda]

114. Being from this area, I have heard just about every side of this story on the news

The only ones saying that the guy was speeding and didn't have his lights on are the people who were standing in the middle of the street, in the middle of the night watching ILLEGAL drag racing. As far as I'm concerned the poor driver who hit them could have been driving drunk, blind, too fast and illegally and he still shouldn't be charged.

[zorahopkins]

9. Huh?

He was driving on a road.

The road is a four-lane, divided highway.

The race was in the two south-bound lanes, and people were standing in the two north-bound lanes.

It was late at night.

He had his headlights on.

He was NOT a part of the race.

He applied his brakes.

He hit people who WERE STANDING IN THE ROADWAY!

[slackmaster]

11. If there had been a fallen boulder or tree in the road, he would have hit them too

And been equally at fault for driving too fast for the conditions.

[zorahopkins]

13. Boulders Are Not Quite The Same Thing

Boulders and fallen trees are not quite the same things as people.

Boulders and fallen trees really have no choice where they fall.

People do have a choice where they stand.

It is sad that people put themselves in such danger when they chose to stand in the middle of a roadway late at night.

[treestar]

174. Absolutely - two different things

The humans are contributorily negligent - branches and fallen trees can't be.

[Javaman]

76. Man, talk about your straw man arguments.

I'm thinking no longer driving because there is PAVEMENT on the road!!! Run away!! run away!!

[slackmaster]

105. Why is that a straw man argument?

An unexpected hazard is an unexpected hazard.

[Javaman]

110. damn, you really do need everything spelled out for you, don't you?

boulders = act of nature.

humans in road not meant for pedestrians = stupidity.

[slackmaster]

112. Street Race Longstanding Problem on Highway

February 18, 2008 - 6:55pm


A woman stops on Indian Head Highway to look at a memorial, Sunday, Feb. 17, 2008, in Accokeek, Md. Seven people were pronounced dead at the scene, and an eighth died later at a hospital following a pre-dawn street race. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari) WASHINGTON - The flat, straight stretch of suburban Maryland highway where eight street-racing fans were killed this weekend has long been a problem spot for reckless driving and underground races, according to residents and business owners in the area.
"The racing has been a known problem. ... to my knowledge, for 20-plus years," Stan Fetter, president of the Indian Head Highway Area Action Council, said Sunday.

The underground pastime took a deadly turn before 4 a.m. Saturday, when a sedan that was not part of the race plowed into a group of fans that had spilled into the roadway, just after two racing cars had sped off. Police said smoke from the racers' spinning their tires, along with the pre-dawn darkness, may have obscured the people.

Police have not released the driver's name and have said there are no charges pending against him.

Police have released the names of all eight victims. They are: 33-year-old Mark Courtney of Leonardtown; 38-year-old Daryl Wills of Clinton; 20-year-old Maycol Lopez of Gaithersburg; 49-year-old Blaine Briscoe of La Plata; 61-year-old William Gaines of Nanjemoy; 39-year-old Ervin Gardner of Oxon Hill; 35-year-old Otis Williams of Indian Head and 41-year-old Milton Pinkney of La Plata.

Another seven people, including the driver, a passenger, and five race spectators, were injured. Two of those spectators are in serious condition and the injuries of all the others aren't considered life-threatening.

Police are still hoping to interview more witnesses and are urging anyone who was at the scene to come forward. They are not actively looking for the drivers who were taking part in the illegal race because they were not directly involved in the crash, Prince George's County police Cpl. Arvel Lewis said Sunday.

Anyone with information about the accident is asked to call the Prince George's County Police Department's Collision Analysis Unit at 301-731-4422. Callers wishing to remain anonymous may call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477).

Fetter blamed a thin police presence in the area for the prevalence of the illegal races. He said neighbors have complained that the events effectively block off access to the divided highway from some side streets.

Prince George's County borders Washington, D.C., but Accokeek is about 20 miles from the city.

"The police tend to get distracted by things closer to D.C., so no one's ever there," Fetter said. "They tend to forget about it."

He said his group discussed the problem of reckless driving a few months ago with Melvin High, Prince George's County's police chief.

Frank Dunn, owner of Country Carpet, just off the highway near the crash site, told The Washington Post that in the past week to 10 days customers have been telling him that his store's parking lot had been full of cars in the middle of the night. He said one customer told him cars were being unloaded from trailers there in preparation for races.

Police said Saturday they are aware of the reckless driving problem on the road. They said motorcycle races are common in the warm weather.

Sheila Howard, a paramedic in neighboring Charles County and one of the first paramedics on the scene Saturday, said she too is familiar with the problem. She said the underground race circuit is well organized.

"There's going to be no stopping them," she said. "There are always going to be drag racers. And they carry scanners. They know when the police are coming to them."

Maj. Joe Montminy of the Charles County Sheriff's Office, agreed.

"It's pretty sophisticated," he told The Post. "They have lookouts, and they know we're coming for miles."

Relatives and friends of several of the victims returned to the crash site Sunday to erect memorials of flowers, crosses and candles.

Irma Harris, a friend of Gardner, brought balloons with pictures of race cars on what would have been his birthday.

"It's just grief," she said through tears. "It's just a hurting feeling to have him taken like that."

(Copyright by WTOP Radio and The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

WASHINGTON - The flat, straight stretch of suburban Maryland highway where eight street-racing fans were killed this weekend has long been a problem spot for reckless driving and underground races, according to residents and business owners in the area.
"The racing has been a known problem. ... to my knowledge, for 20-plus years," Stan Fetter, president of the Indian Head Highway Area Action Council, said Sunday....

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=708&sid=1346509

[fishwax]

32. how fast was he going?

This is the first story I've actually read about this, and it doesn't say he was speeding. He wasn't charged with anything ...

[slackmaster]

39. Fast enough that he was unable to stop in time for an unexpected road hazard

Hard enough not to just hit, but KILL eight people.

That's too fast.

I don't know about Maryland, but in California we have a section of the Vehicle Code called the "Basic Speed Law" which says you can't drive too fast for the conditions.

[fishwax]

70. but we don't really know what conditions were

how thick the smoke was or how suddenly it appeared, etc. If he was driving recklessly, I'm sure it will come out in the investigation, but as of yet he hasn't been charged.

