What lead to the First Revolutionary War? And is it time to wonder

[truedelphi]

What would need to happen for a second?

I fell asleep last night in the throes of a book, one that I swiped out of a garbage dumpster behind the main library in San Rafael.

Its title is "From History to Revolution" and was authored by Pauline Maier.

Several things struck me about the mid 1700's history that Maier is describing. One is how articulate and intellectually aware so many of the Colonists were. They were steeped in history of the distant past. They were familiar with the great thinkers of Greek and Roman times. They understood all the pivotal events of the homeland's history - what happened to bring the Magna Carta into effect, every King and every Civil War, every revolution and rebellion occurring in "Jolly Ol' England."

It was impossible to not contrast that awareness with the lack of any semblance of scholarliness in this country. The average twenty-five year old knows very little even about Vietnam era happenings, let alone what occurred during the times of William Jennings Bryan, or Abe Lincoln or George Washington.

The Colonists first and foremost wanted a reconciliation with England - a reconciliation that would occur AFTER the King realized how misled he had been by his advisors. (Circa 1768) But by 1774, the Colonists now blamed the King directly.

Big issue of the time leading up to 1775:
The Colonial leaders, of whom there are too many to list names, were concerned also about rebellion vs. revolution. Rebellion was, as they saw it, an unlawful riotous state of affairs, justified by no law or laws. Revolution, on the other hand, was a series of acts that was justified by Law or laws, if only that single Law inherent inside those rights deemed to be given by the Creator to all his human creations.

There is constant reference in the book as to how the King of England was blind to the basic premises contained inside the English Constitution. And how appeal after appeal led only to his steadfast and stubborn refusal to treat the Colonists with the respect that the English Constitution supposedly offered them in protection from a Tyrant's demands.

One of the leading arguments for a revolution against the King was his infractions and disrespect of the English Constitution.

TO the Colonists, the moment that the list of grievances became insurmountable with regards to their consideration and need for dignity as a people, they felt revolution to be necessary.

SO where are we at right now? We are all in agreement as to the unconstitutionality of this Administration. But what say We, about the lack of respect that so many in Congress demonstrate in terms of respecting our Constitution. When even John Conyers will not consider Impeachment to be on the table, as he refers to the needs of the Democratic Party in getting through this election cycle unscathed from Big Media's clamp on legislators, and the horrific scandal that Big Media would provoke should Congress actually attempt to do its morally-bound job, then what say We to this entirely sad state of affairs??

As it stands now, We the People are acquiescing to Tyranny. And a Tyranny that exists on all levels - economic, educational, religious, cultural.

####################################################

[annabanana]

1. For there to be a "second revolution" we would have to resort

to 18th Century means of communication. Everything but carrier pigeons are intercepted now.

[Zorra]

8. That can be changed; this problem is its own solution.

Cryptic, I know, but if you think about it awhile you might get what I mean.

[WDIM]

2. Economic Hardship like in the 30s

I believe would lead to some sort of a revolution if not a rebellion of the people. I don't think our country would survive those hard times again at least not in its current state. But, you're right people aren't educated enough. in the 1700s all they could do was work or read. To many distractions now. to many shiny things drawing our attention away from the real problems. For a modern day revolution or overthrow of the government people would have to be starving in the streets. Beyond that I think we are too complacent in our own little lives to worry about the goings on in DC.

[margotb822]

3. While I definitely agree that it is time for us to do something

We do have a great system that can be salvaged. We don't have to rebel because we can vote and change our leaders. We should also expect our elected leaders to act lawfully and in our best interests. Which is why Bush and Cheney should be impeached immediately! Our Constitution has in it all the tools we need to restore our government without overthrowing it.

But, we as a country have lost the drive that pushed the colonists and founding fathers. I hope that by restoring our educational system, we can restore some of the intellectual capacity that has been diminished over the years. And, that might even lead to, shock, people caring.

[annabanana]

11. "we can vote and change our leaders"

Beware we don't lose (or haven't already lost) that capability.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Right on, most people, even on DU, are fully unaware of what is going on

with elections

[Greyhound]

27. We can vote among those chosen for us by people that are not accountable to us.

Is that really choice? I know how fond we are here of pumping up the "differences" between the candidates, but viewed objectively they are insignificant. The choice was made for us well over a year ago by people that most of us have never heard of.

