Do you know someone who "is in debt up to their ears"?

[Angela Shelley]

This thread is about overspending over long periods of time.

We know a couple who has always spent more than they earn for the longest time: they have been living from revolving credit, loans from family and friends, and financial tricks which most would consider as being criminal.

They recently invited us to dinner and asked for our advice, because they had had a very uncomfortable meeting with their bank.

We told them that they will have to learn to live frugally, work more hours, and will have to sell off their luxury items in order to pay off their debts.

They were shocked. They didn´t think that their situation was that bad.

They don´t talk to us anymore. You might know why.


You may not like Greenspan or Bernanke, but it is advisable to pay attention to their predictions.

[galadrium]

1. I know plenty of people like that

99% of their problems are their own doing

[Robbien]

9. 99% of debtors are to be blamed because it is all their fault?

What a small world you live in.

[galadrium]

11. with the exception of medical bills it usually IS

I know tons of people who buy into our materialistic culture and get in debt buying mostly worthless consumer products like electronics, new cars, vacations they cannot afford, etc.

Who's fault is it usually? Those evil banks who force those poor people to take their money?

[Robbien]

15. Not just medical bills

There are divorces, loss of jobs, loss of families, etc.

99% of the people in debt are in debt because of bad events.

But all the press is about those big consumers overspending. Just like this thread. Its sole purpose is to spread the meme, 'blame the debtor'. Don't you dare feel sorry for them, blame them.

[galadrium]

17. I didn't say I didn't feel sorry for them

I feel sorry that there are millions of Americans that don't understand how to manage their money and live within their means. I'm sorry we have a culture that encourages people to buy buy buy, and never save.

Saying the majority of people who are in debt up to their ears is due to bad luck is naive as hell.

What would your solution to this massive consumer debt problem be?

[Robbien]

22. Stop the ownership society programs

The ownership society whose goal is to maximize profits, keep worker wages low and keep unemployment high.

For starters:

Bring back consumer protection laws to stop all the predation. Bring back safety nets so that people can recover from bad events. Bring some kind of health care system which doesn't purposely enslave people by putting them into debt.

And that is just for starters.

[galadrium]

30. This isn't about consumers getting screwed, its about bad choices

I agree with you on the health care stuff. However, there does need to be a level of personal responsibility for one's own actions. The answer isn't simply more regulation and government programs. The underlying culture needs to change.

[Robbien]

38. Who do you think sets that culture

No one other than the ownership society. You cannot turn on a radio or TV without someone telling you to buy. You cannot read a paper without being inundated with people telling you to buy. Even schools are full of vending machines and stuff to buy.

Our culture is to buy. We are no longer even referred to as citizens by our leaders. We are called consumers. Everything in our culture is about being enslaved to the ownership society by our consumerism.

Nothing in our culture warns us away from it.

[galadrium]

39. I actually like living in our mostly free society...

But it comes with risks and responsibilities. Not everyone makes good financial decisions, these people are paying the price for what is largely their own bad judgment. Thats what life is all about... learning from one's mistakes. The government can't protect you from every bad situation... and even if it could, thats not a country I would want to live in.

[Robbien]

42. Well

next time you pass a person down on his luck, give him a good hard kick why don't you? People enslaved by the "mostly free society for some privileged few" like to be kicked by their betters.

And keep up the bragging about your wealth. I am so impressed.

[galadrium]

46. Sounds like we need a government bailout for all the idiots who practically live at Best Buy

Meanwhile people like me who budget and live within their means will pay for it in the form of higher interest rates and higher taxes.

You don't know my financial situation, and there is a difference between being "poor" and not having money.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. Not to mention the pervasive FEAR in our society.

It started in the 50s, when the credit card boom matched the cold war - people were enjoying life NOW because next week they might be a pile of irradiated ash.

Today, with the TERRA TERRA TERRA mantra, the effect is the same. There is an unrealistic uncertainty about the future, so the prevailing attitude is 'get it now, worry about it later' and if later never comes, YOU WIN!

Lottery economics.

[AlphaCentauri]

62. Kids are getting engage in the consumerism culture they see it every where

how they are going to learn financial responsibility when they are thought to wipe the credit card to buy and work to later pay.

