I stand with the Mods and Admin

[Hutzpa]

any threads and Post advocating for Nader should be locked and banned, this Forum

is for Democrats, It is not an Independent Forum nor is it a Ralf Nader website,

I say Lock and Ban baby all the way.

Go to Nader's website and support him......cherrio!!






:argh: :argh:

[Liberal Veteran]

1. I second that. All in favor say "Aye".

[Canuckistanian]

2. Create a Nader dungeon

Hey, it worked for 9/11, Guns and Israel/Palestine posts.

[saltpoint]

3. Nader deserves to be held accountable for his often absurd and ill-conceived

comments.

I oppose the ban on grounds that we are overwhelmingly Democratic to begin with and Nader is extremely unlikely to change that.

The counter argument to an independent candidacy is the steadfastness of its opposition, of which many of us are active components.

I say leave the dart board up and let's have at him.

[Swamp Rat]

18. I suggest a 'Nader forum' so folks can discuss him without creating a distraction.

Let's give him a happy home. :D

[saltpoint]

20. Your image for Nader of the psychedelic phallus works.

It may be that he is a bright guy -- god knows I wouldn't care to debate him -- but on the other hand, he definitely isn't going to get my vote or even much of my consideration.

[Swamp Rat]

22. Unfortunately, Nader is more like Amanita Phalloides

[saltpoint]

25. I just got an image of Ralph Nader himself logging into DU this morning

and reading (and seeing) what's been posted about his announcement.

If you are really here among us, Ralph, hi, and go piss up a pipe.

[Swamp Rat]

26. Nader threads are popping up

I'm sure he'd be pleased.

DU admin could nip this in the bud before it gets worse... and it will.

[saltpoint]

28. Yes. The impulse to vote "independent" is a lot less strong if Obama is

nominated.

Republicans consider McCain a "maverick." Totally delusional, but there it is. Some indies will go for McCain. A lot more I think to Obama.

I'm really not seeing the rationale for a Nader candidacy here. If there were one, Bloomberg could fill it more convincingly, plus he's got the bucks.

[Vanje]

39. Naw. Nader isnt at DU

Nader is drinking expensive Cognac in Karl Rove's hot tub.

[eppur_se_muova]

64. Or /Phallus impudicus/ ...

Speaking of lovely binomials, the insect perched on the tip is a flesh fly (Sarcophaga haemorrhoidalis)

[Richard Steele]

4. Hear hear! K&R

[lonestarnot]

5. Hell yeah!

[Drum]

6. kick!

Agreed...Nader-ites, find another site.

:kick:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

7. Indeed. Another poster recommended his supporters start up naderunderground.

That's the ticket. Let the guy and his supporters actually do something truly independent instead being parasites on the Democratic party.

[Hutzpa]

11. Absolutely, let his supporters help his ass this time

no more, 2000, you helped Bush, so this is 2008 and your time of succumbing to

this right wing conspiracy is over....here me...over.

[DavidDvorkin]

8. Absolutely

Nader discussions belong in www.sabotagethedemocrats.com.

(I'd put that URL into my browser, but I don't want to know if there really is such a site.)

[populistdriven]

30. woot! Ralphie its available to you! - 'DNS Resolution Failure: Web Server Not found'

[DavidDvorkin]

32. Hmm. Try again in a few days!

[Hutzpa]

35. lol!!

bwahahahaha!

:rofl:

[WilliamPitt]

9. Agreed

[HereSince1628]

10. Well, I thought it was for Progressives too,

Once upon a time there were quite a few "Greens" here.

I think we'd do well to keep in mind that it was VOTERS who shifted their votes to Nader that hurt Democratic candidates chances in the past.

Democrats in the past 4 GE cycles, operating under the guise of the Clintonian model of triangulation, have largely moved their message to the RIGHT.

For some on the left they felt they had no choice other than outside the DLC dominated Democratic offerings. One of the great assumptions of the DLC is that the democratic base will vote against the GOP and in that process will accept a candidate that is far to the right of where the democratic base would want their choice to be.

Nader provided an option against that and some on the left took it.

Is that a problem with Nader? The lefties that voted for him? Or is it a problem with an arrogant Democratic Machine's message?