[slackmaster]

108. When I see smoke ahead, I slow down.

If he was driving recklessly, I'm sure it will come out in the investigation, but as of yet he hasn't been charged.

He may well not have been driving recklessly. I don't think there is enough information to say for sure.

[fishwax]

130. As you should. But we still don't know what conditions were or whether he was driving too fast

for those conditions. (We don't even know how fast he was going.)

Not every accident is a result of driving too fast for conditions. If this one was (or if he was driving recklessly in some other way) it will, as I said, presumably come out in the investigation.

[slackmaster]

133. My opinion is that he was driving too fast for the conditions

It's just an opinion.

[BadgerLaw2010]

71. So you normally drive 10-20 MPH below the speed limit on the highway at night?

That's what it would take to not kill someone in this situation. Otherwise, your speed > your headlights and physics trumps your argument.

[slackmaster]

88. I drive at speeds that I judge to be safe for the conditions, and legal

:hi:

[seabeyond]

140. condition wasnt there to drive to UNTIL he was upon the condition of a group of people

standing in the middle of road. NO ONE would progress forward at all in a car if we were driving by possibilities regardless of how small, like a group of 50 standing in the middle of a highway in the middle of night.

the people standing in the middle of a road period, in the dark, period, at 4 am are at fault

[slackmaster]

145. I have never said the people standing in the middle of the road were not at fault

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

153. to suggest this driver should drive at the speed to stop at the possibility of a group of adults

standing in the middle of the road at 4 am would have all drivers going at about 30. and that depends on reflex and the mind actually acknowledging that it is really a big group of people standing in the middle of a friggin highway

[slackmaster]

154. Why would reacting to a group of people be any different than reacting to a fallen tree?

They do get fallen trees in PG County. I'm quite sure of that.

[seabeyond]

157. blows my mind a group of adults standing in middle of highway at 4 am

[slackmaster]

158. Would it blow your mind to the extent that you lost your ability to drive safely?

Maybe for an inexperienced driver, I suppose.

[seabeyond]

160. there is no where suggesting this person was not able to drive safely

only that he was not able to stop in time.

[slackmaster]

162. Not being able to stop in time suggests he might have been going too fast for the conditions

That's all I am saying.

[seabeyond]

164. o.k. n/t

[treestar]

176. Because the group of people supposedly have brains

It is far more unexpected that a group of people who should know better will be doing such a stupid thing as standing in the road. Yet we would expect, in storm conditions, that there might be fallen branches. Fallen branches can't think about it and get themselves off the road, so their presence might be reasonably foreseeable.

[slackmaster]

177. It's hard to underestimate the stupidity of the average person

And half of them are even dumber than that.

[brentspeak]

128. Normally, when a several-ton vehicle, travelling at the speed limit

makes contact with a human being, the latter will end up being killed.

You were aware of this, right?

[slackmaster]

135. Yes, any velocity significantly above zero carries enough kinetic energy to cause massive injury

Or death.

[seabeyond]

139. conditions being a group of adults standing in middle of highway???

ok. still calling bullshit. what adult stands in the middle of a highway, in the dark, at 4 am. stupid.

[slackmaster]

147. Stupid people stand in the middle of the highway at 4 AM

You may call it bullshit, but you cannot honestly say that it never happens.

[seabeyond]

150. then they had better not be surprised if there ass goes flying. obviously

it happens,.... cause it happened. it has nothing to do with the driver, and everything to do with the adults standing int he middle of a street at 4 in the morning, in the dark

[slackmaster]

152. Yeah well, that's just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.

[seabeyond]

155. nah... you are just trying to salvage an unsalvagable persecution of the only victim

in this story.

he is the only on that was not aware of what was happening. the people in the street were well aware they were standing in the middle of a friggin hiway where cars drive at 55 mph and can hit them dead yet THEY continued to stand there in dangers way

[slackmaster]

159. It's my opinion that the guy was driving too fast and/or was inattentive

I don't understand why you are getting into such a frenzy about it.

...the people in the street were well aware they were standing in the middle of a friggin hiway where cars drive at 55 mph and can hit them dead yet THEY continued to stand there in dangers way

They were dumbasses.

[XOKCowboy]

148. You're a cop aren't ya?

That's the SOP for LE when there's an accident. If you hit anything while driving (a deer, fallen tree, crowd of street racing spectators) then you're driving "too fast for the conditions".

Nothing against cops but I've heard it too many times.

[slackmaster]

184. I'm not an LEO but it's often true

Not always, but often.

[Captain Hilts]

19. Reports say he didn't have his headlights on. nt

[Critters2]

67. The police say he did. Read the article. nt

[slackmaster]

5. Sounds like an excuse a 6-year-old would use

I was TRYING not to throw my ball through that window!

[MH1]

7. Except in this case someone moved the window onto the ball field.

And the 6 year old still got punished for breaking it.

[slackmaster]

12. My standard for driving at night is to be able to stop within the field lit by my headlights

Why is this concept so hard to understand for some people?

[zorahopkins]

14. Good For You

May you never hit a dear or anything else at night.

What, by the way, is the maximum speed you drive at night on the interstate in the country?

[slackmaster]

29. My speed on an interstate in the country at night depends on the conditions

If it's well-lighted like most of the major ones here in California, the road is straight, conditions are dry, the wind is light, I might go as much as 70 MPH at night.

In poorer conditions I reduce my speed.

BTW, a deer that suddenly jumps into the road from the shadows is not the same thing as a bunch of people milling around in the road (which I have encountered a few times).

[RamboLiberal]

40. I've come across animals standing in the middle of the road

and it is slam on your brakes, hit your horn if possible and pray time! And no I wasn't speeding!

[slackmaster]

41. Me too, and the only one I've ever hit was a squirrel

In the middle of my lane on the freeway in broad daylight in Pennsylvania. There was no way I could safely have avoided hitting it.

[zorahopkins]

53. 70 mph? At Night? In California?

According to http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs19thru22.htm , "the maximum speed limit on most California highways is 65 mph. You may drive 70 mph where posted."

I'm sure you always observe the proper speed limit.

And, according to http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/stopping-distances.htm , the stopping distance for a car on dry pavement at 70 mph, is about 315 feet -- about the length of a football field.

[slackmaster]

61. 70 at night where it's allowed is perfectly reasonable

Assuming there are no aggravating circumstances like fog.

