We will live to regret the day we never impeached that son of a bitch.

[kentuck]

Now, I read that he's going to re-instate the existing eavesdropping law and the telecoms are agreeing to assist him? Why wasn't it re-instated before now? Because that son of a bitch would rather play politics with our national security and score a political point than to tell the people the truth. I will always hold this Congress in the lowest regard because they did not have the courage to impeach this President. No excuse they can use is valid under the circumstances. This moron, this embecile, this son of a bitch has broken our laws, pretending to be a dictator, and should be imprisoned.

[H2O Man]

1. Nominated n/t

[TransitJohn]

2. k&r

You are so right kentuck.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

3. I share your anger.

K & R

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. We're victims. And that's how they want to keep us.

Totally impotent to do anything. Democracy is just an illusion.

[walldude]

41. And when the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain

they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre." -Frank Zappa

Although the original quote used the word "freedom" instead of "Democracy" the point is the same.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

50. I don't see "freedom" or "Democracy" in the quote...

Did you leave something out?

Was it "Illusion of freedom"? Did you intend to say "illusion of Democracy"?

Frank always had some good lines. The "brick wall at the back of the theater" will be the prison we are already within...?

[walldude]

55. Sorry the first part of the quote was in the post I replied to. Full quote:

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre." -Frank Zappa

Cheers :toast:

[Maat]

116. That's a great quote (n/t).

[Rebel Scum]

165. Sigh...

I miss Frank, especially at election time.

[earth mom]

51. No-We need to be like the French. We need to watch V for Vendetta.

We need to see how defeating the powers that be was done in the past.

You forget that people hold the power in their hands, they just aren't using it.

Hillary, Obama & McCain wouldn't be trying to ki$$ everyones a$$ like they are doing right now if we didn't have power.

It just hasn't gotten bad enough yet for the people to say "ENOUGH!".



WW 3, The Draft, The Great Depression 2-that's what it is going to take for the people to say "ENOUGH!"

[Truthiness08]

90. V for Vendetta is a British Movie

Fighting the government or the "power" is good and all, but in the end nothing really gets done unless you know how to work the system to get what you want.
As for impeaching Bush it is sad that the members of Congress don't have the back bone to attempt, such a move.

[earth mom]

117. What does V being a British movie have to do with anything?

It's the message of the movie that matters.

Throughout history nothing changed unless the people en masse speak truth to power and stand up for themselves.

If you are so apathetic about it all why even post on DU? Maybe you should go back to watching T.V. and let the corporate media whores tell you some more lies.

[JustDavid]

147. V for Vandetta?

....oh, thats a movie....I searched it as I was typing. OK.

A movie.

A revolution?

Go ahead, you start.

[Gonnuts]

164. and by then it will be too late ...

if it isn't already

[Maat]

115. Well, my vote at the ballot box may not count ...

but I've found that my dollar-vote DOES count. I bought a Prius about 1-1/2 years ago, and I'm currently buying 1/3 of the gas I used to, and we've cut our energy usage and use of plastics WAY down. Take that, Big Oil!

I only give to certain candidates now, and don't give money to either the DNC or the DCCC.

We divested ourselves of oil and defense contractor stocks years ago.

Small steps, but every step counts!

[bemildred]

5. Don't wait, you can regret it now, like I do.

Seven years of regret I got already.

[cyberpj]

154. Ditto.

Seven, plus, and counting.
And I now actually believe the system is broken beyond repair.

[sellitman]

6. Pelosi & company make me ashamed of my own party.

All they have to do is their job.

Nothing more....nothing less.

[earth mom]

53. Pelosi & Co think they are our "Leaders". They all forget they were hired by & work for THE PEOPLE!

:grr:

[MonkeyFunk]

142. They are doing their jobs...

an impeachment that is guaranteed to result in acquittal in the Senate would be a pointless waste of time. It would bolster Bush and hurt Dems in the upcoming election.

[JustDavid]

150. Yep

You got it.....

And the average American will see it as a vindictive(sic) time wasting action that will accomplish nothing.

There is physically not enough time to impeach, even if there were enough votes in the senate.

"I want to impeach that son of a bitch"

Well, me too. But thats not enough to make it happen.

I want to win the lottery. ...waiting...waiting...waiting...why is it not happening?

[Gonnuts]

166. Please ... stop

this tired old talking point has been run into the ground.

The point of starting hearings is that the White House can no longer use "executive privilege" to hide evidence and once the evidence is out, there is no way anyone could not impeach without starting a revolution. And there is certainly enough evidence to start impeachment hearings, which is the premise to begin with. If there is enough suspicion of wrong doing it is the OBLIGATION of the Congress to start impeachment inquires - IT'S NOT SUPPOSE TO BE A POLITICAL DESCISION!

If I had a meth-lab in my garage and the smell spread over the neighborhood the law would be OBLIGATED to investigate, the neighborhood couldn't come in and say, "Oh, you can't do that because it would lower property values".

This "they don't have the votes" argument can only be used by people who are too naive and believe everything they hear or are part of the disinformation network. Which are you?

[MonkeyFunk]

172. No, you stop

I'm tired of YOUR talking points.

Impeachment is entirely a political decision. Always has been, always will be. There is absolutely NO obligation to impeach - it's discretionary.

One doesn't investigate under the banner of impeachment - one investigates, THEN impeaches. And there is nothing in the constitution or in case law that says calling a hearing an impeachment hearing negates executive privilege.

Those are all lies that the impeachbots push regularly. The fact is, without 67 votes in the Senate, it's a waste of time. And there's no way you're getting 52 votes, much less 67.

That said, I'd love to see him impeached and convicted, but it's just not going to happen. Who's to blame? The republicans. I'm sick of people blaming Pelosi just because she can count to 67.

[lame54]

179. The decision to NOT impeach...

is the true political decision
and it's an immoral one

[MonkeyFunk]

181. Yes, it's a political one.

Same as the decision to impeach is purely political.

So how does that contradict anything I said? Impeachment is ENTIRELY a political decision, whether the decision is to impeach or not to impeach. That's the way it's set up in the constitution.

