Dean to McCain on CNN: "What about John Hagee? "

[madfloridian]

Exactly right. Why doesn't he back away from his support? Dean pointed this out as he was going on the attack against John McCain on CNN today.

From the CNN transcript.

But look, John McCain is a flawed candidate. Here's a guy who has a typical situation ethicist. He runs on his integrity, but he doesn't seem to have any. We're familiar with the fact that he got on the ballot in Ohio with what now turns out to be false pretenses. He qualified because he was taking public financing, and now he says he's not going to. He doesn't have the permission of the FEC to do that.

And just this week, he refused to denounce and reject John Hagee, a militant, anti-Catholic right-wing pastor. John McCain has a history of doing what it takes, regardless of what the ethics of this are. I think he's going to be a flawed candidate. I don't think people want four more years of what essentially is George Bush.

Wolf tries to being attention back to making up a fight among Democrats. Dean brings up Hagee again.

John McCain has a problem with personal integrity. He has a problem of saying one thing and doing another.

What about John Hagee? What about a guy who is a vicious anti- Catholic, who is supporting John McCain, and John McCain does not denounce or reject him? As Barack Obama did to Louis Farrakhan. That is the kind of stuff that really bothers Americans. People arguing over philosophy is not a problem. We can have our disagreements with John McCain. Maybe people want to stay in Iraq for 100 years. That's fair game. But people will not elect somebody that they don't think is honest, and I don't think that John McCain has made a case for his honesty.

Reverend John Hagee is a very scary man indeed. On a State of Belief program last year Welton Gaddy said that James Dobson and other leaders had been summoned to meet with George Bush about radical Islam, apparently as it pertains to the dangers posed by Iran. Then Dobson had 5 shows about it. At the time other sources called out John Hagee as one of them.

Bush is using religious right leaders to push the danger of Islam, Iran.

...."Hagee Leading the Charge

Pastor John Hagee
On Sunday March 11, Pastor John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel, received a rousing reception during his address at the opening dinner plenary of the annual American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) conference.

Hagee warned the crowd that "Iran poses a nuclear threat to the State of Israel that promises nothing less than a nuclear Holocaust." Hagee claimed that the situation is like 1938, only "Iran is Germany and Ahmedinejad is the new Hitler."

Hagee added: "We must stop Iran's nuclear threat and stop it now and stand boldly Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East."

I remember a Bill Moyers Journal program which showed Joe Lieberman taking part in a group which revered such leaders as Hagee.

Moyers Journal: Lieberman compares John Hagee to Moses..."leader of mighty multitude"

Of describing Pastor Hagee in the words that the Torah uses to describe Moses, he is an "Ish Elokim," a man of God and those words really do fit him; and, I'd add something else, like Moses he's become the leader of a mighty multitude, even greater than the multitude that Moses led from Egypt to the promised land.

Hagee continues in the segment to call for a massive attack against Iran.

JOHN HAGEE: Iran is a clear and present danger to the survival of Israel. To the United States of America and the western the world-- western world. Therefore it is time for America to embrace the words of Senator Joseph Lieberman and consider a military preemptive strike against Iran to prevent a nuclear holocaust in Israel and a nuclear attack in America.

BILL MOYERS: On that, participants at the CUFI summit seem to agree: the times call for urgent action - even military action. Some of them believe war - and rumors of war - are part of God's plan.

And Howard Dean is right...McCain has getting all flip floppy on Hagee's endorsement.

Initially, John McCain had an admirably straight-talking like on John Hagee -- he was proud to be supported by the anti-Catholic, anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, "pro-Israel" Christian leader who hopes to see the Middle East plunged into massive war that will result in the end of the world. Now he's getting flip-floppety:

"Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee's views, which I obviously do not.

"I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society."

McCain on Hagee

McCain is associating with someone who is preaching fear and hatred toward islam. He should back away from him.

[jody]

1. McCain has Hagee, BO has Farrakhan. Poor Hillary, she doesn't have a religious millstone! n/t

[Skinner]

2. Low blow. The comparison is not valid.

Obama rejected and denounced Farrakhan. McCain has not rejected or denounced Hagee.

[jody]

3. Low blow is a matter of opinion. What McCain does or doesn't do is no concern of mine. Still Hillary

has managed to survive religious endorsements so far. I understand she was involved in religious groups at one time but I believe they were along progressive lines in keeping with her membership in the United Methodist Church.

Have a good day, :hi:

ON EDIT ADD:

Obama said “I have been very clear in my denunciation of Minister Farrakhan's anti-Semitic comments,’ Obama told Tim Russert, NBC Washington Bureau chief.”

McCain said "’Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee's views, which I obviously do not.’”

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

10. I must say this....about Hillary and religious leaders.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1474

"We contacted all of Clinton's Fellowship cell mates, but only one agreed to speak—though she stressed that there's much she's not "at liberty" to reveal. Grace Nelson used to be the organizer of the Florida Governor's Prayer Breakfast, which makes her a piety broker in Florida politics—she would decide who could share the head table with Jeb Bush. Clinton's prayer cell was tight-knit, according to Nelson, who recalled that one of her conservative prayer partners was at first loath to pray for the first lady, but learned to "love Hillary as much as any of us love Hillary." Cells like these, Nelson added, exist in "parliaments all over the world," with all welcome so long as they submit to "the person of Jesus" as the source of their power."