:hi:

[BadgerLaw2010]

72. You just contradicted yourself. You can't stop at 70 in your lights, period.

45 is the realistic maximum. 65 isn't going to happen, let alone anything over that. If you see something in your lights, you will hit it, and if it is biological, you will kill it.

So which is it? Driving the speed limit on a highway at night is "too fast for conditions" or " 70 MPH at night is "perfectly reasonable."

[slackmaster]

86. Did you miss the parts about many California freeways being well lit?

The ones that allow 70 MPH sure as heck are. You can often see a half mile ahead.

[Xithras]

80. 70MPH is the average highway speed in California

Speed limits are rarely enforced outside of the urban areas. I commuted to work at 95MPH every day for years (doing only slightly faster than the flow of traffic) and was never cited.

Californians don't slow down at night...or in the fog. That's why you hear about so many 20 car pileups out here :)

If you drive 65MPH on a freeway out here you'll be passed by every other car and semi on the road, and you'll see so many birds it'll feel like a rolling Audubon convention.

[Occulus]

16. Because we're all not as fucking perfect as you, Your Excellency

:eyes:

[slackmaster]

31. I've been driving since 1974 and learned from a few very hard lessons

:hi:

[Occulus]

49. Yeah

So I saw.

[slackmaster]

50. Please list all the things you have run into

:hi:

[Occulus]

56. I am not your monkey and this is not about anyone's driving record, his, yours, or mine

so stop trying to change the subject to discredit people with whom you happen to (wrongly) disagree.

Police involved have already apparently settled the question of fault, and they're better than you or I in determining that sort of thing. I'd say that means the driver of the car wasn't doing anything at all wrong (i.e., wasn't driving too fast, tried to stop, wasn't violating any road laws, etc.).

I'd say that also means that, in this case, you're completely full of it.

[slackmaster]

59. You're saying someone who drove a car into a crowd and killed 8 people didn't do anything wrong

And you're telling ME that I'M full of it?

:rofl:

[Occulus]

68. What, exactly, was the driver doing wrong?

You keep saying he was driving too fast, but the police apparently disagree on that point.

You, by the way, are implying there's nothing 'wrong' with standing in the middle of an open road in the dead of night. Who's more at fault- the driver, who was driving legally and safely, or the crowd, standing where they shouldn't ever have been standing?

[slackmaster]

87. The fact that the guy hasn't been cited or charged YET means nothing

You, by the way, are implying there's nothing 'wrong' with standing in the middle of an open road in the dead of night.

That's a pretty major logical disconnect from anything I wrote. In another thread I pointed out that those people were dumbasses.

[LanternWaste]

84. Seems to me that...

Seems to me that (all other things being equal), one party was well within the limits of reasonable expectations and the other party wasn't.

If the driver was driving within the posted speed limit and was not engaged in illegal driving patterns in any way, then the moral responsibility would seem to fall on those whose activities exceeded far beyond any reasonable expectations (in this case, using the highway as a spectators stand).

[slackmaster]

185. It turns out the driver was indeed engaged in illegal driving patterns

He shouldn't have been driving at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2896158

[RamboLiberal]

17. You weren't there

Love all you perfect drivers. I consider myself a safe driver but I've sure had a pedestrian or an animal pop up in my headlights at the last minute on a dark road and I've had my heart in my throat. One night driving about 25 mph a doberman was standing in the middle of the road and I slammed on my brakes and still clipped the dog. He ran off, I think he did survive though. Another night doing about 30-35 a deer was in the middle of the road. Caught the animal with the left front side. The deer took off and I was picking deer hair out of the side panel. No damage to the car. But having driven for 40 years I know on a dark night on a highway people and animals pop up in the headlights last second.

Guess you drive down a 4 lane at 3-4 AM doing 40 mph? That's the speed low beams headlights can cover. If I was you I'd watch out for a tractor-trailer running up you butt if you're going that slow on a 4 lane.

BTW, cops think smoke and debris reduced this driver's ability to see the morons in the road. He may not remember it but chances are since the cops are saying this from the start it may be true.

[slackmaster]

33. I never claimed to be a perfect driver, but I have almost 25 years of clean record

Guess you drive down a 4 lane at 3-4 AM doing 40 mph? That's the speed low beams headlights can cover.

Why would one be using low beams at night on a divided highway?

[RamboLiberal]

43. High beams give you another 150 feet

Opposing traffic can have you going to low beams. Even late at night I find with opposing traffic it's hard to have the high beams on for more than a minute or two at most. You ever considered at 4am reaction times may be slowed? He's a young driver who only has a couple years experience at most. He may be tired. He's not expecting people in the middle of the road. He's talking to his brother.

I'm sure you're a perfect driver every second you're in the car.

I've got a safe driving record to equal yours but I'm not as arrogant to think I may never find myself in a situation like this.

[slackmaster]

46. Slowed reaction, distraction, and being tired are all reasons to slow down

I've got a safe driving record to equal yours but I'm not as arrogant to think I may never find myself in a situation like this.

And I'm not so tenderhearted as to give someone slack for getting into a major car wreck because he's tired or distracted or inexperienced. I feel sorry for him, and I sincerely hope this experience makes him a better driver.

[Captain Hilts]

18. This idiot supposedly didn't have his headlights on. nt

[zorahopkins]

20. Yes, He Did

The reports I have seen indicated that he did have his headlights on.

The people he hit were STANDING IN THE ROADWAY in the middle of the night.

[Captain Hilts]

22. Reports I've seen - I live in MD - say he did not have his lights on, perhaps to film the race. nt

[RamboLiberal]

23. He wasn't part of the race - he happened on the scene

Pay attention Mookie - you were the one who a week ago was arguing Alison Stewart wasn't the one on KO show who dissed the dress Wendy Vitter was wearing - suggest you search You Tube - I posted correction to you in that thread with You Tube link. You don't check the facts well.

[Bentcorner]

25. Link to these reports. Where does it say that he did not have his headlights on?

[Captain Hilts]

30. It's been all over the local news broadcasts. I said 'supposedly'. ...

But what was he doing out driving around at 3am?

He gives a reason and he's off the hook.

[RamboLiberal]

34. Excuse me - when did it become illegal to drive at 3am

If you read the frickin' story it said he was picking up his brother from some band gig. Last I checked bands do play till 2am or so.

