On being homeless

[canetoad]

The thread about Google giving voicemail to homeless people has stirred up many issues that cannot and should not be dealt with adequately in that thread. In the forefront is the propensity to depersonalise people with no permanent shelter as 'they'. THEY should be grateful for what THEY get, and so on.

In 1994, at the age of 40, I found myself homeless. I'd worked as a chef for many years, having been head chef in large establishments. As the body aged and long hours and hard physical activity took its toll, 40 seemed a good age to move out of the hands-on side of the profession into planning and management. Unfortunately the job I settled on for my transition was for a man who was operating beyond his means.

In short, he didn't pay me. There was always an excuse, a 'please do not quit, the money will be available next week.' I stuck it out as long as I could, but logic took over and I accepted that I was not going to get any back wages from this man. And yes, myself and others launched a successful class action against him. You cannot get blood from a stone.

Either way, I could not keep up my housing committments and found myself and two dogs on the street. I was lucky, I had a weirdo, musician friend who let me sleep on a mattress on his porch for close on 60% of his monthly rent. I went from being a respected professional to a homeless person in a few weeks, but at least I had an address.

You might well ask yourselves what the point of this story may be. A month without income very well may be the difference between a stable life and one of homelessness. Do not ever, ever again let me hear a DUer speak of homeless folk as though they are a seperate breed of inferior organisms.

[Zorra]

1. I've had several friends with somewhat similar stories.

I always keep a small motorhome....just in case.

[uppityperson]

2. Been there too. However, I cannot refer to each homeless person by name,

so I do say "they". I also say "they" when referring to my friends, to a group voting together, to any sort of group. I am well aware of each person in the world being part of many different groups, and each member of any group being an individual, but use "they" to represent a group. If that makes sense.

Edited to add, am also a professional who found self without a residence for a time and it really really sucked. Thank you friends for helping, but it still was really really difficult.

[canetoad]

6. Sometimes 'they' is just a word for a group of people

other times it manages to convey dripping contempt and disapproval. I know where you are coming from. Peace :)

[mike_c]

3. planning for homelessness....

I've said many times that I expect to be homeless when I retire, and although friends often take that as hyperbole, I'm not so sure. As you say, most of us are not that far away from homelessness already. A paycheck or two, maybe a couple of extra months drawing out the inevitable and making the landlord evict us. The point is that I'm PLANNING to be homeless to try to ease the transition as much as possible. Frankly, I'm MUCH more worried about my cats than I am about myself, and my worst fear is that as the time draws near I'll have to let attrition take its toll on my cat family so that I won't have any furry friends left to be responsible for when I have to hit the highway. That will be really hard for me.

[canetoad]

7. If I outlive the dogs

i'm seriously considering an old age in a correctional facility.
I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!! :)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Posts like these just tear me apart :(

It's not fair and it isn't right. In Europe, where sprawl is not so common, and where there are social laws to protect the people, people usually live near family and in general have closer relationships with their family. Close enough, in fact, that they are usually taken in if something horrible happens, like homelessness.

It breaks my heart, I swear it does, when I see the culture and laws in this country destroy people this way. Why does it have to be that way?

[canetoad]

9. Sarah, this didn't happen in USA

but Australia, where there are laws in place, procedures, departments. The guy just didn't pay me - and a lot of young casual staff. I felt bad for them as they were much more vulnerable to exploitation than I should have been.

As I said, I got half dozen of them together, we launched a class action funded by the state government, under the employment act, and we won all our back wages. I rang the department for advice on how to go about enforcing the order, the woman I spoke with gave me the bitter truth.

As she put it, having won a judgement is one thing, getting your back pay is another. Sure, there are process you could put in place to recover the money, such as having a sherrif catch him with assets, garnishee them (whatever the terminology is). I asked her what was the likelihood of ever getting paid - remember, by now it is a year or 18 months later. I have a new job, somewhere to live - things are not so urgent.

Her answer was 'Sure, chase him but you will be throwing good money after bad.' And she was right. When your dealing with someone who has put all assets in son and wifes name, and is crying poor, how much of your new found security are you going to throw in vengeance and reparation for things past?

I decided to let it go and be glad that this bastard, fucker, dishonest arsehole was no longer in my sphere of life.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. How on earth? Are you doing okay now??? nt

[canetoad]

20. Bless you for asking

Better than OK. Circumstances just gelled, I had a fine art degree, so spent two or three years finding out that you really could not make a living as an artist! Computers were becoming commonplace, I had an affinity with technology. A friends husband was looking for someone to fill a job that no one could write a description for - managing a co-operative of architects.