[JDPriestly]

188. The legal precedent is a bit uncertain, however, it suggests

that the president does not enjoy an executive privilege in a criminal matter.

[MonkeyFunk]

193. That is true

but that supreme court ruling referred to a special prosecutor, not congress. And an impeachment investigation is not a criminal investigation in the regular sense.

But the fact is, you don't impeach, then go looking for crimes. You find evidence of the crimes, then you impeach.

[Gonnuts]

195. Two words

Bull Shit

The Framers of the Constitution mention impeachment SIX TIMES and made it vague so be used as a check against abusive Executive power. It's political tool only as far as to keep the Executive from riding rough-shot over the other branches, but it's vague so even the appearance of impropriety can be quelled.

There is certainly enough evidence to suspect laws have been broken, and that IS the crust of it, isn't it? LAWS HAVE BEEN BROKEN, so therefor NOT to impeach now becomes political.

If you wake in the night and find a burgular what do you do? Go back to sleep and wait till morning hoping they don't rape, kill your family and you before they leave? NO - you do whatever is necessary to get them out ASAP.

Well, bush and cheney are raping, robbing and murdering and YOU want to go back to sleep. It's a cowards way out - and it's why Congress is riding at 18% and why you are all wet!

[Wizard777]

7. He can't reinstate the old expired law. Seperation of powers issue.

They are probably getting warrants. If that is true then they don't need this. The first order of Congress should be seeing how they muddled through this.

[peace13]

13. I read where the law that just expired is still 'in effect'

for a year. * made it look like things changed immediately but the blow back has been so bad that now he wants to look like he has solved the problem. Reality is that nothing the man says or does effects this situation.

[Wizard777]

24. An expired law still being in effect is an oxymoron.

Technically both the House and Senate are still in session. To prevent recess appointments. Maybe Bush caved to the extention that was offered. They are being tight lipped on that. But an expired law cannot possibly still be in effect.

[peace13]

29. Maybe so . I don't have the words but I do know the mechanics.

That info has been on MSM as well. If I find the technicality info I will post it here. Peace, Kim

[peace13]

30. Yea here is an article that explains the issue.

KO was where I heard this. It will be about six paragraphs down or so. Hope this helps. Peace, Km

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021508L.shtml


Edited to add: Here is the paragraph
'Surveillance efforts will not cease when the law lapses. Administration intelligence officials said agencies would be able to continue eavesdropping on targets that have already been approved for a year after the initial authorization. But they said any new targets would have to go through the more burdensome standards in place before last August, which would require that they establish probable cause that an international target is connected to a terrorist group.'

I do see it is on targets that are currently under investigation.

[slipslidingaway]

49. When Does the Sun Set on Warrantless Surveillance?

Some additional links on the sunset clause...

Tuesday, August 07, 2007

When Does the Sun Set on Warrantless Surveillance?

Marty Lederman

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/08/when-does-sun-set-on-warrantless.html

"...Thus, "acquisitions" authorized by Attorney General Gonzales will be permissible for one year, even if that period extends beyond the ostensible February 1, 2008 sunset date. I think it's fair to assume that the Attorney General will authorize a system of such acquisitions on or close to February 1, 2008, which will mean that the warrantless surveillance can continue until . . . February 1, 2009, or twelve days after the next President is sworn in.



ACLU Analysis of the Protect America Act (8/29/2007)

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/31496leg20070829.html

"Section 6

Continuation and Sunsets. Subsection (a) puts the bill into effect immediately...


Subsection (c) creates a 6 month sunset.

Subsection (d) mandates that any order in effect on the day of the sunset shall be in effect until its court ordered expiration date, which may be up to a year

It other words, orders issued in February of 2008 – immediately before the sunset – will be in effect until February of 2009, keeping this program alive through the end of the Bush Administration."



Wiretap at Will

http://www.slate.com/id/2171747/pagenum/all/#page_start

"....A year ago, we might have chalked this up to the kind of groupthink travesty that unfolds when the same party controls the White House and both houses of Congress. But the saddest thing about this whole affair was the haste with which congressional Democrats—some seeking re-election next year in conservative districts—folded up their objections and went on vacation. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., complained that Democrats were "stampeded by fearmongering and deception." What's extraordinary is not so much how craven the Republican rhetoric was, but that even now, after seven months of the obvious mandate conferred by their congressional majority, Democrats are still so easily cowed. However alarmist the talking points, congressional Democrats have "a Pavlovian reaction," Caroline Fredrickson of the ACLU observed. "Whenever the president says the word terrorism, they roll over and play dead."

Proponents of the Republican bill might have had a leg to stand on if the Democrats had opposed "modernization" of the old FISA law. But they didn't: They simply opposed modernization without accountability. It was the president and Republican lawmakers who held out for the latter, running the risk that the changes would not be written into law before the August recess. Yet Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., got away with lines like, "Al-Qaida is not going on vacation this month." Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, another supporter of the bill, came up with this canard: "We're at war. The enemy wants to attack us. This is not the time to strive for legislative perfection." Huh? The bill passed the House 227-168 and the Senate 60-28.

The only concession in the new law is the promise that its provisions will sunset in six months, giving Congress an opportunity to work on something even Lieberman might deem "legislative perfection." In an effort to save face, many Democrats are vowing to fight another day. But if you look closely at the final subsection in the law, it indicates that while the legislation itself will sunset in six months, any programs authorized under the legislation may continue.

When President Bush signed the bill Sunday, he made clear that he, for one, is looking forward to more comprehensive legislation on wiretapping, not because he thinks the Democrats are going to take anything away from him when they revisit this issue, but because he's kinda hoping they'll cough up even more. Specifically, he's hoping for "meaningful liability protection" for telecommunications companies, like AT&T, "who are alleged to have assisted" the government by furnishing NSA with warrantless access to domestic communications. Yale Law professor Jack Balkin highlights the peculiar wording of Bush's fervent hope: He can't acknowledge that the phone companies helped out, because what they did was illegal. But that's not going to stop him from asking Congress to shield them from liability. It seems a bit greedy—even cheeky. But then, you can't blame a guy for asking. And given Congress' willingness to definitively euthanize FISA and declare open season on domestic surveillance, he might just get what he wants."