The morons racing on a public highway were the ones doing the illegal deed.

[Captain Hilts]

180. When your license has been suspended for repeated speeding violations....

including going 30mph over the speed limit.

[Bentcorner]

38. Then it should be really easy for you to link to. And why does he need to give a reason for driving

that late at night?

[TZ]

42. The police have cleared him

I have heard that on the local news about 1000 times. If he didn't have his headlights on, I think that would have come out by now.

[slackmaster]

65. No they have not

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2889831&mesg_id=2890354

[Occulus]

47. What the hell- wow, man, oh wow.....

I have truly seen it all now...

"But what was he doing out driving around at 3am?"

Why the bloody hell does it matter? Last I knew, if you have a driver's license, a car, and some gas, and aren't on a tether or some shit like that (I feel I have to be specific for the deliberately obtuse fucknits on the thread), if you want to drive somewhere, you can, no questions asked, anytime you goddamn good and well please.

I just cannot believe I'm seeing some of the things I'm seeing on this thread, your comment included. What's with all the people on this thread seemingly looking for an easy excuse to punish the hell out of this guy?

[seabeyond]

142. yet ignore a bunch of adults standing in a street, int he dark at night.

seems really really beyond odd to me too

[BadgerLaw2010]

75. Off what "hook?" Last I checked, people are free to drive at night.

This guy isn't on a hook. He's aparently catatonic because he killed eight people, but he's not in trouble.

[slackmaster]

186. Actually, he is in very deep trouble

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2896158

[RamboLiberal]

21. Cops haven't said yes or no on this yet

That was 2 of those in the middle of the road who said that. Witnesses in these cases are not reliable. Let the police investigators figure this one out. They'll know from the lights and the switches whether this was the case. They haven't charged the driver and so far have said no charges are pending. If he was driving w/o lights the cops would charge him.

[slackmaster]

35. I've read both that he did and that he didn't

The fact that he hit 8 people is pretty good evidence that he was going too fast for the conditions.

[RamboLiberal]

45. Then the cops would've charged him with reckless driving

Glad you are the PERFECT DRIVER on DU.

[slackmaster]

51. The fact that he hasn't been charged doesn't mean he won't be

Glad you are the PERFECT DRIVER on DU.

Straw Man.

[RamboLiberal]

62. Love to know your accident investigator credentials

I say let the cops sort this out. Even if he's not charged his life will be somewhat ruined. And you know he will be sued even though the morons who stood in the middle of a dark road at 3 am to watch an illegal race are more to blame IMHO.

[Occulus]

52. "Crowd in the street" is not a "road condition"

You really really really want to find legitimate fault with this poor guy, don't you?

Next you'll be asking why he wasn't given a breath test.

[slackmaster]

54. Anything that affects your ability to drive safely is a road condition

Next you'll be asking why he wasn't given a breath test.

Now that you mention it, I do wonder why. If this had happened in California, you can bet the CHP would have done so.

[RamboLiberal]

64. I haven't read anywhere that he wasn't given a breath or blood test

I'd bet he was given one or the other. Fairly standard in these situations.

[kwolf68]

77. LMMFAO

This poster has done nothing but blame the driver of the car. Simply unreal.

[BadgerLaw2010]

That and make physically impossible statements about how he drives "carefully" at 70 at night.

[slackmaster]

92. It figures someone from Wisconsin would have no clue what a California freeway looks like

:hi:

[LanternWaste]

85. Or, it's pretty good evidence

Or, it's pretty good evidence that pedestrians were using a highway for something other than its intended role...

[slackmaster]

94. I have never said the people in the road were doing nothing wrong

Their behavior contributed heavily to their getting hit. But the driver was going too fast for the situation, otherwise he could have stopped in time.

[LanternWaste]

100. How fast was he going?

How fast was he going? Too fast would be above the speed limit.
Anything else is merely conjecture...

[slackmaster]

102. He was going fast enough that he was unable to stop in time

That's how fast he was going.

Too fast would be above the speed limit.
Anything else is merely conjecture...

You may be right. I'm not familiar with Maryland traffic laws.

Here in California if you hit something (e.g. rear-ending a slow or stopped vehicle) you are presumed automatically to have been in violation of the Basic Speed Law unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Here's the applicable section of the California Vehicle Code:

Basic Speed Law

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

Amended Ch. 252, Stats. 1963. Effective September 20, 1963.

[LanternWaste]

104. maybe he was going slow enough to stop prior to hitting anything

Or... maybe he was going slow enough to stop prior to hitting anything within the realms reasonable expectations. I don't think that anyone using a highway as a spectator stand falls within the realms of reasonable expectations.

It seems obvious to me that the burden of both cause and consequence lies with those who broke the law in this case, not with the individual who (as it is becoming more and more clear) was well within anyone's expectations of reasonable behavior.

[slackmaster]

106. At no point have I said that the driver was negligent or broke the law

Only that he was going too fast for the conditions.

The people standing in the road were obviously breaking the law, and are obviously culpable.

[Javaman]

79. Does that apply to deer running infront of your car?

try that sometime. I seriously doubt you will be able to stop intime.

[slackmaster]

95. A deer jumping in front of you is not the same as a crowd of people milling around

I agree that it's often impossible to avoid hitting a deer.

But it is usually possible to avoid hitting a fallen tree or a mudslide or an overturned tractor/trailer rig, IF you are paying attention and not driving too fast for the conditions.

[Javaman]

111. LOL you are a pisser...

man, either you drive under 25 miles an hour and never have encountered pea soup fog or you are just day dreaming.

have a truly smashing day! LOL

[slackmaster]

113. I live in San Diego, and you think I've never run into pea soup fog?

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

141. then dont drive cause that isnt possible. n/t

[LisaM]

15. Where does it say he was speeding?

I didn't realize till now that the people were standing IN the road. In my home town, there was a brief trend of people purposely lying in the road, then jumping up when a car came. Well, one dolt didn't make it in time, and the trend ended. Let's hope that this will put a stop to street racing, at least in that part of the country.

[AndyA]

26. I think it's really hard to know exactly what happened if you weren't there.

Certainly the adults standing in the middle of the highway at night were not acting responsibly, and should not have been there. Period.

The drag race was illegal, and should not have happened. Period.

