It’s Time To See Our Health Care System For What It Is:

[FlyingSquirrel]

A tool of enslavement.

Think about the 65-year-old who won’t retire because he/she is worried that Medicare won’t cover their current situation, or that they won’t be able to afford their prescriptions. Or they don’t have that problem but they’re worried it could happen and they can’t afford “Medigap” insurance.

What about the person who hates their job, but feels stuck? Someone like, say, me? I’d love to be a paid writer. Should have gone that direction a long time ago, but life interfered. Posting here on DU has really gotten me interested again – recently I even wrote a song. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/FlyingSquirrel/1 I’ve never done that before. But here I am driving a bus. How about my wife? She spends all her spare time taking jewelry-making classes and making handmade rings, earrings, etc. She’s really talented. People see her stuff at her work and whip out the checkbook.

Either or both of us could make a go at doing what we love for a living, but we’d have to take the health insurance situation into consideration. How much would it cost and would we be able to make enough to afford it? And cover the kids too? Would the coverage be equivalent? How much might the rates go up? Could they cancel us? There’s a lot of uncertainty involved.

If there were universal health care in this country, think of all the people like us who might just dare to attempt their dreams instead of slaving away in unsatisfying careers. Think of the people who would dearly love to have the jobs we might vacate. Think of the elderly people who could enjoy their golden years without constant worry.

Does it really make sense to tie health care to jobs? Do people in other countries just “live off the system” rather than working because they have free health care? Are our citizens somehow lazier than they are?

Universal health care would truly create a rising tide that would lift all boats. It would free many from the slavery of their jobs. It would lift many out of poverty. Oh, and it just might help out with that whole “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness” thing.

If you haven’t already, please see “Sicko”.

[JeanGrey]

1. Nobody EVER should have to slave away in a job they

absolutely hate that isn't their dream, just for insurance......NOONE. I had a good friend who had to go back to work at 72 after retiring because his stupid idiot son made two kids he refused to support and then took off and my friend was raising them and needed insurance for the kids......he was diabetic and swollen all the time and he lasted about four years. He had buried his wife after a three year battle with cancer and had just found another lovely woman and they had been married exactly five months when he passed..................

I often wonder if he'd be with us today if not for working himself to an early grave.

[Vincardog]

2. WE are just wage slaves working to enrich the "privileged elite" AKA the Chosen ones.

It is time we stood up and demanded that our government work by and for US not the parasitic corporations.

[LWolf]

3. I do. That's why I want HR 676. n/t

[Mac128]

4. Unions Don't Help Either

My neighbor in her 40s was given the choice to retire from United Airlines early and keep her health insurance or continue working and take a cut in health insurance coverage. She didn't particularly love her job, but she enjoyed doing it. However, her husband was very ill and she couldn't afford to lose the current coverage she had. So she opted to retire early. A year later, United then revised the health insurance package for all those who chose early retirement, which basically cut their coverage in half. They ended up being screwed both ways. And their union simply rolled over. Now she does a job she hates because they help make up some of the health care deficit but not all. Now she is considering selling her home and/or moving to a tax free state. This is the state of health care in this country.

[liberal4truth]

17. The Teamsters Union just rolled over on the latest NMFA agreement...

with YRC.

we are going backwards, not forward.

[annabanana]

5. There are many many good reasons for single payer, universal

health care....

This is a big one.

[rurallib]

6. Between that and the bankruptcy bill Bushco

has effectively staunched entrepreneurship and in the process choking future growth. Unexpected consequences? I doubt it!

[Skittles]

7. I hear you Squirrel

I would have changed careers long ago if I could have afforded school and health insurance at the same time

[margotb822]

8. America would be a better place if the government took care of the people

I wrote an article for my website regarding this point. Check it out!

[FlyingSquirrel]

10. Nice. Did you post that on DU also?

[margotb822]

11. No, I didn't

This is the first link I've posted. I'm glad you enjoyed it :)

[FlyingSquirrel]

12. If you post it in General Discussion I'm sure you'll get a lot of recs

and possibly some more visitors to your site.

