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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:34 PM
Original message
Pelosi: Surveillance Bill Focus Should Be on "Exclusivity"
Pelosi: Surveillance Bill Focus Should Be on "Exclusivity"
By Paul Kiel - March 6, 2008 - http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/pelosi_surveillance_bill_must.php


Despite recent signs that House Democrats will likely ultimately vote on a bill that contains retroactive immunity for the telecoms, negotiations on a final version of the surveillance bill remain ongoing. Dems, after saying that a vote might come as early as this week, now seem unclear when it might happen.

In a conference call with bloggers today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) made it clear that her highest priority for a surveillance bill was that it contain a so-called "exclusivity" provision -- a measure that would explicitly state that the bill would be the "exclusive means" by which the government would conduct surveillance, or in other words, the president does not have the power to ignore the law if he/she so pleases.

"Exclusivity is the issue," she said.

The Bush administration, which circumvented FISA to conduct its warrantless wiretapping program, does not want its hands tied ...............
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Bush administration, does not want its hands tied, how do they feel about handcuffs?
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just say no........NO to IMMUNITY!!!!!!!
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Moving the Goal Posts. Smoke Screen and Pittance Measures to COVER UP THEIR COMPLICITY in Immunity.
Pelosi is a HORRIBLE human being and in earlier times would have been brought up on TREASON charges for her complicity in subverting the CONSTITUTION. Off with her head!

j
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Personal attacks are inappropriate. If that all you have .... ? be silent.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wait a minute. So, all they had to do to circumvent "signing orders" was insert an,...
,..."exclusivity" provision?

Is that for real? :shrug:

If so, why hadn't it been done before? Oh, well, of course the WAR-N-PROFIT Repukes would have blocked it!! Still, had exclusivity not been previously written into laws pertaining to constitutitional issues?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. A portion of the withholding of immunity has been used to force revelations
and that game continues. We do not know what is being covered up, not officially at least. But, more members outside the few Intelligence Comm. members, have been briefed, presumedly lied to at best even then. So, our Reps are working in the dark about the actual facts and especially proofs of what Bush did! They are reacting to the situation as it develops, and acting as lawyers, not tin-foilers.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Tin foil, my ass...
If they're always lied to, and have become accustomed to it, why in hell do they -- and Pelosi specifically -- continue to treat this administration as if it were composed of honorable and well-intentioned people? Everybody in the country knows they're lying criminals -- even their supporters. What does it take for this simple concept to penetrate the skulls of the majority party?

As to "working in the dark" about "proofs of what Bush did," I think it's pretty clear that a total domestic electronic surveillance program -- which we were told was an outcome of "the events of 9/11(tm)," but which actually began sometime in February 2001 -- is proof of illegal behavior on the part of both the participating telecoms and the BushCo criminals.

Why is it so damned hard to bust them on this simple fact? IT STARTED IN FEBRUARY 2001 AND IT'S THEREFORE, BY DEFINITION, A FELONY, A CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT CRIMINAL ACTS AND MAYBE A VIOLATION OF THE RICO STATUTES AS WELL.

There was no patriot act to legalize their snooping. There was no constant fear-mongering to get us to gladly give up our rights in return for their protection racket's phony efforts to keep us safe. And shockingly enough, there haven't been any more "terrorist" attacks, at least since BushCo's criminals were able to parlay 9/11 into a full-scale war against the rights of the American people, a war that most of the amazingly stupid shits actually bought into.

Here's the main part of an email I sent to Reyes and the intel committee last night. There are some questions here they should be asking, if they haven't already done so:

Before taking the irrevocable step of allowing this obscenity to prevail, why not ask yourselves for what specific actions is the Bush administration requesting immunity? What is the administration afraid will be revealed if various law suits go forward? If the telecoms were acting as patriots just trying to protect Americans from another act of terrorism -- as Bush comically asserted yesterday -- why were they intercepting Americans' electronic communications as early as February 2001?

Who stands to benefit from immunity and the resulting dismissal of dozens of pending legal actions against these telecoms? Who stands to lose -- besides the American people, the concept of equal justice under the law, and the cause of truth? And why would you even consider bailing out the most unpopular president in US history, one whose most recent approval rating stands at a dismal 19 percent?

FISA has apparently been effective enough to remain the law of the land since 1978. Why is it suddenly alleged to be deficient? And the "terrorism prevention" excuse doesn't wash, given the administration's pattern of ignoring all the evidence that a major attack was imminent prior to 9/11/01.

The frustrations of FBI agents Colleen Rowley of Minneapolis and Kenneth Williams of Phoenix, who were impeded by the FBI and the Bush administration's DoJ in obtaining FISA warrants against Zacarias Moussaoui, do not indicate any problems with FISA as it now exists. Rather, their inability to obtain warrants speaks to problems in the FBI chain of command and Ashcroft's DoJ.

Telecom immunity will not fix these problems; it will, in fact, exacerbate them. Nor will they be corrected by the continuously expanding reach of the NSA into every facet of American citizens' lives, activities that used to be unconstitutional -- and still are, unless the Fourth Amendment, too, has been repealed.


And so on into futility land.


wp

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Did we ever find out what the W's Cabal
wanted to do when they had Ashcroft in the hospital pushing him to sign 'something?' Wasn't 'this' what caused Comey and many others to say they would resign...just walk out of the DoJ?

Did we ever find out what 'that' was?

So many damn crimes, I can't keep them straight in my head anymore.

I am 99% sure that W had 'people' spying on MoveOn members.

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. What we have is a massive obfuscation of evidence and testimony.
Those on the left need to recognize is that "what they KNOW is true" is not admissible evidence!

And, the criminals are in possession of the evidence. And they are all saying what Cheney says!
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Unfortunate you used the "tin-foiler" assertion when this administration has, on record,...
,...proven itself perfectly comfortable with abusing power.

But,..I realize even "representatives" can be as gullible or subject to disbelief and denial as any other human being. They STILL want to deny that this administration is willing and able to abuse power; otherwise, NO representative would question whether or not to further expand the limits on the executive while simultaneously violating Americans' basic rights.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Meanwhile, is is important that Pelosi, et.al, not act like tin-foilers
and that is the point. You prosecute crime when you have evidence in hand, not elusive birds in Bushes.

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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wasn't FISA exclusive? n/t
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I think the military has been behaving under their own rules?? FISA is NSA law.
NSA is the Executive Branch's Foreign Security Apparatus. NIO, CIA, FBI, military intelligence services, national recon office, et.al. are not the same and have different rules.

Who knows how many secret illegal surveillance programs are still hidden?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Yes. Yes it was. It was to be the sole arbiter in matters of National
Security. Everything that is designed to circumvent FISA is, on it's face and by it's very nature. a departure.
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Definition of exclusivity
This law gives Bush authority to do anything he wants. Only this law does it. Bush can't claim authority under any other law to do whatever he wants. That is a limitation on him. :crazy: Jeebus, how dumb do they think we are? :mad:
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yep trying to convince us they're doing the right thing
while screwing us over. Wow I'm shocked.
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