And if the guy was going the speed limit, he was no doubt over driving his headlights. I forgot what the speed limit is, but it's not much at night even with high beams on. And anyone who's ever been in a car when a deer has darted out in front of it, or come around a dark corner to find a cow standing in the road, or climax a hill only to find a crowd of people standing in the road knows that there's little you can do except hit the brakes and pray.

This is a tragic accident, but I don't blame the driver for it if he had his lights on and wasn't speeding. The people standing in the middle of the highway are to blame. Had they not been there, no accident.

[slackmaster]

36. "Over-driving his headlights" is a perfect and fair description of how he was driving

:hi:

[kwassa]

44. how the hell would you know? You weren't there.

There is damn little information about what exactly happened, as the investigation isn't complete, and all we have so far is incomplete statements by those who may not even know. This driver might be culpable, he might not, but jumping to judgement is pointless without facts.

If the two race cars did send up a cloud from the burnt rubber of their tires that completely obscured the crowd, it could well be like a sudden fog or dust storm encountered on a busy highway that causes massive automobile pile-ups. These happen every year on roads around our country. Ever encountered a sudden fog on a country road?

That cloud could have drifted up the road away before the driver of the Crown Vic encountered it, and made the people behind it completely invisible.

[slackmaster]

48. The fact that he RAN INTO a stationary crowd of people proves he was going too fast

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, doesn't anyone know how to drive any more?

[kwassa]

55. No, it doesn't actually.

He might have been travelling at a safe speed for the conditions, but the conditions may have suddenly changed too quickly for him to compensate and reduce speed in time. (I see you ignored my example completely, by the way.)

edit to add:

http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmej/9801/rm980101.htm

National Cooperative Highway Research Program (NCHRP)
Synthesis of Highway Practice 228:
Reduced Visibility Due to Fog on the Highway, A Synthesis of Highway Practice

Summary

In the United States during 1990 and 1991, four multiple-vehicle accidents (involving more than 240 vehicles) caused by reduced visibility conditions resulted in 21 fatalities. Such catastrophic accidents dramatize the hazard of reduced visibility on the highway caused by fog, dust, or smoke. The extreme variability in density, predictability, and location of the hazard further complicates the task of improving highway safety conditions.

Much of the problem stems from inadequate traffic control techniques to provide specific behavior guidance for drivers in areas of reduced visibility, and from the unpredictability of when and where those techniques are needed. Also of great concern erratic driver behaviors, including excessive or variable speeds, following too closely, or stopping on the roadway, which increase potential for accidents. Once an accident occurs, reduced visibility increases the likelihood of secondary accidents, where vehicles collide with those already involved.

[RamboLiberal]

58. Just you - guess you're the only perfect driver here

The rest of us got our license from a Cracker Jack box.

[slackmaster]

60. Please point out where I have ever said I was a perfect driver

Otherwise you're just flaming impotently.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

90. Experienced drivers are prepared for unexpected hazards at all times

People who plow into things on dry pavement when visibility is good, have some learning to do.

Calling me a "tool" is a personal attack BTW. I expect better from you.

[Javaman]

91. So are robots. Have fun eating your circuits. nt

[slackmaster]

96. Too bad you can't discuss this without making personal attacks

:shrug:

[Javaman]

98. I know you are but what am I? nt

[northzax]

66. the speed limit on the road is 55

it is a divided highway with on and off ramps. I assume you never drive over 40 on the highway at night?

[BadgerLaw2010]

73. At 55 MPH, you can't stop inside standard headlights even with perfect reaction time.

This argument is stupid. Physics wins, dumb statements about "careful driving" lose.

[northzax]

78. ok, so what's the correct speed?

45? 40?

[BadgerLaw2010]

81. Realistically, 40. 45 if you are a machine.

Anything faster and you'll hit whatever it is.

[RamboLiberal]

122. You got that right n/t

[BreweryYardRat]

192. And if you do 40-45 on a highway in a major state like Cali or Florida, expect gunfire at some point

Even at night. Also, enough honking to attract geese from three states away.

(No, it's not aimed at you, it's at the people who think glacial speeds are acceptable.)

[RamboLiberal]

57. Cops say it will take several weeks to complete the investigation

Prince George's County State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey (D) said yesterday that it might take weeks to determine exactly what happened Saturday and whether anyone will face criminal charges.

"It's too early to make a final decision," Ivey said. "I want to wait for the interviews to be completed and the reconstruction report."

Collision reconstruction work typically takes several weeks as detectives measure skid marks, examine vehicles and interview witnesses.

----

(Young man's uncle). Walls said Bullock told him that the car's lights were on and that he doesn't remember seeing smoke. He also dismissed a rumor that the crash occurred during, or after, a police chase. He said Bullock was not driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs, was wearing a seat belt and believes he was going between 50 and 60 mph.

(and no he doesn't have a perfect driving record)

According to court records, Bullock has had a few brushes with the law. He pleaded guilty in October 2006 to malicious destruction of property. In February 2007, he was charged with misdemeanor theft. Later that year, in May, he was issued two traffic citations, one for driving on a suspended license and another for having an unrestrained child in a vehicle.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021802421_2.html?sid=ST2008021602560

I still say let the cops sort this out. I do have respect for accident investigators in getting to the bottom of exactly happened.

[slackmaster]

63. I agree, let the system work through the process

:nuke:

[RamboLiberal]

69. And then we have the spectators who won't talk to the cops

A college student who was at Saturday's tragic street race where eight people were killed-on Route 210, in Accokeek has sent me a video of the first race that occurred that early morning.

It was the second race at the very same location that ended with a third car coming up behind the crowd, that had spilled into the street, and plowed into the unsuspecting spectators.

About 20 men who were watching the races agreed to meet with 9NEWS NOW at a secret location in Maryland Monday to tell us what they saw.

They are afraid of talking to police because they fear charges will be brought against them for being part of the illegal street racing activity. They admit that for years they have been drivers, spectators and bettors at the races.

They claim the 20 year old driver of the Crown Victoria that slammed into them was driving at a high rate of speed and didn't have his lights on. Prince George's County Police say thus far there is no evidence to show the driver violated any laws. For more information go to Bruce Johnson's Blog.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=68716

[LisaM]

116. "Unsuspecting" spectators?

