So. Is "paying for it" OK when women do it?

[Triana]

What about it?

Men expect women to be all for legalized prostitution and with them sleeping around. What about women doing it? What do guys think of their SOs, wives, or girlfriends using gigolos and paying them for sex? Secretly of course. Until/unless they get caught that is.

So your wife goes out of town, hires a male 'escort'/gigolo, has a grand ol time and you find out years later that she did that - numerous times, on business trips.

Eh?

Discuss. Seems to me there has always been a double-standard where this is concerned (sexual fidelity/commitment and "paying" for "services").

Is there? I have YET to meet or talk to any man who is OK with this - with affairs, or just 'fooling around' when their wife or girlfriend or significant other (SO) does it. But my circle of friends (or family) isn't huge so...

[Cornus]

1. What's good for the goose...nt

[panader0]

2. I'd like to take this opportunity to say that I am available for

discrete assignations for ladies visiting the area. I need the extra money for my gas tank. My slogan "Will escort for gas"

[Dr. Strange]

4. Perhaps you should change that to "Will escort for fuel."

Maybe?

[panader0]

6. Yeah, I can see how that might improve business.........

[pokerfan]

45. "Will Pump For Fuel!"

[guitar man]

18. hey

can you get here this weekend and get her sufficiently distracted so my buddies and I can make our tee-off time? :D

[Pawel K]

3. I don't think I get your point

of course men aren't going to be okay with their wives cheating on them. Just like women won't be okay with their husbands cheating on them. I don't see what that has to do with prostitution and I fail to see the double standard, maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.

[Common Sense Party]

5. "Men expect women to be all for legalized prostitution and with them sleeping around. "

Huh? WTF?

What men expect that? Braindead men? I'm not sure they count.

As a faithful husband of 16 years, I find that statement confusing at best, and offensive at worst.

[davsand]

7. I was always under the impression that most men selling it are gay.

I'm not trying to paint anybody with a broad brush or anything, but I was always kind of under the impression that most of the men out there selling sex are selling to other men rather than to women. The Richard Gere American Gigolo thing really is mostly fantasy, I think.

To answer your question, as it was written, however, I think my husband would have every right to be pissed off at me for hiring a stud service if I was out on my own. I promised he'd be the only one in my bed when I married him. That is how OUR marriage is understood, but it does not mean that everyone else should be bound by our values and choices.

I'd be equally pissed if I found out he was tricking on the side.

Just my two cents.


Laura

[Triana]

11. Probably most men selling it are gay but I do see adverts in my local indy for....

...male escorts and other services that don't necessarily seem aimed at only the gay community so there are a few gigolo services out there - and some may be either straight or gay - whatever the client wants.

I suspect that - like you - most married or otherwise committed folks have some sort of pre-discussed agreement regarding sex with others outside the relationship. However, IMO unless allowing sex with others outside the relationship was specifically agreed upon up front in the beginning with both parties specifically agreeing that they'd allow each other to do it - then it ought not to be happening unless one person simply has no respect for the other or for the relationship and doesn't give a flying fig. And the latter is usually how it happens, sadly.

And, I think there's a huge societal and maybe even legal double-standard, too, when it comes to women having sex outside their marriage or committed relationship as opposed to men doing it - in any case.

[EOTE]

25. And what is that double standard?

Does it benefit the man or the woman? It seems to me that you think this double standard benefits the man. After all, you think it's common place with regards to men and that women even expect their man to sleep around. I really don't understand what you're suggesting at all. What is this societal and legal double standard?

[Triana]

31. WHAT planet DO you live on?

It's obviously not this one. Pfft!

I think you're beyond help.

[EOTE]

32. So, I'll take that as you don't have a clue?

I was asking an honest question, I was hoping to get an honest reply. If all you have to offer is snarkiness and insults, it's clear that you don't have one. Later.

[frogcycle]

36. You can't sell what nobody buys

Hell, I'd be available to women at $1000/hr, but I don't seem to have any takers.
Its the demographic of the clientele that results in the condition you describe.