[galadrium]

70. one word.... PARENTS

[AlphaCentauri]

72. Parents are failing the test of financial responsibility, parents may have to be re educated n/t

[dysfunctional press]

29. "99% of the people in debt are in debt because of bad events"- BULLSHIT

unless you consider opening a credit card account to be a "bad event" (although...for most people it probably IS).

most of the people in debt are in debt because they have no real clue as far as how to handle their finances, or do know, but are just plain irresponsible and don't plan for the future.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. I think the "99%" is bullshit EITHER way.

It's much more likely that it is 60/40 - and I have no clue which is the 60 and which is the 40. There are millions driven to bankruptcy by personal tragedy - medical emergencies, death in the family, divorce. There are millions who rode high on good fortune, to have that cut out from under them when the firm went under, they got outsourced - one day you're upper management and just bought a 4500sq ft house, the next day you're spending 12 hours perusing monster.com and wondering how you're going to make that mortgage. And, of course, there are those who want to live a certain way and have found that by creative juggling, they can, for a while.

99% is bullshit.

[dysfunctional press]

52. no doubt. and it's often a combination of the two

people living paycheck-to-paycheck, and even a small fender-bender can turn into a total financial pile-up.

our economy, our way-of-life, is pretty much based on the idea of people wanting more than they have.
in times past, generally if people wanted something they couldn't normally afford, they would work- and save money until they could afford to buy it. nowadays, if people want something they can't normally afford, they buy it- and then work to pay it off. it's almost like indentured servitude- we've literally become slaves to our way of life.

[AlphaCentauri]

64. slaves and master of our own greed

if everybody would be saving money to buy a home instead of getting a mortgage then homes prices probably would be at the 75 to 100 thousands levels. So the economy has become dependant on the consumer.

[sepulveda]

58. i agree

nearly everybody i know chooses to live beyond their means.

that includes people across the income quintiles.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. Then I envy you your social circle -

because in MY social circle nobody CHOOSES to make 10% less than what it takes to live on. That's why almost everyone I know has 1 1/2 to 2 jobs.

Anyone who makes less that 22k HAS to live beyond their means.

[sepulveda]

61. i've lived in

several income quintiles and i see it across the board.

i've seen it in the hood. heck, i've seen it among the homeless.

i've spent a good part of my life living and working in the hood. i see some very motivated hard working people who live below their means and plan for the future.

i've also seen many more who overextend by choice.

[Angela Shelley]

54. It´s their own fault if they have lived above their means

for a long period of time.

This discussion is not intended to be about "catastrophes", but about households which continually live over their means.

It´s like the US government, continually spending too much. It´s not just one event, it´s daily activity.

[Two Americas]

69. this is just not true

This is a false and destructive idea that has dire consequences for millions of people.

Yes, for those living in the suburbs there is always a story about the neighbor or relative mismanaging their money and getting into debt in an attempt to "keep up with the Joneses" - establish status and reach for the good suburban life. It is a skewed and biased view to extrapolated a few cases in a very limited demographic - relatively upscale and striving white suburbia - and make generalizations about the general public from that. Unfortunately, this bias reinforces the right wing propaganda and that leads to massive suffering by real people.

Living and working for decades in urban and rural neighborhoods I never see this problem. Most people are struggling to cover necessities. Of course people are in debt. What alternative is there to that?

Saying that 99% of people's problems are their own fault in cruel and inhumane as well as being politically extremely reactionary.

This chronic problem among people who are nominally Democrats - a complete and utter failure to have any compassion for the people in the bottom half (which is now the bottom 75% and rapidly approaching 90% of the population) or even see them, even recognize that they exist - has ripped the moral core out of liberalism and the Democratic party.

[femmedem]

2. I know more people who don't have the means to live

than people who live beyond their means. I am talking about people whose bills became too much to handle when they got laid off from their jobs. Or people who did fine on a two-person income but couldn't make it when they divorced. Or people who've gone into debt every time they had a medical bill or a car repair because the only jobs they could land were $8/hour part-time.

Where I live, most jobs do not allow a person to afford a one-bedroom apartment and health insurance. And public transportation here is lousy, so most people need cars, too. It is easy to see how people go way into debt. Not so easy to blame them for it.

[Saturday]

3. Not all people are smart about politics.

Not all people are smart about money. Money issues should be taught in detail in our high schools IMO.

