Forcing Psychiatric Drugs Can Increase Violence

[undergroundpanther]

NEWS RELEASE - 4 March 2008 - PsychRights - MindFreedom
Media contacts: Daniel Hazen - 315-528-3385 [e-mail]
Krista Erickson - 541-345-9106 [e-mail]

More info & download PDF of news release:
http://www.mindfreedom.org/shield/psychrights

~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Forcing Psychiatric Drugs Can Increase Violence," Warns
New Task Force on Mental Health Legal Advocacy & Activism

Promising to fight what they call pervasive and harmful violations of
mental health clients who are involuntarily drugged and
electroshocked in the United States, The Law Project for Psychiatric
Rights (PsychRights) and the MindFreedom Shield Campaign announced
today a joint Task Force on Mental Health Legal Advocacy & Activism.
The new partnership of law and nonviolent direct action has an
initial focus in the states of California, Massachusetts and New York.

PsychRights' President Jim Gottstein declared, "People's rights in
forced drugging proceedings are ignored as a matter of course,
resulting in great harm to them and decreased public safety." David
Oaks, Director of MindFreedom International (MFI), noted, "Violence
by a few individuals labeled 'mentally ill' has led to a backlash
calling for a massive increase in forced psychiatric drugging."

Mr. Gottstein added, "Contrary to public perception, forcing people
to take psychiatric drugs can often increase violence, rather than
decrease it. If people were warned that both taking and withdrawing
from these drugs can at times contribute to committing terrible acts,
they and their loved ones can be alert to the possibility and
tragedies averted."

Krista Erickson, MFI board member and Chair of the MFI Shield
Campaign, said, "I'm excited about MFI and PsychRights expanding our
partnership and focusing the combined power of legal advocacy and
activism on specific cases." The MFI Shield Campaign supports the
wishes of a member to be free of involuntary mental health
intervention with an international "Solidarity Network" of advocates.
The new Task Force plans to use both the court of law and the court
of public opinion.

Task Force organizers say the combination of PsychRights' expertise
for strategic litigation and the "people power" of MindFreedom
activists around the country will bring a synergy and geographic
reach to their demands for people’s legal and human rights. Daniel
Hazen, Northeast Coordinator with PsychRights, added, "In the United
States the 'mental health' industry is a labeling system that often
dismisses self- determination, legal capacity and alternatives.
'Treatment' can be forced through the court systems. People ought to
'have their day in court' but this is often far from what actually
occurs."

MFI is an independent nonprofit coalition defending human rights and
promoting humane alternatives in mental health. The Law Project for
Psychiatric Rights is a public interest law firm devoted to the
defense of people facing what they call the "horrors of unwarranted
forced psychiatric drugging and other forced psychiatric procedures."
PsychRights office is in Anchorage, Alaska: http://
www.psychrights.org. The MFI office is in Eugene, Oregon: http://
www.mindfreedom.org

# # #

~~~~~~~~~~~~

ACTION:

Please forward this to all appropriate places on & off Internet.

Download PDF of News Release, photocopy & distribute, click here:
http://www.mindfreedom.org/shield/psychrights

Sign up for MFI Shield, and see list of public participants:
http://www.mindfreedom.org/shield

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Build united strength in numbers!

JOIN MINDFREEDOM INTERNATIONAL!

http://www.mindfreedom.org/join-donate

* Win human rights campaigns in mental health.
* End abuse by the psychiatric drug industry.
* Support self-determination of psychiatric survivors.
* Promote safe, humane, effective options in mental health.
* Show your MAD PRIDE!

MindFreedom is a nonprofit human rights group that unites 100 sponsor
and affiliate groups with individual members.

MindFreedom is one of the very few totally independent activist
groups in the mental health field with no funding from governments,
drug companies, religions, corporations, or the mental health system.

All human rights supporters are invited to join MFI by donating here:

http://www.mindfreedom.org/join-donate

For hard-to-find books and gear go to MFI's ALL NEW Mad Market here:

http://www.madmarket.org

MindFreedom International Office:

454 Willamette, Suite 216 - POB 11284; Eugene, OR 97440-3484 USA

web site: http://www.mindfreedom.org
e-mail: office(at)mindfreedom(dot)org
MFI office phone: [phone]
MFI member services toll free: 1-877-MAD-PRIDe or 1-877-623-7743
fax: [phone]

Please forward.