14 years on, I am the graphic designer and business manager of a sustainable design/architecture company. Still don't make a heap of money but fucking hell! I enjoy what i do.

[The Straight Story]

24. Glad to hear that my friend

Keep up the good work and posts.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. Wow that sounds awesome! I'm so glad for you. What an odyssey you

lived through!

Whatever you do tho, just don't ever forget to help the helpless.... some continue to suffer. :cry:

[The Straight Story]

5. Kick for a great post

Thanks for sharing those insights my friend.

[canetoad]

11. Thank you

for years you have been making me laugh till the tears run down my legs.

Much appreciated.

[The Straight Story]

13. You're not supposed to laugh at my plight and rants

:rofl:

[canetoad]

37. I'm not laughing with you

I'm laughing at you :evilgrin:

[DaveJ]

8. In a way, I'm still homeless

I was on the streets for 8 months when I was in mid twenties. I got by for awhile on unemployment, then swept parking lots, and panhandled. Without a phone it is almost impossible to expect to get a job. The shelters hardly helped. They had no professionals trained to help me get a job. The people (running the one was in for a few days) were greedy homeless, going through the donation boxes and taking all the good stuff for themselves.

I arrived back late one night and was kicked out. I was driving another homeless friend to look for a place and my car broke down on the way back. But they didn't care. That's why I don't donate to this particular 'charity' now.

Google is doing the right thing by providing this voicemail service. Come to think of it, I was homeless in the S.F. Bay Area. In the process I moved back to the midwest to finish college. But, wow.... that just occurred to me... that service would have changed my life.

Anyway, I swore then that I would always consider myself homeless. That I'd never turn my back on 'them'. Now, I'm paying rent, but I still think of myself as homeless, not just because of the promise I made to myself, but the reality that one misstep or catastrophe could easily put me right back into the same situation. My wife and I only have about a month saved up.

[canetoad]

15. You have made me look at it from another viewpoint

To me, to feel secure in applying for a job, the most important thing is to have an address. A niche, a permanent place I can retreat to. I know things have changed a lot in the past decade and to people younger than me, having phone access is much more important.

[DaveJ]

26. Well, a home is the most important thing

My friends and I bemoaned the fact that there were plenty of places offering food, but noplace offering a stable roof over our heads. That's still the number one problem. The U.S. has this notion that a home only gives degenerates an opportunity to do their evil deeds, whatever they are, as if everyone who has a home is pure and holy. That's totally false. A lot of the weathiest people are the biggest perverts.

The top priority of this society should be to assure everyone has shelter. That's as much a basic need as food and medicine.

But, the housing bubble is evidence that people are less interested in nesting anymore. Kids feel comfortable being mobile. Here in Chicago, kids leave their parents' homes first chance they get, and go wherever. This may sound weird, but it's like one big happy family here in the city. They go wherever makes them happy.

But when I was in my 20's I felt the need to be independent. The only ones who offered any type of shelter wanted to take advantage of me in some way, and I shouldn't go into details about that. The whole environment was very disorienting, with constant uncertainty, noise from traffic, unpredictable weather, etc. It's no wonder that one is unable to make a connection with some untrained social worker in their air conditioned office. I'm sure I came off as a lunatic to them, but that was only because they were stupid and untrained.

[bobbolink]

59. "A lot of the weathiest people are the biggest perverts." That should be on a huge billboard as

the "welcome" message to the wealthy, perverted town I'm in!!!

These "upscale" yuppies, who are only concerned about "image", and have NO inner integrity make me ill.

You have nailed it!

[knitter4democracy]

62. Shelters aren't the answer at all. We need housing. You're right.

I had the opportunity once to work and eat in a homeless shelter (church youth group thing). The food was awful (what there was of it), the place nowhere near clean enough, and the shelter consisted of bunk beds (but there were only 60). Guys would start lining up around noon just to get a bed for the night, but those with jobs couldn't do anything but get in line and hope they'd have a bed (which often didn't happen).

What's worse--the guys told us it was the best shelter in town. That's when I realized that what we really need is housing--not shelter.

[bobbolink]

66. I wish more people would listen to you!

So many are stuck on "shelter", and simply don't understand what it is.

Thank you for continuuing to try to get understanding on this!

:hug:

[bobbolink]

21. Are you sure it would have "changed your life?"

How would you have returned those calls?

Did you have lots of money?