[sergeiAK]

40. Agreed! The lack of education is staggering.

[mac2]

4. Sorry you lost your friends.

The truth hurts. Maybe they wanted to borrow from you so they wouldn't suffer and lose face.

We live in the rich burbs outside Chicago where they live way above their salaries. They have huge 4000 sq. ft. homes with play-sets in the yards.

Our young neighbors, who bought new cars every year, remodeling, etc. and hire help to do cleaning, yard work, etc., are now renting their rooms. One down the street made his home multi-family in a single family neighborhood.

Why aren't our zoning laws enforced by the village? Nope the village workers don't even live in our community and don't care.

It's not just DC who are lawless in this country. Greed rules. People lack ethics and financial common sense. Prosperity all around them and they have to get "theirs".

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

5. As "owners" of the national debt

we are all in debt up to our ears.

We can continue with "borrow and spend" Republicans.
Or switch to "tax and spend" Democrats.
I prefer the latter. It's more "pay-as-you-go".

Oh, you mean "personal" debt. Yeah, I know a few. They bought too much house on an ARM, and it's sucking. It's their own fault in a way, but it's hard to find "enough house" these days, every builder is making mansions.

I don't know anyone who committed any kind of fraud to get where they are.

[mac2]

16. Lack of middle class housing in the country.

Local housing reflects our economy of extremes of rich and poor. There are lots of new apartments and condos...and huge mansions but few mid-sized homes.

Even previousy mid-sized homes (three bedroom 2,600 sq.ft.) are now considered million dollar ones in the high cost living areas of our country.

Retired people find homes more costly in the "retirement belt" than previously because local real estate people (and foreign investment) drive up the prices. They have no good jobs in those areas but real estate.

We looked at a lot in Ashville, NC which increased three times it's value in just two years. Real estate people turned it over and over. Try to get a nice three bedroom in Florida or Arizonia that is reasonable. Years ago they were cheap so people did move there for the weather and the nice homes. Not today unless they live in trailer like homes.

Health costs and housing are the reason the retired are staying put. The over supply of homes didn't bring down the price either.

[Robbien]

6. Most the people I know who are debt ridden, are so because of health care bills

Missing work due to illness or accident caused them to get into debt. Then the health care bills were just piled on top.

Most threads such as this at DU are blaming the debtor. Saying 99% of all debtors are bad people and it is all their fault.

I strongly disagree.

Many people are in debt because they have crappy jobs which have not kept up with inflation and some event such as an accident or illness put them over the brink into indebtedness.

[mac2]

8. That's true too

No "rainy day money" can pay for the huge health costs today.

[gollygee]

13. Most of the debt-ridden people I know are in that situation or have recently

gotten divorced.

I do know a few people who have continually spent beyond their means, but at least among people with debt problems I know, it's definitely a minority.

[sergeiAK]

7. I know a few

Expensive houses, ARMs. Expensive cars, on 6 year loans. Credit card debt all over, low paying job. I can't help but wonder when the house of cards will crash for them, but when it does, I can't really say I'll feel bad for them.

[Robbien]

14. Which is how you are being prepared to feel

Blame the victims. Don't you dare feel sorry for them. Feel sorry for the creditors.

Don't you dare blame predators or this lousy ownership society whose main goals are to keep wages low and unemployment high and keep the lowly paid consumers shopping.

Blame the debtors.

[sergeiAK]

24. I lived within my means

These people make roughly (plus or minus 10%) what I do. They spent roughly 1.5x what I do. I drive a used car, they bought new cars. I rent a cheap apartment, they bought high-priced houses. They lived beyond their means. I did not. I don't feel any sympathy for them.

The banks have some blame in this, but if people weren't willing to borrow the money, they wouldn't be lending it. Both sides screwed up in this scenario, let them both deal with it now. I refuse to subsidize irresponsibility in either lending or borrowing.

[Robbien]

28. Oh yes. You lived right

and everyone else lived wrong.

Yes there are people who are living beyond their means. But many of them are not living beyond their means. They took out second mortgages to cover some family or personal calamity. They got suckered into predatory loans when they were led to believe they were taking out good loans because of their good credit. You want them to go down in flames?


If the person who is living beyond their means buys into your neighborhood, you will be the one hurt by a foreclosure just as much as they would be. You still want them to go down in flames?

[sergeiAK]

31. Just my personal experience.

Some people surely got screwed through no fault of their own. I just don't know any of them. If you want to put together a proposal to help them, good. I'll support it.