They didn't suspect that if they were in the road, a car might come along?

So they have no more brains than a fallen tree branch?

BTW, it makes a case for having different day/night speed limits, which would be a really good idea on country roads. My relatives live near there, and they've all hit deer at one time or another.

[kwolf68]

82. This is really amazing

How is there even a 'debate' here. People were standing in the middle of the street in the middle of the night. If they were not in the middle of the road, no one would have gotten hit. Simple as that. Had they been doing something that was NOT illegal they'd all be alive today.

Yet here we are debating if this driver was going to fast. What a joke. These people choose to partake in a risky and dangerous venture (that is also illegal). Unfortunately for them, some paid with their lives. It is their own fault.

Maybe next week, the survivors will stay at home in bed where they belong instead of engaging in illegal and utterly dangerous activities.

[slackmaster]

97. Substitute "fallen tree" for "crowd of stupid people"

If you hit it, that's a strong indication you were driving too fast for the conditions.

There is no debate about that.

[slackmaster]

99. There sure are a lot of people in this thread who don't grasp basic driving concepts

Must be the result of the decline of publicly funded driver education.

For that, I blame the Republicans and George W. Bush.

[kwassa]

107. You don't grasp one of them.

and I noticed you have made zero attempt to address it, either.


to repeat:

He might have been travelling at a safe speed for the conditions, but the conditions may have suddenly changed too quickly for him to compensate and reduce speed in time, as in the reports of smoke from burning tires covering the roadway.

Got it? Understand it now? Care to respond to it this time?

http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmej/9801/rm980101.htm

National Cooperative Highway Research Program (NCHRP)
Synthesis of Highway Practice 228:
Reduced Visibility Due to Fog on the Highway, A Synthesis of Highway Practice

Summary

In the United States during 1990 and 1991, four multiple-vehicle accidents (involving more than 240 vehicles) caused by reduced visibility conditions resulted in 21 fatalities. Such catastrophic accidents dramatize the hazard of reduced visibility on the highway caused by fog, dust, or smoke. The extreme variability in density, predictability, and location of the hazard further complicates the task of improving highway safety conditions.

Much of the problem stems from inadequate traffic control techniques to provide specific behavior guidance for drivers in areas of reduced visibility, and from the unpredictability of when and where those techniques are needed. Also of great concern erratic driver behaviors, including excessive or variable speeds, following too closely, or stopping on the roadway, which increase potential for accidents. Once an accident occurs, reduced visibility increases the likelihood of secondary accidents, where vehicles collide with those already involved.

[slackmaster]

109. I've based my opinion on what I have read about the incident

I'm quite accustomed to having sudden decreases in visibility due to things like fog and smoke. It happens a lot where I live.

As I have said elsewhere, I'm not saying the driver necessarily did anything negligent or criminal. Only that he was driving too fast for the conditions. And it's not like he couldn't have been aware that the area wasn't sometimes used for illegal street racing.

[walldude]

115. Man, there is no debating that logic..

Crowd of people standing in the middle of the road on a divided highway in the dark at 4am watching an illegal drag race. Yet in every one of your posts you seem to blame the driver for going too fast. Logic at it's best.
Once in Amsterdam I was in a cab and the driver got too close to a guy on a bicycle(who was in the bike lane, but maybe he was going too fast :eyes: ) and hit him with his rear view mirror. So the guy on the bike is laying on the ground bleeding and the cabbie gets out and starts screaming at him for breaking his mirror. You kind of remind me of that cabbie.

[slackmaster]

117. Deadly Crash Sheds Light on Illegal Race Circuit

...Long-time Accokeek resident Mary Traverse says the drag races have been going on for more than 20 years. Racers sometimes practice on her street, less than two blocks from the crash site, she says, and have even blocked her access to the highway — once when she was trying to rush her child to the hospital for an asthma attack.

"I have been complaining to the police for years. In fact, about three weeks ago I complained about this noise and these incidents, so it takes something like this to happen to bring media and police to come down here," Traverse said. "It's not safe for the community, and it's encouraging people to risk their lives and other people's lives."...

Sounds like a rather well-known road hazard.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19168301

[walldude]

119. So when there is a serial rapist at large any woman who is

fool enough to go outside gets what she deserves? Because it's a well known hazard? That's an extreme example but basically the same argument. Sorry, not buying it. Once all the facts are in, unless it's proven that the driver is a DUI, then this was an accident that he did not deserve to have to live with. Whether he was speeding or not.

[slackmaster]

134. Red Herring

:hi:

[RamboLiberal]

121. Unless the DOT of Maryland put up Yellow road signs saying

"Moron Drag Racing Area" how is this a well known road hazard? I have no clue in my area unless I come across the road race that some morons may be illegally racing. We don't know how far from this area the driver lived. He may have been clueless. Wow you're sure making leaps of logic to blame the driver.

BTW story about the driver is from Waldorf, Maryland and the crash occurred in Accokeek, MD - according to Google Maps that's 10-15 miles. Driver not exactly from the neighborhood. Only people who would know about the racing besides the fans and racers is neighbors who live near the road. I wouldn't know about races that occur 10-15 miles from my house.

[slackmaster]

136. I don't rely on the California DOT to advise me of unusual road conditions

Usually someone other than DOT people come across road hazards. I've been the first lucky person on several occasions.

[kwassa]

125. Sounds like a very weak argument on your part.

If you read more, you would know the hazard has been high-speed motorcycle races in the summer time, not mid-winter car races.

[kwassa]

126. You are still ignoring my argument

and refuse to acknowledge that smoke or fog can INSTANTLY change visibility.

You hide behind "driving too fast for the conditions" when no reasonable person could expect conditions to instantly change.

[slackmaster]

132. I've read your opinion, and I disagree with it

:shrug:

You hide behind "driving too fast for the conditions" when no reasonable person could expect conditions to instantly change.

No True Scotsman Fallacy.

[kwassa]

137. You haven't refuted it, and have failed to address the point at all.

and invoking a fallacy that doesn't apply is not an argument. Invoking a fallacy that does apply is not an argument, either.

Our entire system of law is BASED on the expected behavior of reasonable people, and what is and is not reasonable. If that is No True Scotsman, then you'll have to take on our entire legal system.

