Sorry to report - I see no way to beat John McCain

[Prefer]

Sorry to be honest in a way that will not please anyone, but I saw the John McCain bio on MS-NBC last night.

Recall the effect of the 911 loop we had blasted into our brains? Well there will be a few new loops blasted into the psyche this season.

One is footage John McCain crawling from his burning jet on the aircraft carrier. Another pilot's rocket fired into McCain's fuel tank, creating a disaster of exploding ammo and fuel like none have seen. He comes off like an action hero.

Another is John McCain laying in the hospital in Hanoi, describing how he was shot down and captured. This one portrays the suffering he underwent for his country.

Third is the casting of McCain as a new Ronald Reagan - a legacy which went back to the early 90s. There is even a clip of Regan endorsing McCain's senate run.

I am an Obama supporter, but I find myself wondering how America is going to be able to turn away from someone who underwent what he did for his country (and ON FILM at that). It is visually compelling and makes him look like he has an extra 25 years of experience that Obama doesn't have.

I don't think Edwards, my prior choice, could have beat him either. The only one I think who could have been truly competitive is Kucinich, on the basis of having "Straighter Talk" than McCain. Kucinich is so brutally truthful and honest, I think he just might have been able to pull it off.

So now we see why the big propaganda on the right was the return to the values of Reagan. It was aimed at McCain all along.

Edit: here are a couple pictures I found of this era



here is a video
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/25/mccain-touts-his-service-his-sacrifice/

People love someone they perceive as having "suffered for them"...

[lligrd]

1. 100 Year War

Enough said!

[tekisui]

2. Not so fast. he supports Torture, now.

With endorsing Torture he has forfeited the respect he earned.

Not to mention he has a very heavy weight around his neck, it's called Iraq. The cycle of violence will take him down, with little required help from the Dems. But, we will help expedite the fall.

[Hugabear]

3. We need to keep Abu Ghraib in people's minds

Do we really need 100 more years of this?

[Winterblues]

America is completely burnt out on Republican rule

Reagan himself could not win this year. Texas is experiencing the largest turnout in history and the voting hasn't even begun yet. This will be the most embarrassing beat by a Republican in recent memory..Sorry to pop your baloon but thems be the facts.

[madmom]

103. NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American voter! They bought into bush twice didn't they?

[Jamastiene]

163. Bingo! We have a winner.

You nailed it.

[Echo In Light]

174. Exactly. Even if it's blatantly stolen again, many will buy the ruse unquestioningly. THAT's America

[slackmaster]

137. That's what a lot of people were saying in 1974 after Nixon resigned

No more Republican presidents for a full generation, said some.

[peace frog]

4. Well allllllrighty then

That tears it, cancel the election, nothing else to say, end of story, goodbye.
:eyes: :rofl:

[seabeyond]

43. ba HA HAAH i was thinking the same. thinking who the hell is this person, i think NOT

not even. but whatever

[seabeyond]

46. wrong place. deleted

[trof]

65. So...we can all go home now?

Just in time for the spring plowin'.
;-)

[SoCalDem]

171. He didn't do it 'for his country"..he did it because he came from an over-achiever daddy

and it was expected of him..

He did most of his 'serving time' as a prisoner of war...

His major achievement is his own survival..in other words..he did what he HAD to do..to stay alive..like anyone would do.

He parlayed his POW credentials into a lifetime gig in politics..a la Duke Cunningham.. Is Mccain dirty? possibly... sometime the ones who wear their virtue on their sleeves are the dirtiest ones around...and once they crash..it all comes out...

He is LAST century...(he entered the military in the last 50's)..

he's all about war.. we need some peace..

[L0oniX]

5. I can't see anyone who is under 40 voting for that geriatric geezer.

...and there is nothing heroic about being a prisoner. A lot of Vietnam vets participated in mass murder in what they still call free fire zones. I personally know some vets who have told me about this and most vets will not talk about this.

[Tesha]

173. Then you don't see very well. In NH, McCain had flocks of "campaign kids". (NT)

[JackBeck]

6. You forget that conservatives

believe that he's a traitor, spilling American secrets during his stay at the Hanoi Hilton.

Personally, I'm not worried at all.

[Me.]

7. Unless Dems Make This A Self Fulfilling Prophecy

and defeat themselves with we can't win, there is no way McCain can win, most Cons can't even stand him

[Bake]

8. Kucinich couldn't even get 2% of DEMOCRATS to support him.

What makes you think he could win a national election?

Bake

[JerseygirlCT]

122. He couldn't. nt

[Richardo]

9. C'mon: War Hero and POW vs 'Department of Peace'?

Kucinich would have been slaughtered, using the very same documentation you just described.

I actually think that his war record does not have that much value, in fact it emphasizes the 'look back' vs 'look forward' that Obama is campaigning on.

[thoughtanarchist]

10. That is an interesting signature...

What does it mean?

"If we just BELIEVE in HOPE and CHANGE, there is no way we can LOSE!"

Why did you choose that particular phrase?

[Lex]

14. Sounds so sincere, eh?

Nice catch.

[thoughtanarchist]

25. Yup. A very specific kind of sincerity.

The kind that spends time fretting over patriotic lapel pins or where one's hand is positioned while the National Anthem is played...


:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

107. No kidding. I dion't need a button to ignore this one. nt

[Hekate]

167. So sincere, and so many are sucked into responding....

Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Hekate

edited for accuracy

[Lex]

11. Bob Dole lost so will McCain.

nt

[caledesi]

178. I agree! NT

[MiniMe]

12. 4 more years of Bush

Want more Bush? Vote McCain.

[bdamomma]

79. or if you want to be included in pre emptive wars

vote for mc cain, kiss your a$$ goodbye.