[davsand]

42. Do you suppose it is available disposable income that plays into that?

All joking aside, I was struck by that thought when I saw your post. It was not terribly long ago that women (typically) did not have the disposable income that men do. If you stop to think about it, women typically did not work outside the home until WW2 opened the factory doors. Up to that point in time, any woman working outside the home was doing it because of absolute need.

I will admit, however, that I do think there is a sort of schizophrenia with a lot of women and sex. Many will admit privately to liking sex, but they are scared shitless to be branded as a "whore" or "slut." The sheer idea of paying for a man to have sex with might freak a lot of women out. Men are frequently able to joke about sex and masturbation. Many women (especially the older ones typically with the most disposable income) would be mortified to discuss either subject.


Laura

[frogcycle]

48. hmmm...

I always thought they weren't interested.

you think I should cut my price? :)

again, all joking aside, I really think it is because there is little interest. I saw a stat the other day that said men think about sex like every seven seconds or something, and fewer than 20% of women say they think about it at all if not in a sexual encounter
Maybe that's exaggerated, but the difference is real, and natural. Men are driven by nature to distribute their genes whenever/wherever possible, because that is their evolutionary role. Women are driven by nature to get pregnant a few times, but otherwise have better things to do. Ok, so I'm still joking (sort of) but the trend is valid. It certainly is for other animal species.

And those women who DO get the urge to fool around on a business trip or whatever can probably "score" pretty readily if they so choose. Heck, rather than pay for it, they could probably charge!

[davsand]

50. Well. I was always taught you get what you pay for.

Seems to me that if you are legitimately able to advertise and deliver an hour you probably could command a pretty steep price.

:shrug:


I think that women probably do view sex differently, but I also think that a woman talking to another woman or answering with anonymity is probably gonna admit to a higher sex drive than is commonly reported. Yeah, we ARE horny too, but we lie about it more than men do.

Maybe I am just strange, but I just can't imagine NOT thinking about sex at some point during the day. (I suppose it could be my boring government job and a dirty wandering mind, but I swear, I thought about sex before I ever became a tax wonk!) Sex is not just for procreation any more, and if you stop to think about it the clit has no other function other than pleasure. (I'm serious when I say women DO think about sex during the average day!)

As for Having "better things to do..." I am LMAO. I must be missing out on something because I am very serious when I tell you laundry, washing dishes or cooking don't hold a candle to even lousy sex. (I'll grant you, I do enjoy DU, but even THAT can be sidelined offered the opportunity for a romp...)

Anyhow, YMMV with this stuff, but I sure wouldn't be giving up on a sex life just yet if I was you! It might not pay the rent for you but it sure can keep you occupied!


Regards!


Laura

[youthere]

8. I don't think there's anything wrong with men or women paying for it so long as...

ALL parties involved are informed. If he or she is married (or otherwise attached) then before that person solicits a prostitute the partner should at least KNOW about it..if not necessarily consent.

[mondo joe]

9. I don't care what anyone does in their sex life so long as all parties are adults and willing.

I don't consider cheating acceptable or anyone because not everyone (the cheated on spouse) is willing.

I don't think I saw anyone else on DU advocating for cheating -- did you???

[Triana]

12. That's what Spitzer did....

..cheating. One can't be 'willing' if they don't know WTF is even going on - and usually - they don't. Obviously his wife didn't -- so yes it was cheating and IMO - WRONG.

And then, in regards to Spitzer and prostitutes, we have these threads about "well what's wrong with paying for it?"

Well - if your spouse / partner agrees up front that it's OK then nothing - BUT...that wasn't the case and usually isn't. No one seemed interested in discussing THAT little snag. It was all about how it ought to be OK - period. (for men anyway).

So - yes, we ARE talking about cheating - this post bounced off the Spitzer thing and the "what's wrong with paying for it?" thread.

[mondo joe]

16. I didn't see anyone saying his - or anyone else's - CHEATING was okay. Did you?

The question of what's wrong with paying for it has nothing to do with whether cheating is okay, unless you assume everyone paing for it is cheating.

There are many people who pay for it without cheating - they're not synonymous.

With regard to the Spitzers what I've consistently said is that no one but them knows or can judge what's up in their marriage - thats their business as is every other marriage.

