O.M.G. Gold and Silver Prices: $941.70 and $17.82 per oz.

[BeHereNow]

Unbelievable.

Wonder if Junker ever visits DU anymore.
He tried to tell every one and people just
made fun of him.

This one's for you Junker, where ever you are.
http://www.kitco.com/market/
BHN

[Divine Discontent]

1. shocking...

I remember 280-300 and 3 just, what, 10 years ago? no buyer here, but I remember much lower rates... helloooooo deep recession! damn georgie

19% approval rating??? that's too high, it's gotta be 5%

[King Coal]

21. I was working in a gold mine last time it got so high. It was sweet. We were making cash at $90.

Time to get out the pans and sluice box, eh?

[Steven_S]

2. I know what you mean...

but I never made fun of him. Because I'm long and heavy, baby. :)

[BeHereNow]

4. Junker thread from 2003 I saved in my bookmarks- "Heads up...global financial crisis developing...".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=2706

Enjoy!

Me too btw.
Wishing I'd bought more...

BHN:thumbsup: :hi:

[Warpy]

3. Silver prices are now above the peak Bunky Hunt got in the 70s

when he tried to corner the market on a fairly common metal. Unfortunately, that's not indexed to inflation, so I'll hang on to the family flatware a bit longer.

[BrklynLiberal]

5. I told my son to buy gold a few years ago...but did he listen to his Mom? NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[BeHereNow]

10. I told family members and friends to buy too.

Only my brother listened.
He's glad he did!

I just wish I'd bought MORE!!!!!

BHN

[Hydra]

6. It's all inflation based

If this continues, the dollar will either die or become the laughing-stock currency. No wonder the Fed is in full panic mode...on the surface. You'll recall that Cheney moved his money to Euros- I wonder if he had a "hunch."

[BeHereNow]

9. Go read the Junker thread I posted a link to-

It's VERY insightful.
He said back then what we are witnessing now.
People just made fun of him.
Assholes.

BHN

[Hydra]

19. A bit flamewarish for my taste

The real miracle in all of this is that the dollar has slid to around 40% of it's value...and no riots! Not even any panic!

I did the requisite research after watching Money As Debt, and once you understand how it all works, there is no way to see this as an "accident"

"All the perplexities, confusions, and distresses in America arise, not from defects in their constitution or confederation, not from a want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation."

John Adams

[BeHereNow]

22. People were not very nice to Junker-

There were a lot of pompous ass holes in the
Economic forum back then.

I think most of them are long gone.

And you are correct- it is no accident.
It's been the plan for decades.

BHN

[Adsos Letter]

26. Is the plan that which is expressed in your sigline?

Hoffer's "True Believer" is great...have you read Ellul's "Propaganda?"

[BeHereNow]

37. Yep- one in the same. BIG Hoffer fan here.

Haven't read "Propaganda" yet.
Just started "Political Ponerology."
FASCINATING book.
Can't put it down.

BHN

[lapfog_1]

7. It's cool.

I'm part owner (2%) of a gold mine... it has proven reserves of 40,000 ounces of gold, which makes my investment worth something like $750K minus the extraction cost plus environmental cleanup. They only do the more expensive underground mining and recovery is via activated charcoal, not chemical and what tailings are left (not sold for rock fill) they will replace in the mine tunnels, and will leave the area more pristine than when they found it. BLM is also requiring the development of seep wells for wildlife (already done).

Anyway, their extraction and cleanup costs are estimated at $50/ton or about $8M. So that means a net for the investors of about $29M or $600K for me. That's my retirement money. Should be coming over the next 5 years. Hope the price stays up there for the duration.

[Angela Shelley]

11. Go Gold, Go!

(just for lapfog_1, of course)

[lapfog_1]

15. Made the investment nearly 17 years ago.

so the return isn't ALL that great. Probably would have done better to invest in real estate or stock market (if I was smart enough to time GETTING OUT)... but this was a "family deal" so I had to pitch in.

For years it looked like a loser deal. Now it's smelling pretty good!

[BeHereNow]

13. Not a bad retirement plan- I don't think you need to worry

I SERIOUSLY don't see gold dropping in the current
global financial shit storm blowing over us all.

I'm watching a few mining stocks right now-
care to make any recommendations?;-)

BHN

[lapfog_1]

23. Well, there is a BIG silver deal that I'm not involved in

but I know about it. Tombstone Exploration and Mining, trading on the Vancouver penny exchange. Full disclosure, my sister and Brother-in-Law (they own the gold mine, too) have a stake in that one. I forget the number of acres of land they have the mineral rights to, something like 12,000 acres. Anyway, in the vein structures the silver is running 4 oz to the ton, which is (I'm told) very good. All located near Tombstone AZ.