[FVZA_Colonel]

170. We really need to start a campaign of just putting up thousands upon thousands of

copies of that picture of him hugging Bush across America in just random places: telephone poles, sides of garbage dumpsters, just saturate the air with the truth about who he is.

[Indenturedebtor]

13. Fortunately

McCain embraces the policies of GWB, is the most boring speaker since 1st grade math class, has been show to be "flipflopping" all over the place, is embroiled in scandals, and doesn't yet have the support of the Republican base. Oh and he's already said that he doesn't understand the economy hah.

I don't think he has a snowballs' chance in hell.

[Zorra]

15. Edwards could have beat him in a landslide. People are sick of republicans

ruining this country.

[L0oniX]

21. Indeed ...republican = crime

[Hugabear]

39. republican = racism

And if Obama is the Democratic nominee, we'll see a racist side of the GOP that we haven't seen in years, not since the Willie Horton ads against Dukakis.

[idovoodoo]

52. That's right, Edwards could, Gore could...Obama can't.

Sorry, folks - don't shoot the messenger.

[spanone]

16. wrong wrong wrong...

[mmonk]

17. I do.

[paparush]

18. If Dems keep turning out 2:1 over Repubs...we might stand a slim chance of defeating

the Neocon Election Stealing Machine (tm)

[tridim]

19. So should we just give up now?

Honestly I think McCain is an extremely weak candidate. Even weaker than Dole.

I think you're underestimating Bush fatigue. McCain comes across as an old coot riding the coattails of the worst president in American history. He's a freaking joke.

Our candidate will win in a landslide.

[Angry Mollusk]

20. If Mccain gets in, we can look forward to WW3

I'm voting for Obama- but think if McCain plays up the fear card- and if he panders to the gay bashing Jesus freaks on the radical right, he might win over all the Republicans- I could see the race as very tight. I hope Obama wins, but I would not be surprised if the Republicans win...
If a 'terrorist attack' occurs before the elections, I'm sure the Republicans could exploit that to their advantage..
Perhaps the Mayan calaner that predicts the end of the world as ebing in 2012 might be true- Because Mccain , if elected, would start WW3....

[Ellipsis]

22. Anagram.

[lligrd]

30. LOL Good Catch. nt

[thoughtanarchist]

37. Well done.

This year I would be worried if the rallies I attended had more porta-johns than participants...

:patriot: :hurts: :hurts: :hurts: :hurts: :patriot: :hurts: :hurts: :hurts: :patriot:


Sad sad year for conservatives.

...poor things.

:cry:

[CJCRANE]

40. Thanks for the tip off n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

45. Interesting Thanks N/T

[seabeyond]

50. huh?

private message me

[seabeyond]

59. got it. thanks everyone. funny funny n/t

[Occulus]

67. See my sig line for other examples. n/t

[tekisui]

55. Interesting.

[peekaloo]

62. tee hee

:thumbsup:

[Prefer]

66. I don't appreciate your insinuation

and therefore I'll have to debunk it by pointing out that there are not enough "e"s for what you are suggesting, unless you meant to insinuate that I am a "freper".

Fact of the matter is, the McCain bio aired last night on MSNBC after Dan Abrams big pow on the Siegelman story. Do you wish to dispute that fact? Or was that part of a conspiracy that MSNBC was involved in to support my post this morning?

[tekisui]

69. The spelling "freepr" would work, though.

[Prefer]

70. And where has it been spelled like that?

Surely there must be many instances of this available online for you to link to and demonstrate support for your theory. So lets see them.

[tekisui]

74. Honestly, I think your post speaks for itself.

Why do you want to give McDubya so much credit and respect?

[Prefer]

98. Who gives him credit and respect?

I detailed my prediction of what the propaganda will be based on what I saw last night.

[tekisui]

102. You changed it a little.

You had War Hero vs. Crypto-muslim in the OP, that's gone.

It's too flattering of McShame for my taste. The pics, the suggestion that he will win. I don't think that at all.

[Prefer]

108. uh... that's in post 53

Any other mysteries you want to reveal for us, Sherlock?

[datasuspect]

113. most freepers are poor spellers

so maybe it isn't too far off the mark

[TwilightGardener]

76. Damn, you're right. The OP's sig line is a little, um...suspect, too.

[Mrs. Overall]

Yes, I wish Prefer would explain that sig line with the "egg twins".

[suffragette]

87. I'd like to see the explanation of that sig line as well.

[Prefer]

106. Explanation of the sig line

The sig line in fact WAS meant to be disingenuous.

At the time I made it, it was just after Edwards had been eliminated, and unfairly so by the media, as many of us thought.

At that time I saw the Obama message as a bunch of vague slogans, and I wanted to contrast the keywords BELIEVE, HOPE, and CHANGE with the word LOSE. But then after that time, I drank the Obama kool-aid, because I thought I am sick of hearing people shit on the name Clinton, and I didn't want to hear it for 8 more years. Another comical representation of mine was the Obamaburger.

I think Obama would be great because he doesn't have the baggage, but I am still not sure that what we are engaged in is real. My conspiratorial mind still thinks there is a chance that the media is steering all of this and that some architect had a plan somewhere to push us into the Obama camp because they thought he was beatable.

So after seeing the McCain bio vs the Obama bio, I think I may be back to the theory that we've been had.

The username Prefer is Preferences shortened. When I made my screen name, several choices were already taken, so I grabbed a word handy on the screen and shortened it, thinking no one would have that name already.

Edit: The Egg Twins are from the cartoon Oswald. I just think they are cute and cool. As Leo or Egbert would say, "Indeed!"

