Boy, Castro Must Be About Ready To Croak - You'd Think He'd Want To Wait It Out Another Year

[THUNDER HANDS]

Just to say he outlasted Bush, who he probably hates more than any other U.S. president he's outlasted.

[Ian David]

1. He's resigning to spend more time oppressing his family. n/t

[rinsd]

2. !!!

:spray:

[Joe Chi Minh]

5. He's surely going to a better place than his critics are likely to see.

[Ian David]

6. Oh, Puh-LEAZE! Castro is a tyrant. Yes, as a country we've over-reacted to him in a huge way...

but let's not be holding him up as some sort of Utopian saint of Cigars and Health Care.

[Joe Chi Minh]

8. Interesting that you should show such bluntness of moral perception

that you would ridicule his regime's gift of free universal health care to all (not just in Cuba, I might add, but in South America), because his country makes and sells cigars.

As for the tyranny, it is an inevitable by-product of living so close to such a tyrannical super-power, and being subject to its constant attempts to undermine its government and assassinate its chief minister.

To quote from an article in today's Pravda (just found it. One for My Favourites):

"When the former Mexican dictator Porfirio Diaz said a century ago: “Poor Mexico! So far from God, and so close to the United States”, he did not know that he would speak for the whole Latin America 100 years later. Despite the countless natural resources of the region, more than 40% of its population –around 200 million souls- lives in poverty. Moreover, Latin America is the most unequal region of the world, according to an United Nations recent research."

When the former Mexican dictator Porfirio Diaz said a century ago: “Poor Mexico! So far from God, and so close to the United States”, he did not know that he would speak for the whole Latin America 100 years later. Despite the countless natural resources of the region, more than 40% of its population –around 200 million souls- lives in poverty. Moreover, Latin America is the most unequal region of the world, according to an United Nations recent research.

I had no idea, either, that Mexico is, in fact, such a rich country.

[Ian David]

18. Save your apologist crap for Communist Underground.com. This is Democratic Underground.

Communists are just Nazis who don't understand about money.

[Fearless]

33. Hate to burst your bubble...

But guess what, there is no system of gov't that is inherently evil or bad. The only difference between good and evil is the level of corruption in governance. All systems work and at equal rates. It is when politicians begin working for themselves that the system fails. Further, Cuba is Socialist, not Communist regardless of what people are told to think.

And finally... I see it now. And I thought that the Red Scare was over, that McCarthy was in his self-dug grave, and that Walt Disney's and Ronald Reagan's fearmongering had ended. But apparently the witch hunt continues. So much for progress.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. Gift? Free?

No, it has a price. How many of those doctors are allowed to travel outside of Cuba with their families?

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. Many of them, I dare say. Cuba doesn't just educate its own doctors, but

students from all over South America. Sometimes, I think there is a "quid pro quo" in terms of raw materials, such as oil, I believe. But I doubt if it's obligatory. In any case, they know the need for solidarity in the face of the "empire".

It's not the way humanitarians' minds work. The rich (the cynical mass of them) tend to judge people by their own standards, but these are misleading, because they reflect a concern to know the price of everything, and the absence of a knowledge of the actual value attaching to it.

There are people who act from noble motives. Not too many politicians, it's true, but they exist. Nelson Mandela was another.

[Redstone]

9. Oh, boy. You're in trouble now. Nobody here will remember, I'm sure, the Cuban troops

in places like Angola.

The fact that our embargo of Cuba is astonishingly stupid does NOT mean that Castro is a saint.

But, if you're going to say "Castro isn't a saint" on DU, you've got guts. You're going to receive ALL kinds of hateful bullshit in return.

But I agree with you, even if nobody else does.

Redstone

[Joe Chi Minh]

10. Why on earth wouldn't they remember? Do you think a Communist regime in

Africa would not improve the lot of the people there? You need to grow up, and not swallow everything the MSM feeds you with.

But kudos to right-wingers, they do tend to stick by each other in times of strife.

[Redstone]

11. Uh-huh. I'm a right-winger, who gets all of his information from the "MSM." Thank you

SO much for advising me of that fact.

I'll just go out back and eat worms as a penance now, since I've disappointed you so badly.

Redstone

[Joe Chi Minh]

13. Well I'll tell you what. You tell me what recent MSM news you've heard regarding

politics or geo-politics you disagree with. How about that?

Incidentally, you never did tell us what was so bad about providing health care and proper education for the poor. Though, on reflection, I suppose your pals' "cigar" thing would render it all worthless.

[Redstone]

14. Oh, you're funny. You really are. "My pal's cigar thing?" What the fuck?

I can just see the spittle flying off your lips as you type.

What else you got? I can't wait to hear it.

Redstone

[Redstone]

15. Nothing else? Dang. You're not NEAR as much fun as I thought you'd be.

Redstone

[Joe Chi Minh]

37. And there we all were, waiting with bated breath to hear you going to

town on the MSM for one of their bent and trivialised reports. Any of them. What a spoil-sport.

