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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:22 PM
Original message
For all the snark, don't forget. At the heart of it is John McCain and his questionable .......
...... relationship with ETHICS.

This is of long standing. It involves not only his political life, but also his personal life.

We now return to our usual raucous snarking and shit slinging.
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USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. McLame Is Pathetic
When captured he begged the Vietnamese, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html?PageNr=2


This is grounds for a treason trial. I don't know about anyone else, but I will never vote for a battlefield coward.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Bullshit
that's not treason.

And calling him a battlefield coward is ridiculous. Read the whole account.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Much as I disrespect the politician, I don't believe that for a moment.
Has he sold out fellow soldiers as a politician? Hell yes. Is he an ethical slug? Yes indeed.

But I would never presume to judge anyone's actions on the battlefield or the Hanoi Hilton. I'm old enough to remember the Viet Cong--oh, yes indeed.
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Wikipedia excerpt
Did you read the article? He made the offer four days after he was captured- he was badly injured, beaten, denied treatment, and near death. There's a lot I don't like about McCain, but I would never call him a coward or traitor. Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia on McCain's POW days.

He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi. After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes. Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs.

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to give him medical care unless he gave them military information; they beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth. Soon thinking he was near death, McCain said he would give them more information if taken to the hospital, hoping he could then put them off once he was treated. A prison doctor came and said it was too late, as McCain was about to die anyway. Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times and The Washington Post. Interrogation and beatings resumed in the hospital; McCain gave his ship's name, squadron's name, and the attack's intended target. Further coerced to give the names of his squadron members, he supplied the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.

McCain spent six weeks in the Hoa Loa hospital, receiving marginal care. He was interviewed by a French television reporter whose report was carried on CBS, and was observed by a variety of North Vietnamese, including the famous General Vo Nguyen Giap. Many of the North Vietnamese observers assumed that he must be part of America's political-military-economic elite. Now having lost 50 pounds, in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a prisoner-of-war camp on the outskirts of Hanoi nicknamed "the Plantation" in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week (one was Bud Day, a future Medal of Honor recipient); they nursed McCain and kept him alive. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years. In July 1968, McCain's father was named Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), stationed in Honolulu and commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater. McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early: the North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation, due to the Code of Conduct principle of "first in, first out": he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well. McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese senior negotiator Le Duc Tho to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman during the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.

In August of 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions, and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery. Teeth and bones were broken again, as was McCain's spirit; the beginning of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards. After four days of this, McCain signed and taped an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate", although he used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal that the statement was forced. He felt then and always that he had dishonored his country, his family, his comrades and himself by his statement, but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine." His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head. Two weeks later his captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time, his will to resist restored, he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Money quote from the NYT article regarding the Keating 5:
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 04:56 PM by blondeatlast
During Mr. McCain’s four years in the House, Mr. Keating, his family and his business associates contributed heavily to his political campaigns. The banker gave Mr. McCain free rides on his private jet, a violation of Congressional ethics rules (he later said it was an oversight and paid for the trips). They vacationed together in the Bahamas. And in 1986, the year Mr. McCain was elected to the Senate, his wife joined Mr. Keating in investing in an Arizona shopping mall.

Mr. Keating had taken over the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association and used its federally insured deposits to gamble on risky real estate and other investments. (Keating) pressed Mr. McCain and other lawmakers to help hold back federal banking regulators. For years, Mr. McCain complied. At Mr. Keating’s request, he wrote several letters to regulators, introduced legislation and helped secure the nomination of a Keating associate to a banking regulatory board.

By early 1987, though, the thrift was careering toward disaster. Mr. McCain agreed to join several senators, eventually known as the Keating Five, for two private meetings with regulators to urge them to ease up. “Why didn’t I fully grasp the unusual appearance of such a meeting?” Mr. McCain later lamented in his memoir.


You, me, and 90% of people with functioning brain cells could understand that ther emight be grey areas, if not outright influence, here. But not our ethical SuperBrain:

Mr. McCain has since described the episode as a unique humiliation. “If I do not repress the memory, its recollection still provokes a vague but real feeling that I had lost something very important,” he wrote in his memoir. “I still wince thinking about it.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html?pagewanted=1&hp

This is a man so dangerously convinced of his own purity that the can't see a corruption train wreck when he's facing it on the tracks.

Read this part, if nothing more of the article. His maniacal self-assurance in his own purity is frightening and dangerous.



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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I feel like we're in an echo chamber!
Helllooooooooo ...........

:hi:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I've got the flu, have despised McCain for over 20 years, and I'm majorly pissed
and at the same time, majorly enjoying seeing all that I've known for years from pre-internet local news stories come to light.

I knew it would happen and I knew if he became the presumptive nominee the fall would be spectacular. I suspect there's much more to come. I have vague memories of these "newspapers..."
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Take care of yourself, blonde! The flu is really nasty this year.
:hug:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I've had it for FOUR weeks--and I had my shot. Ugh.
I'm much better but EXHAUSTED. :hi:

Thanks for the good wishes.
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. in my opinion about his denial....
I just think he seemed too calm this morning at his press conference.

If someone was lying about you, wouldn't you be a little more angry...not necessarily nasty to the press...
but wouldn't you call the NYT liars? and tell them they are full of it?

But he didn't really do that. He did say it wasn't true, but he seemed to calm. I would have been pissed if someone was "lying" about me.
He seemed to calm to me, like he was denying something he knows to be true.
For a man that is known to have such a bad temper...I can't see him being so calm about a supposed lie?

However, at the same time....I think it is strange that the NYT would have this story since December and just sit on it till now, now? why now?
and this also happened 8 years ago????
I think the repukes must be trying to make him look bad and then we get the blame for it.


The whole thing just stinks all the way around.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. 8 yrs they have self righteously spouted their moral superiority and christian values to me
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 12:26 AM by seabeyond
they have pointed at me because of the way i vote, stating i am not christian, i do not have morals.

they ran and continue to run on christianity and morals.

i wont be quiet about it.
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