Are small aircraft allowed to fly in a circle in a downtown metropolitan area?

[lonestarnot]

I saw one today do a very wierd thing, but after going inside I got distracted with a heavy workload and didn't think about it again until a couple of hours ago. This little plane flew very low over my head, circled around and flew between highrises downtown, went the direction from which it came (south) and flew over my head again at a higher elevation and then flew north. I held my breath for a second because I had not seen anything like that before since 911. Actually freaked me out for a couple of seconds, but since it didn't hit anything I thought hmmmmf must have been the governor or some bigedybig.

[thunder rising]

1. Depends on what city. NY and DISNEYLAND are off limits, but most every where else a pilot can call

for photo runs at low altitude.

[lonestarnot]

2. And the tower grants permission?

[Mojorabbit]

5. Here in Orlando

they fly over and photograph houses. They were doing it to catch people who added on without permits, code violations etc. It was supposed to be secret till the company doing the photos offered to sell them and it came out. We also have a small airport near that gives flying lessons and sometimes the would be pilots do repeat take offs and landings.

[lonestarnot]

6. Fly light aircraft or helicopters? I wouldn't have paid much attention had

it been a helicopter. :shrug: EEek newbies flying over the house. Duck!

[Mojorabbit]

23. small planes normally

but now that you mention helicopters. I was awakened around five am by a helicopter hovering over my house low. It did not move. My house was vibrating.I got up and made sure all my doors were locked. It freaked me out. It was there a looong time.
Came to find out later there had been a bad accident a few blocks away and every helicopter from every station was circled around it. I guess he decided to stay put over my house to avoid an air collision with another one. Damn, I wish they'd let someone in on it when they do that. Freaked me out.

[lonestarnot]

26. I don't think they should be allowed to do that shit. Two rammed into one another here in Phoenix,

killed the 4 in 2 separate choppers, injured no one on the ground because they were over a park and just happened no one was present at the time to be smashed.

[idovoodoo]

37. What exactly should they not be allowed to do ?

Yeah that was a nasty accident...but what prohibitions would eliminate the possibility of it happening?

[lonestarnot]

45. Congregate together over residential areas.

[Nailzberg]

38. Chicago's request for a no fly zone was ignored, so Daley sent bulldozers to the downtown airport.

Dug it up in the middle of the night.

That's the Chicago way.

[Lint Head]

3. Maybe they were filming a movie.

[lonestarnot]

4. In Arizona?

[Swamp Rat]

7. Pass the Dutchie pon de left hand side...

:smoke: :D :hi:

[lonestarnot]

10. Swampie!

Sounds like Dutch bread to the left no? And can I get some hot sauce? :P

[Swamp Rat]

15. Deya geaux!

:9

[lonestarnot]

17. OMG

:rofl: :fart:

[MercutioATC]

8. Yes, it's permitted.

There are certain areas (like NYC and Disney, as mentioned above) that are restricted areas, but it's allowed over most metropolitan areas.

(oh, and I'm an air traffic controller)

[lonestarnot]

11. So ATC grants the authority to do so?

[idovoodoo]

16. ATC doesn't have authority to permit or deny it, all they can do is advise.

And be snitches if they think that's necessary.

[lonestarnot]

18. Wha? Snitches to whom?

[idovoodoo]

19. To the FAA, the FBI, or the DHS. Take your pick.

Controllers can't (effectively) "order" anything (and have their instructions be gospel)

[lonestarnot]

20. I am familiar with what is watched with military aircraft, but not civilian.

Would someone have seen what this aircraft did? And if it wasn't kosher put it on a list or something?

[idovoodoo]

22. There aren't any guidelines as to what's 'kosher'. It's no more clearcut now than it was back

on 9/11.

I guess some people imagine there's some actual kind of 'control' of airplanes by someone on the ground. There isn't. Either as a practical matter or a legal one either. I guess anybody with a radio or a radar screen can make up a 'list'...which is worth about as much as a cold cup of coffee in the real world. Not great news, but there it is...

[lonestarnot]

24. Fucking A.

Suppose that little deal I saw today was a rehearsal for something ominous at a later date? Would anyone have noticed the flight pattern?

[MercutioATC]

27. Relax. Idovoodoo has no idea what he/she is talking about.

Believe me, we've always controlled what's flying over your head...and after 9/11 there are a lot more rules.

A plane flying over a metropolitan area is no cause for concern. If it was, post 9/11, F-16s would have dealt with it long before you saw it.