[suffragette]

111. Hmm, kool-aid and burger, eh?

You do seem to Prefer disingenuousness to sincerity.

[Prefer]

116. To place the setting

there was a big thread or two around that time by someone named "clericjohnparson", or something like that, also speculating that we had been had.

Currenty I support Obama over Hillary and I think he would make a great leader, but I am a little wary of getting burned again by a media conspiracy after getting burned all those times on Gore, Kerry, Kucinich and then Edwards... I am afraid it will happen again.

Part of me says if we really wanted to win, we would have picked someone who would sell to the red states, but I feel like we have the opposite of that. And why is now the time to go for a major progressive win? I thought we should just try to win the race and make the small incremental changes that will allow democracy to proceed unfettered by corruption. Seems like instead we're going with a Hail Mary pass from our own 20 yard line.

[suffragette]

119. You seem to think support means something other than

what it does.

You did get me to google Obamaburger.

Saw your thread from DU http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4378914

Hard to believe you support Obama after that nastiness.

And very interesting that the other main hits in google for that term come from freeperville from last year.

[Prefer]

123. Now a question for you - why are you lying?

Did you think that no one would fact check your statement?

"And very interesting that the other main hits in google for that term come from freeperville from last year. "

This is simply not true. From Google, I counted only 2 results from freeperville and *5* others. Is there something about the 5 others that make them not "main" hits, or are they only "main" if they support your attack against me?

[suffragette]

132. Lying?

Quite a strong accusation.

I used "main" because of repetition of hits.
Besides your 2 posts on DU, which were the 1st two hits, the only repeats I saw was from freepland with, as you noted, 2 hits. There were, as you note, 5 other hits, all from different sites. The repetition made them main to me. Not lying, just perspective.

Attack is also a very strong word. I think my tone has been quite civil throughout our exchange.

[thoughtanarchist]

114. You "drank the Obama kool-aid" then, did you?

Are you aware what that phrase means?

I have never heard a supporter describe their decision to back their candidate in such... um, colorful terms.
Why do you describe your support in that way?

Which egg do you think is the "coolest"?
The one in the French beret or the one in the mid-eastern fez?

By the way, you sure got the attention you seemed to be yearning for.
Maybe a little more than you bargained for.

So now comes the inevitable "concern" post that you think the repug will take the general election because the candidate you "drank the kool-aid" for does not stack up in your eyes?

Fascinating.

:popcorn:

[Prefer]

118. Actually it has been discussed

that the Obama campaign was the first to use the kool-aid allusion. Were you unaware of that?

As far as Egbert and Leo's hats... They are just hats. I didn't draw them, the creators of Oswald did. That is the only graphic of them that I could find on line. If you can find me another I'll be happy to change it. And by the way, Egbert and Leo are quite British if you have ever heard them. Why don't you watch Oswald and see for yourself.

Oh wait - now you are going to say that I assassinated JFK because I referred to something from the "Oswald" show, right?

Fascinating.
:popcorn:

[thoughtanarchist]

127. Yes. I was unaware. How about posting that first quote?

I have never seen honest supporters describe themselves that way.
You describe yourself that way. As having drank "Kool-aid".

Why?

Clearly you went through a lot of trouble to get the image on your sig. What URL did it come from?

I'd like to send it to my little nephew who *loves* Oswald.
(He loves Kool-aid too, you would get along famously)

[Prefer]

142. Here is the Koolaid link

According to another DUer it was referred to as "drinking the juice"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4635310

The image of the Egg Twins is from some asian site. If you right click the image and select Properties, it will give you the URL.

It was hard to find.
Here is the root URL.
http://www.wowow.co.jp/drama_anime/oswald/images/

[thoughtanarchist]

149. You said that

"Actually it has been discussed that the Obama campaign was the first to use the kool-aid allusion."

If you read the thread you link to, you would see that your statement is untrue and you'd know what "kool-aid" actually means.

For now, we'll chalk it up to ignorance and I'll move on to more worthwhile things.

[Prefer]

150. OK lets split hairs over technical semantic meanings

to prove that
1. I am a "freper" - and I chose my screen name as an anagram of the word "Freper" or "Freepr"
2. That Egbert and Leo are really some symbolic meaning related to a Beret and a Fez.
3. That Egbert and Leo's red and blue clothes have some symbolic political meaning
4. That I edited my original post to remove some phrase that I then put in Post 54 - just to confuse everyone.

Christ - it's not like I said "eat the applesauce wearing Nikes".

[thoughtanarchist]

153. I'm just asking questions. Try to keep up.

When you use the phrase "Kool-aid" you describe yourself as someone that is a mindless follower.

That's fine, if that is how you are, go on and own up to it.

Is that STILL how you see yourself or did you just learn the definition of the term?

[Prefer]

154. My argument is that with Obama

it is used more in the sense of the "drink the juice" meaning - meaning becoming seduced or intoxicated with the message and thereby becoming a follower, rather than the Jonestown meaning of drinking poison. There is quite a distinction there. The Jonestown people didn't become followers of Jim Jones because they "drank the juice" - they were already followers, who were forced to drink kool-aid laced with poison. I'd say that with George Bush , it has commonly been used in the sense of being an intoxicated follower with koolaid adding the negative connotation of Jonestown adding "to your doom".

Did I drink the Obama kool-aid? Yes, certainly I have. I think I became enthralled with the idea of possibility, optimism, hope. I had the vision that change was a general enough message to appeal broadly, across boundaries. I chose Obama, even before the bio. I thin kit was after a win sometime last month. Then I saw the Bio and I saw how Obama transcended race. I understand a black man in Hawaii, a place with no black presence, searching for his identity where nobody really even knows what it means. He is perfect to transcend race and really the job is best fit for an organizer who can delegate - that is Obama.

