I hate it when I aggree with Pat Buchanan.

[jazzjunkysue]

But at least the real discussions are happening.

They're screaming about the economy on McLaughlin (irritating, but usually more honest and less P.C.) and Buchanan just said we sold the US economy to the trans national corporations. Neither the GOP or dems have thought through a post nafta trade policy that makes any sense at all.

"They're globalists, all of them."

That's my whole arguement with Hillary.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. jazz

I'm right there with you. I hate when I agree with him . . . but I'm watching it too -


Hmmm, maybe he's coming over to our side! :-) Comes toward the light Pat - just come to the light! LOL

[sepulveda]

15. he's not coming over

he's always been there.

pat is an isolationist (to some extent) paleocon.

he is consistent on that.

but pat aint comin' over to the left. that wouldn't be a road to damascus conversion. that would be a road to Betelgeuse. many many light years.

[Bandit]

2. What exactly is your argument with Hillary over this?

She is the only candidate to propose putting restrictions on American Corporations that have moved to offshore havens to evade taxes.She has proposed no contracts be awarded to any company guilty of this. Obama hasn't yet spoken up on this issue but I suspect he would agree.

[TheFarseer]

6. She keeps insisting NAFTA has worked

and WTO is somehow god overall for American workers. Obama wants to eliminate tax breaks for outsourcers and re-work NAFTA which doesn't go far enough for me, but I think Hillary doesn't really give a shit about American workers. She takes money from outsourcers and the Chinese and what has she done in the Senate to help with this problem - she wants more HB-1 visas which is the exact opposite of saving jobs for Americans. I can't stand this two-faced BS that she is pulling all the time. If you want someone that is at least halfway credible on this issue, vote Obama. Clinton doesn't have a shread of credibility.

[BearSquirrel2]

12. Remember Wal-Mart ...

Remember that Hillary was a big player on "team Wal-Mart". Don't think for a second she didn't help plan Wal-Marts massive drive to the bottom which her husband helped kick off by pushing through the permanent tag on China as a "favored nation" for trading.

[jazzjunkysue]

7. If what you're saying is true, and I have no idea, then she got one right.

But that hardly matters when we're propping up the international military markets with illegal and immoral occupations. She's also not talking at all about getting out of the oil economy by developing options.

She's more of the same, with a slip and panty hose.

[sam sarrha]

3. dont give him ANY CREDIT, a broken clock is right twice a day

[theredpen]

5. Pat Buchanan's opinions may be odius...

...but they are usually well-researched. Pat gets caught up int he spin sometimes, but you usually have to do your homework to counter-argue him. He tends to get his facts correct. Sure, he's come out with a few knee-slappers here and there, but overall, he tries to keep it above board — even though you wish he'd crawl back under a rock.

With Buckley gone, he's one of the last conservatives who really knows anything about anything.

[sam sarrha]

18. he is a SHOCK DOCTRINE Facist.... nothing good can come from anything he advovates,

[theredpen]

22. I agree

It's just that he does make an effort to argue from a factual basis. It doesn't mean that I'm praising his conclusions or even saying that he's not loony.

[jazzjunkysue]

8. well put. n/t.

[Turbineguy]

4. Yes indeed,

you know things are bad when Buchanan says something that seems rather reasonable.

[jazzjunkysue]

9. Amen. n/t.

[Elspeth]

10. "They're globalists, all of them." Yep.

And they put the truth in the mouth of a tool who will never be believed.

[Va Lefty]

11. Pat Buchanan is like an Alzheimer's patient...

Every once and a while he has moments of lucidity and says something intelligent, but most of the time he is just talking nonsense

[AngryOldDem]

28. I was just about to post something similar.

With Pat, you never know what you're gonna get. The sane, common-sense Pat, or the batshit loony Pat. Always an adventure with him. But no, he'll never come over to the "our side," and he goes just a little too far on the isolationist side for comfort.