[Quantess]

38. Okay, margotb822, I read your diatribe, and I felt disappointed.

I think your political opinions are like a moist pretzel, pretty damn bland and sorry. Or was that soggy?

[angstlessk]

9. see the 'old lady ad about fixodent'?? now she can work a LONG DAY

cause she is confident her dentures wont fall out...she might drop dead.. but her teeth will still be in her mouth! :grr:

[lostnfound]

13. And consider those with terminal illness. Or relatives thereof.

I posted a thread on this related subject six weeks ago. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2658719
"U.S. Health Care Lottery: Things of Value at the Final Frontier"

You may have hit upon a big REASON why we don't have universal health care. Even though individual corporations would like to rid themselves of the health care costs, they don't band together to lobby for a government-sponsored plan. Why not?

[Greyhound]

14. Every dollar of profit that health insurance companies take represents a theft

of a human beings life. It is shameful and it is inexcusable.:grr:
:kick: & R

[ileus]

31. That means they Thieved 40 Billion lives last year.

I read in Newsweek or Time where insurance companies took in 160 billion and made 40 billion profit.

[taught_me_patience]

15. I think most people use excuses

to not pursue their dreams. With careful planning an dilligence, lack of health care should NOT be a deterrent to pursuing your dreams.

[AdHocSolver]

16. In a civilized society, no one should be denied affordable health care.

You must be single and a very young person to make such a dumb ass statement. Older people who have families know better.

One of the biggest reasons that the standard of living is dropping in this country is due to a lack of affordable health care.

Access to health care should not be tied to employment. That gives way too much power to the multinational corporations. That is one reason why many smaller U.S. companies cannot compete.

No health insurance clerk should be given life and death decision making power over anyone.

A large number of bankruptcies are due to high medical costs.

The U.S. spends almost twice as much per person on health care than ANY other country on earth. Yet we are lower than many other countries in terms of quality of health care and outcomes.

[kineneb]

23. medical bankruptcy here

we went through Ch. 7 because Hubby had to go on dialysis, and there is no way we could pay the bills on his SSDI income. Plus, we had to cash out all of our assets (401k, life insurance, etc.) before he became officially "disabled," so he could qualify for low-income health coverage.

There are two standards of living if one develops a chronic illness in the US. One is either rich enough to have very good coverage, or one becomes very poor to qualify for Medicaid (and disabled enough for Medicare, for certain conditions). There is no middle class for the very ill.

[Canadiana]

29. Your story is....unreal to me

And a perfect example why I love my Canadian health care system. We all pay into the same insurance system (a public one), which diffuses the risk immensely...therefore when someone is unlucky enough to need dialysis or 2 years of chemo (a mere couple millions of dollars worth) they don't have to PAY FOR IT. The American System is the biggest sham that has been pulled over your eyes. It is the perfect mixture of oppression of the people + making profits at the same time!! Unbelievable.

[kineneb]

36. our pecular system

We don't have to -pay- for Hubby's medical care outright, but we had to go broke to qualify for the only coverage he could get- that designed to serve the poor. Between having employer-subsidized insurance and poverty, there is nothing available. Any money one has gets paid out, and only then does one qualify for government-paid healthcare.

Having figured out the system, I have no incentive to seek legitimate employment, as that will put us over the income limit, and cut off Hubby's Medicaid coverage. When he dies, I will not be able to earn more than $600/mo or I will have a "share-of-cost" down to that amount if I need any medical care or medicine. So why make any more "above board"?

[lligrd]

18. I've Been Stuck In My Job for 14 Years Because Of It

My son had a serious injury when he was very young and part of the settlement was that my insurance company would pay for all his needed surgeries as long as I remained a member. Since I get the insurance through work, I have been stuck. My spouse does not receive health insurance through work and with less and less companies offering health insurance, it looks like I am stuck until I can retire. I am not complaining, I feel quite fortunate to have a job that includes it but I would have quit long ago were it not for the insurance.

[FlyingSquirrel]

19. Shouldn't be. And yes many people use excuses..

But many people have legitimate fears as to what could happen.