Similarly, the difference between the parties are a facade. Sure, if you use the idiot frat boy as representative of republiks the difference is great, but that is like using Charles Manson as representative of brunette men. We have no choice not even the choice of leaving, we have one party, one priority, one agenda, and none of it is decided by us.

[theboss]

4. Do you think the "average 25-year-old" in colonial times could read in Latin?

This is my favorite lament of the intellectual: "Oh the working class has been dumbed down over history. Just look at Thomas Jefferson."

Thomas Jefferson was probably the most intelligent man in the world in 1775. He was, by no means, the average colonist. The average colonist was either an illiterate tobacco farmer or a northern tradesman who was apprenticed at age 12.

Do you really think that the "Over the Mountain Boys" spoke Greek?

There was a trully brilliant intellectual class in the colonies during the Enlightenment. And most of them had the advantage of not actually needing to work for a living. But I would put up, say, the faculty at Pepperdine University with the signers of the Declaration and be fairly comfortable that man to man and woman to, well, man, they would hold their own intellectually.

[truedelphi]

5. Now I believe you are right about the "average guy" and

His inability to read Greek or Latin.

But the Colonists had town halls and community meetings, and at these meetings they listened carefully to those in their midst who did have an education, who could recite Virgil, and who could explain why Caesar's tyranny was of such great import to the Romans. They used their time and their faculties to ascertain important truths. There existed no Mainstream Media to keep them focused 24/7 on Paris Hilton or Britney .

Yes, it could be argued that we have just as many Town Hall meetings today - however most of them are over things like building permits and the need for new sidewalks on Main Street. And yes, if Pepperdine Faculty members are in attendance, I am sure their IQ's would rival those of say Jefferson.

But whether the members of Pepperdine are looking at the big picture or not, I cannot say. Most of my friends in academia think I am over the top - they have so much as told me that when things are bad, the Media will let us know, and then will inform us of what we need to do. (To which I say, Gee, that worked very well for the victims of Katrina while they stood on their rooftops!)

Many people in academia wouldn't know how to flush a toilet if they hadn't learned that skill back in kindergarten.

[VermeerLives]

10. Excellent points, truedelphi

"Most of my friends in academia think I am over the top - they have so much as told me that when things are bad, the Media will let us know, and then will inform us of what we need to do."

Yikes! And how much do we pay to send our kids to sit under their tutelage??

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You have a romantic view of the past

most people in Colonial America did not participate in the town hall meetings, Most of those meetings happened in places like boston or New York, the major cities

That was not the case in the frontier

And those who were allowed in were freemen, who owned property. That is a minority of the population. It did not include tradesmen, unless they were masters, it certainly did not include indentured servants or blacks or women. It is not your fault, since Most do look at the past with that wonder of gee whiz look at those times.

What they had was a very well educated elite, that decided to lead a revolution.

As to academia... they are not alone. MOST people in this country still believe the media will let them know, and things could not be that bad. I'd compare our troubles with Germany of the 1930s... ignore the little man, he will soon go away... And yes, like the 1930s you have a deep sense of anomie across the population

Now, what will it take for the current population to finally get off their ass and do something? I have no idea at this point

One would think after Katrina they would. Nope.

Partly because mass media has been extremely effective at keeping the masses quiet and fully narcotized

Oh and we can talk a little revolution here on DU, which was a hanging offense in King George's America, and we will get there if they get their way. . But I have asked before, and these days I don't expect that to change

1.- Have you seen in the flesh the results of an actual civil war? (I have for the record and the knowledge gives me shivers)

2.- Are you actually willing to go that way? Most people balk at that question.... and the few who go yes... haven't seen number one.

For the record, if it came down to that, knowing what this means, I'd take sides, mostly as they usually work, they most likely be forced on me... but I know what war looks like... and I will do all I can to keep this civil war (yes we are in one) cold. Though I have little hopes that it will remain cold... the right has way too much to loose assuming the system works.

[VermeerLives]

6. the "average 25-year-old" in colonial times

Well, I don't know about that, but I read an excellent book a few years ago about Abigail Adams, who was never "formally" educated, but was very intelligent and wrote very well (she was "educated"). Had she not written all those letters, it would have been a loss for all of us, because she gave us a unique window into the Revolution and the events going on. And all of this as a young mother with small children. She was, IMHO, more mature at 18 than many 30-year-olds I meet today.