From Lewis at Center for Public Integrity:

"On the Fellowship Foundation’s annual Form 990 tax-exempt-organization report to the Internal Revenue Service, under " Relationship of Activities to Accomplishment of Exempt Purposes, " the foundation declares that its aim is " to identify laymen who have an understanding of what it means to work towards a leadership led by God and introduce them to others with similar goals and interests. " Theocracy literally means government by God, and it could be defined as " a leadership led by God. "

Now, that said...she would be a good president. I just prefer another.

[jody]

12. I believe Hillary is a member of the United Methodist Church. UMC was among the few that vigorously

protested Dubya's unjustified war against Iraq. In fact Dubya refused to meet with a council of UMC bishops who wished to discuss the pending war with Iraq. :shrug:

Sad thing is Dubya and Cheney are also UMC members.

Dubya claims God told him to invade Iraq but it's my personal opinion that the Devil spoke to him.

[madfloridian]

23. If you read what I linked to....it is not about a church per se.

It is about the Fellowship.

[jody]

32. I accept your point but in fairness will you apply that to all candidates? n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Dupe. Delete. nt

[Joyce78]

27. Obama "denounced" until Hill demanded "reject" support.

[Jackpine Radical]

36. Oh, ferChrissake.

This crap is doing nobody any good.

Why does Dean's well-formulated attack on McCain have to be turned into a bunch of internecine bickering anyway?

I hope to hell that the rabid supporters of both our candidates go through a sweat lodge ceremony or something as soon as the Primary season is over with and get themselves cleansed of all the emotional filth they've been rolling in.

[Horse with no Name]

28. But he didn't reject or denounce Kirbyjon Caldwell n/t

[madfloridian]

4. Jody, did you miss this part? McCain did not do so until pushed on it.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/mccain_on_hagee.php

I agree it was a low blow.

[jody]

5. Hey, I'm not a McCain supporter. On the other hand BO selectively rejected Farrakhan just as McCain

selectively rejected Hagee.

My point is that so far, Hillary has not been burdened with such a religious leader's endorsement.

[madfloridian]

6. What is "selective rejection"?

Could you explain?

[jody]

9. Read the quotes I cited in #3 above. BO and McCain very carefully circumscribed their denouncements

I didn't bother to search further on the Internet but neither BO nor McCain can afford to lose the support of those who follow Farrakhan and Hagee.

Both candidates released carefully worded statements designed to defuse the media attention while preserving the support of religious groups.

Of course that's my opinion and mostly what I read posted on DU anymore are opinions.

[Virginia Dare]

8. True, but...

Hillary has questionable conservative religious affiliations..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2917482

[jody]

11. I believe Hillary is a member of the United Methodist Church. I've also read of her involvement in

the McLean Bible Church.

I don't know what the McLean creed covers but I am familiar with the UMC Book of Discipline and Book of Resolutions. IMO UMC is among the most progressive denominations in the U.S.

I know very little about the Trinity United Church of Christ to which BO belongs. It's agenda appears to be more focused than progressive. Last year Trinity gave its Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epitomized greatness", Louis Farrakhan. That award suggests a strong bond between Dr. Wright's followers and Farrakhan's followers although the award could have some other meaning.

Perhaps BO denounced Trinity and Wright for giving that award to Farrakhan but I haven't read a news article on that statement. Perhaps you know of one?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

14. UMC has stirring of divestment from Israel. Wonder if Hillary will be asked about

her take on it?

And Hagee is truly a mad man. Check out his show on religious TV sometime. It's the stuff of nightmares.

[jody]

17. I don't have the stomach to watch Hagee. n/t

[cali]

29. Doesn't matter

Hill's done. She's not going to be the candidate. And she hasn't denounced or rejected her good friend, Rev Rivers who supports "gay conversion therapy". But what matter, she is over.

[jody]

33. Looks like you're right re Hillary. n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

15. Obama does not have Farrakhan. Unless Farrakhan expressing

support works two ways. (A clue: it doesn't). Obama has denounced him and all that he stands for. The problem here is not that some bigot likes McCain - there will be plenty of them doing that, I'm sure. The problem here is that McCain is happy to accept that support and won't denounce the hatred the man spews in order not to jeopardize that support.

[jody]

20. "Obama has denounced him and all that he stands for"? What I've read is selective denouncements like

this. Obama said "'I have been very clear in my denunciation of Minister Farrakhan's anti-Semitic comments,' Obama told Tim Russert, NBC Washington Bureau chief."

Please help me by providing a link to a quote of Obama denounced Farrakhan and all that he stands for.

[JerseygirlCT]

21. How about you show where he's supported him?

Because that's what the issue is here, isn't it? An assertion that Obama has in any way supported Farrakhan?