The website is

http://www.tombstonemining.com/

As always, even though this is publicly traded stock, any potential investor will need to do their own research and come to their own conclusions about investing. I don't think that I should even recommend an investment here as this isn't the place for such things.

[BeHereNow]

38. I'll take a look- thanks! Dumbest thing I ever did was sell my SSRI stock. BAD move BHN!

:spank:
DUMB BHN!!!

[lapfog_1]

42. Whatever you might have done with money that was dumb...

I can guarantee that I've done worse!

Money has never been my strong suit.

[BeHereNow]

8. From the Junker OP

"I am not known here, and do not intend to bore y'all with my bio, suffice it to say that I am an old, old hand at following things economique' both Amerucan and elsewhere on our watery planet. This is just a heads up to you young'uns out there to get your financial house in order.

1) buy gold or silver coins if you have any cash at all. get gold or silver bullion, the presumed 'extra' value of a numismatic coin will not matter in the short order, merely its metal content. So just straight gold (maples, eagles, krugs, philharmonics, panda's, et al) and any pure silver coin.
2) buy storable food that will hold nutrition for many months. Do it now. Get as much put aside as you can.
3)Be aware that the dollar is cratering and a huge, perhaps, fatal, global financial system crisis is developing. This is not just my opinion
many, many others see the same thing coming, y'all are a bunch of optimists here, so I thought to bring a bit of global reality to the table."

I MISS the Junker-
It is a shame that he was tombstoned.
He brought a great deal of good info to the economic forum.
People treated him horribly.
Guess he had the last laugh though!
BHN

[Adsos Letter]

30. I read that thread...

you were one of a very few to treat him respectfully, and recognize his insight.

[BeHereNow]

34. I loved Junker- he made perfect sense to me. I also followed his advice!

And I'm DAMNED GLAD I did!

Like I said though, there were a LOT of pompous
yuppie "experts" in the Economic forum those days.

Bet they are wishing they had said less and listened more to him now!

BHN

[TahitiNut]

12. Eight years of silver prices ... graph

[BeHereNow]

17. Thanks for posting that graph- wish I knew to do that!

I've never figured out how to insert one of those or a picture.
Techno-impaired I guess.

Do you remember Junker TahitiNut?
You were on DU then weren't you?

I still check out his friend's site-
Halfpasthuman-
WILD stuff there!
I love it!

BHN

[TahitiNut]

29. I don't have any clear recollection of junker, but ...

... I think anyone with a brain had to foresee the rise in gold and silver prices. Quite frankly, I was perplexed in 2003 and 2004 that the price hadn't risen a LOT more. It seemed to me that something had to be holding it down and I couldn't figure out what. I am NOT surprised at the prices today ... I only wonder why it took longer than I thought it would.

I won't be surprised when gold is at $1500/oz either. We've got a LOOONG way to go before there's a turnaround in sight.

[notadmblnd]

27. I have a bar of silver that my husband bought back in the 90's

The credit union was selling them. At the time, it was 100.00 dollars worth. I wonder what it's worth now?

[Divine Discontent]

45. weigh it on a small scale

I bet you have a grand's worth

[BeHereNow]

47. Yup-multiply the ounces by the current price per ounce.

Could be worth a lot by now!
Yippeeee! Good husband for buying it!
Smart man!
BHN

[BreweryYardRat]

14. I'm putting most of my college/grad school fund in silver ASAP.

And frankly, I may pull some of it out so I have an emergency reserve...

Note to self: Tell Dad to start putting some of his money in silver.

[BeHereNow]

18. Wait for a dip- don't buy now, it's WAY high now.

Buy low.
It will dip and then take off again.
Just keep watching the charts.

BHN

[0007]

16. What does a good three finger oz go for these days?

[BeHereNow]

20. Huh? What's a three finger oz?

Not sure I know what you mean.
BHN

[A HERETIC I AM]

24. You would know what a 3 finger OZ was had you lived in Miami in the 70's and 80's

A bag of reefer.

Hold the bag up, compare the level/quantity to the number of fingers held parallel to the ground.

1 finger baggie, about 3/4 inches of pot, 2 finger baggie = 1.5" etc.

[BeHereNow]

35. Oh!!! LOL!

Got it!

BHN

[0007]

25. Ya got to be extra careful these folking days mate. Agent Mike

might be around.

Does doney dicks jog your memory?

[Adsos Letter]

32. "three finger ounce?"

the standard in my misspent youth was a 4-finger "lid"...10 bucks...