[idovoodoo]

28. I'm on your side but don't be so sure about what can or can't be done.

Got to be circumspect here...

[MercutioATC]

30. Well, this is what I do. I'm an air traffic controller.

If you want to express doubts, that's fine.

Don't scare people based on your ignorance. There's enough real things that should frighten them.

[uppityperson]

31. shh, don't blow the circumcision, I mean circumspection.

[idovoodoo]

33. Woof

:D

[idovoodoo]

32. I know exactly who you are and what you do.

Scaring people isn't what I'm trying to do. It's cool, trust me. :-)

[MercutioATC]

35. Good. Then stop telling people that all we can do is "advise".

On a personal note, I'm happy that you know what I do.

I'm not sure how you know "exactly" who I am, though...

How do you know ATC (or me)?

[idovoodoo]

36. I talk with ATC on the radio every day...will tell you more later.

sorry to be mysterious...

[MercutioATC]

39. PM me, bud....if you're a pilot (especially one of the newer pilots) you may not have a realistic

picture of what we do. I've been here 17 years...don't know what your experience level is.


I'm at ZOB...don't know where you fly.


Regardless, PM me if you think a a talk would be productive.

[idovoodoo]

40. ZOB is Indianapolis isn't it? Those identifiers don't mean anything to pilots normally,

all we know is freqs that someone gives us. I live in and fly from Jacksonville's sector, they give me clearances but I have the authority under FAR part 91, 135, 141 and/or 121 to decline any ATC instruction as I deem necessary.
Not saying this to be combative, just mentioning that as PIC I have primary authority -at the time-, recognizing I
may have to justify it at a later time! :D

[MercutioATC]

41. ZOB is Cleveland Center.

...and, yes, you have the authority to refuse to follow an ATC clearance if you deem it unsafe.

...you're going to have to explain later, of course.


None of that has anything to do with your claim that ATC only "advises". You're a pilot. I generally like you guys. I'm interested, however, how you think ATC's role is simply advisory.

[idovoodoo]

42. Well, you answered your own question!

I can't pm anybody yet, I'm too new here. Hang with me for a while...it is a tenuous situation.

[MercutioATC]

43. Sent you my personal e-mail.

You're not too new to use that...

[Jane Austin]

9. We have a friend who does commercial photography.

He is always coming in low in urban areas.

Once he was photographing a small factory that was next to a police station in the DFW Metroplex from a helicopter.

They sure did call in Homeland Security.

[lonestarnot]

13. Neighbor is a helicopter pilot

and may or may not check in on her house in the flying rock occassionally, but the faster light air craft does not seem as threatening because of the maintenance of forward flight required. Did that make sense?

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. It was probably Agent Mike watching YOU

:)

[lonestarnot]

14. Stop watch on my smoke?

:smoke: nagh, not me I was concerned with, but the closeness in proximity to the high-rises. I swear my heart skipped a beat.

[whistle]

21. Where are you in NYC? Clearly not allowed there nor in DC not sure

...about any of the other top twenty metro areas, but I suspect there are restricted airspaces in the largest metro areas, but who enforces such restrictions? That sounds bazaar!

[lonestarnot]

25. In Phoenix. And apparently FAA can whack a pilot, but still do not have a straight answer as to the

legality or illegality, or who even really would want to hear about it after it happened. I called around to try to get an answer and trust me all I heard was a sucking sound.

[Nay]

29. IIRC, it's illegal to fly below 1000 ft here in Richmond--unless you're

a helicopter or called and cleared it with the FAA. Everybody in the hi rises downtown hit the phones and call the FAA whenever we have some plane/helicopter/glider coming in too close for comfort. The FAA investigates and often charges miscreants with one crime or another. Most have already called the FAA and cleared their flight plan and reasons for being in the area, just because pilots know the FAA will be getting a LOT of calls.

[idovoodoo]

34. It's illegal to fly lower than 1000' AGL over any populated area, Richmond or Peoria

or Bartow. Except for the purpose of takeoff or landing...that's the Federal Air Regulation and it takes precedence over any (bogus) local 'ordinances', as it must to avoid total chaos.

Actually, FAA doesn't much give a shit about a few calls from irate citizens who think airplanes are peeking into their bedroom windows.

[Oeditpus Rex]

44. Maybe it was a police aircraft

I dunno about Arizona, Phoenix or Maricopa County, but the California Highway Patrol uses single-engine Cessnas for some traffic operations and recon, in addition to helicopters.

[lonestarnot]

46. Blue and black underbelly 1/2 black and 1/2 blue.