CNN Just ran an Excellent Story about the Dirty Crap Fuel Called Ethanol

[El Pinko]

It was called "Scorched Earth" and it was about how all the Dems and Repugs are falling over themselves to fund the wasteful and extremely polluting production of the dirty fuel additive ethanol.

It implied that main reason for the pandering is because the campaigns kick off in IOWA.


Whoever is the next president, I hope we can really bring pressure to bear to STOP the subsidzing of this nasty fuel, which diverts valuable food crops into gas tanks and drives the price of food even higher.

We should be investing in CLEAN renewables. Solar and Wind, Geothermal all are PROVEN TO WORK. Why is our government so averse to it? There should be a solar panel on every house, and EVERY APARTMENT BUILDING TOO. We'd all save on our electric bills, and that cuts fossil fuel consumption, as well as the need to build dangerous nuke plants.


:grr: :banghead:

[ingac70]

1. Geothermal cars?

I'd like to see that one.

:sarcasm:

[El Pinko]

10. Electric cars charged by geothermal/wind or solar are totally feasible...

...but thanks for the negativity. I eat it up and crap diamonds.

[Richard Steele]

13. Here ya go, sport:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/08/16/018881.html

[ingac70]

14. Does it plug into a volcano? nt.

[Richard Steele]

20. Yes....yes it does.

The thing is, the volcanos are sold seperately- that's how they getcha! :eyes:

So the SMART move is to just plug the thing into an existing wall outlet
in your home, and pay for the electricity being generated by a volcano-owner
who plugged a generator into some volcano a thousand miles away.


Does that vehicle you currently use "plug in" to crude oil deposits two miles underground?

[Captain Angry]

2. We don't need to get off of oil. We need to get off of fuel.

Oil? Have to drill for it.
Coal? Have to mine for it.
Nuclear? Have to mine the uranium and then store the spent rods.

We have a grid that can move electricity coast to coast. Solar in Arizona/New Mexico. Wind in North Dakota/Montana/Wyoming. Geo where geo can be done. Coastal. Etc.

Generate it, put it out there.

AND at the same time do whatever we can to reduce the amount of electricity drawn in the first place. How many buildings need A/C because they have a black roof? Mandatory insulation/efficiency standards, etc.

A little bit of work, new industries created, self sufficiency...

[Fovea]

i agree. there is no magic bullet. Oil came the closest

but the free market and consumer fear, envy and greed created the auto centric exurban lifestyle and the big box mall. When ever the free market freaks get on me, I tell them they may have caused the extinction of human life on earth sometime next century.

We need a post consumerist world. The future belongs to the most advanced society with the lightest footprint.

[idovoodoo]

3. I don't really disagree except to note there aren't actually any 'clean' renewables...

every conversion of energy results in heat and therefore contributes to global warming. Some are more efficient than others, like nuclear which pisses off a lot of people, but the methods are less important than the results.

[El Pinko]

11. Solar doesn't generate heat. Wind generates insignificant heat.

Neither contribute to global warming.

[Trajan]

4. Many of us were ignorant of what using Ethanol meant ....

I admit I was, but it has become abundantly clear that using food crops for fuel is too high a price to pay, and the excessive processing costs, in money AND environmental damage, prove it is not in any way worth using ...

[lurky]

5. All ethanol is NOT corn ethanol.

Nobody ever discusses this on these "news" reports. Yes, making ethanol from food crops is ridiculously stupid, and is only happening because of the agribusiness lobby.

On the other hand, there is a lot of promising research on making ethanol from cellulose. This includes wood chips, grass clippings, weed crops like switchgrass, and other sources. The nice thing about ethanol is that it has ZERO net carbon emissions.

If you listen to commercial news, all you will hear about are corn-based ethanol or "clean" fossil fuels, because these two technologies are being pushed by their major corporate sponsors (Big Ag and Big Oil, respectively). Therefore, they are presented as our only two alternatives, when there is actually a wealth of possible solutions to our energy / global warming crisis.

[Fovea]

6. Sure.

But we need to get more of our transit off internal combustion.

I agree whole heartedly that switchgrass and other non foodstuff ETOH sources are far better.

[Greyhound]

7. We could improve this and fix so many other problems we face with hemp.

It grows in almost any climate. Superior source of durable fibers. Cleaner oil. Replenishes the soil. Removes a significant motivation toward deforestation.

There is a very long list of destructive, yet profitable, products and practices that could easily be replaced by hemp.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Great minds think alike, eh Greyhound? You and I were typing the same thing

at the same time.

^5

[Greyhound]

15. Apparently. So why aren't more people aware of this?

I have never once heard an actual reason for prohibiting Hemp, yet no one that matters will even talk about it.
:kick:

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. I think the primary reason is because the production of paper from wood pulp...

has made an enormous amount of money for the companies that make the chemicals used in that process. There is a HUGE vested interest in keeping things as they are.

I found this article that talks about it somewhat (I didnt get a chance yet to read it all the way through) but there is plenty of info that indicates the likes of DOW Chemical and others have lobbied strongly against legalizing Hemp for years because it would affect their market share.

[Greyhound]

18. Well they are the people that got it outlawed in the first place,

but the problems associated with those practices and products are now well known to the general public. It seems with such an obvious and simple solution available, word would get out.

[baby_mouse]

21. EEEEEK! EEEEEEK! HIPPIEEEEEES!

AAAAAAAAAAAAH! HIPPIES!!!! HIPPPIESSSS!!!!! H. I. P. P. I. E. S.

Its not NORMAL to use hemp. God created hemp to flush out the HIPPIES.

We can't look like HIPPIES. We just CAN'T!!!

HEMP, man, JESUS...

If we use hemp for ANYTHING, small children will point at us and say: "You're DIRTY."

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. Hemp.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-284.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp

We should just get the fuck over the prohibition on growing this plant. It grows from arctic circle to arctic circle, grows readily with little or no fertilizer or pesticides, it will produce more energy per acre than corn, flax, sugar or any other crop grown for use in making alcohol, and it has more uses that you can shake a - well... a hemp stalk at.

[El Pinko]

12. morning kick

nt

[Jamastiene]

17. As long as we are still burning shit, whether it's oil, gas or ethanol

we will have pollution. We need to figure out a better way than burning shit to create energy. The Republicans are so full of hot air. I hate to see all that hot air go to waste. There must be a way to harness that energy. Then again, we'd still be burning shit if we did that even.

[Pavulon]

19. Sorry, Rather fund ADM and us agri business than

the rest of the scum who take trillions in us dollars for oil We can afford an extra dollar for milk and a bit more for beer. Puts the US economy in control of the most powerful resource in the world..

Not dead dino juice. Ethanol and biodiesel are great.

[MadHound]

22. One suggestion for you

Biodiesel, using algae as the feedstock. Not only would you not be using any cropland, but you would actually be giving the small farmer another easy, not energy intensive crop to raise. Plus wastewater treatment plants could use the algae as first stage in water treatment(many do already) and biodiesel is clean to make and clean to burn.