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The Up Side Of Nader's Run

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:32 AM
Original message
The Up Side Of Nader's Run
Directing our focus to the real enemy (ies) we face. And who we need to defeat as a group, McCain & Nader. Fighting each other is a waste of energy and takes our eyes off the prize.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Unity is definitely what we need now! nt
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. I welcome Nader's run
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 12:00 PM by wtmusic
The Dem nominee will be forced to adopt positions enforcing antitrust, IMO the biggest domestic problem facing America today.

I said it before and I'll say it again: the only reason 2000 wasn't a Gore landslide was Al Gore.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I Wouldn't Say I Welcomed It
Nader has become like an annoying insect who needs to be swatted, though I do wonder at this point if he has become so totally irrelevant that he won't matter at all. The real danger with Nader at this point is that the Cons will feed his coffers and try to make him into the spoiler that Nader intends to be. We can beat all of them but we need to be united and focus our considerable resources and energy on pushing both of them to the side.
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. If the Democratic candidates pursue policies that make Nader irrelevant
Then, we're set. There won't be any reason for somebody to choose Nader.

If they support policies that Nader can poke holes in, some people will still vote for him.

Sounds like there's a solution in there somewhere. And it's not censoring or ignoring him.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Attacking Nader supporters is the best route
There is no way to please them.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I sure agree with you
I'd like to see us move towards Medicare for all, getting the lobbyists out of politics and the focus of our country be put towards what's good for the working and middle classes. And I really don't want to tiptoe there. We've had enough of the corporatist approach.

Frankly, I think Nader would be happy to be made irrelevant. I know I would like to see that. And I hope Obama does sit down with him and makes some deals. We need that before sitting down with foreign leaders.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. agree.
Nader is a shrewd tactician and has no illusions of winning.

In his career he singlehandedly has tackled America's largest corporations and won. He knows how to get the job done.
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5X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Perzactly. n/t
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. If the Dem nominee
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 12:05 PM by Turbineguy
does not adaopt Naders positions some people will vote for Nader which is good for the Repubs. If the Dem nominee adopts Naders positions some people will vote for the Repubs.

Whereas the Democrat, once elected, can easily take Naders positions without risking the election.

Anybody (who qualifies) has the right to run for President. It's just that I wish some would choose not to.

IMO You are right about the anti-trust issues. It's just that it will likely not be resolved under another repub admin.

Nader has done a lot of good things for America, I just wish he would not do more of them just now.

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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. By now everyone knows his game.
No amount of GOP money will allow him to draw off democratic votes.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. I think that
Nader's self-centered run will have but one impact on the general election: he will marginalize some of the progressive issues, doing a potential disservice to progressive independents.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Which issues?
Ralph will only draw attention to the progressive issues which Obama/Hillary are ignoring.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I Think We Also Need To Be Careful To Not Be Pulled Into The St. Ralph Meme
He too has his achille's heel and is not as pure as the rhetoric would have one believe.

“f LaDuke is looking for Occidental stockholders to criticize, she might want to look a little closer to home. In the financial disclosure form Nader filed on June 14, the Green Party presidential candidate revealed that he owns between $100,000 and $250,000 worth of shares in the Fidelity Magellan Fund. The fund controls 4,321,400 shares of Occidental Petroleum stock.

The Rainforest Action Network -- whose members no doubt include myriad Nader Raiders -- has slammed Fidelity for "investing in genocide," and called for the fund to divest its Occidental holdings.

"The Occidental projects are so beyond the pale about what's reasonable and moral in this modern era," says Patrick Reinsborough, grass-roots coordinator for the Rainforest Action Network. Reinsborough says that his group has been primarily targeting Gore and Fidelity Investments in general, Fidelity Magellan being part of the Fidelity Investments mutual funds network, as well as the one with the largest quantity of Occidental stock. "We have called upon Ralph Nader -- as we would call upon any citizen -- to either divest from Fidelity or to participate in shareholder activism," Reinsborough says. "Gore has much more long-standing links to Occidental Petroleum."

But even if Fidelity were to divest its holdings in Occidental, it holds shares in so many companies Nader has crusaded against, it's hard to escape the conclusion that Nader's participation in the fund is supremely hypocritical. The fund, for example, owns stock in the Halliburton Company, where George W. Bush's running mate, Dick Cheney, recently worked as president and COO. The fund has investments in supremely un-p.c. clothiers the Gap and the Limited, both of which have been the target of rocks by World Trade Organization protesters, as well as Wal-Mart, the slayer of mom-and-pop stores from coast to coast.”

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/10/28/stocks/index.html


“Ralph Nader believes an independent candidacy should “generate more understandings and support for major new directions for our country.” His website says these new directions include “repeal of laws that obstruct trade union organization by millions of workers mired in poverty by wages that cannot meet their minimum family livelihoods.” The site prescribes “a living wage for tens of millions of workers making under $10 an hour.” But the perennial leftist candidate, whose name will appear on the presidential ballot for the third consecutive time this November, has not played by the same rules he strives to make binding for corporations and private businesses. In fact, when the minimum wage rose, he once cut back on the hours his technical staff would work. Despite the millions of dollars he commands, he historically paid his professional staff less than minimum wage. Nader, who told Business Week during the last campaign that he offers staff “unlimited sick leave,” ordered staffer George Riley to take a two-week leave of absence to work on a political campaign, refusing him to pay for the time. When I worked for Ralph Nader in 1980-81, he paid us $8,000 a year, hardly enough to get by on even then. We could scarcely afford the time to spend money, though, because Nader expected staff to work around the clock.

Before I got the job, I went through interviews with eight people on six occasions over a period of nearly two months. Before each interview, Naderites told me they’d decide my fate in a few days. But after each interview, they informed me I’d have to go through another. I barely subsisted during that time, hundreds of miles from my home with no means of support. I later discovered this was standard procedure – they’d tell people they need them in a hurry, then keep them in limbo for months.

Though Nader claims he wants to fight discrimination, he and his staff asked me my age, religion, sleeping habits, family tree, medical history and a lot of other highly personal questions in violation of District of Columbia’s employment law. In a Washington Post commentary, Sidney Wolfe, long time director of Nader’s Health Research Group complained that the government was forcing him to collect medical details on his employees that he did not want to know. This is strange, because he asked me all sorts of medical questions he had no legal right to ask about during our interview.

When I asked the personnel director about the personal tone of the interviewing, she acknowledged that her questions were “unethical” and said the working conditions are “illegal,” people are “treated unfairly” and they want to make sure those hired can take it.:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=1CDB5CAE-1860-4EC8-9E56-D5E4CBBCA7A8
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Ralph is an abscess.
Just a pus-filled infection.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. It's interesting that both these articles appeared in election years
precisely when it was realized Ralph was capable of siphoning votes from a Democratic candidate.

They're both hit pieces. "When the minimum wage rose, he once cut back on the hours his technical staff would work." Come off it, this is supposed to be a scandal? If that's the best they can do Ralph should be nominated for sainthood.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hit Pieces Or Not
Doesn't mean they aren't true and doesn't mean he entitled to a pass if he is going to rail on other candidates. What he did this morning to Obama could be called an election hit piece.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. yep n/t
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Interesting Nader interview from 2004
Randi Rhodes' first interview on Air America: http://www.asylumnation.com/asylum/_r/showthread/threadid_34496/index.html

He hasn't changed.
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