S. 1927: Protect America Act of 2007

Text of Legislation

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1927



Monday, August 06, 2007

Bush to Democratic Congress: Your Complete Capitulation is Not Good Enough

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/08/bush-to-democratic-congress-your.html

JB

"From the President's Message on signing the FISA fix:


When Congress returns in September the Intelligence committees and leaders in both parties will need to complete work on the comprehensive reforms requested by Director McConnell, including the important issue of providing meaningful liability protection to those who are alleged to have assisted our Nation following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

Note the key item on this wish list: legal immunity for having participated in the illegal NSA program..."

[Swamp Rat]

36. Bushler has a very long history of not following "the law."

Look to over 1,110 signing statements for proof.

[lligrd]

8. I'm With You

I don't understand at all the reluctance to impeach those who so blatantly break our laws. Why should anyone follow laws when the President doesn't?

[bdamomma]

38. and it will come when us regular citizens will start saying that

if * has not paid why should we, and we all know where we will end up. How do you say "double standard".

[liberal4truth]

120. IMO, thats why we are in such a mess. The leaders dont follow the law, so why should Joe/Jane Doe ?

Simple logic would suggest that that is why there are so many law-breakers these days.

Fact: True leaders lead, by example.

In the past our leaders even went into battle, like General George Washington did.

* and his ilk are _NO_ "leaders" by any stretch of the imagination.

They are cowards of the worst order, plain and simple.

[dkf]

9. But we would have Cheney and he's worse.

And if we impeach Cheney who would we have after him?

Easier to win the Presidency following the awfulness of Bush.

[Qutzupalotl]

22. We should impeach Bush and Cheney simultaneously

since they often collaborated on their crimes.

We could still impeach them after they are out of office, for posterity's sake.

But we absolutely must indict and imprison both of their sorry asses.

[bdamomma]

35. I remeber when John Dean said focus on someone who is

a little lower on the ladder and then it will go to the top, that person was Libby, and we see how that turned out. Never say never, I think that is something we all know now.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

54. I believe you... Both of them now.

Much better now than later...

[Frisbee]

77. "But we absolutely must indict and imprison both of their sorry asses."

Anything less than life behind bars for the two corrupt pieces of shit is a travesty. And to the gallows would be justifiable. When did we become so soft on treason? Yet I'm willing to bet that neither one ever sees a charge brought against him. (same goes for Rummy, Perle, Wolfowicz, and the rest of the neocon scumbags).

[Baby Snooks]

43. Not if he was impeached first...

If he was impeached first, Madame Speaker would become Madame Vice-President. And of course if Bush was then impeached, Madame Speaker turned Madame Vice-President would become Madame President. And that just wouldn't do. Let's finally understand the priorities here.

If you think Hillary Clinton wigged out over Barack Obama, imagine her wigged out over someone else becoming the first Madame President.

And don't think a deal wasn't made. That is all the Clintons seem able to do. Make deals. And apparently that is all Nancy Pelosi seems able to do as well. That and sit smiling as the Emperor speaks. She is, after all, the Empress. And she settled for that.

[Q3JR4]

91. Well

if cheney is impeached then the current pResident will have enough time to pick a new VP before congress gets around to impeaching him too (assuming, I believe, that the senate approves of his choice). The only way that Pelosi would become president would be if both the traitors were removed at once.

[Baby Snooks]

162. My bad...

"The only way that Pelosi would become president would be if both the traitors were removed at once."

Of course but then of course most of us wanted both of them impeached together. But, well, again, the Empress decided she liked being the Empress.

[tavalon]

44. We already have Cheney, or hadn't you noticed?

He likes working in the shadows. Impeach his sockpuppet and make him come out of the shadows.

[WishingforChange]

66. After Bush and Cheney are impeached next in line is Nancy Pelosi.

[rucognizant]

95. I GOT IT!

Maybe that's why Conyers is holding back! He knows more than we do! That would throw the Dem. party into the hands of Pelosi, Emmanuel, Hoyer................& change the face of this election,. however little we think of the choices.............

[Amonester]

98. Personally, I think the next President...

will NOT let go of the law-breaking precedents the ** junta will get away with.

And that is, IF a next President is to ever win next year.

BTW, note the 1 year illegal "extension" (enough to spy on ANY candidate's phones, etc.).

[OrrenBoyle]

10. You're right. It's no mistake the Democratic led Congress is at 18% approval or less.

I just hope it won't kill their reelection chances the way we're hoping the GOP will suffer from Bush's 36% approval.

[acmavm]

11. Yes sir, we most certainly will.

By the way, where are Barrie and Hils on this?

[Gonnuts]

168. Where's Barrak and Hillary?

HA! Missing in action. If you don't think that both of these so-called "people's candidates" aren't part of the problem I have a Timeshare I'd like to sell you in beautiful downtown Baghdad.

The Dems won't impeach because they're are part of the criminal enterprise we refer to as our government. I don't give a fat-rat's-ass which one of the so-called front-runners in either party get in office the illegal wars will continue, the economy will crash and tyranny will rein.

[leftofcool]

189. Exactly!

Obama who says he didn't vote for the war wasn't even in the Senate when the vote went down. Hillary voted for the war and won't admit is was a mistake. They both voted to fund it and will keep right on funding it. They are both as much a part of the problem as any repuke and we lost our best hope in John Edwards.

Left of Cool

[antigop]

12. k&r, kentuck. n/t

[bbgrunt]

I ALREADY regret it. k and r

[gordianot]

14. Democrats challenged Nixon and won, the almost challenged Reagan.

This miscreant son of a Republican establishes a level abuse unique in our History has been given a pass by most Democrats. What really burns me if they leave office they will do so financially intact. In a few years BFEE will float another favored son using the powers established by George W. Bush and create a real Unitary Executive.

[raccoon]

144. It was Nixon's misfortunate that he dealt with Democratic-controlled Congress.

Had he not, he might not have had to worry about impeachment.

I totally agree with the OP the Congress should have impeached Dubya. At least they could have made the attempt.

[samplegirl]

15. I think about daily

and still feel congress failed us.
K&N

[Mike03]

16. Yes. NT

[Greyhound]

17. How else do you expect the republiks to maintain their power to obstruct?

If the Democrats were to do their jobs they would find themselves without scapegoat for their inaction during the coming crisis. Can't have that, now can we?