A few more links I have added to this forward on this topic :
http://psychrights.org/force_of_law.htm
http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/mental-health-abuse/force/outpatient/michael-allen-npr/
http://hymes.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/forced-psychiatric-drugging-is-dangerous/
http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1480.shtml
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2004/06/23/bush_to_impose_psychiatric_drug_regime.htm
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/drugs.htm

And a Quote:


"The individual may think that the most important reality is his own existence, but this is only his personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective.


Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal.

We must electronically control the brain. Someday armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain."

Dr José Delgado,Director of Neuropsychiatry Yale University Medical School Congressional Record,No. 26, Vol. 118 February 24, 1974

( Delgado,is another"professional" control freak fucking psychopath piece of shit IMHO..) Instead of electronic control, today Bush loves the idea of drugging us, to control us,and big pharma rakes in profit at the same time..Ugh.

[TZ]

1. I will once again remind you

Of the dangers of schizophrenics who go off their meds: See Va Tech Shooter. Schizophrenics who are paranoid and delusional are violent and a danger to society. Would you rather them mass shoot people? Or lock them up for the rest of their lives? Many of them can lead quite nice lives when they are appropriately treated.
I will also remind you of the many people (including several of my relatives) whose lives were saved by medications.
YOU DO THE MENTALLY ILL NO FAVORS BY ENCOURAGING THEIR PARANOIA AND DISTRUST OF PROVEN, EFFECTIVE TREATMENT.

[walldude]

3. Yup, I do think that many people are over medicated

and some kids are mis-diagnosed but many people, schizophrenics, bi-polar, depression, these are all real diseases and all treatable with the right meds. Need to be careful about who we are telling to get off their medications.

[undergroundpanther]

17. It is the person's choice what they do

about their meds. I wouldn't want anyone to force me on anti psychotics. That shit does nothing for me because I have PSTD,yet as an adolescent they forced them into me and damage was done.
I want people to be aware!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. But if they have a right to choose wheather or not to take meds, should they then be made fully

accountable for their actions? Or can they plead insanity?

[undergroundpanther]

8. Bio psych is NOT PROVEN

EFFECTIVE. Sorry.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2002/07/disorders.html

Instead, from 1987 until the present, we saw an increase in the number of mentally disabled people from 3.3 million people to 5.7 million people in the United States. In that time, our spending on psychiatric drugs increased to an amazing degree. Combined spending on antipsychotic drugs and antidepressants jumped from around $500 million in 1986 to nearly $20 billion in 2004. So we raise the question: Is the use of these drugs somehow actually fueling this increase in the number of the disabled mentally ill?

The theory was that people with schizophrenia had overactive dopamine systems; and these drugs, by blocking dopamine in the brain, fixed that chemical imbalance. Therefore, you get the metaphor that they're like insulin is for diabetes; they're fixing an abnormality. With the antidepressants, the theory was that people with depression had too low levels of serotonin; the drugs upped the levels of serotonin in the brain and therefore they're balancing the brain chemistry.

First of all, those theories never arose from investigations into what was actually happening to people. Rather, they would find out that antipsychotics blocked dopamine and so they theorized that people had overactive dopamine systems. Same with the antidepressants. They found that antidepressants upped the levels of serotonin; therefore, they theorized that people with depression must have low levels of serotonin.

But here is the thing that one wishes all of America would know and wishes psychiatry would come clean on: They've never been able to find that people with schizophrenia have overactive dopamine systems. They've never been able to find that people with depression have underactive serotonin systems. They've never found consistently that any of these disorders are associated with any chemical imbalance in the brain. The story that people with mental disorders have known chemical imbalances -- that's a lie. We don't know that at all. It's just something that they say to help sell the drugs and help sell the biological model of mental disorders.
http://www.thestreetspirit.org/August2005/interview.htm

And that is why drug companies pushing anti depressants on TV cannot claim thier drugs act to block seritonin or dopamine anymore as if it cures mental illness..A lawsuit got them on FALSE ADVERTIZING!!

These drug makers and marketers lie .
http://www.outlookcities.com/psych/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/thehealthnews.html?in_article_id=518669&in_page_id=1797
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E6DB123CF937A1575BC0A9649C8B63

[bobbolink]

18. Many years ago, an HONEST shrink told me he could say the exact day and time the decision

was made to back the drugs.