[jasmine621]

13. So is Obama the same as Hillary. No diff. nt

[Cerridwen]

14. He's just pissed because he's not getting his piece of the pie.

He's like a child having a temper tantrum because he can't hang out with the "grown ups".

Here's more of pat buchanan's wisdom lest you get to feeling too warm and fuzzy toward his temper tantrum:

"How long is this endless groveling before every cry of 'racism' going to continue before the whole country collectively throws up?" (syndicated column, 7/28/93)

White House advisor Buchanan urged President Nixon in an April 1969 memo not to visit "the Widow King" on the first anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination, warning that a visit would "outrage many, many people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps worse.... Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the most divisive men in contemporary history." (New York Daily News, 10/1/90)

In a September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan described multiculturalism as "an across-the-board assault on our Anglo-American heritage."

In a 1977 column, Buchanan said that despite Hitler's anti-Semitic and genocidal tendencies, he was "an individual of great courage...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path." (The Guardian, 1/14/92)

Go read more from this "anti-globalist unless I'm part of the club" sack of slime.

[jazzjunkysue]

17. Well, I qualify as anglo-american, and he makes me sick.

Thanks for that reality check. Much appreciated.:hug:

[Cerridwen]

21. Thanks for taking it in the way it was intended.

:hi:

That slimey waste of skin and oxygen is just fine with globalism; he's just pissed it's not xtian and "white" enough to meet his warped standards and "they" have left him out.

He'll be just fine with globalism as soon as they pay him enough to STFU and give him a seat at the "grown up's" table.

[Hydra]

16. About 5 times in the last few years has Buchanan said something that sounded sane

And each time, I have to ask myself if I've gone crazy, or the world for him to be the voice of reason.

It ain't me- we're in f***ing wonderland.

[jazzjunkysue]

19. Lol! It's true: He was drumming us into war. A little truth when it can no longer help

really amounts to nothing.

[amandabeech]

23. Are you referring to the war in Iraq?

My recollection of Pat on MSNBC was that he was against the Iraq war.

He's a semi-isolationist paleocon, but, for all his faults, not a neocon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[jazzjunkysue]

24. I really can't say when he became reasonable, but he started out

going along with the good ol boys, to my recollection. He always seemed to be to be Bush Apologist #1. But I'm not saying I've got all of his transcripts committed to memory.

When it was all winding up, and I was out on 51st street on Feb 15th, freezing to death at the pre-invasion protest in NYC, I don't remember anyone within range of a microphone daring to argue with the little King. I heard no vocal dissent on my TV.

[TahitiNut]

20. Yep. It sure is aggreevating.

:dunce:

[spanone]

25. me too, but don't forget that a broken clock is still correct twice a day

[unblock]

26. shrub and the neo-cons jumped right over buchanan in their lurch toward fascism

buchanan stayed right were he always has been, on the lunatic right / protectionist fringe.

that he looks sane next to the shrubbies is a telling indicator of just how absolutely bonkers the shrubbies are.

[The Doctor.]

27. Pat's a good guy.

Oh, he's dead wrong on just about any ideology, but he's a keen observer and really can tell it like it is.

[walldude]

30. Respectfully disagree...

Buchanan is a racist asshat. Heres a bit of his own words:


White House adviser Buchanan urged President Nixon in an April 1969 memo not to visit "the Widow King" on the first anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination, warning that a visit would "outrage many, many people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps worse.... Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the most divisive men in contemporary history." (New York Daily News, 10/1/90)

In a memo to President Nixon, Buchanan suggested that "integration of blacks and whites -- but even more so, poor and well-to-do -- is less likely to result in accommodation than it is in perpetual friction, as the incapable are placed consciously by government side by side with the capable." (Washington Post, 1/5/92)


In a column sympathetic to ex-Klansman David Duke, Buchanan chided the Republican Party for overreacting to Duke and his Nazi "costume": "Take a hard look at Duke's portfolio of winning issues and expropriate those not in conflict with GOP principles, reverse discrimination against white folks." (syndicated column, 2/25/89)

Buchanan on affirmative action: "How, then, can the feds justify favoring sons of Hispanics over sons of white Americans who fought in World War II or Vietnam?" (syndicated column, 1/23/95)

In a September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan described multiculturalism as "an across-the-board assault on our Anglo-American heritage."

