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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:06 AM
Original message
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I stumbled upon a program on the Science Channel today about a "bald chimpanzee" named Oliver, a strange creature they played up as possible being a "Humanzee." Now, from a little research on the net, it wasn't difficult to find data to suggest that Oliver was not, as the program surmised, some sort of human/chimpanzee hybrid, though there is what I believe to be considerable data to suggest that he was somehow more than an ordinary chimp. For one, he possessed not only the capability, but the desire, to walk upright ALL the time, something nearly all other chimps cannot do.

He lived several years ago and was, of course, exploited by humans for his novelty, but this whole story intrigued me. From all reports, here was a chimp that didn't act like a chimp, but like a human being. He interacted with humans not as a chimp that had been trained to pretend to be a human, but as a creature who thought he was as human as the next fellow.

I almost wish he'd come around after they'd started teaching apes sign language, just to see how much of it he could have learned, and whether he would've responded to language like a chimp, or like the humans he seemed intent to emulate.

Anyone can seek out information on this interesting character by simply googling "Oliver the Chimp."


They were replaying this show when I turned the TV on again, and it sparked a conversation with my wife as I explained to her about what I'd learned about it. Though the program attempts to suggest he was some sort of "humanzee," various web sites confirm that he did, indeed, have the genetic makeup of a true chimp, not some combination of human and chimpanzee.

Yet we had to wonder what the legal status of such a creature would be, should one actually come into being. It's certainly not outside the realm of possibility, considering where bio-technology stands today. It might even have been possible a decade ago, and a decade hence, it might well be a reality.

Most of the civilized world has banned such research, with good reason. I know a lot of DUers were yukking it up when the Chimperor himself brought it up in one of his speeches, but, as I said then, it's not really a joking matter. If certain countries like China or N. Korea see some value in experimentation in that direction, we most likely will begin to hear about such creatures actually existing.

Would being part human endow something with "human" rights, legally speaking? They once defended such things as slavery based on a belief that certain kinds of human were actually "sub-human." Could that thinking be used to defend the creation of a new slave class of hybridized humans, creatures that actually ARE "sub-human?"

I'd like to say that it would never happen, but we all know better. There are those who wouldn't think twice about it. Most of us would recoil at the thought. But who's to say that everyone would?

Canada banned experiments along the lines of human/animal hybrids somewhere in the neighborhood of five years ago, long before the Shrub ever mentioned it. I know it still sounds funny to some, but it's not that outlandish an idea to those familiar with the various avenues speculative fiction has led us down.

Possible? Hell, yeah. Likely? Let's hope not. Horrifying? Certainly.

It's a bit like the notion of enhancing the intelligence of, say, the dog. If we could do so (setting aside for the moment the question of whether we SHOULD--a question that some people wouldn't even consider in the first place) what would be THEIR legal rights under the law? They wouldn't have any, now would they?

What rights might an escaped hybrid receive if it reached American soil? Who would stand up to defend such a creature?

I think this is a question we should be asking ourselves, like it or not. Because, like human cloning and bio-engineered foods, it's all too possible that the reality could catch up to us before we have time to really consider the possibility. Bio-engineered foods are controversial enough, and they're already here. We could have been having the discussion about them LONG before they arrived, since many people postulated their eventual existence, but those of us who are drawn to consider such things long (or not so long, sometimes) before their time are rarely paid much attention at all.

Until it's too late.

Yes, I realize that the title led some people to wonder if I was going to be talking about the automobiles. Tricky how the language works sometimes, isn't it?

:D
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think conservatives are some evolutionary-impaired Neanderthal offshoot.
Flawed cognitive abilities that would have killed them off long ago, if not for the efforts of the Protoliberals.
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's why we need to bring back Lawn Darts...
cull the herd!
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. microchips will be smarter than chimps faster than chimps can be exploited
Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 01:26 AM by DS1
and microchips will evolve into nanochips, and the research you listed will be irrelevant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I fail to see what the two things have to do with one another. n/t
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm saying that it will be easier to program chips to be more advanced than chimps
and sooner or later, chips will be smart enough to program themselves, and that is the point of singularity. There will be a point when what we create overtakes us.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. And then SkyNet became self-aware
Apologies to The Terminator, of course.

:-)
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. of course
;)
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not going to smarm at your post...
You are both serious and correct,sometime soon old borderlines will be crossed and I will add we will need both bio and cyber ethicists...the question may more likely be a search for what qualifies as "me-ness" and if the awareness of that frame of thought does or does not confer rights...and does it matter if your dog or vacuum cleaner can can exhibit that state.Without kidding I fear the results of goldfish or coffeepots becoming aware...as a sci-fi guy,I bet you get this....whether the answer lies in "The Restaurant at The End of The Universe" where cows "nip off" to kill themselves in the kitchen or in HAL refusing to open the pod bay doors-the discussion is coming...and thanks for a good post.
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