But I had never seen the McCain media kit before. He was not even the presumptive winner until relative recently. Now I am not so sure our ideal progressive with a sophisticated evolved view is going to win against the buzz saw of people repeating ENDLESSLY "Barack Hussein Obama... He's a Muslim. Sounds like Osama." I have seen the past years and I am not convinced that my countrymen, with whose judgment I have been disappointed with for 8 years, are suddenly going to go for a progressive hero over some aging GI Joe waving the flag and running footage of Ronald Reagan. I'm suspecting that this is exactly what they wanted and with money and power they were able to tilt the pinball machine.

We're up against a powerful machine of direct subliminal brainwashing.

My wife used to like Obama, now today she says she doesn't because she had a nightmare that Obama was chasing her with a machine gun, and she was trying to hide under a comforter hoping he wouldn't notice. She said it's because she saw that picture of him on TV wearing a turbin. How sad a report is that? She saw the flaming McCain last night, and said she's going to vote for him. And she's not a Republican and would never even considered ever voting for one, as far as I have known.

She's basically just an average person who doesn't really pay attention to politics like we do. Now, I believe I can talk her out of it, but I'm thinking "damn... this is exactly the scenario I feared, when it seemed like the republicans had just given up" This is what I felt that Cleric John Preston was getting at, that we were being led like a lamb to the slaughter.

My hope is that it backfires on them and we get Obama. There was always that danger in pumping someone up - that the momentum would just carry them onward. So hopefully Obama can win. I'm over getting my hopes up too high, 2004 hurt too bad. I saw that loss coming too... Whenever the counts start changing after 5:00 PM, it's because they want to figure out the trend and start skimming the right number of votes to win.

[tekisui]

100. Egg twins are identical twins.

Red/Blue.hmm?

[bdamomma]

82. trying to stir up the pot perhaps.

[blondeatlast]

115. Heh, heh! I think you've got it! nt

[ginnyinWI]

23. we are trending toward Democratic Party rule

There is no doubt about it. When you look at voter registration, voter turnout, money raised, the way Independents trend--all of them say Democratic Party. We can thank dubya for that in part--he completely exposed the failure of the conservative ideology. He governed as a pure conservative, more pure than Ronny Reagan did. And America sees the results.


The next President will be a Democrat. Bank on it.

[bowens43]

24. Obama will easily beat McCAin, Hillary would lose.

Kucinich competitive? This is enough to make question your judgment. Kucinich never had a shot.

[VP505]

26. I am inclined to think

that McCain's very public adoration of Bu$h, a President with a 19% approval and his unwavering call for more war will negate any benefit he might otherwise get from his War Veteran status. I think there are just too many people fed up with Bu$hCo the Iraq occupation and the lousy economy to want to continue more of the same.

[Kittycat]

27. I think it's opposites day here at DU

:crazy:

[rubberducky]

28. My 9-year-old grandson called last night to tell me that McCain is a hero.

He just watched it on the history channel. He is well aware of my political activism on behalf of my beloved dems, but he seemed to think he could enlighten me that McCain is "a real ,live hero. Can`t wait to see him this week-end to inform him that just because McCain was a POW does not qualify him for hero-dom. A very brave man he is ,but does that somehow qualify him for the presidency? Not IMHO

[seabeyond]

72. what is wrong with honoring his military and teaching grandson reasons NOT a good president

not contradictive to me. i dont see the need to bash his military like bushco did in 2000 and like they did with kerry and mccleland? and still not have plenty of ammo to express why he is not good presidential material. i wouldnt have minded the republicans not wanting kerry for many reasons. but to lie about his military to attain that is beyond disgusting.

[bdamomma]

85. oh the poor kid is being brainwashed already.

[soleft]

29. Don't you think people will look at young McCain

and it will sink in that much more exactly how OLD he is?

[EFerrari]

31. You're thinking like a Democrat.

That is, you're thinking, lol.

We'll beat McCain handily. We are the majority and the Republicans don't even like him. They'll stay home.

[Prefer]

53. All that is needed is the perception of a competitive race

recall that the election process is easily corruptible in the fog of a close election. We have to be beating them 2 to 1 going in on election night or else they will pull a Siegleman on us (aka, a Gore, a Kerry, a Cleland, etc ...).

I am looking at a very crude population of voters. Look - we just killed a million people and no one even talks about it except for here.

It's going to come down to the Big Media charactures of "McCain the Flaming McGyver" vs. "Obama the Crypto Muslim". If you don't think that is going to be the case, they you give American voters too much credit.

Kucinich never even got to talk on TV, hardly. Obama and Hillary are the only ones we really got to evaluate.

[seabeyond]

64. hubby.... rich, texas, nra card carrying, business owning repug voting obama and IF

obama doesnt win primary he is voting hillary. you are just sure mccain has it wrapped.

panhandle of texas i have seen three presidential bumperstickers. 1 for ron paul, two for obama, none for mccain

not buying it

my country club, conservative lifetime republican father wants to vote for obama. doesnt like mccain

my old, arizona, republican uncle HATES mccain and probably wont vote this election. stay at home

[EFerrari]

83. I agree with that. We will beat their turnout and our election protection

network is much better than it was four years ago. Nothing to get complacent about, for sure, but at least in that respect we are four years better off.

[bdamomma]

88. you really think that the network is better than 4 yrs ago??

I just hope we really tip the scales and all of us, ALL OF US get out there and vote.

[EFerrari]

89. Yes, I do AND we need your help.

:)

[burythehatchet]

32. Thatnks for the report, I will await your next report with baited breath n/t

[mulsh]

33. We'll beat him by record numbers of Dem voters.

Not all of the new Dems are covert rethugs trying to game the system. the numbers for the dems are simply too great.
here's one of many articles you can find if you do a search.