It was the annual convention of shrinks, and they were all worried because the social workers and psychologists were taking their business because they could charge less -- didn't have all the education expenses.

SO.. the shrinks decided at their convention to go for the drugs, because they were the only ones who could prescribe.

I'm sure the pharmcos were happy with that decision.

And now what we have is more illness, more unhappiness, more ruined lives, more torture. YES, TORTURE!

What some have been put through is nothing short of TORTURE, but it isn't a popular cause with liberals.

:cry:

:argh:

[undergroundpanther]

16. psychopaths are NOT insane

Schizophrenics are NOT psychopaths.Schizophrenics have a conscience. Psychopaths do NOT. Restrict and force drugs on the psychopaths.Keep them away from others,keep them out of power,do not let them grow rich.
The schizophrenics are who they are, and most hurt no one.

But one psychopath can ruin many lives and traumatize many people and never be caught by police and noticed as dangerous by shrinks..

[Warpy]

2. Yes, we must preserve their freedom

to die on the street, alone and terrified, after they get released from jail.

[undergroundpanther]

14. I wish

there was a non authoritarian community waiting to nourish them when people come out of the horrors of the psych wards.
But no, instead we get monitored drugged and stigmatized.
After awhile the process it begins to change you to the point you stop caring because no one cares anyway..
To be a mental patient is to be stigmatized, ostracized, socialized, patronized, psychiatrized.

To be a mental patient is to have everyone controlling your life but you. You’re watched by your shrink, your social worker, your friends, your family. And then you’re diagnosed as paranoid.

To be a mental patient is to live with the constant threat and possibility of being locked up at any time, for almost any reason.

To be a mental patient is to live on $82 a month in food stamps, which won’t let you buy Kleenex to dry your tears. And to watch your shrink come back to his office from lunch, driving a Mercedes Benz.

To be a mental patient is to take drugs that dull your mind, deaden your senses, make you jitter and drool and then you take more drugs to lessen the “side effects.”

To be a mental patient is to apply for jobs and lie about the last few months or years, because you’ve been in the hospital, and then you don’t get the job anyway because you’re a mental patient. To be a mental patient is not to matter.

To be a mental patient is never to be taken seriously.

To be a mental patient is to be a resident of a ghetto, surrounded by other mental patients who are as scared and hungry and bored and broke as you are.

To be a mental patient is to watch TV and see how violent and dangerous and dumb and incompetent and crazy you are.

To be a mental patient is to be a statistic.

To be a mental patient is to wear a label, and that label never goes away, a label that says little about what you are and even less about who you are.

To be a mental patient is to never to say what you mean, but to sound like you mean what you say.

To be a mental patient is to tell your psychiatrist he’s helping you, even if he is not.

To be a mental patient is to act glad when you’re sad and calm when you’re mad, and to always be “appropriate.”

To be a mental patient is to participate in stupid groups that call themselves therapy. Music isn’t music, its therapy; volleyball isn’t sport, it’s therapy; sewing is therapy; washing dishes is therapy. Even the air you breathe is therapy and that’s called “the milieu.”

To be a mental patient is not to die, even if you want to — and not cry, and not hurt, and not be scared, and not be angry, and not be vulnerable, and not to laugh too loud — because, if you do, you only prove that you are a mental patient even if you are not.

And so you become a no-thing, in a no-world, and you are not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=276x3897

http://www.treatmentonline.com/treatments.php?id=1349
http://stti.confex.com/stti/congrs07/techprogram/paper_32545.htm

[Warpy]

24. I could say much the same things about my physical illness

which has made me an uninsurable nonperson in this country for the past 20 years.

This country is unforgiving of imperfection and cruel to everyone who doesn't fit the perfect mold.

[EFerrari]

4. Doing nothing can also increase violence and everything in between.

As someone who had her head held over an open fire by a freaking out person off of their meds, I don't think this argument is the safe way to go.

I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything.

And, there are times when our brains don't help us and when other brains need to step up and help out.

My vote is for more eyes on the situation. Oversight -- community involvement, team building, law enforcement education.

[undergroundpanther]

9. My vote is for people

to not be locked up and pushed and abused,and forced,and mistreated.
Our society is sick.Psychiatry/psychology focuses on the individual and it has not worked.Psychiatry needs to go beyond the individual.