[Ian David]

22. Of course they good medical care. They have all those doctors who can't leave the country.

Castro create a great health care system, and Musolini made the trains run on time.

Kudos to Der Castrofuhrer!

[AlphaCentauri]

25. Why they have to leave their country? are you expecting them to take Americans jobs

or willing to pay them less to make America's health care afordable...

[Ian David]

27. I'm sorry, I can't figure out when you're trying to use nouns or verbs.

Can you please have a grown-up help you type?

I honestly have no idea what malformed thoughts you're trying to communicate.

[AlphaCentauri]

28. Sorry, this is democratic underground

Turn right on the next exit to clear up your mind

:puke:

[Ian David]

35. We get signal. Main screen turn on! n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

40. RLOL: 'Of course """"""they"""" good medical care'

Castro """"create"""" a great health care system

Sorry my english is bad but I'm not trying to correct anybody but myself

:popcorn:

[Joe Chi Minh]

43. I think the reason the Mexicans are crossing the border, Alpha,

is that they're looking for their country's stolen natural resources. Should they stay behind in a looted landscape, picking over the dross?

[AlphaCentauri]

45. I totally agree

in the third world countries people can't afford the products that come from their natural resources, thats a Petty.

I was trying to tell the poster who mention the Cuban Doctors if his intention was to bring them here, that is they can immigrate legally using the 20 000 visas available to Cuban citizens plus other privileges that other latin americans won't have.

[Joe Chi Minh]

46. Oh, don't tell them the truth. It amounts to cruelty. There's no way they're

going to cite that in preference to their own mendacious spiel.

[Joe Chi Minh]

36. Every time you open your mouth you reveal your ignorance and

moral deficit.

He sends doctors all over South America! And to equate universal, free health care for the Cuban people with Mussolini's "making the trains run on time"... well... we'll just draw a veil over that, shall we?

[AlphaCentauri]

41. it's not his fault

it's the ventriloquist

[Joe Chi Minh]

44. You gad it!

[Ian David]

21. Why do so many idiots think Communism is just farther left than Liberalism?

Communism isn't really leftist.

Communism is just as far to the right as National Socialism, but up north in the godless/moneyless region.

[AlphaCentauri]

26. why so many equal facist to communism and can't define left or rigth

[Fearless]

34. Actually all communism is is the opposite of libertarianism.

[Ian David]

20. There's a difference between people choosing to live in a socialist commune...

and being forced to live under communo-fascism.

I have no problem with socialized programs and communes and the like.

Nobody is stopping YOU from moving to The Glorious People's Republic of China if you want to.

Pack your bags and leave me the keys to your house and car when you go.

Property is for pussies anyway.

[AlphaCentauri]

29. "and that's all I have to say about that" : Forrest Gump

:rofl:

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

19. Communists are just Nazis who don't undertand about money. n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

39. Course the Nazis/far right of today are making great fist of the economy,

haven't they? Just as they did before FDR had to put the country back on its feet again. And those bankers, etc, who sought to have Roosevelt assassinated WERE overt fascists! Thank goodness for Smedley Butler!

Here's something to warm the cockles of your heart!

Remarkable night I met the maverick

by Richard Young Former Mirror Photographer

"The night I met Fidel Castro remains one of the most unforgettable of my life.

It came in March 2002 during a dinner in Havana to end the week of the Cigar Festival, where I was taking photos for a British cigar distributor.

Organisers told me there was a slim chance he would show up on the final night and sit on the table next to me.

But I didn't hold out much hope - they said it was about 50-1. In fact, it turned out to be the last time he ever appeared at the annual event.

We were halfway through dinner when suddenly there was a lot of fuss by the main door. Then total mayhem broke out as Castro strode through the dining hall and sat down at his table, larger than life, in his green fatigues just as you imagine him. It was a real thrill and I could hardly believe it.

For a few minutes, everyone crowded round him, shaking his hand and taking his picture. His security guards just stood back and let everyone mob him. I couldn't imagine such a scene happening with any other country's leader.

After most people were back in their seats, I went over and introduced myself.

Fidel shook my hand and, although he speaks little English, said "Hello" and smiled, looking straight into my eyes.

I was immediately taken how amiable and charismatic he was, something which rarely comes across in pictures.

And then he willingly posed for my camera, almost as if he was just another of the delegates in the room, not one of the world's most legendary figures.

He was just as pleasant with all the others who went to shake his hand.

I have photographed many of the world's leaders, but for me meeting Castro was up there with Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama. It was a rare and historic moment and I was thrilled to have the opportunity to share it."

From today's Daily Mirror:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/02/20/farewell-fidel-castro-last-of-the-great-revolutionaries-steps-down-as-cuba-s-president-89520-20325396/

There is a wonderful photo of Fidel and Che Guevara on another page.