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=FRC2008011701

[stanwyck]

128. Exactly. I think many people are clueless

about how many people are going to vote in the next election. In Maine, more Democrats voted via absentee during their primary than Republicans voted - total. Look at the primary numbers. There's the story.

[griffi94]

34. well i think you have a real point

i wouldn't go so far as to say mccain can't be beat, but i certainly don't think the democrats have the lock that some of the posters here seem to think.

mccain has the war hero credentials and that'll take him a long way with conservatives, even the ones who swear they won't vote for him, will in all probability show up and vote for him when faced with the alternative of a democratic president.

the 100 year war thing will be softened to something like "we must keep a presence in iraq until we can peacefully withdraw". i know there isn't any difference to most people here, but there is a difference to many independent voters. in any case whoever wins the presidency will be unable to just immediately start withdrawing troops. so it's my opinion that mccain will press the democratic nominee into saying something comparable. the democrat will have to say that to draw in the middle.

mccain can run on his record as a maverick, and as a deficit hawk. he was against the bush tax cuts, now he was only against them because they didn't cut spending as well, but he can still say he was against them. he is also on record as being against government waste, and that's an issue that will resonate with independents and conservative democrats.

the media gaffe last week has already helped him rally the rw to him, and i see where the media is also playing up that he was born in the canal zone and not on american soil, so he can't run for president.

mccain is going to be a formidable opponent and the democrats dismiss him as an easy knockout to their own peril.

[FSogol]

35. Did bringing up 911 nonstop help Rudy?

The more McCain the Grouch talks (hey someone photoshop that for me) the worse he will do.

The whole straight talk stuff is nonsense and the Obama/Clinton campaigns need to start discussing that.

What being part of the Keating 5 straight talk?
Was being wrong about the war straight talk?
Is violating campaign finance laws (ones that McCain help write) straight talk?
How about being in bed (literally?) with the lobbyists? Is that straight talk?

[Earth_First]

36. Surely, you jest! n/t

[Virginia Dare]

38. Well, Ron Paul talks a lot straighter than McCain..

so why didn't he win the nomination? I think America will be able to turn away when they find out that McCain has plans to stay in Iraq for 100 years.

Your concern is duly noted...:eyes:

[soundguy]

41. You Can Take This To The Bank

If Hillary wins Ohio and loses the nomination, McCain WILL be the next president. Hillary has carried the big states and her supporters have been vilified, insulted and just plain beat up by the media and the Obamatrons, and to think that we will blindly vote for Obama is just plain crazy. Remember us Ohioans had to vote for the last two prepackaged losers and more than likely will not blindly vote for a Dem. Look at what blind voting gave us in the Senate, glad to see they are so concerned about steroid use. If McCain comes to the center and distances himself from the far right, it is all but over.

As to the USS Forestal, I would look to see that front and center. In the face of sure death he did do the near impossible and it was all caught on film.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[immoderate]

42. You saw one documentary, and you think that makes him a winner?

Given that anything can happen, it's hard to see where McCain has any chance going against Obama. Even McCain's strong suit, his military heroism, doesn't go very far, he's not Alvin York or Audie Murphy.

Obama is a campaign phenomenon. He will win every encounter. That is his talent.

--IMM

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Nope.

[bdamomma]

94. oh geez, enough to make me

do this, :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[seabeyond]

47. also the fact repugs do not even like mccain, but what the hell. texas, two obama stickers

one ron paul and NO mccain. this is panhandle most conservative texas

[sepulveda]

48. um

"I don't think Edwards, my prior choice, could have beat him either. The only one I think who could have been truly competitive is Kucinich, on the basis of having "Straighter Talk" than McCain. Kucinich is so brutally truthful and honest, I think he just might have been able to pull it off."

anybody who thinks there is any way on god's green earth (tm) that kucinich could even win the nomination, let alone beat the repub candidate probably is not going to get my confidence in analyzing the relative electability of political candidates.

i mean - puhleeeeeze.

like it or not, kucinich is seen by america as a fringe candidate, even among many, if not most dems.

obama is many things, but he is obviously NOT a fringe candidate, and is metric busloads more likely to beat mccain than kucinich.

frankly, he looks GREAT against mccain.

[LanternWaste]

49. Sorry to retort - I see no way McCain could win...

Sorry to retort-- I don't see a possibility of the GOP nominee winning the general election.

For every visual shot you provide of McCain, visual shots of either Clinton or Obama full of command, respect, and authority could also be framed for context and used during the election cycle.

[OHdem10]

51. This is the lamest argumentt Dems try to make against McCain

People know and understand McCain. They know he did not mean this.
They knew it was a sarcastic or typical McCain Barb. It makes Dems
look stupid that they believe he meant it. He tells the people at
his rallies everyday. The war is going to be over soo.n. The war
is going to be over soon. We will keep some troops there as in Korea
Germany, etc. People like McCain. Based on respect he is the GOP
Obama. Picking little legaistic points do not touch him.

[Caretha]

175. If you would like to campaign

or vote for McCain, you need to find yourself another forum. This is the DemocraticUnderground forum, we do not support Republicans or campaign for them on here.

[MethuenProgressive]

54. The best way is to nominate Hillary Clinton.

But our party seems to have surrenedered the '08 election.

[tigereye]

56. how is this productive at this stage of the game?

if we get all our voters out - and Obama seems to be bringing out voters in droves - we can't lose.


Why are Dems always telling other Dems why we can't win elections ? I don't get it. :shrug:

[tekisui]

58. It is not productive at all.

I question the motivation.