Emancipation refers to people's abilities to pursue their ends in life without oppressive restrictions. Psychology needs an emancipatory orientation as much as society needs an emancipatory psychology. To develop an emancipatory psychology I propose three sets of complementary human, moral, and political values. Human values inform conceptions of the good life and the good society, whereas moral principles help us resolve conflict among competing values. Political values, in turn, clarify the role of oppression and power structures in the pursuit of emancipation. Following a discussion of these values I examine their application in six scenarios involving psychologists.
http://www.radpsynet.org/docs/pril-human.html

. To speak of mental pain in transcendent terms might help describe the pain, but a description of the pain doesn't explain how it got there. This was a mistake which prevented Laing from establishing a permanent opposition to the psychiatric establishing.

If we can build an opposition that uses discipline to ferret out myths about mental illness that linger from the general population, the psychiatric survivor movement will have achieved what the psychiatric establishment has failed to do, which is to liberate the sufferer from the authoritarianism which severely restricts the imagination of the general public. The public does not change through the mechanisms of democratic consensus-building, but through the economic authorities that affect their bank accounts. In the view of the public, individuals who are unable to care for themselves, economically, are thought to be either malingerers or "sick". So it is necessary to understand the error of the psychiatric myth of mental illness by understanding what this economic "sickness" is to the public
http://www.radpsynet.org/docs/pain.html

But in order to avoid conflict between private and social interests we need a third set of values, we need relational values. Values such as collaboration, consultation, and respect for diversity are essential for peaceful co-existence. Otherwise, the interests of powerful groups will always prevail over the needs of less powerful citizens.
http://www.radpsynet.org/docs/pril-children.html#Abuse

[ljm2002]

5. Judging by the replies so far...

...I'd say they have an uphill battle on their hands.

It is too bad that whenever we try and discuss policy issues, some people insist on putting the issue in black and white terms. In this case, people seem to think that if you are against forced medication, then you are against the medications period.

Personally I see it as a difficult issue. Certainly, there are many cases where a mentally ill person is forced onto medication by their family, and it ends up helping them immensely. But there are also cases where this ability to force people to be drugged is abused. Many mental institutions, for example, routinely drug their "patients" as a means of control. And sometimes people get put in mental institutions who should not be. Once they have been "diagnosed", it is often impossible for them to prove their sanity -- anything they do other than acquiesce is viewed as recalcitrance or defiance. Not to mention -- and this is probably far more common -- non-violent, non-schizophrenic types who are forced to take medication "for their own good". Now maybe the medication would help, but who has that kind of authority over another person, apart from parents over their children? Who should have that kind of authority? I certainly do not want the state telling me I have to take some pharmaceutical or another. And lest we forget, that was one of the documented abused of the old Soviet system -- forcing political dissidents into mental institutions, where they had no recourse, and medicating them.

And that is why it is such a difficult issue. It's just like our other civil rights -- it's a balancing act between our personal liberty and the obligation of the state to provide for public safety. I definitely draw the line at *forcing* people to do something "for their own good" if they are not a threat to others.

For the record: I have taken anti-depressants in the past. They helped immensely. However, I did have real problems that contributed to the depressions. I finally found a good therapist who agreed to help me sort through issues and that we would try to keep me off any meds, unless it became apparent that I really needed them (if I became suicidal as I had in the past). I never needed them again. But I am not "against" them.

[undergroundpanther]

10. Meds should not be forced

Unless the one ordering the forced drugs takes them them self.
If a drug helps fine take it. But a person should never be FORCED.
All the people who are fearful, imagine if someone thought YOU looked crazy and FORCED YOU to take drugs that could harm you.Would YOU like it?I think not. So why should those other people be forced what kind of fascist rationale or fear based bigotry will be pulled out of an ass to justify that end?





THE RIGHT TO BE AT RISK

by Joseph H. Berke

What is a risk? Well, it is usually seen as any action or potential action that may serve as a threat or danger to life and limb, for oneself or to another. ‘Risk’ carries a negative connotation. Something ‘bad’ may happen.

In a larger sense, ‘risk’ refers to a change of state or status. This may be positive or negative. Really, we are talking about the process of being alive.

Risk is part of life. No risk, no life. Moreover it is an interpersonal process. It has to be. We are all part of a social field. A ripple here entails a ripple there, even at the far end of the universe. Risk is a ripple in the interpersonal field.