Oh and an anti-semite:

In a 1977 column, Buchanan said that despite Hitler's anti-Semitic and genocidal tendencies, he was "an individual of great courage...Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path." (The Guardian, 1/14/92)

In his September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan declared: "Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free." (ADL Report, 1994)

Homophobic?

"Homosexuality involves sexual acts most men consider not only immoral, but filthy. The reason public men rarely say aloud what most say privately is they are fearful of being branded 'bigots' by an intolerant liberal orthodoxy that holds, against all evidence and experience, that homosexuality is a normal, healthy lifestyle." (syndicated column, 9/3/89)


In a 1977 column urging a "thrashing" of gay groups, Buchanan wrote: "Homosexuality is not a civil right. Its rise almost always is accompanied, as in the Weimar Republic, with a decay of society and a collapse of its basic cinder block, the family." (New Republic, 3/30/92)

On AIDS, Buchanan wrote in 1983: "The poor homosexuals -- they have declared war upon nature, and now nature is extracting an awful retribution (AIDS)." (Los Angeles Times, 11/28/86) Later that year, he demanded that New York City Ed Koch and New York Gov. Mario Cuomo cancel the Gay Pride Parade or else "be held personally responsible for the spread of the AIDS plague." "With 80,000 dead of AIDS, our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally hell-bent on Satanism and suicide," Buchanan wrote in 1990 (syndicated column, 10/17/90). In the 1992 campaign, he declared: "AIDS is nature's retribution for violating the laws of nature." (Seattle Times, 7/31/93

There is plenty more here:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2553

[The Doctor.]

31. That's what I meant by 'wrong ideologically'. nt

[walldude]

32. How do you equate that "ideology" with a good guy?

I can't separate the ideology from the man, especially when it's racial or religious. I could stomach it if it were just political.

[femrap]

29. People who were in the WH at the time of NAFTA

say HRC had major problems with it. But since you think that a women can't have a separate thought from her husband, I don't want to confuse you.

And BO hates Corporations? :rofl: I think you have him confused with John Edwards.

[eridani]

33. Obama is similar. Both are very recent fair trade converts. n/t

[Ordr]

34. Buchanan

I think that Buchanan is brilliant on an intellectual level but a nuts on a few others. I definitely enjoy him on Chris Matthews and Tucker just because he's respectful and articulate. That said, however, I did buy his most recent book to see what his general viewpoint is and...well...yeah. He's certainly not someone I'd want to vote for :).

[AllexxisF1]

35. Although..

Although I do not agree with his ideology Pat is really entertaining. Not only that the guy sticks to his principles...sure they may be gut wrenching at times but you know where you stand with him. He is enjoyable on camera and a joy to hear him discuss politics.

As far as right wing pundits go ...Pat is aces on likability.


Moreover I'm sure he said and meant all those things in the past, but everyone eventually grows up and sees the world a bit differently. I bet you anything Pat would say that he was dead wrong in the past.

[JCMach1]

36. And Obama is better how???

[Ordr]

37. "And Obama is better how???"

Perhaps you should research the positions of Mr. Obama and contrast them with those of Mr. Buchanan. The differences are rather...significant.

[JCMach1]

38. Obama's chief economic advisors are Chicago School...

in other words the evil spawn of Milton Friedman...

The people Obama gets his advice from (note, this also includes his foreign policy team) are WAY too far to the RIGHT for my liking.

So yeah, I actually take Obama seriously when he says he intends to bring Republicans into his administration. :(