[0007]

33. OMG that's when Broadway was void of humans.

[BeHereNow]

36. Those were the days....sigh.

Did we hang out then?
Indiana?

BHN

[Adsos Letter]

39. Probably not...California child here...

unless you were in an Armored Cav unit in '74-'75...had a good friend there who was from Indiana.

[BeHereNow]

41. Maybe it was your friend in the park with me back then-

You just never know!
BHN

[Adsos Letter]

44. Stranger things have happened...

just a few degrees of separation, and all that...

[notadmblnd]

50. and now it will cost you about 120.00

and that's for the mediocre stuff. Good stuff between 3 and 5. That's what my sources tell me.

[NC_Nurse]

28. Mogambo Guru must be having an MOE...

(Mogambo Orgasmic Experience) :D

[Jamastiene]

31. Pardon my ignorance, but

is that a really good sign or really bad sign? I take it it's a really bad sign?

[BeHereNow]

40. Depends on which side of the fence you are on.

Some years back, many people, myself included
started transferring assets out of the dollar and
into other things- gold, euros, silver etc...
This was because we took seriously what many analysts
were telling us about a coming economic shit storm.

Other people blew it off and are now wishing
they had listened as they watch the value of their dollars fall.

So basically, for people who bought metal, it is a very good thing.
Not so good for people who didn't.

BHN

[Jamastiene]

43. So, are my silver dollars, that I have been saving through

the years, worth a little more right now? I don't know that much about it, but I have gotten a couple mint condition silver eagle dollars as presents and liked them and kept them (still in mint condition in their little cases never handled).

Wow, so if someone (who already owns silver and gold) were to sell right now, they could really cash in, but it would be a bad bad bad time right now to buy, I take it?

[BeHereNow]

46. Yes- the price of silver has gone way up, so the value of your coins has too.

Or anything else you own that is silver.

I would not cash in my metal for dollars- no way.
The beauty of metal is that is is a global currency.

I don't know that is the best time to buy-
unless there is a significant dip.
Then I would personally consider transferring
more of my dollar assets because I do think
the dollar is going to continue to dump
and metal prices will continue to rise.

But I'm no expert.
If you want to transfer/preserve some
of your assets, I would suggest you research it
with someone you trust as a financial adviser.

BHN

[DFW]

48. The 1996 one is worth about $50. The rest are worth an ounce of silver.

[Jamastiene]

54. Wow, not bad.

Thanks. I'll hold on to them for the long term. This sounds like it might be an ongoing thing, right?

[BeHereNow]

49. HOLY SHIT! Gold now at 947.00!!! I just looked... amazing.

BHN

[DFW]

51. Junker was before my time

He got one thing wrong: buying coins with a numismatic
premium would have been a good idea, not a bad one. The coin
market for rare coins is sky high right now. Guess which
market is the most crazy? RUSSIAN gold coins! Three ruble
gold coins minted from 1869-1885 would have cost about $350
five years ago. They are worth over $2000 now. Five ruble
gold coins of Alexander III (1886-1894) were worth $175
seven years ago. They are worth $750-$900 now.

But they aren't easy to find in quantity.

Here's a bit of irony for you: Remember Ohio Coingate scandal
figure Tom Noe? He was to have invested $50 million of Ohio
workers' money in rare coins starting in 1998. If, instead of
getting involved with Karl Rove and Kenneth Blackwell, he had
just stuck to investing in coins like he was supposed to, he
would have more than tripled the investment he should have made,
and been a ringing hero to Ohio's workers, and, worse, to its
Republicans, possibly changing the course of American electoral
history.

[notadmblnd]

52. greed without patience is a bummer.

[BeHereNow]

53. Numismatic value

I think Junker meant stay away from US coins-
In case the BFEE tried to take them as US currency.

And yes, I remember coingate - that one sort
of fell off the radar, eh?

I guess the scandals are so numerous at this point
no one can keep track, much less remember them all.

You would have liked Junker.
One of my favorites over the years.

BHN

[DFW]

55. Even certain US coins have gone up by leaps and bounds

Like any nitch area, you just gotta know wtf you're doing.

I once emptied the piggy bank in 1973 while I was in college
to buy a rare date silver dollar I was sure would increase in
value. It cost me $1600, all I had at the time. I kept it until
2004 when some rich collector bought it off me for $150,000.
Suspecting what would happen if Bush got back in (and I won my
bet: that Kerry would win the election, but Bush would remain in
office), I did a like-kind trade for old (pre-1907) US gold coins
with gold at about $450 an ounce. I'm still liable, when I sell,
for 28% tax on the gain (which is, at this point, just about all
of it), but it still leaves me with a nice little cushion to fall
back on if I need it. Needless to say, the Worldcom stock that Bush
backers Solomon Smith Barney bought for me didn't fare quite as well
(they bought me, in their infinite wisdom, 1000 shares of Worldcom
stock at $71--that $71000 is now worth zero).