[Mika]

47. U.S. lied about Cuban role in Angola - historian

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ120.html

WASHINGTON, April 1, 2002 (Reuters) - The United States and South Africa intervened in Angola months before Cuban troops arrived in 1975, and not afterward as Washington claimed, according to a historian who recently wrote a book on the subject.

Piero Gleijeses, a professor at Johns Hopkins' School of International Studies, said that President Gerald Ford's administration lied about Cuban military presence to justify its covert operations against Marxist guerrillas. Angola was a Portuguese colony until 1975.

Secretary of State Henry Kissinger denied then and in his memoirs later that the U.S. government knew that South African troops invaded Angola posing as mercenaries in 1975, he said. He also required the Central Intelligence Agency to rewrite a document on Angola to show an earlier Cuban presence than was accurate, Gleijeses said in an interview. "Kissinger had the CIA rewrite its report to serve the political aim of the administration, and so the poor CIA ended up lying," he said, speaking tongue-in-cheek. Declassified CIA papers for August through October of 1975 talk of the presence of only a few Cubans in Angola trying to pass themselves off as tourists, the historian said.

The first academic to gain access to archives in Havana, Gleijeses has put together a almost day-to-day account of the arrival of Cuban troops in Angola.

With the departure of the Portuguese in 1975, Angola had a power vacuum that the Marxist Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola, or MPLA, and conservative UNITA sought to take advantage of. The fighting that marked the struggle for independence became a civil war.

A CIA-funded covert operation was launched from Zaire in July, at the same time as a South African operation from the south backed the UNITA rebel group, the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola, led by led by Jonas Savimbi, who died this year.

But by October 1975, the groups with U.S. and South African support were losing the war and white-ruled South Africa sent in regular troops.

Cuban President Fidel Castro decided on Nov. 4, 1975, to send soldiers to Angola but did so without informing Moscow, which two months later halfheartedly provided Aeroflot IL-62 planes for an airlift.

The arrival of 30,000 Cubans tilted the civil war in favor of the MPLA which had controlled the capital of Luanda, Gleijeses said, and the South Africans withdrew in March 1976. The war stretched on for another 25 years, with the latest cease-fire deal signed just last weekend.

South African Link Denied

"The key element of the covert operation was cooperation with South Africa, and that was totally denied," Gleijeses said. "Kissinger went to the extreme of saying he only learned a couple of weeks later that South Africa had invaded."

In his book "Conflicting Missions: Havana, Washington and Africa 1959-1976," based on U.S. documents and archival research in Cuba and Angola, Gleijeses maintains that Cuba dispatched troops as a result of the South African invasion. He argues that Kissinger's account of the U.S. role in Angola was misleading, both in testimony to Congress in 1976 and more recently in the third volume of his memoirs "Years of Renewal."

The historian interviewed the then CIA station chief in Luanda, Robert Hultslander who, speaking on the record for the first time, criticized U.S. policy in Angola as "shortsighted and flawed."

The former CIA agent told Gleijeses that he was unaware at the time that "the U.S. would eventually beg South Africa to directly intervene to pull its chestnuts out of the fire."

China's Deng Held Off

Gleijeses also argues that Kissinger misled Americans by saying that an attempt to gain China's help in Angola was thwarted by the refusal of the U.S. Congress to approve funding for the covert operation.

In his memoirs, Kissinger recounts a meeting he and Ford had on Dec. 2, 1975, in Beijing with Chairman Mao Tse-tung in which Angola was discussed and Mao suggested China was willing to cooperate. Gleijeses said Kissinger failed to mention a meeting held the following day with Deng Xiaoping in which, according to a White House memorandum, the Chinese president refused to help in Angola while South Africa was involved.

"The reason why China held back was not Congress' refusal to vote additional aid. It was because the South Africans were there," he said, adding that Mao was very ill by then and Deng was in charge of decisions of state.

"Kissinger ignores the other document which contradicts what he wants to say, and that is very dishonest," Gleijeses said.

[EFerrari]

30. We didn't "over react" to him. As a country, we gave him a choice

between becoming our client (like El Salvador or Guatemala) or becoming our client.

His bunker mentality is a response to US, not the other way around.

He came here for support, first.

[dsc]

3. His choice was 5 or none

He chose none.

[malaise]

4. He's neutralizing Florida for the Dems.

The greater good :D

[Ian David]

7. Interesting theory! He removes himself as the one issue that leads Cubans to vote Republican? n/t

[EFerrari]

31. Wow. You may be right.

Now all we need is actual vote counting.

[Redstone]

12. You'd think so, wouldn't you? I'm no fan of Castro, but he does have that.

Redstone

[YellowRubberDuckie]

16. He's probably already dead.

I cannot possibly be the only one thinking this. Come on!
Duckie

[Ian David]

24. No he's not. He's pining for the fjords.

Lovely plumage.

[Patsy Stone]

17. I think he's already dead. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

32. I think he's already dead.

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