Since I have long worked in the field of psychiatry, or anti-psychiatry, as RD Laing and David Cooper used to say, these remarks are an introduction to focussing on these very same issues as they affect people who get themselves diagnosed as mental patients and others who have to deal with them. These are a legion of mental health professionals and unprofessionals. I would include among the latter category editors and writers for newspapers who ‘make a killing’ selling scare stories about schizophrenics.
http://www.human-nature.com/free-associations/risk.html

[Two Americas]

20. black and white

Human rights is black and white. One is free from the domineering control of another, or one is not.

"Things are not black and white" is a way for hidden agendas to sneak into the picture, that is all. "You may think I am fucking you over, but things are not black and white."

Things shouldn't be black and white, that is true. But it is always those who say "things are not black and white" who insist on absolute black and white answers - their answers - being forced on others.

People who are powerless never lecture the powerful with this "things are not black and white" argument, it is always those with power or those advocating for those with power who say this. Things are very much black and white for those with power, it is just when people resist bullying and domination that they are told not to look at things as black and white.

[bobbolink]

6. So frightening... Russia in the US!!!

The only reason this is allowed to continue is because muddleclass people think they are safe and immune... "Can't happen to me.."

Russian, here we come....

:cry:

[undergroundpanther]

11. No, the muddleclass is Skeered

Scared to risk,scared to change,scared to lose,scared to offend authority ,scared of feeling,scared of sharing,scared of life they cannot predict,control or manage,scared by anything that is not like themselves or in a economically "higher "class they desire to emulate..
I would rather die than be "middle class" I can't stand the shallow comfort seeking scaredy mainstream where every sharp edge has a safe-t- bumper to make sure all are protected from scary reality..
Where no one really lives or 'gets' the meaning of freedom or consequences and no one grows wiser via experince .

Finally life involves the need, I would say the right, to be at risk. Otherwise there would be no maturation, no invention, no excitement, no passion, no change.

In nineteenth-century America slaves had a tendency to run away from their owners. This risk also carried a psychiatric diagnosis, ‘drapetomania’. So slaves who absconded were not seen as men trying to be free, but as mentally sick, irresponsible entities. This labelling process, which preceded DSM-4 by a long time, was a nifty form of invalidation, making a mental invalid out of a social in-valid.
http://www.human-nature.com/free-associations/risk.html
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2007/07/habitat_for_hipocrisy.html

[blues90]

7. It's a very touchy subject .

I can only speak for myself with meds for anxiety and panic attacks which brought me to depression .

When I had insurance one thing that was difficult was the place I worked changing insurance companies each year shopping for lower prices .

I had quite a few shrinks and went through different sorts of treatments . They all involved some sort of drug the first was Xanex , I was never told how difficult it was to get off this drug . I found I reached a max over time where I was able to deal , four .5 mg per day .

The next shrink decided to put me on celexa and valium and I was not ready after tha Xanex experience to take anything new but did . The celexa left me numb like my mind was in a box with no way out and no way to tap into emotion .

I have been through paxil and lexapro and all did much the same , lexapro would have lead to my killing myself .

I was at my same last shrink on my dime and told her and she just wrote a script for celexa again . I have been on valium for years just so I can breath through the panic attacks .

I feel the problems steam from many sources , it's a 30 minute talk and the prescription pad comes out and you are on your own and the shrinks I have had do not listen . I had one out of 10 that did and I was making progress until the insurance changed , he was even willing to see me for the co-pay even after the limit of 10 visits per year ran dry . He saw I reached the magic number 10 then paused and said , oh what the hell just pay the co-pay and keep coming back .

I can't tell who I am a lot of the time now days , I know I am not dangerous to anyone other than myself and let me tell you , that's one hell of a horrible place to be .

I can't count the number of times I ran out of stores in a panic or made it to the checkout line only to leave the cart just to get the hell out of the store and I have no control of when this will happen .


Just typing this alone brings on panic , just thinking about it does .

[bobbolink]

12. "you are on your own and the shrinks I have had do not listen "

That is the size of it, and it is VERY Sad!

I"m so sorry to know you are suffering in this way! You have added so much to so many discussions, and I appreciate your bravery!

Thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing your pain with us!

:hug: :yourock: :hug:

[blues90]

22. well , thank you >

Most all my posts which I know do piss off many people to some point are a battle in themselves just to post . I have to stop and steady my hands and go back and re-type things since I seem to spell some words with letters reversed .

I do wish I had more positive things to say or add on almost all issues I see here .