Certain old US gold coins have gone up more than the price of gold, too.
But is something that you have to monitor and have some knowledge about.
Otherwise, it's about as good as tossing your money at a roulette wheel.

[TheWatcher]

56. I highly doubt Junker visits here anymore BHN. I wish he did.

There are several very astute economic posters who do not contribute anymore.

Hell, there are several very astute posters who posted A LOT of other useful things as well, but they also have left or post very rarely.

I never commented on, but I do remember the thread you refer to, and it just made me shake my head. Even though it has become the norm in our current civilization, it just baffles me the way people continue to pooh-pooh just about everything. The warning signs of the current economic state were always there, but as usual, many have decided that it's more important to feel good, and mock anything that interferes with that end.

It seems to me we are living in a country where the denial, superior indifference, willful ignorance, and the determination to not pay attention have trumped just about anything else.

I am glad you are still hanging on. I don't know why I do sometimes. I will admit that I really don't contribute much of anything that is useful anymore, and have of late only been a rather snarky, confrontational, and somewhat unpleasant poster.

And I suppose the reason for that is just the utter frustration of watching what is happening to my country, the feeling of helplessness to do something about it, and looking at the choices we have that aren't actually choices that will do much good, and watching most people around me buy into the fantasy of change, while at the same time shout down anyone who does not prescribe to the Matrix.

Having said that, that is not an excuse for becoming so bitter and cynical, and reducing oneself to the Mad Hermit who shouts obscenities and raves at all passers by of his tree. it is not an excuse for treating others badly, because of a greater frustration. I owe a lot of people apologies, although at this point I would not blame them for not accepting them. They probably have me on ignore, so they would never see it anyway. :)

I guess in this current environment in which we find ourselves, perhaps all that is left to do is just keep trying in the face of adversity, or quietly step away and try to survive whatever is coming, and if the shit DOES hit the fan, try to help and make a difference for as many as you can, and be a positive factor in trying to turn things around.

Keep hanging on BHN.

[BeHereNow]

57. If it helps, know this; I understand completely.

DU is not what is used to be, that is certain.
I love going through my older bookmarked threads
for that reason. I too, miss so many of the DU greats
who were either tombstoned or left in disgust.

I'm somewhat of the Mad Hermit myself these days,
so no need to explain. As for snark posting, it's all too
easy to do these days with so many flap jawed morons
spewing their opinions, which you and I know have very
little to do with reality, but just TRY to explain that to them.

Arrogant egotistical one liners have replaced
the thoughtful discussions we used to have, courtesy
of some of the better researchers on DU.

There are still people here I enjoy, although the numbers
have certainly dwindled over the last year.
As I see it, it has become increasingly hard to tell
the hate mongers on the "left" from the ones on the "right."

I'm glad you are still around.
You hang in there too.

BHN
:hug:

[BeHereNow]

58. Just found this PM from Junker to me in 2003- WOW that was five years ago!

Re: Your Post in Economic Forum...
From: junker
Date: Nov-25-03 01:17 PM
>I believe you are spot on this topic. (my PM to him)

Thanks for your kind words. I did craft the post a bit as I wanted to alert those who were on the 'edge' and see if the universe would not tip them over a bit. Sort of a little bit of payback to the universe for my being aware and able to take some small actions.

The experts do not bother me as I am far more educated than most, and have a very very good big picture view of things as well as a fantastic network of very well connected friends.

It will indeed get brutal.

Prepare what you can. Do all the regular things like put dollars into things to eat that store well and hold nutritional value. Another good place for funds is in meds and vitamins et al.

Anyway, won't be long now.

[Steven_S]

59. One more note before this thread dies....

During my period of investing in metals from 5-6 years ago I was looking at platinum as a possibility. At that time platinum was @ $600/oz. People who were allegedly smarter than I were advised against it.

With platinum now at $2138/oz it seems that platinum has been a better return on investment than either gold or silver.

HAHAHA!!!!11!! - And I didn't graduate from fuckin' high school.

[soothsayer]

60. Just shows how weak the dollar is.

[BeHereNow]

61. And weakening- Gold hit 954.70 today, silver 18.09

How come none of the candidates are
talking about it?

Makes me wonder...

BHN