One incident in particular impressed me about Abigail. One morning her brother came to her house with some hungry patriots, and she gladly made breakfast for them. When her brother noticed she had pewter utensils, he commented on how they had no bullets. Abigail immediately and unhesitatingly gathered up her pewter, and it was put in a pot to be melted down for bullets.

She even took her young son Quincy to watch the Battle of Bunker Hill, something he never forgot and an event which cemented his patriotism the rest of his life.

[truedelphi]

14. I am quite excited about the wonderful series that HBO is promising

This weekend, which deals with John Adams and his wife Abigail.

I am happy that we basically got HBO for free through a small errror at the Media Lordship's accounting office.

[Warpy]

7. Yes and no

The tax laws the Crown imposed on the colonies were an attempt at protecting their own industry from offshoring. The laws against merchants and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution here were to stop competition with England, since labor here was so much cheaper and the raw materials at hand.

The more people here objected to heavy taxation, the more oppressive the Crown got.

[truedelphi]

15. I wasn't thinking about that - about how the taxes prevented off-shoring

And it wasn't just jobs that were being lost - the Crown was lsoing its citizens to the New Country as well.

[Thothmes]

24. A big part of the Crowns taxes in the

colonies went to maintain the British Army in North America and to help defray the cost of the French and Indian wars.

[theboss]

9. By the way, the issue of Revolution vs. Rebellion was more of an issue in the Civil War

Lincoln viewed the war from the beginning as a Rebellion - which many of his early officers did not do. The Confederacy viewed it more as a Revolution, though a more accurate description would be a return to the principles of the Revolution. A Rebellion implies an uprising against a legitimate authority.

What is largely forgotten is the "why" behind the Crown's taxation of the colonies - that being the completely out of control defense budget. The British had emerged victorious from the Seven Years War and in possession of a vast empire. But they needed to pay for the defense of the Empire. And they couldn't do so without additional taxes.

I think there is a lesson in there somewhere.

[truedelphi]

12. Doesn't George Washington point out

Towards the end of his life, the danger that exists if countries engage in foreign wars?

I think there was a consensus of the Framers of the Constitution that wars should only be fought for defensive purposes.

[jhain]

13. Well said...

and having spent the day touring in Philly I must agree....

[truedelphi]

16. Thank you for the wonderful photo of the Liberty Bell n/t

[hootinholler]

18. What is this English Constitution?

There is no such animal. There is the common law, then the Magna Carta and then the body of law enacted in Parliament.

Also I seriously doubt the common man in the colonies was versed in British and roman history. They looked to the more learned men Like Washington, Jefferson, and untold others for leadership. I would be shocked if more than 10% of the population had classical knowledge.

-Hoot

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Yes they do

http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/328/2415/frameset.html

This is the 1866 version, but the UK definitely HAS a constitution that goes back to Magna Carta as one of its sources

[hootinholler]

22. Um, that is a collection of essays about something called the English Constitution...

However, When I was working with English legal publishers (Butterworths) I asked them to show me the English Constitution as I was curious to see what we (the U.S) had adapted from it. It was explained to me that there is no such document per se. There is the Common Law, the Magna Carta, and what the Parliament has granted. So until I have such a document produced, I'll continue my beliefs.

-Hoot

[truedelphi]

25. Pauline Maier lets the situation develop while you read her book

The Colonists are discussing the Constitution - and since her book ends before our leaders write out our COnstitution - I cna only presume that it exists.

It could be that it is the law case precedents, and other essays that were kept for their lawyers to refer to (What they call barristers,of course)

I would have liked it if Maier had explained more about it, rather than just including the expression

[murielm99]

26. This is what I learned in school.

There is no British Constitution. It is exactly as you said: common law, the Magna Carta and a collection of laws passed by Parliament. I had a textbook that had that statement. I had not known this until college, and I was fascinated that their law had evolved in this way.

My teacher for the classes I took on British History was a fascinating man. He spent every summer reading and studying in the British Museum.

[laylah]

19. My sister and I were JUST

talking about this. I said people these days would be more afraid because there are so many that would be willing to shoot us down and that would relish in it! Sad but true. That said, where do I sign up?

[surfermaw]

23. Taxes