[Triana]

26. They didn't say it WASN'T OK if he was cheating either....

...did they? As I said THAT "little" nit was left out of the convo.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. whether it is or is not ok, is something between him and his wife

since i dont know the arrangement of their marriage it is not my place to cast judgement

[mondo joe]

28. I thought I DID see that. But if it's helpful in any way:

I support legalization of prostitution, and of people having full choice over their own bodies; I don't think it's acceptable to cheat on a spouse because it's a lie and a violation; I don't know the intricacies of the Spitzer marriage, and if this was cheating - which it apears to be - he was wrong to do it.

[seabeyond]

15. how about this. how many times a prosititue KNOWS the man is married

and would be hurtful to the wife. does she have any obligation, responsibility to the pain of another. you dont advocate cheating, but the prostitute knows there is cheating, ..... then there is a condoning of cheating and you dont get to ignore it. that is an essense of the whole prostitution to do.

so at least be honest enough to say, cheating, ... fuck, that is someone elses problem, instead if cheating wrong. much of the prostitutes world is the cheating husband.

[Triana]

17. she has no obligation. the husband does...

..it's HIS behavior and HIS specific seeking out of her services that is at issue. She is simply providing a service HE asked for - with him KNOWING he is cheating.

It's not the prostitute's responsibility to police wayward husbands - it's THEIR (the husbands') responsibility to be accountable for THEIR OWN damn behavior.

NO ONE else is responsible for it, IMO.

[seabeyond]

21. the husband would be kicked out on his ass, readily, agree, his responsibility. BUT

this is what we are talking about when you want to make it a respectable event, it is not. of course she has a place in the choices she makes. the other woman doesnt get off the hook in an affair. she made choices. those choices hurt other people. people that had done nothing to her. yes it is on her as immoral, unethical, mean.... it is the same with a prostitute and she gets to carry the weight of hurting complete strangers that have done nothing to her.

my point is, all these things are lower vibration that builds and weighs on our spirit.

it is the dirty job that they do.

now, if one wants that life they are going to do everything to ignore this. to protect self, build a wall. that in itself does damage to a person. better to just own and say gonna do this regardless, be honest with self, than to lie to self.

[mondo joe]

19. I don't think that's a different questin than holds for anyone else who has sex with a person

they know to be married.

People who cheat are violating a promise. Anyone who assists them is assisting the violation of a promise. But the one person who I think can most reasonably held responsible is the person cheating.

[seabeyond]

23. having been a single woman in man world for over a decade, i KNOW

my responsibility to the married. i totally disagree with you on this.

[NaturalHigh]

10. Paying for it? Who cares?

Cheating on their spouses is still wrong, as it is for men. If a single woman wants to spend money for sex, however, I don't see how it's any different than a guy picking up a hooker (or calling one in).

[PVnRT]

13. It's not necessarily about the pay, it's about exploitation

That's the critical thing to remember about prostitution. The vast majority in the profession are used like machinery by pimps and madames until they are no longer useful, then tossed aside.

Besides, something tells me there are far, far more female prostitutes than male, at least in this country.

[Triana]

14. Yes that's another issue with it. (n/t)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. it is not ok for me OR my wife to have sex (paid or not) with someone else

so that really doesn't apply in our marriage...however, if others don't care...let 'er rip!

sP

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. i think all sexworkers should be protected, the morality of someone elses marriage and life

has nothing to do with me.

protecting workers benefits the oppressed and society in the long run.

[seabeyond]

24. self deleted

[The Stranger]

29. "My best friend left town with my wife -- and I miss him."

Seen on a hat worn by a man.

[seabeyond]

30. said to put down woman to make him feel like a man. why is it so hard to feel like a man

why the need to dig at a woman to feel like a man. i do not need to insult a man to feel like a woman.

[The Stranger]

34. Well . . .

If the premise is true, he is "putting down" his wife because she betrayed him in a horribly cruel and insidious way -- leaving town with his best friend.

How did you miss that part?

No, just forget it. I don't want to know the answer. This isn't worth it.

[lukasahero]

37. How do you feel about the bumper sticker

"Ditch the bitch, let's go hunting"?