[Buzz Clik]

57. Stupid thread of the day. Congrats!

[MissB]

60. Well gosh, your thread is soooo convincing that I've decided to not even bother voting.

:eyes:

[NewJeffCT]

61. I think it will be difficult to beat any Republican, but I think it can be done

They have the mainstream media on their side, and they have no shame.

look how quickly the Iseman/Lobbying story from the NY Times died, while also rallying the RW base to his side to show people how the media is on their side.

[Mrs. Overall]

63. Wow, are you a publicist for McCain's campaign--love how you've got the photos, video, story---

and look, you've posted it here on DU for all of us to see and learn! Hurray!

Please keep the information coming, freePr, err, Prefer.

[Prefer]

68. Yeah amazing how I pulled that all together

it's as if there were a searchable database of images online and I searched for "John McCain POW".... :eyes:

[Moochy]

71. Did you mean John McCain Porn?

Google wants to know if you feel lucky!

[Mrs. Overall]

73. I guess the question is why you would post all that on a Democratic board--

It reads like one long commercial for McCain.

I don't trust your intention, sorry.

[Prefer]

86. Because I originally wanted a winner

And now I have come to the conclusion that we have had a loser foisted on us. I was skeptical of the uneven media coverage the whole time.

I have had mixed feelings about Obama. While I like the messenger and his campaign, I am afraid of the hard crusted impenetrable minds of non-progressive peoples. People that supported a war that was clearly a sham.

The McCain media material was new to me, I had never seen those clips before last night. All I said was that if those clips play endlessly like the towers falling, it is going to make things tough. Especiall if the coverage of Obama turns to all being aimed at portraying Obama as a crypto Muslim. The amount of time the dedicated to discussing Farrhakan at the last debate was FAR FAR too much. It should have been 1 minute and they gave it 10! I am wary of the media.

My basic feeling is that the media pumped Obama up only to knock him down in the GE. lets be serious. The same company controlling the debate has billions and billions to gain - the last thing they are going to be is fair.

[TwilightGardener]

78. I wonder that too--I think we all know his story by now, why are the visuals necessary--

unless we're meant to be impressed, and persuaded?

[Prefer]

90. I personally had not seen the bio until last night

I don't know if it had aired previously.

I just wanted to give an idea for those who have not seen it just exactly what I was referring to. Probably not many have seen it.

I also saw the Obama bio and it was very good. But I missed the Hillary bio.

[TwilightGardener]

99. Uh huh. You know, he's been around a while, there have been other

bios run on him since 2000, plus he's written several books--only a political retard doesn't know his story, or hasn't seen some of the footage/photos by now. I think we all know he was in Vietnam and a POW, thanks.

[treestar]

104. It seems odd these photos exist

Maybe the battle one could have been by a journalist, but is it usual to have photos taken while one is being attended by a doctor?

[TwilightGardener]

105. The enemy does it for propaganda purposes, and groups like the

Red Cross also come in and document the treatment/conditions of prisoners. I am assuming it's one of those two factors behind the photos.

[Prefer]

112. according to the MSNBC bio

once they North Vietnamese figured out they had Admiral McCain's son, they milked it like "we have your guy"...

They showed this tactic happened again in Iraq war 1 with some captured US soldiers. I guess Mccain was a spokesman at that time to quell the impact.

Sorry I am a political retard, prior to the bio, I only knew about McCain what I had read here.

[bdamomma]

75. this is so ironic, so are we to see, the same people who

swiftboated Kerry sing praises to McCain cuz he was in the war, and what a big hero he is?? I wouldn't put anything past these thugs especially Rove, his fingerprints are still in this. Sickening absolutely sickening.

[seabeyond]

80. swiftboated Kerry sing praises to McCain... the real sick, ironic, they got him in 2000

they dissed mccain in 2000 already and now they praise. the reason we didnt want mccain in 2000 cause POW left him mentally crazy and couldnt run the country

[Prefer]

95. yeah - you get it...

"they dissed mccain in 2000 already and now they praise."

it's all a game of misleading. there is no truth or honor, no consistency, not even decency. it's all about power. whatever "truth of the moment" suits their agenda is what TV will be selling us.

[bdamomma]

101. yea, and he still has mental problems

oh god, grandpa stay home and give it up. Just think this is all they (the repigs) have to offer, what a sad bunch of people, that stupid RNC is trying to get the repigs to start getting money, that is how sad these repigs are. And one thing I remember is that both Cheney and * do not give a crap about the party, these thugs like Cheney and his band of thugs are trying to rewrite history.

When are the repig party going to realize that these thugs took them down too, so why not an eye for an eye......oh you know the saying.

[treestar]

77. Why are there so many of these threads?

Are you trying to get people down and depressed? Why?

BS. Those pics are so old they just highlight how old McBush is.

And just because he was a POW 40 years ago doesn't mean he should be President now.

I do not think he "suffered for me." He suffered for the military industrial complex. So did John Kerry.

The repukes have no right to benefit from McBush's military service, and they had no respect for Kerry's. Military service alone means nothing.

Obama and Hillary could not have served during a war. Obama is not old enough. Hillary would not have been expected to.

This country is sick of war. We don't need more war and more reminders of war. There is no way McBush can win, but especially based on his war experience and maybe because of it.

[Eurobabe]

81. Oh.mi.gawd. I am so depressed and weak I won't vote

Nice try though!

:eyes:

[Harry Monroe]

84. No way to beat him??

Sorry, I don't buy this for one second. If we can't defeat a old curmudgeon who wants to keep us in Iraq for 100 years, is now FOR torture when previously he was against it (he was tortured as a prisoner. WTF brought on the change of heart??) and has flip flopped on every conceivable issue, then we don't even DESERVE to win. These issues alone should be driven home time and time again and kept before the American people. We deserve to lose if we can't beat this charlatan.