Did you have transportation money to find the rare payphones?

Were you able to stay at a payphone until the call you placed was returned?

It isn't what it appears on the surface, so don't be so sure.

A HOME is what helps to get and keep a job.

[DaveJ]

29. Yeah, but I can't speak for others

I really wanted a job. But there was no way. So I moved back to the midwest to finish college because there was nothing for me anymore in the S.F. Bay area. If I had voicemail service there, I would have stayed. I think I would have found a job eventually, and I'd be warm and tanned instead of freezing my balls off in Chicago.

I'm not saying I'd be better off, maybe things would have been worse and I'd have never bothered going back to college and getting three degrees.

But, it would have made things different for me, for sure.

[bobbolink]

56. I don't think you were actually reading my questions to you.

I think you have in mind that just a voicemail, any voicemail, would have made it easier for you to find a job.

I don't think you're thinking about how it would actually work, in reality, and paying lots of money playing phonetag, without actually ever talking to a real, live person, and setting up an interview.

There's a big difference.

I'm glad you also recognize that for many, it's not going to matter.

[DaveJ]

75. I have to disagree on your 'reality' assertion

Simply put, you said with voicemail I may have been incapable of "actually ever talking to a real, live person, and setting up an interview." I respectfully remind you that this is totally incorrect.

Here is how it will work:

1) The job seeker gives employers a number Google provides through a website ad or however. (Libraries have free internet)
2) An employer eventually calls and leaves a message.
3) Then the homeless person calls from a pay phone or someone else's cell phone.

What is the problem with that?

I'm conceding to the fact that some homeless may have better routes to take than getting a job. But if someone wants a job, a free voicemail service definitely would help.

Edit: also, there is no reason why a homeless person can't do well at an interview. When I was homeless I had trouble getting help because I did not look homeless. I was clean and wore decent clothes.

[Two Americas]

41. in a way, we all are

Homelessness is not merely one issue among many. It is all of the issues, in combination and focused and brought to bear on frail and isolated individuals.

It is unemployment, it is hunger. It is the breakdown of families and communities. It is the toxic environment, it is a cruel and brutal system based on greed and selfishness. It is suffering and hardship, it is fear and pain. It is the lack of access to health care. It is unequal justice and the abrogation of human rights. It is a chronic and accepted by-product of war. It is loneliness and isolation, it is the absence of love. This can all be seen with great clarity when we look at homelessness - if only we will look.

Homelessness is where we are able to see all of the issues that matter to us, and failing to take a strong stance on this we fail to take a strong stance on any of our issues. Homelessness is where we are able to see ourselves as we truly are - if we have the courage to do that.

When Bobbolink and canetoad and other courageous and often lonely souls speak of their homelessness, they are speaking for all of us - if only we will listen.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

52. Having compassion for others who, like you, are homeless

is the key, I think. We are all homeless in that we don't live in a society where everyone is looked after, as would happen in a home of a large family. This is really what we are, you know. And there is enough space and enough food to go around. I am glad that voice mail is being made available. I've always thought that one reason for some homelessness (certainly not all; there are too many variables to have a single approach to the problem)was the lack of single room occupancy places. These used to be all over--in old houses converted to such, in the upper stories of downtown buildings. This was how many lived in the 50s, and the rents were affordable. But now there is such fear abounding that converting places to this sort of living arrangement is difficult if not impossible.

[mntleo2]

54. Me Too Djohnson!

...once you have been there, you are never quite the same. And I may add in a good way as well as the paranoia and everything else that goes with it.

You can never judge people the same way again,

The nicest people are often the worse SOBs to street people ~ and also the most surly person can be the kindest

You realize that no matter how hard you work , what rules you follow, and where you are, it does not matter, you could lose it all

You realize the homeless person you pass is probably in the same boat you were

You are grateful for everything you have

Every time you lay down in your own bed you send up a little prayer of thanks

When the weather is crappy and cold outside, you wonder how many people are huddling in a doorway that you wish weren't

On a sunny day you are extra happy because you remember how nice it was not to be cold

When you see someone else being nice to a homeless person your opinion of them goes up 100%

A shower becomes a "happening" since your old car or the doorway did not have one

Privacy is nothing to take for granted, to have a door to close so you can sleep, poop, eat, scratch your privies or whatever is wonderful

You are glad you survived the experience and life is just sweeter sometimes because you did

Oh I could go on! Have any to add?

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[bobbolink]

65. "You realize the homeless person you pass is probably in the same boat you were "

Exactly!!

