Are you Optimistic in regards to America's future for the next 5 years?

[bryant69]

Or do you think we are pretty screwed?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Greyskye]

1. really?

Folks are that pessimistic, even with the odds in favor of getting a Dem in the White House?

Wow.

[tom_paine]

3. You're joking, right? Where have you been these last seven years?

You think the odds are in favor of a Democrat attaining the Imperial Throne?

Voter ID. Ohio 2004, 2006. Florida 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006. ESPECIALLY 2006 when the Bushies were caught red-handed in the FL-13 Jennings vs. Buchanan theft and OUR OWN DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP helped close down the investigation and sweep it under the rug, never to see the light of day.

Control of the MSM, which will likely do what it has done for quite some time now, which is to transcribe the RNC Talking Points and regurgitate them as "Fair and balanced" reporting. The decimation of the very concept of lies and truth in the Empire. There are no such things, anymore, just those with the loudest megaphone to be heard above the cacophony.

Hell, even supposedly "liberal" bastion like the New York Times often churn out stories which are framed in identical ways to the way the German Media framed Adolph Hitler. No exaggeration. Don't believe me?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2979597

Don't blame the messenger because reality sucks. And don't misconstrue me. I am not saying that people shouldn't vote. For one thing, I might be wrong about this, though I doubt it. For another, at this late date, overwhelming the thefts with honest votes is the only possibility (admittedly very minute) we can dare entertain.

But let us not have illusions about where and when we live. We live in a country that fundamentally, especially after you strip away the bullshit and fake window dressing, is no different from Putin's Russia or Communist China now.

THAT is the reality, and most DUers recognize it.

Can't you see it? Can't you feel it on the wind, in the air, which is what the False Reality Bubble of the Bushies is, so much a part of our environment and "conventional wisdom" that it is the air we breathe?

Again I apologize for reality, what's left of it. But we do ourselves no service by ignoring it or by slipping into the Bushie False Reality Bubble that has been woven for us to neutralize us and pacify us.

[bryant69]

4. Anybody who is optimistic in 2008 is probably a Secret Freeper

Or totally deluded.

It needed to be said.

[tom_paine]

5. Oh, puh-leeze! Way to add nothing to the conversation. Nice snark, though.

In truth, we need optimism as much as we need realism and yes, pessimism, too. It takes all kinds to make a healthy society.

But why have I wasted my time trying to respond to a sneering snark?

:crazy:

[bryant69]

7. I can't really answer that question. Maybe because you knew you went to far out on limb

in your post? n/t

[tom_paine]

14. LOL. No. Reality is reality. Just wait until pResident McCain's "miraculous upset victory".

Though I am sure even then you will not budge from your own overextended Coincidence Theory treelimb.

"Plausible Deniability" is and always has been the mother's milk of tyrants of all stripes. Why? For you, bryant, and the millions and millions like you who have looked into tyranny's face and turned away, saying, "This can't be happening. It's not possible. People wouldn't do that."

All for you. Now, examine your navel some more, read coincidence into every piece of "plausible deniability" the tyrants leave for you. 10 coincidences. 100 coincidences. 1000 coincidences. It makes no difference. So what if the coin flips heads 1000 times? People wouldn't use weighted coins, so it's just a coincidence.

Sorry, bryant, the poll says it all. Thanks for posting it.

[bryant69]

15. I've already examined my navel enough. Frankly it's not that interesting. n/t

[tom_paine]

16. Never an intelligent comment when some nonsense will do, eh?

Good to see some things never change, bryant.

[bryant69]

17. There's not much to say

I can point to things like Democrats Retaking Congress, or the string of Republican Scandals, the departure of Rove and Rumsfeld, and so on, which kind of paint a different picture. But you probably already know about such things and don't see them as indicative of a more complicated picture.

Bryant

[tom_paine]

19. The picture is complicated alright, on this we agree.

I just see it as the peculiarity of a nation mid-way in transition between being a constitutional republic/representative democracy and whatever the New Totalitarianism that combines the capitalist economy with elements of communist/fascist controls updated to reflect the awesome power that media saturation affords, as well as the vastly increased power of advertising, marketing, psychology and PR as it relates to manipulation of large populations.