"They got suckered into predatory loans when they were led to believe they were taking out good loans because of their good credit."
How do you not read a goddamn mortgage agreement? Do these people not understand basic math? If the lender actually lied, nail them to the wall. Otherwise, let the foreclosures happen, let the banks fail, and let the rest of us who refuse to borrow 500% of our income have a chance at owning property.

You mean like the 4 foreclosures on my street already? Sure. I'm thinking of buying one of them. My current landlord just bought another one of them (his third rental property now). This housing market was over-inflated due to speculation and stupid lenders/borrowers. It had to come down, and it's doing just that.

[shrike]

50. The lender is required by federal law to disclose everything in the contract

When we had a mortgage, this was done at the closing, page by page, and I believe the loan officer had a recorder going. But then again, she was just a lowly loan officer in a lowly bank, not some flashy mortgage broker who advertised on TV.

Doesn't mean people shouldn't read their contracts. It also doesn't mean that people's eyes don't glaze over when the info is disclosed. But the lender should be doing what the law requires.

[idovoodoo]

44. So are you proposing the government should bail out everyone who's in debt?

:eyes:

[Robbien]

47. No

Just stop the predation and give the debtors a bit of breathing room to correct their situation.

No proposed bill is seeking to bail out the debtors, just give them a little help. Many of the proposals though do have provisions for bailing out the ownership society and making lending institutions whole.

[idovoodoo]

75. If someone's suffering financially from medical costs I have no problem with helping them but

the fact is not very many truly "poor" people are in big trouble...most of the ones who are having these kinds of problems are middle-class people trying to be nouveau-riche. Look at the folks who continually rebuild in flood plains with assistance from monies collected in taxes...they aren't the poorest by a long shot.

[Robbien]

78. You emphatically state that "not many poor people are in big trouble"

And where do you get this vast knowledge?

You jump on the backs of people in trouble ridiculing them, blaming them, spitting on them for stupidly getting into debt, while you stupidly declare "not many poor people are in big trouble".

You see a few people around your comfortable area bring home big screen plasma TVs and point at them and say, see that's what I mean. Those are the majority of the stupid people who are in debt.

Bah, pure smallminded blindness.

[idovoodoo]

79. You probably shouldn't smoke that shit.

:eyes:

[davsand]

37. Why am I doing without stuff if bills are not my responsibility?

I'm driving an Escort wagon that was not made in this century because I feel I can't "afford" a car payment if I want to buy groceries and still pay the co-pay to take my kid to the Doctor if she gets sick.

I live in a two bedroom house because it was what we could make payments on when we bought it. It was what we could afford if we ever faced a day when only one of us was working.

We took a family vacation last year that was a few days away in a guest house. It was on the other side of the state rather than in some exotic location. We do not own a motor home or a boat, nor does my kid own an ATV or motorized scooter. I do not own a bunch of fine jewelry, expensive perfumes or designer clothing--nobody in my family does.

Simply put, my husband and I both work and we make our buying decisions based on what we can afford. We look at worst case scenario--like the loss of one income--and we plan accordingly. Anything left over is a "frill" and it means that we can do stuff like take a vacation or buy a bigger / better / newer version of something.

I am bummed that I don't make more--I work for local government. I am bummed that my husband doesn't make more--he works for a non-profit social justice organization--but the fact remains that we ARE responsible for the bills we incur. It IS our responsibility to make sure that the family is taken care of and that means we have to act like adults when it comes to spending decisions.

I have a very visceral response to hearing anyone say that this debt load people carry is NOT due to personal spending decisions. We do have the right (I feel) to specific things like access to health care, healthy food and water, and a good education. We do NOT have a right to expect a McMansion in the most popular new subdivision, the newest car or even a vacation to anyplace other than our back yard.

I'd love to eat fresh wild caught fish and eat gourmet artisan breads every day. I'd like to have a glass of good wine with a meal. It would be awesome to have a brand new car to drive--I'd like that a lot. I'd LIKE to be able to go to Australia or Egypt on vacation. I'd LIKE to have a house with three bedrooms so we could have a guest bedroom.

I'd LIKE to have a lot of stuff, but I have to PAY for it, and that is where this debt load comes into the discussion.

YMMV.