[jpak]

91. There are tens of thousands of Iraq War vets that would like to get their lives back

McCain is a pro-torture Iraq/Iran war monger - he will be defeated this November.

handily

[B Calm]

92. I'm looking for another suspicious terrorist attack on American soil.

Of course the dems will be blamed for their weakness!

[malaise]

93. The Rethugs will be wiped out

Bookmark this.

[zanne]

96. Are you an inspirational speaker? nt

[lonestarnot]

97. You better do some more thinking.

[blondeatlast]

109. Were you the septuple male progeny in a previous DU knitted footwear

recrafted to entertain the kiddles? This feces sounds vaguely familiar...

[Vinca]

110. No way to beat a half senile flip flopper who keeps having

recurrences of cancer who has a history of funny business with lobbyists, involvement in the Keating affair and who wants to bomb Iran and keep us in Iraq for 100 years? Surely, you must be kidding.

[goforit]

117. Hero??? Well how many people have died by HIS VOTE for this Iraq war????

He lost his H-E-R-O status with me a long time ago.

You people need to think through a typical photo-op of McCain walking on water shit!!!

[RadiationTherapy]

120. I think he's a stud and a war hero...

I heard this on NPR today when they were interviewing young conservatives about McCain. McC f*cking this lobby lady is going to BOOST him with this crowd.

The same crowd that produced a YOUNG texan couple who both believed that a man must run the country because women must submit to men according to the bible.

I am serious. Go to NPR.org and listen to today's installment of their series on conservatives.

[backscatter712]

121. We need our own loops.

Start with endlessly repeating McCain quotes referring to Asians using a racial slur.

Mix in a generous amount of Vicki Iseman, with lots of jokes about McCain being in bed with lobbyists - the Pillow Talk Express, the Straight Boink Express, etc.

Add in lots of footage from the Keating 5 scandal.

Lather rinse repeat. If the right wing's going to use Hitler's Big Lie techniques, we counter with endless repetition of the Big Truths.

[JerseygirlCT]

124. That and positive loops about our nominee

We need to sell their story, to put it bluntly. In a way that the public will be willing to swallow along with their breakfast cereal. Pictures, symbols, the potent stuff that doesn't take a whole lot of mental weightlifting and tends to stick in the brain.

[backscatter712]

130. I think Obama has it covered.

His speeches, slogans like Yes, We Can! and Got Hope?, and his black belt in verbal jiu-jitsu shows he's got the gift for doing exactly this.

[JerseygirlCT]

135. I know. I love watching it. But I want to be sure the entire

Dem party is in for this. We cannot leave him out there alone!

[Prefer]

125. Now [u]this[/u] is a good response.

thanks backscatter712, you have the right attitude.

[Warren DeMontague]

126. Thank you for your concern.

Your concern has been noted.

[stanwyck]

129. Two words. Bob Dole

another war hero. Another guy who lost. War hero does not automatically equal president.

[JDPriestly]

131. So, John McCain was a hero and all I have to show for it is

a Communist Viet Nam and a lot of inflation.

The link between these frivolous wars and the destruction of the America economy and all that Americans work long and hard for is just so obvious. I was talking to a woman yesterday who pointed out that in the 1950s, families lived comfortably on one income. Today, they struggle on two incomes. Sure, we have more technological junk, but our food, our schools, our communities are not as healthy and beneficial for our lives. Americans pretty much agree on that.

McCain's heroism did not make a single American safer or healthier, did not improve the life of a single American. It also didn't help any of the Vietnamese. So was it really heroism. Ghandi was a hero. George Washington was a hero. We don't usually look upon soldiers who fight in lost wars for nothing as equal to the heroes who fight for noble causes. McCain was a good soldier. He is still a good soldier -- now for the GOP. He was not a hero because he did not fight for a heroic cause.

[JDPriestly]

133. A Wesley Clark vice presidential candidacy would defeat McCain any day.

McCain weasels around. It is just annoying. Obama/Hillary both would need Clark as the vice president to balance their lack of military experience and knowledge. This is especially true of Obama.

[fascisthunter]

134. surrrrrrrrrrrrrre

[electron_blue]

136. I saw part of that show last night and agree it was amazing.

One thing that really shocked me was how much video footage their was of his whole ordeal. Especially the pictures at the beginning - before they knew he was the son of someone special. How bizarre is that? Yes, McCain is a war-hero, but the bio also pointed out how old he is. So he has good "war points". People are so sick of war right now that even Republicans are leaving the party just to get out of Iraq. I think McCain would have been far stronger in a 2000 or 2004 run (had GWB been out of the picture) before the Iraq War disaster started.

There are bio's of the other presidential candidates as well.I presume they are equally illuminating.

[Ikonoklast]

138. Sorry to report, you're dead wrong

But, assclowns love war heroes, even when they're lying hateful idiots, and McCain will get their vote.

Right?

[Auntie Bush]

139. I already saw it twice and they'll replay it over and over right up

to the election. They did the same thing when W Bush was running. Kept showing his father's heroics...hoping some would rub off on Jr. I guess it did because he "won".

[DFW]

140. I see a way to beat John McCain

Run an on-message, take-no-shit-from-swiftboaters, coherent campaign,
and use the photo of McCain embracing Bush everywhere, every day, and
just ask "had enough?" Then aggressively attack any and all voter fraud
at the first sign of it anywhere.

If that doesn't do it, then we're living in the wrong country.

[librechik]

141. Custer was a hell of a soldier, too, as i recall

and MacArthur--but they both got taken down.

