Catholic Church says science exhibit is inapproproate

[proud2BlibKansan]

Catholic church: 'Bodies Revealed' inappropriate for field trips

Local Catholic officials on Tuesday said the “Bodies Revealed” exhibit opening Friday at Union Station is “unseemly and inappropriate” for church school field trips.

The joint statement was issued by Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann of the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas and Bishop Robert W. Finn of the Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph.

Their position is the same as that taken recently by the Archbishop of Cincinnati, where another bodies exhibit is being shown.

Echoing that position, the local leaders said: “Whatever the merits of ‘Bodies’ as an educational exhibit, and however well-intentioned the exhibit’s creators might be, we believe that the use of human bodies in this way fails to respect the persons involved.”

more . . . http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/506516.html

[Kerrytravelers]

1. Even if, you know, the people wanted their bodies to be used in this way?

*sigh* If you don't like something, don't go, but don't stop others.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Well that's the problem

Apparently the people running the exhibit can't say for sure that all these people gave permission for their bodies to be used.

But who cares? They are DEAD.

I just think this is one of the silliest debates ever. And it is a HUGE deal here because the exhibit opens this weekend.

[Warpy]

4. They want bodies to feed bacteria, not be used to educate

Back in the day, if a woman had to have her uterus removed to stay alive, she needed permission from her priest plus a burial plot so that she'd join it when the rest of her died. Amputated limbs were treated the same way.

In the Irish church I grew up in, the resurrection of the flesh was taken as an absolute fact, and you sure didn't want to do anything like donate a heart or a kidney to the sick because your body would be missing it when it rose.

Me, I'm taking no chances. This body has been nothing but a world of trouble and I don't want any chance of ever getting it back.

I'm going to be cremated.

Remember, the biggest barrier to the development of modern medicine was Mother Church. Early anatomists had to dig up the freshly buried for corpses to dissect, then rebury them before dawn.

[hyphenate]

40. Amen to that

(pun intended!)

Cremation with spreading my ashes to the four winds, or over the Atlantic Ocean. Can't get better than that. Say goodbye to mother church and all who protest.

[flamingyouth]

3. There was a lot of controversy when that exhibit was here too.

Mostly because the bodies were suspected to be Chinese political prisoners:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/290607_bodiesed.asp

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Yes that's what they are saying here too

But again - they are DEAD. Why is it important that they might have been prisoners?

[Trajan]

6. One reason, perhaps ...

IF the bodies were not released for this purpose, or if they were acquired by illegitimate means, well that would not be a good thing ....

Respect for the dead is a common tradition, and it is far more important to make sure the families of such individuals receive their remains, if known, than to be denied the right to make the call on their own ....

Even the family should not be able to insult their own ancestors without the overt approval of thoe deceased themselves ....

People can sign such approvals before dying ... If they did not contract a preference prior to death, then their bodies should not be used; for science or any other subject ...

[theredpen]

8. Yeah, why don't we just make soap from them?

Who cares how people died? If they're dead, they won't mind if I make their skin into lampshades or their fat into soap. Why would anyone care what they wanted?



We respect the dead because it is part of respecting the living.

[davidinalameda]

10. you're kidding right?

if they were prisoners, they had no control over what happened to their bodies after their death

it's gruesome to think that the Chinese government skinned these people and sent their bodies on exhibit

and it's even more gruesome to think that people paid money to see them

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Unless these people were deliberately killed to get their bodies for this exhibit,

I really see this as a non issue.

And no, I am not kidding.

[davidinalameda]

29. so instead of burying them, or whatever

you're fine with the Chinese government hacking apart their bodies so they can send them on tour

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. It doesn't bother me in the least

I also think they are actually doing some good by being part of an educational exhibit. But buried in the ground, what good would that be?

[davidinalameda]

38. how respect for the dead

that they didn't get in life?

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Because China would probably execute less people if there was no market for their bodies

The problem with complaining about such a thing is that this country also has the death penalty.

[CatholicEdHead]

34. If they come from this source then it is fine to boycott

but if it is from people who willed their bodies for this purpose there is no problem. Just send the appropriate grades over.

[tuvor]

7. "...but our exhibition of relics is still fine and dandy."

What's that about a plank in your brother's eye, again?

[theredpen]

9. Those relics weren't taken involuntarily from political prisoners

But then again, now that the Chinese political prisoners are dead, why shouldn't we make them into art exhibits? Right? :sarcasm:

[tuvor]

12. That wasn't the church's position.

Go find somewhere else to post irrelevant replies.

[spoony]

15. Reading problem, tuvor?

The fact that these bodies are unwilling prisoners is very much relevant.

[tuvor]

17. I don't mind smartass replies as long as they can be backed up.

So tell me, where in the article does it state that the "Bodies Revealed" exhibit makes use of unwilling prisoners?

[countryjake]

19. Read about the investigation here:

N.Y., China Investigating Black Market in Bodies
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4296982&page=1


This image, according to a self-admitted participant of the bodies black market, was taken four years ago at a place where the bodies of executed prisoners and others are essentially sold for about $200. He later purchased bodies from this facility, some of which went to medical schools in China, and some of them, he says, to the Dalian company that supplies bodies for display in the United States. (ABC News)

[tuvor]

22. Sounds like no one's quite sure exactly what's going on.

From your link:

In a statement, the Office of Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said it investigating "whether representations made to the public about the methods used to obtain the bodies exhibited in the U.S. are in fact false."

Premier Exhibitions said it would cooperate fully in the investigation.

In its public statements, Premier has said all of its bodies are supplied by the plastination laboratories of the Dalian Medical University in Dalian, China.

The president of the Dalian Medical University, Dr. Tang Jianwu, told ABC News his university does not supply bodies to Premier or any company for public display.