[99th_Monkey]

18. Congress just can't find the time. Too busy issuing "strongly worded letters" to WH. -nt

[jgraz]

19. Let's make sure Pelosi lives to regret it. Shirley Golub for Congress!

http://www.usalone.com/on_the_table.php

[sce56]

155. You can see her video here on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x96603

[lonestarnot]

20. Yes we will regret the the day.

[bdamomma]

40. yes, we will but do we really want the rest of world to pay too.

[lonestarnot]

72. What do you mean alyce douglas? If we imp;each the world pays or if we don't the world pays?

I am easily confussed. :P

[bdamomma]

139. what I meant was should the world pay for our mistakes.

shouldn't we hold ourselves accountable for not being in the streets by the millions to stop these thugs. Sorry for the confusion. This whole situtation is disgusting and shameful, they have gotten away with so much, and they have no respect for the American people that is what gets me pissed off.

[TheWraith]

21. For the upteenth time, we do NOT HAVE THE OPTION.

I don't like it any more than you, but without seventeen Republican senators on board, impeachment goes NOWHERE. Period. End of story. As long as he's got the Senate republicans with him, no amount of willpower means impeachment.

[kentuck]

25. For the umpteenth time...

You do not have to have 17 Republicans to impeach. You have to have that majority to convict. Clinton was "impeached".

[onenote]

32. And for the umpteenth time...

You won't get a majority to impeach. Or, more precisely, you won't get a majority to authorize an impeachment inquiry by the House Judiciary Committee, which is the first step? Why? Because at the moment no repub would support it and, without any repub support, there are more than enough blue dogs/conservative democrats/moderates that won't support the resolution. When Nixon was impeached, the first step - the resolution authorizing the impeachment inquiry by Judiciary -- passed by an overwhelmingly bipartisan margin of 410-4 (or something close to that). Even in the Clinton impeachment, there were 31 Democrats that supported the impeachment inquiry vote. Without a similar level of bipartisan support, quite a few moderate/conservative/swing district Democrats aren't going to support the impeachment inquiry resolution. Which is why, of course, virtually all of the co-sponsors of the cheney impeachment resolution voted to send it back to committee rather than have a vote on it since they knew it would lose.

[kentuck]

42. We don't have a one-vote majority in that Committee??

Doesn't the majority have more votes in committee? If you mean that we cannot get a majority of Democrats to agree, then that may be true. But, we will still rue the day.

[onenote]

62. The first step is a vote by the full house of representatives

The standard practice in impeachment (to the extent there is such a thing) is for the full House to vote to authorize and direct the House Judiciary Committee to conduct an inquiry and report back to the House with recommendations as to whether or not to act on articles of impeachment. That first step has never been taken. (The vote in the House on DK's "privileged" resolution merely referred the resolution to the Judiciary Committee but did not authorize/direct an inquiry. Could the Judiciary Committee on its own hold "impeachment" hearings? Maybe. But given the historical precedent, they probably wouldn't conduct a formal impeachment inquiry without the first step being taken by the full House.

As for the majority: the Democrats have, I believe, a six vote majority on the committee. But again, its not the committee that needs to act to really get things going...its the full House and while the Democrats have a sizable majority, all it would take is for 16 of the more than 3 dozen conservative/moderate/blue dog democrats to vote no and the impeachment effort would die. The leadership knows this and isn't going to force that vote.

[warren pease]

81. And that's why the "leadership" is the object of more nationwide rage than even the goddamn GOP...

"The leadership knows this and isn't going to force that vote."

You call this leadership? I call it the work of an incompetent, rudderless, co-opted, ineffectual, conniving, back-stabbing, lying, enabling, complicit coward who feeds at the same slimy corporate trough as the feral GOP pigs.

It's compelling evidence of Pelosi's inherent weakness that she can't even command enough respect or inspire enough fear to control a few scared freshmen, some pathetic GOP lites and a few garden variety assholes who laugh like hell whenever she does that faux assertiveness two-step.

When she declared that impeachment was "off the table," she sold out her constituents, the progressive wing of her own party and, as it turns out, most of the potential voters in this country -- who are reacting to her "leadership" by giving congress a healthy 16 percent approval rating.

Even lower than Bushie himself, which is quite an accomplishment when you consider he's had seven long years to establish himself as the world's second most despised man. Right behind Mr. 9 percent, the absolute lowest form of alleged humanity currently slithering across the planet -- and who she's also scared to impeach and risk that 16 percent approval.

She richly deserves to be a one-term speaker, except that the consequences of a GOP-controlled House are even more hideous than what we're currently stuck with.

But her policies have neutered any serious opposition to the continued assaults on sanity perpetrated by the loons in the white house. She should be the subject of a serious investigation to determine exactly what's behind her disgusting behavior.

Money? Complicity? Plain old spinelessness? Let's find out because this woman's actions don't pass the sniff test.


Really... doesn't this just make you sick? And if not, why not?




wp

[onenote]

86. I'm not a fan of custer-style leadership

"Leading" the membership where they refuse to go and thus forcing an embarassing defeat isn't my idea of leadership.

Not one of those members that you think she is supposed to force to act made impeachment an issue in their campaign. Indeed, virtually no members did. And that was before Pelosi (and Dean) took impeachment "off the table". It was taken off the table because it never was going to be on the table given the utter lack of interest in the issue during the 2006 elections.

Reality bites sometimes. This is one of those times.

[warren pease]

88. Well, I can see your point(s), but I just can't go along with the argument...

... that the way to win in November is to do absolutely nothing that could be construed as divisive, partisan, progressive or even assertive. Contesting a signing statement could be considered divisive or partisan, I suppose.

They're apparently being told -- by the same predictable cadre of nitwit advisers who always insist that the way to voters' hearts is to abandon all principles and run to the right -- to avoid taking any positions that could be interpreted as obstructionist, anti-Bush, anti-Iraq occupation, anti-troops, pro-terrorism, pro-impeachment or anti-military spending.