[Richard Steele]

12. It's not for ANYONE who is trying to defeat Democrats.

nm

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

13. I'm listening to him on MTP, he started right away attacking Senators Clinton and Obama.

He made it maybe 15 seconds tops, before he criticized them. Not a peep about McCain, though. At least, not yet.

Oh, and then he blamed the Democrats in Congress for the last seven years. :crazy:

[HereSince1628]

24. Yeah, I got that. But as it was created it was for democrats and progressives

Which set up the forum for some level of internal conflict.

Fundamentalism has very little place in liberal, progressive, or "d"emocratic institutions.

You can sharpen your dick on the steel of rules if you want, but the reality is that the clash of ideas IS the basis for a functional democracy.

[Richard Steele]

29. Sounds like you should PM Skinner and explain your concerns to him.

:eyes:

[bbgrunt]

43. I agree with you HereSince1628. If DU becomes a lockstep

exclusionary board, the terrorists(republicans, authoritarians, nazis, etc.) have won.

[Hutzpa]

46. Funny how we interpret

words. Sure hope you're joking, I did not see your

sarcasm emoticons, but I'll assume you know better

than to use scare tactics which is straight out of

the RW machine. So watch yourself now.

[bbgrunt]

52. ".......So watch yourself now."

Is that a threat or a rw scare tactic?

Honestly, I find your response rather condescending and inappropriate. My response was in support of HereSince128's concern about shutting down free discussion and speech in the effort for purification. Isn't that exactly what the media and the right wing did following 911? What happened to Bill Maher? Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon? What kind of chilling effect did it have on anyone wanting to express a different opinion? How is this militancy from the left different?

Nader is not the problem. It is the two party duopoly that demands obedience over discussion. If Gore had been willing to include some of Nader's concerns instead of leaning right with people like Lieberman, Nader wouldn't have had to run.

I won't vote for Nader, but I think his concerns are valid and should be discussed.

[Hutzpa]

55. If you feel the way you do

then you can go with Nader and start your own party, it is your right and

Nader's too, all I'm saying is this, threads and post promoting Nader's

agendas should be posted on his website or his forum.

Thats not hard to understand is there?

It not about Nader running for President, its not about folks supporting

Nader, its not about third party or fourth and fifth party,

its about having discussion about the Democratic candidates and what

all of us are here for, and what we believe in. Hope this helps.

I won't vote for Nader, but I think his concerns are valid and should be discussed.

His corcerns have already been or are being discussed here on a daily bases.

[bbgrunt]

57. yes, it is hard to understand.

"all I'm saying is this, threads and post promoting Nader'
agendas should be posted on his website or his forum.
Thats not hard to understand is there?
It not about Nader running for President, its not about folks supporting
Nader, its not about third party or fourth and fifth party,
its about having discussion about the Democratic candidates and what
all of us are here for, and what we believe in. Hope this helps."

and then:

"His corcerns have already been or are being discussed here on a daily bases."

Then you must be advocating discussing his concerns and agenda here on a daily basis without mentioning his name.

[Hutzpa]

61. I have an echo

don't plagarize me bro...

[Lint Head]

14. I agree 10,000 %.

Nader was part of the reason we lost the first time.:dem:

[hlthe2b]

15. Well, it would be a relief to see DUers going after Nader and

taking a break from vicious posts targeted at either Clinton or Obama--our Democratic candidates, I must say. On the other hand....


What has the policy been toward those who wanted to debate Ron Paul? He too is certainly no Democrat, nor certainly a liberal/progressive. Seems a similar stance may be in order...

[smoogatz]

16. K&R

Fuck Nader and anyone dumb enough to vote for him. A vote for Nader is a vote for McCain.

[laylah]

17. Absolutely agree! nt

[LWolf]

19. Nader hate is a well-used, and quite successful, misdirection

every time the Democratic Party, and Democratic voters, don't want to reflect on their own mistakes and failures.

I think it's pathetic. Anyone who truly cared about the health of the party wouldn't work to keep dissatisfaction or dissent hidden. The only way to resolve it is to acknowledge it, bring it into the open, and address it decisively.