[slackmaster]

143. I was not aware that I had any obligation to address your point

Our entire system of law is BASED on the expected behavior of reasonable people, and what is and is not reasonable.

I think good drivers give constant attention to road conditions, and drive in a manner that allows them to respond promptly to unexpected road hazards. Even bizarre, totally unexpected hazards. Good drivers only rarely run into things.

What's unreasonable about that?

[kwassa]

156. No, and no obligation to be rational, either.

I think good drivers give constant attention to road conditions, and drive in a manner that allows them to respond promptly to unexpected road hazards. Even bizarre, totally unexpected hazards. Good drivers only rarely run into things.

What's unreasonable about that?

What is unreasonable is that a prompt response to certain hazards will save anyone. That is wildly unreasonable, and is, in fact, false.

as in many examples already given, including fog, smoke and dust. Your failure to address these shows the basic unreasonability of your claim. Also, the failure of your argument altogether. You don't address them because you can't.

[slackmaster]

161. I've encountered fog, smoke, dust, blowing sand, and many other sudden road hazards

Somehow I have managed not to get into an accident because of such things.

Also, the failure of your argument altogether.

What "argument"? All I have done is express an opinion, based on my reading of the available information and my own experiences in 34 years of driving.

If you don't agree with my opinion, that's fine. We can have differing viewpoints without having one of us necessarily be irrational.

What is your problem, anyway?

[kwassa]

166. My problem is your assertion of what a good driver is.

Your irrationality is your claim that a good driver could always stop in time.

The world isn't just your personal experience. Other things happen to other people, and denying the experience of others is irrational, which is what you are doing in this thread. Your ability to stop in all the situations you've encountered can be simply good luck on your part. There are road situations where nobody can stop or be in control, and you refuse to acknowledge that, simply because it hasn't happened to you.

Glare ice or black ice is one of the most common forms of these, situations where the ice is both unknown and invisible. Sudden fogs and dust storms where visibility goes from fine to none in seconds is another form. But, it hasn't happened to you, so it doesn't exist.

[slackmaster]

170. Where did I say that a good driver could "always stop in time"?

:shrug:

Glare ice or black ice is one of the most common forms of these, situations where the ice is both unknown and invisible.

The article cited in the OP didn't say anything about ice being a factor in this accident. Did I miss something?

Sudden fogs and dust storms where visibility goes from fine to none in seconds is another form. But, it hasn't happened to you, so it doesn't exist.

I've mentioned several times that I have encountered sudden fog, etc. So your petty little personal jab has no reasonable basis.

All I have said about this accident is that I think the driver may have been going too fast for the conditions.

[kwassa]

179. so, we narrow it down a little bit.

Sudden fogs and dust storms where visibility goes from fine to none in seconds is another form. But, it hasn't happened to you, so it doesn't exist.

I've mentioned several times that I have encountered sudden fog, etc. So your petty little personal jab has no reasonable basis.

oh, but you are still traveling on your false assumption, that the sudden fog you encountered is like the sudden fog that everyone else has encountered. That is not the slightest bit reasonable, is it? Are all fogs alike? Equal density? Encountered equally quickly or slowly? Same terrain?

I can cite many mass car pile-ups in fog banks, if you like. You ignored a cite I already made, so that doesn't seem to be a reasonable thing to do, does it?

You said the driver outran his headlights. True. How far do headlights penetrate a thick cloud of smoke? A few feet?

[slackmaster]

183. I've never had a fog bank surround me unexpectedly

When I see one up ahead, I slow down before entering it. Don't you?

You said the driver outran his headlights. True. How far do headlights penetrate a thick cloud of smoke? A few feet?

If you can see ahead only a few feet, you should reduce speed to maybe 1-2 MPH. I've had to do that in pea soup fog many, many times. I've been in desert sandstorms where visibility dropped to literally zero in a very short time, but not without warning. When that kind of thing happens, you should already be stopped when visibility hits zero.

And somehow I've always managed not to run into other cars that were stopped or going slow ahead of me in the fog.

[kwassa]

187. and what if you don't have the opportunity to see it up ahead?

I have had a fog bank surround me unexpectedly, by the way, by driving down into a low area, a hollow, so to speak, where the fog could not be seen until seconds before it was entered. It was impossible to achieve a safe speed as quickly as the fog was encountered.

If you can see ahead only a few feet, you should reduce speed to maybe 1-2 MPH. I've had to do that in pea soup fog many, many times. I've been in desert sandstorms where visibility dropped to literally zero in a very short time, but not without warning. When that kind of thing happens, you should already be stopped when visibility hits zero.

So, your belief is that they can't happen without warning?

This seems to be the key to this whole discussion. You don't think this is possible. Correct?

[slackmaster]

188. Sounds like you were going too fast for the conditions

:smoke:

I'll bet that experience changed the way you approach driving in that particular spot, now that you know that fog can form there.

So, your belief is that they can't happen without warning?

No. A deer can jump out in front of you without warning. Many things can occur without warning. But finding yourself driving into a crowd of dozens of adults milling around on a straight highway is not one of them.

[kwassa]

189. That pat answer of yours covers everything, doesn't it?

Many things can occur without warning. But finding yourself driving into a crowd of dozens of adults milling around on a straight highway is not one of them.

Unless there is a cloud of tire smoke between you and them, and they are invisible. There is no reason to expect people inside that cloud, standing on the roadway.

I call that without warning.

[slackmaster]

190. I believe a prudent driver would have slowed down when he saw the cloud of smoke

There is no reason to expect people inside that cloud, standing on the roadway.

Not necessarily people, but a smoke cloud usually indicates that something is amiss, like perhaps a vehicle fire. In any case it's something that is going to reduce your visibility, therefore the reasonable response is to slow down well before entering the cloud. Or to stop if the smoke is so thick you can't see through it at all. It doesn't make any sense to plow into it at speed and assume there's nothing inside.

Of course we now know we are talking about a driver with a well-established history of less than prudent driving.

[kwassa]

193. you assume that it could be clearly seen in time to stop

but you have made a ton of assumptions since this thread started, and continue to do so now. You assume there was time to stop, that there was a clear sight line a long way down the road so that it could be seen, and that the smoke didn't suddenly occur as a result of the burning tires.

The sequence of events is unknown, as well as most factors in this accident. This has not prevented you from making essentially unsupported judgment about the driver's guilt, based only on your driving experience, and not facts, because those facts are unknown. That is both unreasonable and irrational, because you have no evidence.