Laura

[BigDaddy44]

65. Victims?

If I buy a car and a house that i ultimately can't afford, I'm a victim? Nobody put a gun to their head. They could *gasp* drive an old, beat up car. Many of us do. They could live in a small house, or an apartment. Many of us do.

[jojo54]

10. My daughter and our friends.

My daughter is in debt up to her ears right now. She let her own credit suffer to help clear her boyfriend's. The good thing to look at is, they are getting married in a month (they have 2 kids together) and she can now start to concentrate on getting her own credit back to good standing. But my hub's credit, which has always been excellent, is now suffering because of her student loan that he co-signed for. The interest rate kept climbing until she had no choice but to consult with a debt relief company and she's now making payments to them until the loan is paid off.

Our friends just recently took out an equity loan. They paid off their mortgage because they only had 2 years left, but the bulk of the equity loan went to their credit card debts, which was A LOT.

It's only going to get harder for the lower and middle class to catch up. Hell, we might as well hang it up for the next 100 years. Next thing ya know, the cities will be charging rent to the homeless.

[Donnachaidh]

12. Are you sure they weren't feeling you out for a loan?

If they've already worn out their welcome with the families, they will probably be looking for easy marks amongst their friends.

I applaud you for giving them a reality check. People who live the life doing the credit juggle need to realize it cannot last forever.

[Angela Shelley]

57. No, they thought that we could give financial advice

which would "feel good". Unfortunately, when the well has run dry, it´s dry.

[samplegirl]

18. My daughter alike

she's not making enough to pay all her and student loans as well.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Had Me. Had Me. Lost Me.

Greenspan and Bernanke have been wrong about EVERYTHING! They have not predicted a single thing accurately.
The Professor

[El Pinko]

25. Yep - to hear them tell it, things will be hunky-dory after a few months of sluggishness.

This will be a recession - or worse - that none of us will soon forget.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. A Little History On Al

1990. Predicted recession would deepen because 41 raised taxes. Didn't happen.
1993. Predicted recession and contraction because Clinton raised taxes. Didn't happen.
1996. Predicted the growth rate would trigger high inflation. Didn't happen.
1996. States that the current economic growth was unsustainable for more than another year. Wrong.
1998. States that unemployment was too low and this would cause a wage spiral that would lead to a severe recession. Wrong.
2000. States the the tech "bubble" was the most significant factor in the boom he said wouldn't happen. Nobody who has ever actually analyzed the data would agree, since it had leverage of under 1%.
2002. Encouraged a second round of tax cuts as a way to sustain economic performance. How'd that work out?

Now, he says that the economy is screwed up. Well look who just caught up!
The Professor

[DrDan]

20. yeah - I know several couples like that

it is like they want all the luxuries, whether they can afford them or not. They want all the best, without regard to whether the items can be paid for.

It is like they feel they are due them.

They live month-to-month on those credit cards.

I was at the mall with one of them a few years back. He stumbled across a watch he thought would make a great Christmas gift for his wife. He had to go through 3 credit cards before he found one that could handle the purchase - the other two were maxed out. It was embarrassing to be with him at the store.

These people are not greedy - they want the best for their wives and children. They just do not question whether they can afford to buy something.

[ThomWV]

27. Just a comment

I agree with you, but I want to share an observation with you. There is a lady I've known for a couple of decades who was a student intern when I first met her. She is a big old country girl who had never, other than in pictures, seen a town of more than 500 people before she went to college, and she's smart. She is not pretty by today's standards but were these pioneer days she would be quite a catch. I just love her to death and her "old man" (partner for 20+ years) is one of the finest men I have ever known - Union man too. He was President of our Local for the last 5 years before I retired.

Vicki is an accountant and one thing that always amazed me is that even after she pass the test and became a CPA, and all the years I've known her, she continues to take undergraduate college courses. Anyway, she and he have good jobs and individually they make more than the average family in this part of the country. They live very modestly however. She owns their home and to this day he pays her rent. They enjoy outdoor activity, mostly hiking, and both of them do a good bit of volunteer work. Vicki once told me she enjoys living well below her means.

You want to talk about one admirable woman.

[DrDan]

32. it is great when a person or a couple can find a level of living

where they are are comfortable - and feel no need to compete with others regarding material matters. Why introduce stressors like huge mortgages and credit card balances when they bring no additional happiness to your life.