I suppose what gets me the most is I can't handle anything that is not right up front the truth , even if it burns or hurts . I just can't kid myself about the reality we face in this world , I fight everyday just to be honest with myself and many times I don't like what I see or what I used to believe was important .

[bobbolink]

38. I admire you for all your efforts, and for being so honest with us about what it costs you!

"I do wish I had more positive things to say or add on almost all issues I see here ."

We're really effectively taught to ignore the reality, and speak of sunshine and roses, aren't we?

sigh.... as a friend of mine used to call it... "pumping rainbows". :hi:

We NEED people like you to tell us how it is... YOU are paying the price for being the conscience of our society, and of DU!

Your username should be "jiminy cricket". :hi:

:hug:

[undergroundpanther]

13. Yeah that must suck.

But than again could the panic be telling you something?

I dunno,sometimes when I panic I just basically go through it,feel it and try to figure out why? Sometimes feeling through it you can get to what it means.What it is "saying".

Not all the time I can do it,but I try to do this searching and feeling process as much as I can ,and I found I panic alot less when I ride the wave, so to speak,after all it is only emotion,painful but it cannot kill you,unless you are convinced it can.I began to listen to the panic and try to hear what it is saying,instead of suppressing it.

It's strange how our fear based society and marketers for drugs try to claim any uncomfortable feelings are bad or a symptom of being crazy. They are not always crazy or in need of being drugged away,sometimes the bad feeling exists for a reason,and ten minutes with a shrink with a scrip pad won't help you figure that out.

Sometimes you gotta feel the fear and do it anyway if you want to understand the things that lurk inside your own mind,things that are not always nice,but they can teach you alot about yourself..It's not easy to do,sometimes it seems futile, it will not feel good,in fact it's painful and it's exhausting,but in the long run for me at least it has been worth it to change the way I relate to myself,and listen and feel what is inside my mind ..sometimes.
I wish you to overcome the panic inside and find what gives you happiness someday.

[bobbolink]

15. You're an amazing person, undergroundpanther! With all the forces against you,

you have chosen to listen to yourself, and find the truth of your own being!

:applause: :loveya: :applause:

IN today's society, that is an act of bravery!

I've had the same experience... one of those experiences was just obsessing on something to the point where I thought I"d lose what was left of my mind.

Finally, in anger and desperation, I shouted, "What do you want???" and this little child voice said, "Pay attention to me."

Well, that did it.... I melted, and shed a few tears, and the obsession was gone.

We're taught the opposite of health.. to ignore ourselves and to actually bully ourselves.

PAH!!

[blues90]

19. I understand completely what you are saying

I have really tried to understand what is happening when these attacks come on . I know I will not die from them and I have even dared them to go ahead and take me , I'm sick of it .

Most times the more I try to relax and go with it then another new symtom crops in there to hit me in another way , sometimes to the point of making me physically ill or the shelves in a store begin to move and shift . I have tried the paper bag thing to help with breathing .

I have been battling this since 1986 when it first hit out of nowhere . I find out years later that unknown to me my younger brother who is no longer alive and my father also gone and my older sisters second child dealt or deals with this same thing .

Somehow I have not been able to reason past this , I just ride it out until they pass and try to breath through it .

[bobbolink]

27. No, I don't think you can "reason past" ANY of these and related issues.

We can't use left-brain solutions for right-brain processes!

I salute you for all your efforts!

:patriot:

[dajoki]

36. That is my problem...

I try to "battle" through panic attacks, especially when I'm out of meds. That coupled with my "physical ailments", again, when out of meds, makes life miserable at times. But thanks to YOU Bobbie, I am learning!!:hug:

[bobbolink]

37. Men have usually been trained in this society to avoid emotions, and deal with everything from the

left brain.

Since what you're dealing with (not the physical!) is RIGHT-brain, that approach doesn't work.

You were given the wrong training, and I admire your efforts to try to correct that!

(should I be snarky, and add.. "especially at your age, gramps!" ?)

:evilgrin:

You don't deserve all the pain you're dealing with, my friend!

:hug: :loveya: :hug:

[Two Americas]

21. very courageous

You are very courageous, and compassionate, as well as brilliantly insightful. I admire the posts you are making here very much. Thank you.

[iamthebandfanman]

34. celexa

has alot of side effects.