[slackmaster]

195. Conditions that would make the cloud not clearly visible would also call for slowing down

The sequence of events is unknown...

Other than the fact that the guy was driving on a suspended license after getting busted for major speeding at least twice; and that he ran into a bunch of people.

:dunce:

[lanlady]

118. lots of rancor on this thread

Damn, why's everyone is such a foul mood?

None of us was there to observe the behavior of the driver, what speed he was doing, the road conditions, or whether his lights were on. We simply don't know.

What we do know is that a crowd of adults, some with very young children in tow, was standing in the middle of a public 4-lane road at 4 am watching an illegal drag race. It seems a tragedy like this was almost bound to happen, no? Someone was going to get killed one of these days.

Hopefully the cops will get serious and crack down on this nonsense.

[CRF450]

120. Why the hell are some of ya'll making such a debate out of this??

It has clearly been said many times, that part of the road is an open highway with a speed limit of 55mph. Now in places like that people will usually drive 60-65mph. And none of the articles said wheather he had his high or low beams on, I suspect low beams, because you cannot see people anymore than 70ft ahead with low beams. With this curcumstance, it does not take rocket science to say that those morons are as good as dead by the time the driver see's them, even if he was just going 55mph. It takes most cars around 120 ft to come to a complete stop from 60-0, add another 30ft for the reaction time its takes for most drivers to slam on the brakes.

[slackmaster]

124. Most of them are just ornery

They'll use an opinion with which they disagree, as an excuse for lobbing personal attacks at the person who expressed it.

Just another day on DU.

[varkam]

123. Seems like both parties were at fault.

Bullock was probably going a bit too fast and/or not paying attention (and according to the article, may not of had his headlights on), and the spectators were standing in the middle of the road.

It's an accident. A tragic, gut-wrenching accident.

[rocktivity]

127. With all due respect to the driver's guardian

Unless he was a passenger in the car, he only has second hand information as to whether the headlights were on and there was smoke in the road.

:headbang:
rocknation

[AZBlue]

129. He's absolutely a victim!

One of the first things that occurred to me was how awful this must be for the driver. What a horrific thing to have happen to him and how is he going to live with this? I hope he's getting a lot of help and support. He's "responsible" for the death of 8 people, but it's not his fault at all - and one of those 8 was his brother! My heart goes out to him.

[Pastiche423]

131. When do we get the ignore feature back?

Anyone know? :shrug:

[XOKCowboy]

138. What is a "go-go band"?

Bullock was driving his brother home from go-go band practice on Route 210 shortly before 4 a.m. when he came up on the spectators standing in the road, Walls said. Bullock slammed on his brakes but his sedan slammed into the crowd that had gathered to watch two street racers speed off.

Another thing that strikes me about this is that most of the victims were in their 30s and 40s and one guy was 61! On a deserted road at 4AM street racing. They don't have bowling leagues in that mart of Maryland?

Not to make light of this horrible tragedy. At this point I think Bullock is the victim but I'm pretty sure more of the story is yet to come out.

[slackmaster]

144. I think it has something to do with cage dancers

[XOKCowboy]

149. They need to "practice" till 4AM?

Sorry to be facetious but I haven't heard the term "go-go" since the 60s.

[slackmaster]

151. Musicians tend to be eccentric people

In many ways.

[XOKCowboy]

167. You got that right...

[Dora]

165. Many musicians have day jobs and families.

When you're working all day, or into the night, often the only time all the members of a band can get together is late at night.

My husband came home from rehearsal at 12:00 last night. If he has a gig that ends when the bars close (2:00 a.m.), he doesn't come home until 3:00 a.m. or later.

[XOKCowboy]

168. Actually I'm very familiar with musician's lifestyles

Hanging out with musicians got me into what I do today. Now that someone's explained what a "go-go" band is I understand. I've driven home many a night in the wee hours after recording sessions or gigs. Still do actually. :)

[Dora]

173. Very good then. I misunderstood the tenor of your post.

:thumbsup:

[slackmaster]

178. I love a good musical pun!

I sang as a tenor in the school choir, madrigal ensemble, barbershop quartet and a church choir when I was in high school.

[Dora]

191. A pun TOTALLY unintended, no less! Good catch! nt

[northzax]

163. google "chuck brown"

and you'll see. Go-Go is music indigenous to the African American community in greater DC. a blend of rock, funk, hip hop and jazz.

[XOKCowboy]

169. Thank you that explains it.. Not the first time...

I've been ignorant of any kind of music that's not classic rock or country.

Like Slackmaster I had visions of girls in cages with fringed bikinis.

[Blue_Tires]

146. i believe him

my neighborhood is 25-35 mph (i dont speed through it), and i've lived here most of my life, and at least one night a week i come THIS close to hitting a random jogger/cyclist/drunk teen/kid because most of the roads are pooly lit and the teens and joggers always wear dark colors...

i've had to slam on my brakes several times, and I'm doing 30 mph...

[TahitiNut]

171. The next shoe has been dropped. Spin this one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2896158

[slackmaster]

172. Wow. Just wow.

But he couldn't possibly have been driving too fast for the conditions, according to some.

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

175. Yeah ... it seems some see him as the reincarnation of Joan of Arc. Bizarre.

:shrug:

[kwassa]

181. or some just like to assume that he was driving too fast based on no knowledge.

[slackmaster]

182. In my opinion, running into something is strong evidence that you were driving too fast

For the conditions.

It's not absolute proof. Just strong evidence.

That's how I was taught to drive.

YMMV.

If you disagree with my opinion, I will continue to treat you and your opinion with respect.

Is it too much to ask the same of you?

[LisaL]

194. I don't know if he is gonna be charged with anything or not.

But people aren't supposed to be on a highway.
Are you trying to argue that if a person who gets on a highway is hit, it's always the driver's fault, even though the person isn't supposed to be there?

[slackmaster]

196. Sounds like you are indulging in binary thinking - black or white, right or wrong

Is it not possible that both the people who were in the road illegally, AND the driver of the Crown Victoria, are to blame?

Did you ever consider that?

They've evidently held these nighttime races many times before, and never had anyone run over. Is it possible that other people driving on that highway managed to see the people in the road and stop?