I also have never before cast a vote for Nader, and do not contemplate doing so now, so the usual inane rebuttals are illogical and completely ineffectual in my case.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

33. As if we haven't been having this discussion until St. Nader spoke.

Argh. :eyes:

[LWolf]

44. The conversation I've heard is all about

how The Democratic Party, and America, won't elect anyone who actually stands for us, so we might as well shut up, get in line, and vote for the lesser of two centrist evils.

I haven't heard anyone exerting any effort to reach out to the left wing. I've heard "where else will they go?" I've heard their votes taken for granted, and I've heard pure hatred expressed for anyone who wouldn't allow their vote to be taken for granted, and taken advantage of. I've heard more concern about capturing moderate republican support than I have about keeping the left wing of our own party.

Personally, I think that's an asinine way to campaign. But that's just me.

[Truth2Tell]

62. No, it's not just you LWolf.

It's many of us in this Party. The DLC/Republican wing of the Party uses Nader as foil. They project their hatred for progressives and populists within the Party - whom they dare not criticize here - onto Nader. You hit it on the head. And it gets old.

[LWolf]

65. Thank you.

It helps not to ALWAYS be the lone wolf, lol.

[MilesColtrane]

40. There's a difference between changing your party's platform and candidates,...

...and simply abandoning it.

Discussion of Nader's positions is tolerated here. Advocating a vote for him is not.

[LWolf]

45. And did hordes of DUers, upon hearing this announcement,

rush in to advocate for Nader, or did they just flood the board with Nader hate?

Please note that I can recognize, and comment on, the hypocrisy and misdirection of Nader hate without "advocating a vote for him." Which I have never done. Neither have I ever voted for him, or contemplated voting for him.

I can still be absolutely repulsed by the ugliness, and the short-sightedness, behind the response.

[MilesColtrane]

58. I never said you were championing him as president.

I was pointing out that dissent is tolerated here right up to that point.

I don't hate Nader, but I can understand why some would.

It's impossible for some to separate his message of getting corporate money out of the political process, from his hyperbole that the Republican and Democratic parties are equally screwing the American people. (And of course his inability to see that running in close presidential races helps fracture the coalition of voters who DON'T want to see another Republican administration.)

Nader claims that he wants a better America, but his actions directly oppose his rhetoric.

[LWolf]

66. I don't disagree with you on those points.

My point is that I don't think there were too many posts, after Nader's announcement, attempting to advocate a vote for him here at DU. Just hordes of people screaming to throw the non-existent hordes of Nader supporters off of DU.

That tells me that too many DUers, and Democrats in general, haven't learned, or haven't wanted to learn, from the past. Instead of "reaching out" to the left wing of the party, and to the 3rd parties and independents on the left, they prefer to demonize them while supporting the efforts to be a "uniter, not a divider" with republicans. :shrug:

[NJmaverick]

21. Nader is an enemy of liberals and democrats

He has screwed over both groups royaly

[Hutzpa]

23. It took him 15 seconds

to spew on our candidates. 15 freaking seconds, and nothing about

the Republicans....which leads me to believe that this is a RW conspiracy.


Me thinks they have put their foot in it this time.

[The Stranger]

68. Actually, he did spew on the Republicans and Bush at some length.

You must not have been listening.

[Jawja]

27. Yes.

This is not a third party forum. It's a Democratic Party forum.

[Edweird]

31. Agreed. Fuck Nader.

[OnionPatch]

34. Have to agree.

If Ralph is sincere in wanting to bring about change, I don't see why he doesn't try something different because he's been trying this same technique to bring about change election after election and IT'S NOT WORKING. No matter his intentions, the results of his presidential campaigns have resulted in making things WORSE. Isn't that the definition of insanity or something, when you keep trying the same thing expecting different results?

I used to respect him but I am really starting to question his motives.

[Vanje]

42. "I used to respect him but I am really starting to question his motives."

Only just now , you're STARTING to question Nader's motives??

He has collected a lot(LOT!) of campaign money from Republican heirarchy.
Does Nader have a day job?
NO!
Nader is living well off money from GOP strategists.


Nader has been Karl Rove's creature for a decade now.

Question his motives.

[Vanje]

36. Here here! nt

[TahitiNut]

37. Wow! That's a courageous stance.

:eyes:

[Realityhack]

38. agree

[applegrove]

41. Thanks to the mods & admin for keeping the DU a high quality site in terms

of Democratic discussion.