I guess we were at that point at some time in our history, but greed has certainly taken over . . . and is becoming the absolute one factor that is ruining this country.

I think if there is one thing that can best characterize a republican, it is greed. I do not mean that to describe conservatives, as I think one can be conservative and have admirable values. republicans, however, are interested in nothing but furthering their own personal place in life. Tax cuts, raping and pillaging of other countries that are a personal threat to them, on and on and on.

The woman you describe and her partner would not make good republicans.

[DrDan]

34. btw - are you from West Va?

My Father was from around Bluefield WVa. His Father was killed in a mine accident many many years ago.

My wife and I visited his childhood home this past summer on our way to Elkins for a music festival.

West Va is still one very pretty state.

[supernova]

45. That's how you get to be rich

" Vicki once told me she enjoys living well below her means."

Just because you earn it doesn't mean you are obligated to spend it on stuff that isn't required. If you have the necessities covered and save the rest, you can do pretty well.

[InkAddict]

71. I knew couples that were very satified with a frugal life

and paid thousands to their churches over their lifetimes. The churches they belonged to did very little for their own parishoners or communities, prefering to give it away to to poorly run foreign "missions" and church hierachy administrative budget items.

The parishoners at those churches always got 1st dibs on the good stuff donated to "rummage" sales at rummage prices or less, and the couples always had something nasty to say about their fellow worshipers...i.e., she can't sing, why is she in the choir?" "That lady is always so poorly dressed, and her husband is a tailor." "Did you see X sleeping through the sermon? (knowing full well he was a caregiver and worked a physically exhausting job)"

Years ago, someone I know who sang in an acappela choir, chose not to go on an invitational European tour. For her, it would have been the experience of her life which she could have afforded. After the group got back, she quit the group because all they ever talked about was the trip."

Also, I can recall the story of a minister calling on an ex-parishoner's family after the parishoner got sick and needed to move away for 24/7 care. The person's son was also unemployed at the time, but that didn't stop the minister from checking to see if he'd be receiving the big check at the holidays that the sick individual usually provided.

So, just because someone is satisfied and content with their frugal lifestyle doesn't mean they're not selfish. The greed and selfishness isn't always overtly displayed.

[supernova]

76. Wow, you read way more into my post

than is there.

This is a thread about being able to cover the bills and most people thinking now that they can't.

I simply said that it's not impossible to get a little scratch together.

How you turned that into greedy church people is beyond me.

:shrug:

edit: I stand by my statement. Living beneath one's means is always a good thing to do, regardless of one's motivations for doing so.

[ThomWV]

21. I presume they don't talk to you anymore out of embarrassment. That's OK

At least you shocked them into some action. It means that what you said sunk in, it had an effect. Now they know. Of course they've always known. They know they are in trouble, they know how they got into trouble, they know what they were doing to keep afloat and they dam sure know its not working anymore. So don't be much concerned about their embarrassment. You did good.

Somewhere last week I ran across the information that in some recent statistical period there were more bankruptcies in this country than divorces. I know two couples who have gone into divorce but nobody I know of has mentioned they were going into bankrupcy. There is a lot more embarassment out there than we are seeing, they just aren't talking to anyone.

[devilgrrl]

23. Yes, I know someone up to their ears in debt. The United States of America.

eom

[Eurobabe]

49. Amen.

[Angela Shelley]

53. Although everyone already knows about it,

not everyone is willing to change their lifestyle.

[spanone]

33. most of my family

[IdaBriggs]

35. Yes, I know quite a few people like that -- "Priority Challenged."

Electronic toys (seriously, $400 cell phones and $300 Playstations when you are late with your gas and electric bills?), nice vacations, and a history of refinancing when the credit card debt gets too high.

They put nothing away for retirement, or a rainy day, or the future. They buy boats and "second homes" that they never get to visit, or visit for a few days a year.

Its hard to feel sorry for them when their chickens (bills) start to come home to roost. It irritates me when folks on DU assume that "everyone" with financial problems is that way because of an ARM (which one wise man I know equated to gambling with your family's home in Vegas), or medical bills. *All* of the folks I know with financial problems are that way because of either being a) Priority Challenged as I've mentioned, or b) Career Fools (where they decided to work "seasonal jobs" and then get shocked when they can't meet their financial obligations during the "off" season, or are stuck in jobs that seemed like "good money" when they were young, and didn't plan for their future with either education or on-the-job training).