OK. You'd think then that they might find something else worth fighting for. But no... there's no leadership on moving away from for-profit medicine and toward universal health care. The administration has had free rein in wrecking the economy and there's no leadership calling for an end to the usual GOP borrow and spend and print a few trillion more fiscal policies. Nothing on environmental issues; nothing on offshoring jobs; nothing on ruining the middle class; nothing on rolling back the bucks for billionaires tax policies...

You'd think if they can't or won't do the critical stuff -- impeachment, defunding the Iraq occupation, prohibiting any attach on Iran -- they'd at least try to pass legislation that would help normal people in very important ways. And so what if the asshole vetoes it. He's on record yet again as the most useless president in history. Let the GOP run on that record.

But it all begins with leadership, and the dems ain't got any. So nothing changes, except for the worse, and Cheney continues to mutter about nuking Iran and rewarding lenders for their predatory practices and all that great GOP point of view.

But it's time for dinner and I'll catch up later.


wp

[Zhade]

107. Letting criminals get away with murder is okay with some DUers.

They're cowards, of course.

[onenote]

145. forcing a vote that would result in the acquittal of these guys is fine with others

I'd love to see them impeached. But I live in the real world and am resigned to the fact that it won't/can't happen. Doesn''t mean that its okay with me. Just means that it is what it is.

[Usrename]

111. I don't know how you can make that claim.

The voting constituents of almost every representative is FOR impeachment. I know the subject has been stricken from the political debate, just like it was stricken from the YouTube debate after it was found to be the subject that voters were the most interested in. They don't even poll on the subject any longer, because it is so popular.

So you really think all these folks are really going to diss their own voters on the issue that the most important to the voting public?

I'd like to see that, I really would. But they will never do it because then we would know who they are, and who to replace in the House.

Pelosi is just complicit, that's all. She is providing political cover, and that makes her as guilty as the Bush regime. She is on their side.

[TheWraith]

176. And without removal from office, impeachment is pointless.

Unless it's done solely for the sake of self-gratification, and you don't mind the fact that it'll give the Republicans a sympathy boost. Impeachment has no effect unless you also remove them from office.

And you mistakenly assume that it's a sure thing we could even muster a simple majority in the House to impeach. That's far from guaranteed.

[tavalon]

47. For the umpteenth time, Senators convict

Representatives impeach.

[Zhade]

105. So, let criminals walk without even trying. Real brave.

Thank goodness MLK didn't have counsel like you.

[TheWraith]

178. There's a difference between bravery and stupidity.

Bravery is knowing when something is possible despite long odds. Stupidity is assuming that anything is possible despite long odds, even when it's not. In this case it's not.

[Senator]

133. It Is Our ONLY Option -- And We Already HAVE The Votes.

The Senate has alreadly voted 90-9 to oppose torture in defiance of this war criminal regime.

Sadly, this was negated (impeachably) via Rule By Signing Statement.

Will more than half of those GOP Senators publicly reverse themselves -- defy their new (torture-victim) nominee for president -- and declare themselves for history, to the world, and to their families as supporters and enablers of illegal torture and war crimes? Perhaps, but that's not most likely.

And actually, any increased amount of political-willpower means impeachment. It is like a dam ready to burst -- with the pathetic beltway boys running out of fingers to plug holes.

Besides, it remains our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

---

[TheWraith]

177. Voting against torture isn't the same as voting to remove Bush from office.

Even the most moderate Republicans are going to run back to the party leadership on that.

[Senator]

197. It will be in an impeachment trial

There's no one to "run back to." They are the party leadership. And many of them will be voting themselves out of office if they try to defend war criminals.

Very few will rush to the aid of a "worse than Nixon" 19% approval rating.

---

[zorahopkins]

23. I Am 110 Per Cent In AGREEMENT!

Bush/Cheney should have been impeached a long time ago. If impeachment had been the FIRST priority of the Democratic Congress elected in 2006, chances are pretty good we would be rid of them by now!

We will RUE the day that our elected leaders failed to act and do the right thing -- IMPEACH Bush/Cheney!!

[Loge23]

26. Hold them accountable

We need to do everything we possibly can to hold them (the appeaser Dems) responsible.
Vote against them, call, email, whatever.
Don't accept the status quo.
The only logical, right, and just action we had was impeachment.

[Rex]

27. I regret ever seeing George Bush or his brimstone brood.

The Bush Family is a regret of history. They exist to leech off of society and average people. The ultimate, parasitically American family.

And what happen to Bill? Got impeached over a blowjob. Dems are so vilified in this country and Repukes loved for some bizarre reason.

[EFerrari]

28. Yes, we will. K&R

[AzDar]

31. I agree. Sets a VERY bad precedent for those who may try this shite in the future.

Impeach NOW!!!

[slipslidingaway]

33. Agree K&R n/t

[Swamp Rat]

34. Yes, we will.

[smoogatz]

37. Word.

Up. K/R

[Karenina]

39. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, Kentuck!

The "people" need to descend on the offices of their "representatives" AND the media to make their views clear. Until that happens BIDNESS AS USUAL will continue.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

141. I have written, phoned and even sent my "Progressive" Congressman a pocket edition of the

Constitution, telling him it was his duty to uphold it. He has written me back telling me he was not going to support impeachment. Needless to say, my frustration level is very high.

[Karenina]

191. These self-styled Übermenschen will not react

until they FEAR the WRATH of those whom by oath they are meant to represent. Until they FEAR their offices being occupied. Until they FEAR their homes being surrounded by those whose interests they have betrayed. Until that moment ihr seid alle ÜNTERMENSCHEN with whom they need not much concern themselves.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

194. Do you recall in the Doan hearings, that a "hit list" was planned by Rove against

certain Representatives. My Congressman was on that list. I think he made a deal with the "Democratic Devil", Ron Emmanuel, to fight for his seat. He obviously hasn't a clue what danger we're in.

[Karenina]

196. He's looking out after HIS OWN ASS.

and could give a rat's ass about yours...

[YDogg]

45. Pretending to be a dictator?

How about acting like a dictator?