YET... and here is the basic crunch... why have we become so lacking in basic empathy, that "it takes one to know one"????

WHY is there so much poverty of compassion that we can't see and understand pain, even though we've not been in those shoes??? Are we that low?

In the Depression, those who had some DIDN'T have to be totally without in order to empathize, have compassion and REACH OUT.

What the hell has happened to us?

:cry:

[Mythsaje]

10. This reminded me of something that happened today.

I was planning on posting it, but had forgotten. Thanks for the reminder.

[The Straight Story]

16. You better post it now :)

Don't leave me all hanging here wondering what it is....

keep up the good work, love your threads - even if I don't always reply.

[canetoad]

36. I thought this thread was about me, not you. nt

[blues90]

12. I guess alot of us should prepare ahead of time

I know I will have to . I am running out of hope here and I don't have family other than my wife and 4 cats . I can't have them on the street .

I thought of selling my car just to get an old used motor home just to have a roof .

I see many homeless and everytime it rains of gets cold I can't get them out of my mind having to live like this . I've seen shelters and they are not much better than the streets other than a roof .

I've given out tarps to some when it nears winter and it does not get near freezing here but 45 is cold out there at night .

I don't know what the solution would be , no one seems to give a damn until they face this . I care but I can't do much at all .

Everyone has feelings and a right to live with at least the basics yet some people have far more than they need .

No one chooses to be born or has control over their situation especially these days , it's worse than ever before .

I see jobs vanish so fast and wonder everyday , nothing is secure .

[bobbolink]

19. "I've seen shelters and they are not much better than the streets other than a roof . "

You are so right, and sometimes much worse!

Have you seen any of knitter4democracy's threads on shelters? It's obscene!

The conditions in some are deplorable, and just NOT what people think they are. Unsafe, and dangerous in terms of health. Did you know that the rate of TB (treatment resistant kind!) in shelters is FOURTEEN times that of the general population? It's an epidemic. A nurse recently told me the treatment resistant staff infection is also rampant in shelters, but being kept quiet.

HORRIBLE!! Yet, I'll probably be flamed for saying that, too. "BUt it's better than nothing...." :puke:

"I care but I can't do much at all."

Actually, there's a lot you can do. Keep the topic in front of everyone you know.. a big part of the problem is it's just not talked about.. it's not "sexy", so it isn't part of our national or party discussion.

Keep pestering your reps to get behind programs for low-income (not affordable -- that's middleclass!) housing. If you could get lots of people to speak up for that, much of this would cease to be a problem.

then we wouldn't be having discussions about voicemail for homeless people!!

:thumbsup:

[Warpy]

32. If it's not the diseases, it's the violent crazy people

and the thieves you wake up to find walking off with your stuff. Then there are the occasional screams from you don't know where that wake you up and you really don't want to know what happened.

Anybody who suggests shelters really doesn't know what the hell s/he is talking about.

Nothing can be preferable, indeed.

[rosesaylavee]

17. Been there.

Fortunately, we had family to help until we finished the 'transition'. Scary but enlightening how fast it can happen.

[The Straight Story]

18. Yes indeed my friend

If not for family right now, I would be homeless. I used to have a good job and my own house, wife got sick (and other things) and it all went to hell.

But for the grace of god as the old saying goes.

[rosesaylavee]

22. In our case, not sure it could have been prevented.

Sure hindsight points to a few events to have avoided... It has made me quite mindful of how quickly life changes and to appreciate the small stuff. Also makes me fairly sensitive to the growing number of people flying without the safety net of family or weird musician friends... when I can, I do what I can.

[juno jones]

23. From a Baker to a Chef, Solidarity.

I have worked two 30 hr a week jobs at the same time and still been homeless. Thank Gods for friends with Airstream trailers.


You are right. I cannot remeber the exact figures but a majority of the homeless are either working or only temporarily between jobs. Not quite the hard core types that have 'chosen' that life as many would like to think. Perhaps they think that by denying it, the same will never happen to them. Most of us a check or two from a similar fate.

Good luck on finding something that is not as taxing on the body or hard on the soul. Hope the puppies are faring well too. :D

[bobbolink]

25. "Perhaps they think that by denying it, the same will never happen to them."

You got it--that's the psychological process.

"Thinking people are homeless by choice may make you sleep easier at night, but bears no relationship to the truth."
Mitch Snyder, homeless activist

[canetoad]

31. Thank you

Those pups grew old and died, I have the 'Terrorists' now. (JR Xs)they will be 4 on April fools day and are still The Destructo Twins.

