McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NY Times

The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

Mr. McCain’s likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a “natural-born citizen” can hold the nation’s highest office.

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

“There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent,” said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. “It is not a slam-dunk situation.”

Mr. McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a Navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that Mr. McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html

---

I think this is a non-issue but still kind of fun to speculate about.

[tularetom]

1. Well if he didn't attend a madrassa there

I guess it's OK.

[seriousstan]

2. This is total B.S..

The requirements for citizenship and the very definition thereof have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress first extended citizenship to children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, under the first naturalization law: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."

[guitar man]

34. yeah, but

wasn't McCain born before then?

:rofl:

[Dr.Phool]

3. Even worse,

Was he involved with Manuel Noriega back then?

[Olney Blue]

26. It is rumored that he took a "waterbabies" class with Noriega

[LostinVA]

27. LOL

[tsuki]

4. The Naturalization Act of 1788 says: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be

born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."

[Wizard777]

16. No law can trump or otherwise modify the constitution. That law could be overturned.

[bigworld]

5. The Canal Zone was unequivocably part of the US at the time.

[hobbit709]

6. I have a piece of paper signed by Dean Rusk

Secretary of State back in 1967 that states that I am an "American Citizen By Birth". Which is not quite the same as "Native Born American". I was born in Austria in 1950 to an Austrian mother and American father. My mother had to become a naturalized American but I didn't have to. To me the distinction was that I couldn't run for president-which is a job you couldn't pay me enough to take.

[Mojorabbit]

10. I was born in Bermuda

with an american father and a portuguese mother. She and I became naturalized at the same time. I was in second grade and had to pass a test to get my citizenship.

[qb]

7. I saw McCain... birth... canal... and I just stopped reading. nt

[yorkiemommie1]

9. me, too!

i had to slow myself down and re-read it carefully! LOL!

[daleo]

12. And the word zone

Who figured it required a whole zone?

[alfredo]

13. Go to your room.

[MediaBabe]

8. Legal scholars live for this kind of stuff!

Imagine. Somewhere on this great big web there is a discussion board where they are at each other's throats, calling each other stupid names and tearing their hair out trying to get the other side to SEE THE TRUTH!

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Is that what that sound was?

[Qanisqineq]

11. This is ridiculous

I'm not a McCain fan but this is just crazy. He was born to American parents who happened to be living outside the 50 states on a US military installation because of his father's military service for the United States. Saying he isn't a natural born American and can't be president is really screwed up. I don't care if it were McCain, Clinton, Obama, even Limbaugh... that is just messed up.

Maybe I'm really offended by this because I live overseas because of my husband's military service. If I had a child on a military installation here, or even in a Korean hospital because I don't live near a big enough military base, s/he wouldn't be able to be president some day? Messed up.

[alphafemale]

23. Yes. This is one of those threads that makes DU look really stupid.

He's a Natural Born US citizen.

If your parents are citizens they could be on friggin' Mars when you are born.

You are a natural born US citizen. Period.

[LostinVA]

28. A friend was born in Guam while her parents were stationed there

She has both a Guamese and a US birth certificate, and had dual citizenship until she got older. She is considered a native US citizen.

I'm definitely not a McCain fan, but this is a bit over-the-top. He can run for President.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

30. delete...wrong place

[Matteon]

14. Anyone who says

He is not constitutionally eligible is either retarded or just good ol fashioned stupid.

[Politicalboi]

15. Good enough for war but not Prez?

Now I am no supporter of McCan't but the law also states that if you had been arrested you cannot be President unless your name is Bush. Besides I would rather be up against McCan't than Romney.

[Wizard777]

17. Iraqi Hospitals are on the verge of collapse. We are providing medical treatment to Iraqi's.

So if an Iraqi woman has a child in a military hospital on a military base. That child is an American born on american soil and eligible to become President of the United States. Right?

[sofa king]

19. Is that Iraqi woman an American, too?

With an American father?

Then the question probably doesn't apply as well to McCain's case.

Better examples might be found in George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and James Monroe, all of whom were once citizens of another nation, born outside of the United States.

Exceptions were made for them, and similar exceptions will be made for McCain, should that dark day come.

[Wizard777]

20. The Constitution makes no mention of the parents or their citizenship.

Mc Cain doesn't qualify for the citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution loophole. Mc Cain is old. But he's not THAT old. So I'm going to say no. Neither parent is American. Is the kid an American eligible to become President? Remember he was born on a military base, which is considered to be american soil, just like Mc Cain.

[The Croquist]

29. George Washington was born in Virginia

I know that in 1732 Virginia was part of Great Brittan but the Constitution specifically deals with this:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of
the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Maybe that's because the guys writing it wanted to be President but the fact is people born in the US prior to September 17, 1787 were exempted. McCain's not that old.

That said I think he's legal because he was born on what amounted to US territory.

[Wizard777]

18. Also would a test tube or invitro baby be considered "natural born?"

The implications of that phrase can go well beyond where you were born.

[comtec]

21. This is just a ploy to remove him from the race "gracefully"

If he was born on a military base , that IS US Soil, no matter where in teh world it is. An attack on a US base is the same as attacking the motherland. That, I believe, is a very well accepted tenant of military bases and embassy's around the world. That those isolated places are considered to be tiny slices of said country.

If that is what their basis is - not born in the 48 - hawaii and AK had not joined when he was born, he's THAT OLD!! - is lost because he was born on a military base, not a local hospital.

That said, i think it's just a way to give him a graceful out and let mittens in. with him out of the race, literally, the power brokers can put whomever they really want to run for prez on their side, and they realize that mcflop is incapable of capturing people's votes. No one like or trusts him. Middle for the road goppies like him, but they are more likely to vote for Obama, if they aren't racist ass holes, because aside from not keeling over in the next 30 minutes, he shows real hope and a sense of competency.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. That must really be a bitch. Because, he is afterall, a white man.

Oh, to be a white male in this country and to be treated as a second class citizen. It must really suck.

[leveymg]

25. Dems had best not press this one, lest we end up with President Schwartzenegger

"Ah'll be bock"

[ProdigalJunkMail]

31. can we please stop this?

It is a matter of the definition of 'natural born' as is defined in the law. The Constitution does not define it so the law must...and it does...here! Any challenge to his status before or after election will be thrown out...

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

sP

[unc70]

35. Would Winston Churchill have qualified? And about dual citizenship

Would Winston Churchill have qualified if he had chosen USA vs GB? His mother certainly qualified under current rules, although slightly different laws/regulations were in effect 100+ years ago.

While the analysis in this thread is likely the case, do we have sufficient court cases to ensure there could not be a valid consitutional challenge? Similar for Richardson, I believe.

Finally, does/did Obama have dual citizenship because his father was a citizen of Kenya, a British colony, when Barack Jr. was born? Kenyan or possibly rights to British Overseas? If so, did he ever renounce?

[Fly by night]

32. If Presidents have to be "natural-born", how did a toadstool like Bush qualify?

[gollygee]

33. McCain is a natural born US citizen if he was born where his US military father was stationed

this is ridiculous.