[taught_me_patience]

21. I agree

people do have legitimate fears, but most can be planned for. I've thought about leaving my corporate job and starting my own business. Every single time, I've been thwarted by fears and excuses. To be honest, lack of health care is high on that list. When I really analyze the problem, though, I feel like it is easily overcomable.

[warren pease]

20. Nice lofty goals. However, in the fact-based world which most of us inhabit...

Here's how things actually work.

This year, premiums will total $14,088 for my wife and me, and it's a 100 percent chance that they'll increase in 2009.

Prescriptions are reasonable as long as you're using generics. If there are no generic equivalents, brand name drugs are either $50 or $70 per scrip.

Then there's deductibles, copays and random payments to cover the difference between the "negotiated settlement" that the insurance cheapskates paid out and what the doc actually billed for his services. Sometimes that gap is a few bucks; sometimes its a hundred or so. Occasionally, it's considerably more.

I contest each and every fucking penny of every single one of these outrageous overcharges and usually get most or all my money back. But I've got the right set of character traits for the exercise. I'm an extremely vocal, confrontational, aggressive, highly pissed off, complete non-negotiable bastard when dealing with these pricks. I will never accept their deals and I always have my facts straight before going to battle with them. Not all people have the temperament, time or energy to do this, so there's a lot of money that's not theirs that they can just steal because nobody's willing to get in their faces about it.

However, I have no illusions about who's winning the war. Keep in mind they're still getting a gigantic pile of money from us each year and will continue doing so until either they're replaced by a sane system or I decide to risk going without insurance and hope like hell I don't run up a hospital bill large enough to force me to file for bankruptcy. Moving on...

Bottom line, we'll probably spend close to $18K this year on medical-related stuff. And mind you, we're pretty healthy for the most part. I suppose the price rises along with the amount of care you consume. The invisible hand of the free market at work.

I will say that the coverage itself is pretty decent, they've never weaseled on or flat out denied a claim and they don't fuck with my doc any more than the vampires at other companies do.

There is no vision care or dental coverage available at any price under this program or anywhere else, since needing glasses is a preexisting condition, and so are cavities, peritonitis, poor jaw alignment and so forth. So you can see an eye doctor as long as you don't need to see one, and you can see a dentist as long as there's absolutely nothing wrong with your teeth.

Anyway, this $18K or so outlay per year is, believe it or not, supposed to be a fucking deal. We're both 57, both work for ourselves and have for decades, both have those dreaded pre-existing conditions (and who doesn't by the time they hit middle age, unless you've lived your life exclusively in a bubble), and are therefore absolutely uninsurable on the alleged free market.

So Oregon has this high-risk pool where people like us can get coverage at prices that make strong people gasp. To even qualify for this pool and be extended the privilege of spending $18K a year on medical bills, you have to be denied a policy by three conventional insurance carriers. Since we're both persona non grata in the world of for-profit medicine because of the aforementioned preexisting conditions, getting rejected was as simple as filling out forms and waiting for the "We're sorry, but..." notices to arrive.

But looking to the bigger picture, even though it's a kind of sick twisted comedy watching the sheer stupidity and mindless illogic we apply to medical issues in America, this nonsense about almost $1200 a month in premiums for the two of us is just legalized extortion. And the premiums have gone up by double digit percentages every year we've had it, starting in 2002, I think. You'd think we'd get 24/7 protection from the leg-breakers and an armored limo to ride around in for that kind of money.

Thing is, it's not really medical insurance; it's protection money paid to an organized crime syndicate to keep them from stealing our house, cars, bank accounts and anything else that isn't fused to the earth's core should something serious (i.e., expensive and requiring hospitalization) happen to either of us.

Medical insurance has nothing whatsoever to do with health care except in the twisted minds of Chicago School libertarian fanatics and free market pitchmen. Break that nonsensical, artificial link, dump the idea of for-profit medicine entirely, replace it with single-payer universal-access and spread the risk over the entire population in the form of a modest, progressive tax. I'd be willing to bet a pretty good sum that no matter what we'd end up paying in taxes to fund such a system, it's going to be considerably less than that estimated $18K we'll piss away on premiums and overpriced drugs this year.