The supplier for Premier's "Bodies...the Exhibition" is actually a private, for-profit company called the Dalian Medi-Uni Plastination Labs located 30 miles away from the Dalian Medical University.

The company is run by a professor from the medical university who says the university initially owned 70 per cent of the operation and provided bodies, but has recently pulled out because of bad publicity.

[countryjake]

23. This photo tells me all that I need to know...

The former employee told us he took the photos on his first trip to the facility where he was shown what was available. On his second trip, he says he began picking up bodies and was not able to take photos.
(ABC News)

[spoony]

20. Certainly.

The article describes the same action taken by the Archbishop of Cincinnati, where the exhibit is being shown that is being criticised for its...procurements. So, the only thing here off-topic and unrelated to the article is your nonsense about relics.

[tuvor]

24. Read carefully: We're not talking about the same exhibit.

The main exhibit discussed in the article is called "Bodies Revealed" and the other (in Cincinnati), "Bodies: The Exhibition". I'm talking about the former, and you're talking about your assumptions regarding the latter.

However, it doesn't matter. The Catholic Church, according to this article, would appear to have the same problem with the exhibits regardless of whether they made use of people who consented or not.

It would have been nice of the article's author to be explicit about the reason for the Catholic Church's rejection, and as far as that is concerned, perhaps I was too quick to jump the gun and bring up relics. But until we know the reason for the Church's objection, we don't know that my comment was entirely irrelevant.

[theredpen]

30. The relic comment was off target, but you are right that there's some hypocrisy here

After all, the Catholic Church created a bunch of these:



And hasn't denounced them.

Most of these "Body Works" style exhibits use bodies that were freely donated, although due to the enormous amount of money they bring in, some shady imitators have entered into it.

Still, if the bodies are freely donated, there's nothing in Catholic theology that says there's anything wrong with that. Churches — particularly Catholic Churches — are a mixture of the traditions that the represent and the society in which they exist. It's a sad fact that many churches have been co-opted by the religious right and their tiny-brained agenda.

Edit: fixed image link

[Viva_La_Revolution]

26. a forensic anthropologist could give us real proof, one way or the other.

I hope this isn't true.

[skater314159]

31. Yes, that is true. nt

[JVS]

39. Relics are not exhibited, they are venerated.

There's kind of a difference.

[BlooInBloo]

11. Knowledge IS inappropriate to religion, it's true...

... Hell, even Kant knew that.

[Arugula Latte]

35. As Mark Twain said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

[countryjake]

14. Whole thing reminds me of Vincent Price's "House Of Wax"

Procuring the right muscular young man or attractively pregnant woman to sell their bodies as a highly profitable entertainment exhibit is not what I'd consider very ethical.

I find nary a thing which I agree with the Catholic church on and I don't see this plasticizing-body business as either "unseemly or inappropriate", but the companies engaging in this new form of art have been questioned on where they get their specimens, they have lied about it, and it appears that the sources for each of their "projects" could very well have been engaged in finding the right body to suit a particular exhibit. The claim originally was that some university medical center in China was responsible for providing cadavers, but that was investigated and it turns out to be a back-alley shed where the bodies were coming from. How they fill their orders for the American enterprise has yet to be discovered.

I am not religious, at all, but I sure as hell would not appreciate finding that Carolyn Jones had been murdered for her exquisite body structure (she was a victim in the movie I mentioned) and put on display for the American viewing pleasure. Similarly, I'd hate for some poor mother of a guy unjustly imprisoned in a foreign land to wonder for the rest of her life what became of her son, while he's posed in some museum, dead as a doornail, pitching a football.

This takes body snatching to a whole new level, educational or not. It is a human rights issue, not "unseemly" as the religious pundits try to imply.

[and-justice-for-all]

16. I do not see any issue with this exhibit...

and I would love to see it!

That is what animals look like underneath their skin. Bones and muscle.

[orleans]

21. yes, i agree. you wouldn't want children to know they have bodies.

they might grow up and actually want to do something with them

actually...to be honest...because they are "real" i do find it rather creepy. i wouldn't go see it for that reason--i'd get all depressed, wondering who this person was in life, what that person did, how they felt, etc. i'd be way too distracted to appreciate the purpose of the exhibit.

[TheMadMonk]

25. Slightly off topic. I was reading a copy of New Scientist magazine...

...on the bus a few years ago. It had an article on the original (German IIRC) exhibition featuring the "exploded" plastinated bodies. A girl of about five sitting opposite caught a glimpse and was absolutely fascinated. Didn't bother her a bit.

And I recall being equally fascinated by the multiple transparency overlays in the encyclopedia at about the same age. Both the motor car engine and the human body.

Squeamishness is an adult thing.

Not sure where I read it, but I very much agree with the assertion that funeral rites are merely a reverent form of garbage disposal.

[orleans]

27. "Squeamishness is an adult thing" sounds about right. n/t

[BoneDaddy]

28. I am torn between interest and the ghoulishness of it

I see both sides.

[noonwitch]

32. I know what you mean-its kind of gross-looking, and probably scary to little kids

I don't see a problem with high school kids seeing it on a field trip, but little kids will see it and have nightmares.

But we're talking about catholic schools, which have the right to say they won't take a field trip to this exhibit. Kids in catholic school read "Julius Caesar" instead of "Romeo and Juliet"-they are still pretty well educated.

[Arugula Latte]

36. I asked my kids if they wanted to go and they were both enthusiastic.

It was fascinating -- yes, and bizarre, too. My kids didn't seem to be negatively affected at all. My daughter said the only thing that made her feel a little queasy was seeing the isolated digestive system side exhibit.

[Marrah_G]

37. I actually have no problem with this

As long as they are not imposing their views on the public they are free to avoid the exhibit.