[Angry Mollusk]

46. Why do right wingers defend Bush's lies, yet insist Clinton deserved impeachment for his BJ?

I have encountered many a right wing Bush apologist who doesn't think Bush did anything wrong. Even if presented with proof Bush lied us into war, they don't care. But these same right wingers grit their teeth with rage when discussing Bill Clinton, on how he 'lied' to congress. (about a blowjob) One local right wing radio host (who is a Bush apologist) thinks Clinton should have served jail time.....(he lied about a blowjob for chrissakes!!!)

YET they defend Bush- there is a serious lack of logic in the minds of these right wingers..

[Ganja Ninja]

131. I love it when right wingers tell me how Clinton embarrassed the

country when he got caught having an affair, like the current moron hasn't been a total humiliation.

[aquart]

198. Right wingers do that? I thought it was Obama supporters.

Too damned hard to tell the difference.

[countryjake]

48. That imbecile has become the 17-vote elephant in the room...

when I brought up impeachment and accountability at our state caucus, I immediately found myself face-to-face with the main Clinton backer in attendance, practically hushing me and harping on the typical "not enough votes to introduce such measures/must have power before any action can be taken" line. Then, within seconds, the most vocal Obamar also descended upon us, oozing about not alienating the masses by being so confrontational and the necessity of focusing on the positive to draw in the fence-sitters. I don't think that either of these woman disagreed about the need for impeachment, as it turned out, (after many others at our caucus found that it actually was something they wanted to discuss) but were simply spouting the desired party line of nipping any talk of it in the bud. It wasn't introduced as any resolution to send on to the next caucus, our county convention (mainly cause that would have required me to be there to present it) but a fair majority of our little precinct were definitely in favor of taking action against the current administration, no two bones about it.

I believe the party will also regret taking the stance they've taken, in the long run.

[pinto]

52. I hear you, yet impeachment was never going to pass a vote in the Senate. I still

favor attacking the Neocon agenda against the federal government, and foreign policy, in the same vein they have used. Piece by piece. Department by department. State by State. Election by election.

[SunDrop23]

56. Yes. What a disappointment. We get majority, then allow ourselves to be bitch slapped.

[Wednesdays]

57. Take the worst of all Republican presidents in the last 90 years

Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush41...take all the worst aspects of all of them...all the worst criminality, the worst incompetence, the worst disdain for the ordinary citizen...mix them together and you get Dubya.

And Dubya will die in bed of old age, among riches, never having to answer for anything. Count on it.

[Stinky The Clown]

58. You get no argument from me. What you *do* get is a K&R

[orleans]

59. i've regretted it for years now. n/t

[Golden Raisin]

60. And he's not gone yet either.

There's a lot of time left for a lot of bad things to happen and Bush/Cheney are just the guys to perpetrate them.

[mzmolly]

61. They could at the very least CENSURE the bastards.

K and R, once again.

[Hissyspit]

63. Yup. Really, we already regret. Some people just don't realize.

[bdamomma]

140. this band of thugs will not stop look at what they have done

to our economy, and how this debt will have to paid off by our children and their children's children. They need to shipped to the Hague (wishful thinking).

[ConcernedCanuk]

64. Yup, you and many other nations.

.
.
.

[kotsu]

65. I would vote in a heartbeat

for the one candidate that would promise to seek criminal charges against all the sons of bitches that have been in the Bush administration...including the resident himself.

But...of course...I'm dreaming

[mwb970]

84. I'm with you there.

I don't even care if it's Nader. Any candidate who promised to prosecute the bush gang would have my vote. I want them to get theirs, and I want it real bad.

[Cleita]

67. They will regret it when they find themselves out of jobs in

November. I hope we can pursue these miscreants through other courts though even if it has to be after they leave office. We will never have any credibility as a democratic nation if we don't and this nation won't heal until every single one of the anti-Americans are brought to justice.

[kenfrequed]

156. uhm

Impeachment has actually been tried and it works. Criminal pursuit after leaving office has never really occurred for executive crimes.

[Cleita]

171. True, but since it seems that there will be no impeachment

this time, I'm throwing out other possibilities that should be tried. I don't want to see these criminals walking out into the sunset to build libraries or make millions on the lecture circuit acting as if they are statesmen.

[Solly Mack]

68. "the people" will, yes

[bluestateboomer]

69. Yeah!! K&R

[dbonds]

70. I regret it every day I wake up.

Nothing has been more miserable in my life than the last 7 years.

[OwnedByFerrets]

71. K & R

[Laelth]

73. I already regret not impeaching him.

I'm not over regretting it, either.

:mad:

-Laelth

[bjobotts]

74. Agreed but "we" had nothing to do with it. Pelosi agreed no consequences.

The 'money' party was getting too much $ from Bush and these congress people won't stand up for fear of losing their funding.

[bjobotts]

75. The same be done to him that as gov. of TX he did to so many for murder.

[malaise]

76. K & R

IMPEACH

[KT2000]

78. Getting rid of him

will not be enough. We need to impeach him, charge him criminally and put him in jail.
We can only expect others to pick up where he left off if we don't demonstrate the penalites for treason.

[RainDog]

79. word n/t

[deutsey]

80. I regret the day he stole the 2000 election

and few did anything to stop him.

We will all (if we haven't already) live to regret letting the likes of Bush and his ilk get away with what he has since 2000.

America and the world may never recover from these squandered eight years...:evilfrown:

[mwb970]

82. The lack of accountability is simply maddening.

bush does whatever he damn pleases, breaks our laws and treaties, defiles our Constitution, lies to us constantly, bankrupts out future, wages war on false pretenses, and makes our once-great country into a despised, torturing lawbreaker on the international scene, ruining our reputation around the world, creating thousands of new terrorists, and drastically increasing our vulnerability.

And in response to this endless torrent of un-American crimes and immoral and unethical words and behavior from this man and his band of thugs we do.....nothing? That's right. We do nothing whatsoever. He sails away scot free. Why? Nobody seems to know. And it is maddening.

[rateyes]

83. You do know his mother well!

And, you're right.

[puebloknot]

85. K&R We are regretting the day already, and the way is being made clear...

...for he or she who next ascends the throne to *move on* in bipartisan harmony, and brush the whole damned mess under the carpet.