[Disturbed]

143. Twenty five years ago McCain was a different person.

He seemed to have integrity & honor. He became a corrupt politician. Now he is a hypocrite & a fraud.

“Hypocrisy, my friends, is the most obvious of political sins — and the people will punish it,” John McCain



John McCain Hypocrite
by Doug Ireland

John McCain, the media's darling, has found a clever way around his own campaign finance reform law to take big corporate bucks in furtherance of his political ambitions while carrying water for the corporate mammoth providing the dough. But the national press is ignoring the story.


The Associated Press first ran the story of John McCain's odorous but lucrative Senatorial service to the communications giant Cablevision on the afternoon of March 7. But, while some local papers in McCain's home state (like the East Valley Tribune) have run the story, nothing has as yet made it into the print editions of the New York Times, the L.A. Times, the Washington Post, or any of the half-dozen other big city dailies I checked (although, if one searches the hundreds of AP stories available on the Post's website on its Politics page by clicking on "Latest Wire Reports," one can find it there--but how many readers would bother to do that?) One notable exception: the Kansas City Star.


Here's what the AP's investigation found:


McCain repeatedly intervened on behalf of a policy Cablevision favored -- one which "congressional and private studies conclude could make cable more expensive" -- while his chief political adviser, Rick Davis (who's masterminding McCain's probable '08 presidential rerun) solicited $200,000 in contributions from Cablevision to an institute that promotes McCain and pays Davis a $110,000 annual salary.


The Reform Institute was set up to promote McCain and his issues--especially campaign finance reform, embodied in the famous McCain-Feingold law. This Institute is "a tax-exempt group that touts McCain's views and has showcased him at events since his unsuccessful 2000 presidential campaign," and it "often uses the senator's name in press releases and fund-raising letters and includes him at press conferences," the AP says. And, of course, it provides a cushy sinecure with no heavy lifting for McCain's main man, Davis, as he prepares the pontificating Senator's next presidential run. Cablevision's contributions account for a whopping 15% of the Institute's budget.


http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0309-35.htm

[SoonerPride]

144. McCain is a weak old man.

He won't put up much of a fight.

He already scolded aids who try to hit below the belt and he won't condone swiftboating Obama.

He'll go down with a whimper.

Obama will win 45 of the 50 states.

The tidal wave of change is coming.

[Bluebear]

145. McCain? With his hair-trigger temper & a finger on the nuke button?

No way.

[sampsonblk]

146. He lost to a draft-dodger in 2000. McCain has very little chance in this race.

Veterans deserted him back in 2000, despite his bio.

[Lasher]

176. That's the first thought that came to my mind.

If he couldn't even beat Junior for the Repub nomination in 2000, what's happened to make him more viable? Certainly not the results of the last 7 years.

[RoadRage]

147. Ohh.. there is a way. He has many more months to say things like:

"I hate the gooks".. and "George Bush deserves more credit"...

Things like that will slowly chip away at whatever advantage it seems that he has...

I don't see how a guy wins a general election, when the combined total of Clinton & Obama's primary votes are double his, Huck's and Romeny's combined.

[NoPasaran]

148. Can we at least finish the Hillary-Obama War

Before the McCainiacs crawl out of the sewers?

[Jack Rabbit]

151. There is a way to defeat John McCain

Run against him. This year, that is all it will take for a Democrat to beat the stuffing out of any Republican.

[earth mom]

152. IMO, McCain is a DONE deal. We could've won with Edwards, but the media gave him the finger.

Edwards was hanging on but was finally pushed out by either Ted Kennedy or Bill Clinton. :grr:

[bronxiteforever]

155. According to your logic, Bob Dole should have been President. Vietnam was 40 years ago-Iraq is NOW

[Prefer]

158. That is a good point

Dole turned out to be a stiff herring behind the microphone...

But I am not sure McCain is that creepy. He is like a little Paul Simon kind of guy. But if his baggy face hangs any looser, it could creep people out...

[walldude]

156. ROFL!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


But... but...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh nevermind...

[Midlodemocrat]

157. Gee. Thanks for your concern.

:eyes:

[Generic Brad]

159. Here's how you beat McCain

Vote Obama.

Your fear is unwarranted. Great Grandpa McCain is going to get his ass handed to him in the general election.

[lectrobyte]

160. Manchurian! All we need is a deck of cards! Red queen! Red queen!

[roamer65]

161. There is a very simple way to beat him.

The DNC simply needs to run ads showing pictures of McCain sucking up to Dimwit. Play them over and over and over again on TV. The audio in the background would state how they have the same policies on Iraq, then ask if we need 4 more years of it.

McCain will be toast if the DNC does this.

[alfredo]

162. I like your fighting spirit, just what we need to win.

[IsItJustMe]

164. Your too negative for me dude. Go with the flow or get the hell out of the way.

[eridani]

165. Sounds sort of like John Kerry, no? n/t

[Hekate]

166. Thank you for your Concern. Are you entirely sure you are in the right place?

:shrug:

Hekate

[poppysgal]

168. Pollyanna here

:grouphug: no way we can lose.

[FVZA_Colonel]

169. Look, I have worries too, and I'm certain a lot of people here do.

But to say it's impossible is simply a stretch. It won't be a cakewalk, but I truly believe it can be done.

[casus belli]

172. My friends, I assure you being tortured did not permanently damage my psyche, my friends. n/t

[Caretha]

177. What game are you playing?

2 days ago, February 26th you posted this in GD-Primaries forum - OBAMA will win Presidency as part of a rehab campaign for America

here's the url, incase you forgot ;)- www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4775234

[rolleitreks]

179. I don't see how we can lose. n/t