He's denounced him, he's denounced his anti-semitism (you have that right there). There's nothing more to be said, and frankly, the less said about people like Farrakhan, the better. They like the attention.

[jody]

22. You said "Obama has denounced him and all that he stands for". I simply asked for a source. n/t

[madfloridian]

24. The last debate with millions watching. Link:

"Coping with Hillary Clinton's special code of conduct is surely an unbelievable burden. Simply put, Clinton sets a standard for political opponents that she wouldn't think of applying to herself.

Consider her practice of holding a candidate accountable for a supporter's remarks.

In the Ohio debate this week, Clinton wouldn't quit until Obama said that he would "reject and denounce" the endorsement of his candidacy by Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. That Obama had not solicited the endorsement and has consistently deplored Farrakhan's anti-Semitism did not matter to Clinton."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/29/AR2008022902986.html

[jody]

34. Thanks, good point. You said in #23 "It is about the Fellowship." BO has been a member of Trinity

United Church of Christ since about 1988. Apparently Trinity, with its over 8,000 members, is one of the largest and most influential churches in the African-American community.

Trinity under the leadership of Obama's mentor Rev. Jeremiah Wright, gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to Farrakhan, a man it said "truly epitomized greatness."

Perhaps you are correct and many voters will agree with you, "It is about the Fellowship."

Obama was a member of the board of the Joyce Foundation and apparently considered becoming its president. Joyce has spent several million dollars funding the Violence Policy Center and its avowed purpose of banning all handguns.

Obama recently has taken political positions supporting the Democratic Party's platform statement "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms".

On the other hand, perhaps you are correct and many voters will agree with you, "It is about the Fellowship."

There may be another possibility, a skilled politician like a chameleon may adopt whatever position necessary at the moment to further her/his career.

[JerseygirlCT]

38. And

OBAMA: You know, I have been very clear in my denunciation of
Minister Farrakhan's anti-Semitic comments. I think they are
unacceptable and reprehensible.

I did not solicit this support. He expressed pride in an
African-American who seems to be bringing the country together.

I obviously can't censor him, but it is not support that I
sought. And we're not doing anything, I assure you, formally or
informally with Minister Farrakhan.

RUSSERT: Do you reject his support?

OBAMA: Well, Tim, I can't say to somebody that he can't say that
he thinks I'm a good guy.

(LAUGHTER)

You know, I have been very clear in my denunciations of him and
his past statements. And I think that indicates to the American
people what my stance is on those comments.

RUSSERT: The problem some voters may have is, as you know, the
Reverend Farrakhan called Judaism "gutter religion."

OBAMA: Tim, I think -- I am very familiar with his record, as
are the American people. That's why I have consistently denounced it.

This is not something new. This is something that -- I live in
Chicago. He lives in Chicago. I've been very clear, in terms of me
believing that what he has said is reprehensible and inappropriate.
And I have consistently distanced myself from him.

[marmar]

35. What an unbelievably tacky and Fox-like distortion of the truth.....

.... Desperate times create desperate posts. :eyes:

[jody]

37. Thanks for your opinion about the facts I cited. n/t

[Poiuyt]

7. Not only has McCain NOT backed away from Hagee, he actively went after his support

and they appeared together when Hagee made his endorsement.

[lupinella]

13. McCain deserves to be grilled on this.

The fact that he desired the endorsement of a man who espouses such vile sentiment needs to be a topic of discussion by the mainstream press. I am proud that Sen. Obama pressed the issue.

[madfloridian]

16. Video of McCain saying he is pleased to have the endorsement of Hagee.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/mccain-proud-of-endorse_b_89227.html

[snot]

18. I love Dean! SO SMART:

McCain's greatest strength is his perceived "character"; his greatest weakness is any link or likeness to Bush. Dean's all over both angles. Whoever else we've got on PR, Dean's THE MAN.

[bklyncowgirl]

30. Add to that Clark attacking his military credentials and we got the old one two punch going.

While some may question borrowing a page from Karl Rove's playbook, I say if you can back your charges up with facts--do it.

[UrbScotty]

19. Howard Dean is so unlike many Dems. He has guts.

If every Democrat in power had Dean's guts, we'd have a Democratic president and many more Democrats in Congress right now.

[madfloridian]

25. Video of the interview today...Crooks and Liars

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/02/late-edition-howard-dean-john-mccain-is-a-flawed-candidate

[EndElectoral]

26. Someone needs to tell Hagee Israel is no longer the only democracy in the MidEast

[malaise]

31. Dean was fabulous

on Blitzer yesterday. To be fair to the Wolf, he did ask Kay Bailey Hutchison some good questions about Hagee and McLame and she slopped big time.

Add.

[bulloney]

39. I've watched Hagee's hate fests on a local TV station.

I could not believe that something that vile can land a TV show.

The only thing more repulsive than Hagee's appearance is that hate-filled crap that comes out of his mouth.

And what's more scary, he has a following of several thousand lemmings.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. We should have nominated Dean in '04. Instead, our nominee voted for the IWR- and was uninspiring.

Geezus, I hope we don't make that same mistake this time around.