'Hard core', 'chosen' the life. Yes, those sentiments stood out it that thread about voicemail. They were delivered with a surety that the poster had never experienced the situation themself. That will start me on a whole new tangent about theory vs. experience...lol

[progressive_realist]

27. I was homeless in the S.F. Bay area for a time

And while I was financially well-off enough to afford a private mailbox and a prepaid cellphone while I lived out of my van, I can attest to how critical it is to have a reliable address and phone number.

It's funny to think about now. I carried my trusty cellphone charger everywhere I went and plugged it in anytime I could -- cafes, the library, employment agencies... It was my lifeline.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

30. AHHH! But, you and I and the millions UPON millions "been there" have never been homeless,...

,...because we were given the liberty of shelter via another's shelter.

I'll bet (whether willing to admit it or not) every poster here has either been "homeless" (e.g. living in a home neither owned or rented by you) or sheltering a "homeless" person.

What is insane, to me, is the refusal to acknowledge the obvious.

I have found myself homeless, not without shelter but HOMELESS, three times in my life. I have ALSO provided a home whenever possible, given shelter to whomever asked and offered a helping hand when needed.

The last thing any 'progressive' individual would EVER EVER EVER do is treat a homeless person as something less than human, and an inferior being. A progressive would KNOW that state could very well be his/her life,...may very well BE/COME his/her life.

[canetoad]

35. Options. It's all about having options.

Appreciate your point about shelter via proxy. The scariest moment for me was this: I'd found myself locked out of my home, scooped up the dogs, went to nearest housing NGO office. Sure, they could find me a room for the night, but no dogs. No guarantee of room tomorrow night.

I said I'd think about it, went and sat in the car. In that short time I was truly homeless. I don't need to detail my thoughts, it is possibly the lowest point that any human can be at. No place to call yours at all. Nowhere to go.

After a while, still sitting in the car I needed to look at options. Kennel for dogs, me in room? No way, so I just sat there, ran through the people I knew, asked who was the least bothered about good houskeeping, most in need of a few bucks.

Maybe I was just lucky that circumstances decreed that I should have a friend that fitted this criteria. I dread to think of what may have happened if I didn't. It's no use beating up about the past.

Getting back to your post, it's amazing how many progressives think it's progressive to pull people up by their bootstraps, just so they are not a drag on progressive society.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

39. *lol*

My critters are family, too.

I struggled through similar situations.

I don't believe your last remark reflects, progressive. You must be talking about PARTICULAR individuals who are incapable of embracing ALL people as "human beings". THOSE are NOT "progressive". Of course, you know that and would never call such individuals, "progressive",...right?

[canetoad]

44. I'd never use a sarcasm tag

but if there was a 'black humour' tag, I'd wear it out.

And here's a tip: ask me a question straight out, you will get an honest answer. Phrase it in a manner such as 'you knew that, right?' and you'll get the brush off you deserve for being so arrogant. Right?

[bobbolink]

67. You have described the terror of homelessness so well!

You have a book in you!

A person here who was homeless for years a while back told me what EVERY homeless person I've spoken to at length has said.. that she just wanted to die. It was her two dogs that kept her living, because she couldn't bear the thought that they would have nobody to feed them.

So, she was referred to a shelter. The shelter said they would kill her two dogs and give her two weeks in a shelter. Riiight.. two lives for two weeks.. what a trade, eh?

Those two lives kept HER alive, and she should just have them killed.

Isn't the ignorance and cruelty just amazing???

[bobbolink]

60. "The last thing any 'progressive' individual would EVER EVER EVER do is treat a homeless person as

something less than human"

Maybe you have seen some of the things said to me on this "progressive" forum? I've been accused of being a fraud, and all sorts of things, but "progressives". That hurts much more than the same thing coming from a conservative.

We are no better.

And, yes, "progressives" should know better. But it's so much fun to kick someone who's down, someone you consider inferior to yourself. Fun.

[shireen]

33. thank you for reminding us ...

many of us are just one or two paychecks away from homelessness. It doesn't take much to lose a home.

I hope you're doing OK. :hug:

[lonestarnot]

34. My memories of it are not fond either. Everything about it blows until

you finally pull out of it and then realize you will never take anything for granted again!

[mntleo2]

38. Thank-you Canetoad!

I am about the age you are and I know of what you speak personally. This is why my passion is as an advocate for low income folks because I know there are far more reasons for being low income than the myth people somehow "choose" to be.