One foot in one world, one foot in the other. Remember, even in the brutal and simpler Age of Rome, the Caesars did not disband the Senate because the central myth of the Roman Republic was that they were the freest people in the world, who had won that freedom by throwing off tyrannical kings (the Tarquins) and who could NEVER be re-enslaved because of it.

Sound familiar? Sound like another central myth of another Republic turned Empire?

Where the remnants of Old America (and there are still quite a few of them around) exist, sometimes things happen as they would have in the days of Old America. But those are being erased as quickly as is possible and convenient, the same way the Caesars did to Rome.

Finally, you speak of the Democrats retaking Congress. And yet, Gonzales perjured himself a dozen times on video tape and with impunity, even being contradicted on videotape by the Director of the FBI, and yet he walks free. You and I know he will continue to walk free, in spite of his serial 100% demonstrable perjuries, uttered with shameless impunity?

Is this the characteristic of a Free Nation?

Or how about said Democratic Congress capitulating on item after item, in spite of the Emperor/pResident's 19-30% approval rating? Why is he treated with the deference of an Old American President that would have only been given if that President had a 60-80% approval rating.

Why do, even after we control Congress, significant votes on Democratic Bills or Amendments require 60 votes, but Bushie bills and amendments require only 50 votes? (spare me procedural discussions on the filibuster...I am speaking of larger issues than procedure here)

Is this the characteristic of a Free Nation?

I could go on, but suffice it to say I will agree with you that the situation is complicated. The Old American Republic was a complicated thing, dismantling it has been equally complicated.

Easing the transition of a people who's central myth is freedom into self-acceptance of tyranny is a complicated, as the Caesars could tell you.

Yes, it is complicated and fraught with Plausible Deniability. I do agree with you on that.

But as time marches on and the window-dressing becomes less and less necessary for the self-acceptance of the New Totalitarian Tyranny as practiced here, in Russia and China (they already accept it because Russia and China's tradition starts off as acceptance of tyranny, but not ours), things will become even more obvious.

It is still possible that the Old American Republic, along with it's ideals and values, will be restored, but with things gone so far it is not likely. Thus, people's overwhelming pessimism in spite of the fact that our TVs tell us otherwise.

But our TVs are in the business of selling us product, and in this case, the product is the self-acceptance of tyranny pretending to be freedom.

[rurallib]

2. Thoughts of moving out are crossing my mind.

[independentpiney]

6. Neither optimistic or pessimistic

I'm Buddhist.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. I'm too much of a cynic to be optimistic or pessimistic.

"There is no safety in the cosmos." - Alan Watts

[LSdemocrat]

9. Ask me again in January 2009.

[devilgrrl]

10. Not at all.

eom

[Sub Atomic]

11. Count me among the 'somewhat pessimistic' crowd.

Watching what's happening to the housing market and the associated financial downfalls in the banking industry cause me great concern.

The economy (realistically) is already in a recession, yet the 'official' numbers don't quite indicate that.

The dollar is at historic lows. Oil/gasoline are at historic highs.

Inflation is rearing its ugly head with no associated economic growth, e.g. stagflation.

Regardless of whomever is elected as the next president, I fear that the continued ramifications of the Little Boots' presidency are going to drag this great country further and further into a deep recession.

I remember the 70s. I remember gas rationing. I remember runaway inflation and massive unemployment.

I only hope that we don't go that far down.

[RedCappedBandit]

12. I doubt i'll live the majority of my adult life in this country.

Way too conservative for me.
Even the "Democrats"

[bryant69]

13. Hmmmm "Democrats"

I guess you feel like that's not an accurate description of them? What would be?

Bryant

[Hawkowl]

18. Very Optimistic

As the sole voter for very optimistic so far, I must qualify that statement with "assuming Obama" wins the presidency. Otherwise I would be slightly pessimistic. I believe the economic and political problems can be turned around in 5 years--not completely solved but the ship can be righted and prevented from sinking.

Look what has been accomplished in 5 years! The winning of WWII. Putting a man on the moon! What about the inception and growth of the internet? The collapse of the USSR and the emancipation of Eastern Europe! C'mon people work with me here!

I'm not accustomed to being a cheerleader, but to quote Sir Winston Churchill: "For myself I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else".