No matter who courts the world at large as the new face of America, starting in 2009, America still has that dirty little secret in the closet that *everybody* knows, but politely does not talk about -- until a moment arrives when Truth will Out!

[benld74]

87. AMEN. DAMN STRAIGHT. THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL

[KoKo]

89. I don't think "They" will ever Impeach the SOB's......

After listening to that AEI Instute Thing on C-Span today...I know "Powers that Be" are already handling the "transition" and their BIG PLANS convinced me. What we've seen from the newly installed 2006 Congress will always be...."stalled" newly "installed." :-( We are sunk...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

92. We have to get rid of the Democrats that are sold out to Bush or making too much money

by not impeaching the asshole.

[MsLeopard]

93. Impeach!

Indict. Imprison. Now.

[bluerum]

94. This congress chickened out. Did not do their job. Allowed the trashing of the constitution.

They can mince words, but the bottom line is that they the criminals get away with murder.

[Quantess]

96. Here's Rec #100

[The Stranger]

97. Here's Rec # 101.

[coljam]

99. Do Not Impeach

I hate these MF ers as much as anybody but we would be doing their ilk a favor if we impeached. As soon as there was an indictment of any kind for anything this asshole would pardon or claim exec priviledge...BUT if we keep our powder dry and get a Democrat elected president we can wait for our chance and this criminal gang can be put in jail.....lets just wait for Bush to exit along with his constitusional power and then throw his and all his gang away forever.


Some might doubt what I say . For you I say - Say Scooter Libby 10 times.

[pop goes the weasel]

106. what a fantasy

Once scumboy and his pisswater brigade are out of office, do you really think they will be out of power? How's that prison sentence for Henry Kissinger working? Or John Negroponte, Don Rumsfield, and the other architects of the Salvadoran Option? War criminals all, they live unmolested, even feted by the right wing in this country. And if you think that W needs to be facing impeachment to give himself and his cronies a pardon, you forget the earlier pardons given by Republican presidents. They will make sure to give themselves a general pardon before they leave office, and the current Democrats who are too cowardly to impeach, who were too cowardly to contest the 2000 coup, will be too cowardly to go after the men and women who have destroyed our national reputation, killed hundreds of thousands, and shredded our Constitution.

[greyghost]

126. I wouldn't rule out an appearance before the Hague for...

Chimpy McFlight suit, Darth and the Poodle.

[kenfrequed]

157. Absurd

You are hoping for something that has never worked while casting aside the only real option we have to go after a sitting President. Of course criminal prosecution has occurred in pursuit of the small fish but last I checked Ollie North is doing fine. Impeachment is the best option in this case and then indictments for his criminal administration, anything else opens the door for more executive pardons.

[Lugnut]

100. K&R

Damn straight. The time for excuses is well past over. When is enough enough?

[spag68]

101. Nonimpeachment

I for one allready regret it.

[Xenotime]

102. YEs! You are right

[LibraLiz1973]

103. I fucking regret it right now- it's a travesty

But amen to everything you said

[Zhade]

104. I hope those here who advocate letting criminals walk live to regret it.

May they see what utter fools they are.

[leftofthedial]

108. the previous clinton did nothing to hold poppy accountable

indeed, they seem to have hit it off quite completely

[femrap]

109. k and r

He has ruined this country....and I wonder if we will ever recover.

[hootinholler]

110. Personally, I am living in regret of the lack of impeachment.

[Spiffarino]

112. K&R just for calling him a "son of a bitch"

:D:thumbsup:

[bleever]

113. No justice:

no peace.



NGU.

[JCMach1]

114. To hell with impeach now... let's hold the Dem nominee's feet to the fire to proscecute

for war crimes

[greyghost]

125. If I were Chimp and Darth I wouldn't count for a nano second that...

the Hague won't. I wouldn't plan any trips to Europe after I left office. Once Douche bag is out, I truly believe that The Poodle and he are going to have another date. They are not going to enjoy this one.

[argyl]

118. I never thought I could despise a president the way I despised Nixon but

this SOB makes my blood boil.Nixon was a prince compared to this nasty little piece of work. If today's media had the integrity of the media of the Watergate era this bastard would have been run out of the White House by Jan. 2002. Or never been allowed to take office in the first place.

[rambler_american]

136. I'd FAR rather have Nixon in the Oval Office

'course he's dead and couldn't do much damage. Unfortunately * is only brain dead.

[balantz]

119. Our Democratic leaders are owned by the regime.

Otherwise they would most certainly have done away with shrubby and zany LONG ago.

[ClayZ]

121. Impeach, indict, imprison! K and R

[mmonk]

122. There's no "we". There's no representative government

unless you are a military industrial complex or security complex contractor or multi-national corporation or a foreign government.

[democrank]

123. K & R

You`re right. Bush should be in prison along with his enabling sidekicks. But...none of them could have gotten away with their slimy, criminal behavior without the help of a big chunk of the electorate, corporate media and a majority in Congress.

[Enthusiast]

124. I agree with you, brother!

No president has ever deserved impeachment more that this lame brain.

[rambler_american]

127. It's not too late

but I have lost hope that it will ever happen. Future presidents will have this awful precedent to work with.
Democracy was a noble experiment and it might have worked but for some corrupt repugs and spineless Dems.
I fear for my grandson's future in this fascist country.

[leveymg]

128. Don't worry. If Nancy and Harry don't get him, Judge Roy will

[Demeter]

129. I Regret It Already, More Each Day, and Have For YEARS!

Should have happened on 9/12/2001

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

130. We'd have to make it a two-fer

and impeach Bush/Cheney as a package deal. Prez Cheney would not be an improvement, just smarter.

Thanks to Nancy's leadership, well, Nancy has a nice new big airplane to fly around in. Other than that, not much.

[JohnnyRingo]

170. Off Topic....re: your screen name

As a fellow fan of the old Firesign Theater, I wonder if you've seen Phil Proctor's site. http://www.planetproctor.com/
He posts a completely new entry about once a month (or when he feels like it) and the mix of comedy, quotes, and shameless promotion, makes for a great read.

Though he hasn't updated for a few weeks, I think he's on a vacation (from what, I don't know), and I suspect we'll see a new one soon.