You and I came from the "yuppie" generation and while a few of our generation "made it," the rest of us just worked our butts off and got nowhere. We believed in the calls for the end of racism, sexism and for peace. Then we watched in amazement as those long haired rebels who went to every "be in" who whooped and hollered when they were told not to ever "trust anyone over the age of 30" and were the loudest at every protest against the war and for ending poverty, racism or whatever ~ just as long as it was "in." As soon as it wasn't popular anymore they then became the ones who profited from slave labor in Africa, applauded the rape and murder of nuns in S. Amerioca for "freedom,' while sipping imported wine and "talking to the coast."

The few of us of our generation who heard the call for justice and dedicated our lives to creating it, spent our lives in poverty because our work was not valued ~ as those fair weather protesters pretended it was. They mocked us and called us "idealistic" "unrealistic." They outright demonized the very people our generation's heroes like Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy died standing up for. Two days after MLK was killed he had planned his walk from MSS to DC for what he called the "Poor People's March." He planned to call attention to poverty that had many faces, and while disproportionally African American, it was also Native, Hispanic, and White ~ particularly female Whites.

We know the reasons for poverty and homelessness are because of our society's attitudes. It should be a right to have a home and health care and food ~ like most decent developed countries already guarantee to their citizens. I have a friend who is a former nun who used to run a housig project in downtown Seattle that took in addicts and alcoholics. She said the resident-kept building was clean, cheerful, windows boxes with colorful flowers and it was peaceful in the building even though it housed people who supposedly "did not deserve" housing. The troublemakers were the upper income people who frequented the suave bars on the block. Customers were always having street fights, police cars called, and people taken away ~ but not from her building. As a matter of fact the residents had an amazing recovery rate, of keeping jobs, of staying out of trouble. this was because when they got a stable place to live, it was dramatic as to how they behaved. DUH!

Nobody knows when they will be the next person sitting at the bus stop shivering from the cold. Nobody. I have met former millionaires who now have no home or are living in transitional housing. One of the biggest homeless populations right now are middle aged women with college degrees (many with Master's degrees) who cannot find work and there is no safety net for them, their children raised and no way to make a livable wage (age and sex discirmination is the worse with them no matter what race). There is nobody there for them ~ (Hillary, Ms Feminist, do you hear me?????)

To demonize the poor is about demonizing yourself.

You just never know ...

My 2 cents,

Cat In Seattle

[canetoad]

46. mntleo2, many people of our age are stuck in a time warp

and others have become the fucking heartbeat of the hunter-gatherer society. We are only talking about a few decades, a mere crease on the trousers of human society. The only thing that never changes is human nature.

We would love to belive that our neighbours, whether they be street, state or country, would do the right thing by us and not see any of us go without. It don't work like that. Never has, never will. The only significant changes made to the lot of the working person were through unionism. Unions are now pariahs because many officials were discovered to be hypocrites and used their position to feather their own nests. Much like politicians. There's always money to be made.

In broad terms of human life, I don't believe I have either suffered excessively or been advantaged over others. I relate my story only because it seemed an appropriate time to do so, in the context of other posts here. The expectation of a calm and trouble-free life is a fairly recent construct. In heeding this construct, is a disservice being done by not preparing people for wrinkles in their day to day life?

[bobbolink]

69. I guess I have nothing further of value to say, since I'm one of those hated "boomer"

who protested, and managed to help you get some of the things that are now taken for granted.

:cry:

[bobbolink]

57. Careful, there, I'm one of those "long-haired rebels" you disdain.

I get just as tired of being stereotyped and criticised as you do, so you have stung me with these words, and I want you to know that I DON"T do the same to *your* generation.

I'm also tired of generations that treat their elders with this kind of scorn.

Enough.

This hurts. :cry:

[Two Americas]

40. thank you canetoad

"Speak(ing) of homeless folk as though they area separate breed..."

That is the challenge - getting people to understand that there is no hard and fast dividing line between "them" and "us."

Some are too old, too traumatized, or handicapped and cannot make the recovery. We cannot judge others, assume that we know the way out of homelessness, because we can't know that what worked for us will work for everyone, or that voicemail, for example, or a free canvass bag would be the key to a person's salvation.

But most importantly, we can't know what tragedy or trauma could befall any of us at any time, how far down that could knock us, and how we would respond - or if we would even be able to respond.

It is in the cruelty of the game, the bullying that we call "success" - that is where the problem lies, not with those who happen to fall victim to it. We don't need to fix the poor, we need to fix the successful.