What did the woman in that scenario do to warrant the put down?

And for the first one, didn't his "best friend" betray him as well? Seems he can get over the breach of trust on his friend's part but not his wife's. (Oh, I know, "it's different".)

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. I've reached the conclusion that every other post never reaches my screen.

Because I see so much outrage over the double standard that apparently (dozens! hundreds!) of posts get spammed to everyone else's screens indicating either that the men on DU think that it's socially important that brothels exist next door to every airport to service the neglected married men, or that these same posters have helped to institute a law directing all wives to stay shut in their homes.

Given the level of outrage, it must be my computer.

People are free to leave their homes. People are free to behave as inappropriately as they wish. They are also obliged to take the consequences for those choices.

Men don't have a monopoly on bad choices.

[EOTE]

39. Where have you been?

I guess you're not aware that the Phallocracy has been working on this one issue intently for the past 60 years or so. That's why women are so opened to the idea of prostitution and why most wives would happily condone that their husband see a prostitute. But if the gender roles are reversed, the American Taliban would step in to execute any woman who would dare try to partake in this distinctly masculine past time. </sarcasm>

I asked up thread what this double standard was and I got nothing but a snarky little quip as a reply. I don't think you'll have much better luck getting an answer. The double standards I can see regarding prostitution are that it seems that 'Johns' get busted far more often than any prostitutes do. I've also noticed that while women may make up a very small portion of clientele, I've never seen a picture of a 'Jane' on any of those postings that are supposed to make men so ashamed of paying for sexual services. All I see is so called feminists talking fervently about making sure that women continue to have less choices pertaining to their own body. Hypocrites if you ask me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Oh, that explains it. The phallocracy kicked me out of their club.

I've gotten my share of :eyes: too.

[frogcycle]

35. yes n/t

[JBoy]

38. Thanks for lumping all men together as pigs

"Men expect women to be all for legalized prostitution and with them sleeping around."

When did this become fact?

[EOTE]

41. It's common knowledge.

Just like how all men believe that they have the right to rape. And like how men are only capable of communicating through grunts, burps and farts. It's all unquestionable truth once you've spent enough time on chat boards on the internets (AKA The Holy Beacons of all that is Truthful).

[seabeyond]

43. my issue is i am hearing from men, .... that all me.... and that is making me

look at my husband and say, is he just not expressing self, but really he feels, cause the message i am getting on the board is ALL men need porn, ALL men think of sex every second of every day, ALL men say "pay them for it one way or another", ALL men .....

what i have appreciated in these threads is seeing a minority, a few men come out and speak contradicting what i am hearing about ALL men. i really appreciate it.

[mondo joe]

49. While I think there are certainly gender TRENDS there are no real universals -

not in terms of feelings or behavior.

Even if there is a trend, one can't conclude it is true of every single person who fits the demographic.

So if there are things that seem to be trends among men which you find unappealing, they don't necessarily apply to your husband.

[Karenina]

40. All this talk of paying for it

has caused a goofy question to pop up in my mind...
Has there ever been an expose/scandal involving lesbian prostitutes? :freak:

[genie_weenie]

44. Infidelity by Women is the Line in Sand for men

mostly due to our evolutionary history. Human males do not want to waste their resources raising the offspring of another's genetic line. However, for males the instinct is to propagate their seed into as many wombs as possible, especially if they can get away without caring for the offspring. Human females slept around tens of thousands of years ago and still do today. It was "best" for them to get the protection of the male with the most resources (wealth) and the seed of the most attractive/physically fit/smartest/strongest male.

This is the root cause for sexual dimorphism and for the R-Complex reactions stirred up by infidelity.

However, Humanity has this little quirk called consciousness which allows us to overcome our animal instincts.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

47. I think there is some truth in the double-standard

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, a "cuckold" is defined as: "A man married to an unfaithful wife." It seems to be a state of disgrace uniquely held by men. To be a cuckold for a man is to be an object of ridicule, who is perceived as someone who cannot satisfy his wife. There seems to be no word that describes a woman's state of distress when she's cheated upon in marriage.

[shanti]

51. go to jamaica

you'll see LOTS of women paying for it - one way or another.