it was a brand new drug when i was put on it.
it made me yawn non-stop all day long... and not a normal yawn...it was like i could feel all my energy leave threw it. lol.
i stopped taking it.

all anti-depressants are myths.

that xanax and valium is the real deal tho ;)

i highly suggest staying away from anti-depressants, especially for your problem(anxiety).

[blues90]

35. I'm not filling the celexa >

I know what these sorts of so called anti- depressents do to my head . If anything they strip away any sort of creativity you have . I felt like my mind was in a box and I had no way of reaching in there to pull myself out . The downs got worse and any hope for the up's was gone .

I was talking to a friend of 45 years who lives outside of Chicago and he said I did not sound the same or talk abouth the smae things and my sarcastic sense of humor was dried up . I did not realize it was noticable by others .

Xanax does the best job of fending off panic attacks and once you are used to them you can function it's getting off of them that is the issue I had . Valium allowed me to at least function and if you miss a dose you are not alarmed like Xanax which tells you when it hs gone away in no un-certain way .

None of these now work well enough to over come the panic or anxiety . The valium just keeps me from leaping out of my skin and gives me the extra few minutes needed to deal with standing in a line or getting out the door to toss out the trash without turning back to try again later .

Now that anyone who is on meds is in some computer system I have to wonder if this has had an effect on me getting a job . don't want some nut case working here sort of thing since they can access your info .

I do know being 59 does not help either nore do the employment gaps I have had in the past 3 years , before that i had no gaps .

Once I was in the process of getting off xanax the panic attacks were ten fold and I was stuck in a fog for weeks .

I am just so tired of dealing with my shaking hands and the rubber legs deal while walking or standing , and so tired of freaking out when out in public where these days around here people seem to walk around in a bubble and don't even notice you or anyone else .

I would probably do well in a commune where I would be able to do the things required to help out and work at my own pace and create and come up with ideas on how to make things work better .

I have a natural ability with wood working and design and many other usefull things . I can build anything without a model or plan . All I need is a reason to care .

[bobbolink]

39. Ohhh, I wish your voice was heard!! What you are saying is sooo important, and

so many who parrot the "get help", "get meds" crap NEED to hear what you are saying!!

Thank you so very much for having the courage to share this with us!

This is soooo important!

:hug:

[LeftyMom]

23. Is that a $cientology front group or something? So much hate for mental health care and so much BS.

It's damn near impossible to get a court order to get somebody to take their meds. Hell, my crazy ass ex tried to kill me twice, and he never even got taken in for a 48 hour hold, let alone mandated treatment.

People don't get put onto mandatory psych meds unless they're incapable of making their own medical decisions because of their illness. Generally, the system is far too reluctant to step in, and a lot of people wind up sleeping on the streets and talking to themselves because some uncaring jackass decided that was better (cheaper) than making sure they take the medication that keeps them within shouting distance of sanity.

You don't have a right to be crazy when your craziness threatens yourself and others.

[Midlodemocrat]

25. Exactly. Some states don't even HAVE a mandatory hold until someone

actually does something to themselves or someone else. Other states don't require hospitalization for suicide attempts.

In most cases, you have to be seriously mentally ill and dangerous to be forced to take your medications. And, generally, those people are such a danger to themselves and society, it's the only way to protect society as a whole.

This entire argument against medicating the mentally ill is so fucking stupid, I don't know where to begin.

[undergroundpanther]

26. And sometimes fear dictates too much

And fear interferes with others lives more often than not.
And no Mind freedom is not connected with $cientology in any way.They SUED $cientology for using mind freedom articles on their anti psychiatry propaganda sites and WON.. I hate $cientology. Nothing but a fucking destructive cult of thieves.

don't forgive or forget.

[bobbolink]

29. Don't you love when you post the truth about psychiatry as practiced today

you are always accused of being a $cientologist?

Too bad it's so hard to listen and reason any more...

:shrug:

[bobbolink]

28. "People don't get put onto mandatory psych meds unless they're incapable of making their own medical

I'm going to paraphrase Mitch Snyder here: Believing this may help you deal with it, but it bears little resemblance to the truth.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iamthebandfanman]

30. ive been on Neurontin for over a year

does that mean i dont think for myself?

lol

want to know what drugs make you violent ? look into pain killers.

[lonestarnot]

32. K & R

Bookmarking.