Thank you for this immense contribution to the discussion, and for helping us to understand this issue. It is really a matter of understanding ourselves, not "them."

"There, but for the grace of God, go I..."

[canetoad]

43. Ta. I heard your idealogy was pretty sound

Nothing you've said there contradicts the story.

Elsewhere on GD I have posted, and no doubt been ridiculed over, the obsessive need to database every aspect of our lives just because we live in the information age and information SHOULD be collected, archived, sorted because the technology is available to do so.

A database thumbs it's cellular little nose at the theory of chaos. That things sometimes JUST HAPPEN. It says, 'Fuck you, Chaos, if I collect enough data, I can prove that ANYTHING can be predicted given enough historical data.'

Despite the word 'clairvoyance' being nothing more than Clear Seeing, the ability to predict the furture has been both the carrot that urges aspirants and the stick that drives con-men, scammers and the extremely greedy.

With access to enough historical information and the ability to process it, you have a good shot at predicting the future.

...'The Bullying that we call Success'.....thats where this train of though began.

[bobbolink]

61. "There, but for the grace of God, go I..."

Not something we hear anymore, is it?

Maybe that is at the crux of the cruelty???

[Cleita]

42. Thank you for saying this.

I hope you are better now. A lot of young people don't realize that once their physical strength ebbs that they may not have new options.

[kineneb]

45. I have Not been homeless, however...

I have been far too close to the edge, far too often.
We have gone through Chapter 7 bankruptcy for medical costs and had to argue with the Trustee to be allowed to stay in our house.

Living from paycheck to paycheck for years makes one appreciate the truly important things:

-having a roof over your head, at least for this month;
-knowing there is food in the house;
-having lights, heat and running water;
-having your own phone number;
-having enough clothes to only go to the laundry once a week;
-having shoes that don't have holes or that hurt because they are too worn.

There are millions of people who would consider having the above to be as close to heaven as one could get.

Lacking a fixed and stable address in the US means becoming a "non-person". We need quality, affordable-to-the-poor housing, based on the old 1/3 formula. If a person gets $600/month SSI, then they should pay no more than $200 for their housing. If they work for minimum wage, they should be able to find housing that doesn't impoverish them. Subsidizing housing will still be cheaper than programs to aid the homeless and the other costs of not having proper housing (diseases, injuries, etc.).

[canetoad]

48. Yeppers. Of couse subsidised housing would be cheaper

but it would grate and grind away at the insides of those who believe you must 'earn your way', who believe that the strong survive and the weak must be dispensed with to further strengthen the resolve of the survivors.

I wonder how many of them have been in a death match, and if they then promoted 'survival of the fittest'.

kineneb, it's all relative. I can see both sides, though I agree with one only. The principle of repricocity can only work in a very small society, with more than about 30 people distrust kicks in. Thirty people can support one in need, 60 cannot support 2 because they need to make decisions on how that help is allocated.

In a society of 30, those who do not reciprocate cannot hide. 60 provides cover. Several million provide even more cover.

For the good of society, everyone should have at least a room, a sink, a stove, a toilet. Unfortunately there are some who feel that their path to wealth is somehow thwarted by others having these basic amenities. Now that is hard to get my head around.

[mntleo2]

53. What Is "Contributing"?

...this is the question that needs to be answered in a different way.

My country right now sees raising children as a"doing nothing" or "selfish" when in reality, raising the next generation will be creating the society who takes care of us when we are old. Yet it is not valued nor considered important. If you have ever raised a child, the toughest paid work in the world does not challenge you physically or emotionally, or intellectually as much, but we treat this work, the cost, the sacrifice is not as important as working any McJob. Yet our society's children will pay not only my Social Security, but others, they will contribute to my society, not just me when they grow up. The same with our elders. So much potential and experience is overlooked with our elders, plus they have already given their lives to build what we have.

So what IS "work"? I hope we begin to consider what is worthwhile, what IS contributing?

I am sorry, but I cannot value anything that is being done by some rich person who sits by their heated pool collecting their dividends. That is not "work" and it is not "contributing" as much as a welfare mother raising her two kids. Her work is by far worth more of my tax dollars, my community support, and my applause. I resent having to support the pool sitter. Let them pay their own bills, they have plenty, I want that woman's kids to grow up healthy, secure, loved, and educated so they can take care of not only the next generation but ME when I can no longer do so. I want the elder to be valued and heard because their insight and experience would certainly help us do more and make less mistakes. The pool sitter will only take care of themselves and consume more than they need.