[Lorien]

36. I am, but it's due to massive medical bills and two long periods

of unemployment. When I was 32 I had $80,000 in savings, now I owe almost half of that in debt. :-(

[Nye Bevan]

48. Tell them to watch this video...

http://video.aol.com/partner/hulu/saturday-night-live-dont-buy-stuff/nJL3iSCZ9KOP1d3-9QnyRYw9R19ihanU

[Angela Shelley]

51. Thanks for the link, that´s funny and wise!

[Indenturedebtor]

55. We're slowly getting it back down

We started out in debt though.

To get a job you have to have an education = debt

To get a job you have to have work clothes = debt

To get a job you have to have a car = debt

You need somewhere to live = debt

Indentured from the day you're born my friends.

[fascisthunter]

56. Yup... Me. Student Loans

and I have taken many steps to rectify the situation I am in. I have done well the last couple years managing my debt by paying it down, however I am far from being out of debt and live on a very strict budget. Sometimes I go without eating meals....

I have taken responsibility for my actions for going into debt. MOST PEOPLE DO!

[Bill McBlueState]

73. that's exactly what the OP means!

Some people have the audacity to eat meals all the time, when they should be living frugally and within their means. Stupid meal-eating Americans.

:sarcasm:

[sweetpotato]

59. I blame advertising

Advertising - designed to make you unhappy with what you have, so that you BUY stuff to make yourself happy.

Then, THAT stuff is declared *out or obsolete* so you become unhappy, and you go out and buy more stuff.

Advertising has done a great job in driving our consumer society. Propaganda for shopping.

[ProfessorGAC]

66. Not Me

I have a different take on advertising. I have read, in the past, that advertising doesn't really make people decide to buy anything. Rather, it is intended to, and is very effective at, creating brand identity.

So, when a choice is made to buy something, the ad gets people to buy Brand Y instead of Brand X.

A good reference on this is Crawford's "New Product Management", or Boyd & Walker's "Strategic Marketing".
The Professor

[Indenturedebtor]

74. Yeah ads are designed to sell things

But that's kinda like shooting the messenger don't you think? And while it's certainly part of the feedback loop of consumerism, it's the materialism of our culture that is truly to blame.

Nothing matters but status, and the best way to display your status is with job titles, stuff, and money. Stuff = success. I've even heard dum-dums talk about objects in terms of "class". I've heard people defend total and utter scumbags by talking about how much money the asshole has.

"Life is a game and money keeps score" and all that crap.

We have fundamental cultural issues that advertising exploits and certainly does help to propagate. But our obsession with money is more than an obsession with stuff. It's how far too many of us measure their personal worth. The stuff is just an attempt to show off that personal worth.

Well and some of it is just plain cool heh.

[blondeatlast]

63. One. They spent a fortune on their wedding, are now divorced, and neither has recovered.

That was FIFTEEN years ago.

[leftofthedial]

67. I used to be, but

I had to hock my ears

[InkAddict]

68. I'm sorry, but once FAFSA agrees to fund higher educations, they

should be sure not to undermine one's ability to re-pay by outsourcing one's income for such long periods of time that it endangers one's leverage to repay. They get clear #s regarding one's status on those forms and synthesized with IRS forms, they can reach reasonable conclusions about debtors Plan-B (Plan A, self-pay, being just for the rich and portfolio'd). How the heck did they think they'd get repaid if they outsource the debtor's jobs multiple times, removing and/or decimating their A-L plans. If the debtors didn't need assistance in the first place, they surely wouldn't have asked FAFSA to authorize loans. Drinking hemlock should not be the only option for relief as one heads into senior "fixed income" years, and it's little consolation that eventually, owners of whatever means will necessarily pay some, but the poor will be further enslaved and oppressed!

Not to mention what it takes to raise daughters--all those feminine products, frivolous makeup, hair, and nails, extracurricular high school activities that are not as well funded as football in order to round out a school resume.

Oops, fixed a word.

[Indenturedebtor]

77. Yeah the whole system has been rigged for centuries

Rich people are only as rich as everyone else is poor. Money is simply a symbol for work/goods. If everyone was rich, then who would slave away for the rich? The game is rigged. You are meant to be an indentured debtor from the day you are born.