And the final insult: We suck at keeping people healthy. Here's some info I just got from doing a sort on the World Health Organization database and, lookie there, the US spends more money as a percent of GDP than any other country in Europe or the Americas. Which is bad enough, since most of these other countries manage to spend far less and still provide universal access to health care for all. But then you look at this chart and discover that the US ranks 37th in the world in overall effectiveness of its health care system -- right ahead of that medical nirvana, Slovenia.

Finally, here's an article I wrote in January that might interest you.

Meanwhile, good luck pursuing your dreams if you happen to develop chronic pain and can't afford to see an expensive specialist.


wp

[FlyingSquirrel]

22. Wow. Kicking to get this post more coverage (pun intended)

Gawrsh, I guess I'll just stay in my safe, comfortable job attached to the steering wheel with my golden handcuffs.

Or not.

:grr:

[haele]

24. If your on your own and relatively healthy with good genes, go for it -

If you've got a family, a chronic issue or disability, or family history of anything nasty (diabetes, heart problems, cancer) to look forward to, you are pretty much stuck working for "tha man" if you want medical coverage for you and your family. Especially family - those damn "hostages to fickle fortune" most working people are shackled to.
If you've got nothing to lose, it makes it so much easier to strike out on your own. Especially if you have some savings or minor wealth due to inheritance, wise investing, or a windfall. Most "Self Made" people don't like to admit how much luck and schmoozing went into those bootstraps they supposedly pulled themselves up with.

Haele

[raccoon]

32. Careful planning and diligence aren't of much help when a person has

a catastrophic illness/accident. Even if the person has insurance they could still end up with a humongous bill.

[UALRBSofL]

25. FlyingSquirrel You can ask me anything about healthcare and I can give you an answer

Just suffice to say it's terrible. We desperately need UHC but I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.

[FlyingSquirrel]

26. In your lifetime we will see some serious shit

And universal healthcare will not be part of it. Doesn't matter what country you move to. The dominos will fall and the US will be the first domino.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. On a different side of the coin, doctors all over NY are going to Albany today to protest a huge

hike in malpractice insurance. There are reports of some thinking of leaving NY for states with lower rates.

As an aside, my son told me the other day that he had a talk with his pediatrician about Universal health care, and this wonderful doctor had no problem with it at all.

[Trailrider1951]

30. Insurance

Quote: "hike in malpractice insurance"


I've said this before and now I'll say it again: INSURANCE IS THE PROBLEM, NOT THE SOLUTION

If we paid money into a govt sponsored pool like Social Security instead of into the insurance (legalized extortion) industry, there would be plenty of money to cover ALL of us. Until we remove these blood-sucking, money-grubbing, scum-sucking, profit-skimming parasites from our health care system, it will remain broken.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

33. And that is why both of the Democratic candidates plans are poor. We will still be left in the

hands of the insurance industry, who will continue to have the power of life and death.

[Echo In Light]

28. Profits over people = American Way

[raccoon]

34. "Does it really make sense to tie health care to jobs? " No, especially since

lots of jobs don't offer any fricking insurance anyway.

[WeCanWorkItOut]

35. Over $400 billion a year too much to hospitals, doctors. $100 billion a year too much to insurance.

Our difficulty is, we need to look at the health care situation as a whole.
We need to look hard and honestly. And we need good information.
People know that insurance is a problem. But how many people know that
our hospitals are far too expensive? that they are the biggest factor in the cost equation?

We really need to know such things if we are going to make good decisions.
We're rapidly heading toward spending 20% of our national income on health care,
which takes a lot out of life. Would the privilege of being able to change jobs
be enough to make up for that? For some, maybe. But Medicare-for-all won't solve
Medicare's severe budget difficulties, or the overwork problem.

[FlyingSquirrel]

37. They are far too expensive because it's a for-profit system.

And because the hospitals have to charge extra so that those who have insurance will make up the money for those who don't, but still have to be treated (at least the minimal amount necessary to prevent a PR disaster for the hospital) and will never pay due to bankruptcy.

If we had universal healthcare, we would also have the ability to regulate and negotiate these costs downward to reflect reality.