I remember when a couple years ago, he began writing anti-Buxh entries. In the next issue he replied to those who e-mailed him complaining... telling them to find another site, because their president is a moron.

"Planeteers", he calls his readers.
That's me. *honk honk*

[Perry Logan]

132. Look at it this way: maybe he'll campaign for John McCain.

[lonestarnot]

134. kick

[Triana]

135. George W. bu$h, Psychopath...

...seems it runs in the BFEE family, too.

And I think we've already lived to regret that the scumbag hasn't been impeached.

[peacebuzzard]

137. thanks for telling it like it is.

k & r

[marias23]

138. You are right as Bush has set new standards for Presidential power

You are right as Bush has set new standards for Presidential power - unless we peel them back pre-Bush any president will feel he/she can do same.

[bdamomma]

143. welcome to DU marias23.

set a lower standards cause he ignores the laws and the three branches of government too. Someone should slap him down.:hi:

[fascisthunter]

148. Bush is a Precedent That Has Stained Our Country for Years to Come

because some in our party seem cool with it all. There are no excuses....

[fascisthunter]

146. Bush Has Been Gaurded by the Dem Leadership for Too Long

wanna lose elections dems? Just keep playing possum and keep telling folks the same excuses over and over again. Yah... that'll work.

Probably the same arrogant know-it-alls that ran Hillary's campaign...

[The Stranger]

149. DU is too busy trying burn Ralph Nader in effigy -- maybe even try to indict him or impeach him --

even though he holds no office.

Bush isn't the enemy -- Nader is. Get with the program!

:sarcasm:

[riderinthestorm]

151. K & R

I've got to add my voice here before the thread gets too big and I can't open it anymore.....

[Blackhatjack]

152. Fifteen(15) Words That Will Live In Infamy .... n/t

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

153. K&R - He's a true piece o' work.

Chimp and several of his cronies (particularly Vader) have lied to the American people, threatened our civil liberties with the bogus Patriot Act, committed war crimes and profiling, and have gotten away with murder, literally. How this can't be formally called into question is a huge mystery to me. They both make Scooter's offenses look like a picnic, though he was unlawful too.

[Javaman]

158. We already are....

nixon was never impeached and as a result, the door was flung wide open for anyone in the presidency to try and get away with anything because the fear of impeachment was removed.

anyone with an ounce of brains knows that Clinton's impeachment was a sham and was nothing more than a hit job by the right. That is clearly evident now, considering the level illegal activity this nation has been subject to over these last 7 1/2 years.

The ball was put in motion by in 74 and only now we are seeing the result.

considering our nation at the moment is only slightly better on paper than a 3rd world nation, we will continue to slide toward that status within the next 5 years.

failed economy, failed domestic policy, failed foreign policy, a pariah to the world, our reputation shot and crook after crook allowed to get away anything they want. enter office poor, retire ultra wealthy.

"I dial it in and tune the station
They talk about the U.S. inflation
I understand just a little
No comprende, it's a riddle

I'm on a mexican radio. I'm on a Mexican, whoa-Oh, radio"

[trusty elf]

159. If there were any justice in this world

he would be tried, convicted and incarsinated*.


*a shrubbism

[Deep13]

160. I regretted it once and that has been constantly. nt

[iamthebandfanman]

161. im hoping for criminal prosecution

after hes outa office.

i wont hold my breath tho.

[aquart]

163. I regret it NOW.

I don't expect to change my feelings on the subject.

Not impeaching Bush guarantees that the next president will be a king. And good luck if all that power goes to his head. If Bush did not meet the standard for impeachment, how can anyone?

It is not only the Republicans who will choke on this error.

[kentuck]

167. Bingo !

"...Bush guarantees that the next president will be a king."

[electropop]

169. Wiretaps are the reason Congress is terrified of the dictator.

Presumably by now, Bush has dirt or at least personal info on virtually every Dem politician in the country. I can't help but speculate that Dems are betraying us because they've been blackmailed.

[greyghost]

185. Ding Ding Ding

[paparush]

173. Proud to be Rec #200!

[Pacifist Patriot]

174. Failure to impeach Bush has thrown open the door of precedent.

What the hell does a president have to do now to get impeached? (Besides being a Democrat...preparing for the inevitable response with that one.)

[frog92969]

175. rec #202

"No excuse they can use is valid" - Damn Right!

[spanone]

180. i will recommend every impeachment thread that goes up...fuck these fuckers

[Fire Walk With Me]

182. Someone remind me again, which of our candidates support immediate impeachment?

[cascadiance]

183. Think we might be able to OJ him into prison in better times later?...

That would be a true spontaneous national holiday. Even if it weren't official, it might be a day for everyone to "take off".

[AllyCat]

184. Completely agree. By not impeaching we will never determine the extent

that Congress aided and abetted these murderers and thieves. Nor will we ever see the perps behind bars.

[greyghost]

186. The Europeans look at life a bit differently then we do...

Basically they're patient, and they know how to use that to their advantage.

If I were Bush and Darth I wouldn't plan any European vacations once I leave office.

[LibDemAlways]

187. Chimp never travelled much before he was installed, and I

don't think he'll be doing much travelling once they pry his fingers loose from the pillars outside the WH. I suspect most days he'll be found at the 19th hole of some exclusive Dallas country club/golf course getting shitfaced and telling off color jokes to the retired CEOs whose bank accounts he has so enriched.

If he ever does leave the country, it will no doubt be to go visit his old friend Kenny Lay on the spread in Paraguay. The Bush family didn't invest in 10,000 acres for nothing.

[Initech]

190. Yeah, the assholes in chief should definitely be behind bars!

[skywalkerjlp]

192. I've regreted everything his administration has done the last 4 years

BUT blame Bin Laden MOSTLY if he didn't release that video 2 days before last election BUSH WOULD HAVE LOST....and yes I DO HOPE that saddam hussein's gun ( currently mounted on the wall in the Oval Office ) IS COCKED AND LOADED !!!!!

[candymarl]

199. This means he could have done it legally all along

Where are our representatives on this? This is a clear case law-breaking. They've got him dead-to-rights.

Never mind. He'll never be impeached. The party leaders have spoken.