[AngryAmish]

47. HOw very brave of you

[The Stranger]

69. I agree. If anything divides DU, it is puerile threads like this one.

[AlCzervik]

48. agreed and why in the hell are people giving so much power to him? He's done some

good work in his life but he's pretty much ruined his reputation because of his giant sized ego, it's a shame.

[Neecy]

49. agree completely

Nader was a non-factor in 2004 and will be again this year. Why waste bandwidth discussing him?

[BlooInBloo]

50. Yup - Nader isn't the problem - it's his fuckwit supporters.

[DainBramaged]

51. Lock and load baby, fucking Ralph, off with his tHrEADS

Douche bag needs to be put back in the asylum. What has he done for America since 2000??

NOTHING

[JerseygirlCT]

53. Totally agree

Let's ignore that jerk as he deserves.

You don't matter, Ralph. Just go away!

[Sydnie]

54. I agree completely! Nadar and Lieberman should both fall off the

face of the public air waves and stop considering what they do a "service to the public".

I wouldn't doubt, for one second, that the same people that supported Lieberman are behind this and were behind it before too!

Naderites ... be gone!

[walldude]

56. Ok, I understand that this isn't a "third party" web site

and we aren't allowed to advocate third party candidates. Fine. But while Nader has turned out to be a kind of an asshat I think many DU'ers give him too much credit for "stealing the election from Al Gore"(and don't tell me they don't say that shit here, I've been personally accused of costing the Dems the 2000 election when I voted for Nader) and not enough credit for the things he says that are true. I also think when he speaks that people hear what they want to hear. I mean, can anyone here disagree with this:


Nader said most people are disenchanted with the Democratic and Republican parties due to a prolonged Iraq war and a shaky economy. He also blamed tax and other corporate-friendly policies under the Bush administration that he said have left many lower- and middle-class people in debt.

"You take that framework of people feeling locked out, shut out, marginalized, disrespected," he said. "You go from Iraq, to Palestine/Israel, from Enron to Wall Street, from Katrina to the bungling of the Bush administration, to the complicity of the Democrats in not stopping him on the war, stopping him on the tax cuts."

Or this:
Pointing a finger at Republicans, he described McCain as a candidate for "perpetual war" and said he welcomed the support of Republican conservatives "who don't like the war in Iraq, who don't like taxpayer dollars wasted, and who don't like the Patriot Act and who treasure their rights of privacy."

"If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up," Nader added.

Sure the guy is a self serving egomaniac but if his candidacy gives legitimacy to ideas like Medicare for everyone then I'm glad to see him in the race. Also anyone angry with him for attacking Dems "in the first 15 seconds" should spend some time in the cesspool known as GDP to see just how fast we eat our own, without help from the likes of Nader.

All I'm saying is I can see banning threads asking people to vote for Nader but please lets not go too far. This is a forum of ideas after all...

[kristopher]

59. I don't give him credit for good intentions.

Like others have said, and I understand it to be true, his funding is mostly from the Republicans. It isn't just how many people actually vote for him, it is the negative message he insists on throwing at the Dems. He offers only pro forma criticisms of the right, then launches into diatribes against the shallowness of the Dems. If you listened to his criticisms today on MTP he was bringing the rights message about Obama and the Israeli/Palestine issue to the front of his critique.

I think he is nothing but a paid shill.

[walldude]

60. Neither did I.. I gave him credit for good ideas.

But whatever... people here make too much of him, he didn't cost us any elections and he won't cost us this one. No matter who's money he uses. I guess maybe he's just getting paid by "the man" to ruin any Dem's chances of being elected? :eyes:

[Mythsaje]

63. C'mon

the shit he says is said here on a regular basis by DUers.

He's irrelevant at this point.

[Hopemeister]

67. K&R

this needs to get looked into by the Mods and Admins, we can't afford to get distracted by Nader chants and supports.

Good on you Spokane

Thank you for bringing this up.

:thumbsup:

[Ganja Ninja]

70. Why should we treat Nader any differently than that other

self promotional nut job Lyndon LaRouche?

[bryant69]

71. Damn straight!

I agree.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[youthere]

72. Damn straight! You GO mods!