So if it means that low income mother needs help with housing, yes! If it means educating her kids, you bet! If it means paying her family's health care oh yes! Moreover, if anyone did the math they would see from where our revenues are going, in the long run her needs are CHEAPER than supporting the pool sitter. My elders deserve all the same things, and I want to hear what they have to say and what they can do from out of their wisdom and experience to leave a legacy that enhances our future. Corporate welfare and welfare for the rich is costing us thousands of times more and I won't get anything back for the investment like I will with the welfare family or from the elder who has "been there done that," if I support them instead.

So ask yourselves sometime, what IS work that contributes to your well being? Some entitled person sitting by the pool collecting tax breaks and unearned income ~ or raising those kids who will take care of you in your old age? Wearing the newest rage and parading around the world looking "important," or the elder who could point out what might work better for my community? We seem to consider the welfare mom as a weight, and (secretly) the elder as not doing much, but I see them as our future and I want to make sure my future is as secure.

Seems like a no-brainer to me. :shrug:

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Hannah Bell]

49. You got that right.

49 billion budgeted for prisons (some private, for profit).

33 billion for the entire HUD budget.

[KillCapitalism]

47. I was homeless for a time myself.

I lived out of an old car in Chicago from October 99 to August 2000. It was pretty damn bad too, especially staying warm in the winter. As was mentioned above I didn't care for the shelters because it wasn't safe, unfortunately there are some homeless people out there who are violent predators who were recently released from prison & had nowhere else to go but the streets. I also don't like it when members of DU look down on the homeless. We really need to work together with our Dem. politicians to work on the homeless problem.

[ConsAreLiars]

50. The attitude of "There, but for the grace of God, go I" is as repulsive as it is well-intentioned.

It is another way of saying "That is not me; I am better or more favored by God than that." Sick to the point of a complete absence of awareness.

TwoAmericas had a few good words on this in post #40: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2939501&mesg_id=2940406

[MedleyMisty]

55. Hmm, I've never thought of it like that.

I always thought that it just meant that the person saying that could be in that situation at any time and so therefore shouldn't judge or hate or think of the person who is currently in that situation as Them or as lesser - essentially the point of this thread.

But then maybe that's because I don't believe in a god and I interpret it as there but for the grace of the randomness of the universe - like random events put me in this situation rather than that one but other random events could put me in that situation at any time. No judging or thinking that you're better or more favored than anyone involved.

[Midlodemocrat]

58. That is what it means. You are correct.

[Two Americas]

73. huh?

I never imagined that phrase would be controversial. Substitute the word "luck" for "grace of God" if you prefer.

The phrase means the exact opposite of "that is not me; I am better or more favored by God than that." It means "I am no better or more favored and that COULD be me."

[caseycoon]

51. K&R Thanks for posting this!

Too many people don't understand that the folks who are homeless now are whole families. They aren't homeless because they didn't work or because they're drunks or because they want to be homeless. They HAD homes, but lost them thanks to the sub-prime mortgage swindles or outsourcing of their jobs. Not only that but prices are going up & up on everything. Salaries darn sure aren't going up to match! It could happen to any of us. :grr:

[Iris]

63. Thanks for sharing and giving a "face" to the homeless.

I was disgusted by what the Google thread degenerated into. I hate when people make judgments about why someone does or doesn't have something in this society as if we can ever know someone's entire story.

"Most people think that everything/Is just what they assume"
Van Morrison

[w8liftinglady]

64. had it not been for a friend...I'd be homeless with 3 kids

divorce-foreclosure-shitty credit.Judge not lest ye be judged

[coalition_unwilling]

68. I've heard and read that as many as 300,000 U.S. Vets may be

homeless right now, although I can't lay my hands on a source for that stat.

It's just disgraceful. That's the only word for it.

[bobbolink]

71. There are also a lot of elderly who are homeless.

Just as disgraceful.

The issue is... what are we going to do about it?

Just hope a different president will turn it all around? Not damn likely!

[Grateful for Hope]

70. A healthy kick and a hearty Rec, canetoad. n/t

[Kajsa]

72. You speak for so many who

are now homeless.

One month's income, a serious illness, a greedy landlord/management company
doubling the rent is all that stands between many people ( myself included) and
homelessness.

Here in CA, the insane real estate market has all but eliminated affordable housing.

More power to you, canetoad.

;)

[demgurl]

74. K&R.

Thank you!