We're in a world of shit, and only a grand new vision can get us out.

[Jackpine Radical]

I now take it for granted that we are about to hit the wall in a major way. If the next administration is Republican, I hate to think of the consequences. They'll put all their energy into expending the insane war in the Middle East, building walls and machine-gun towers along the Mexican border, and keeping their sheep all frothed up about abortion and homosexuality.

Assuming we can get a Democrat into power, I think we need to make massive commitments of resources in five major areas.

First, an FDR-style public works initiative. Put people to work rebuilding the infrastructure the Republicans have ignored since 1981--and while we're at it, put in a nationwide high-speed rail system. Use trucks only for local distribution--get them off the Interstates.

Second, a Green Revolution. Let's get serious about alternative energy and conservation. Put some real money into developing new battery technologies, solar, wind, etc. Develop new ways to heat & insulate buildings.

Third, an information revolution. It's a lot easier to move electrons around than big, lumpy things. Put in interactive, public super communication systems. People don't need to fly around to attend meetings, etc. if they can do virtual meetings with videophone-type technology.

Fourth, as wealth is created, it should be distributed among the people responsible for its creation. That means the workers, not the Wall Street parasites. If a technological innovation decreases the net amount of work that has to be done, don't fire people; increase their wages commensurate with their increased productivity and shorten the work week.

Fifth, a rededication to ensuring that all our people have adequate health care, enough to eat, decent housing, and universal educational opportunities. This would of course include higher education for all who have the aptitude and desire. We have a Medieval model of a university system; time to take advantage of all the new technologies & distribute it everywhere.


How do we fund this grand scheme? First by realigning our priorities. Call a truce in the War on Drugs. End the war. Quit building prisons and get serious about criminal rehabilitation. And, finally, in the same way the Republicans are now funding the war. If it's OK to borrow money for tremedously destructive purposes, then why can't we borrow for creative purposes? In short, the trick is to ditch the insane trickle-down economic theories of the Neocons and return to the far healthier principles of John Maynard Keynes.

[Donnachaidh]

1. Call for JOHN EDWARDS to get back in the RACE.

He's the only one who had it right from day one.

[Warpy]

2. Right, and I hope it's dawned on Al From

that forcing him out of the race thinking all the white guy votes would go to Clinton was a blunder of colossal proportions.

Then again, I doubt anything ever dawns on Al From. His view of the world has been set into stone and nothing is going to change it until the day he does it a favor and croaks.

Our only hope is that whoever the candidate is has the intelligence to pick Edwards as a running mate and listen to him as the economy continues to fail.

Remember, governments are never proactive. They are always reactive. Corporatists have to have their backs against the wall and angry mobs at the gate before they'll do any of the right things. It's always been like this and it always will be.

Just prepare for things to suck for the next few years.

[alarimer]

15. I read that those white guy votes will go to Obama

because a lot of men will not vote for a woman. Or maybe it's just that they won't vote for her. So that was a miscalculation on From's part. We would be better off had Edwards been able to be competitive.

This will suck no matter who wins. All those Obama fans who think things will somehow change instantly once he takes office will be disillusioned.

[Warpy]

16. Yes, they certainly will be disillusioned, because the economy

is going to suck for the next several years no matter who gets in.

The only questions will be whether or not our nominee will have the flexibility to discard things that clearly aren't working and the wisdom to pick advisors who will tell him/her just when and what those are.

If they take appropriate action 2 years or so in (the minimum it will take for riots to convince them that things need to be changed), then some faith in the system and the president might be restored. If not, then brace yourselves for another Republic administration in 2013.

[dysfunctional press]

39. i have no doubt that the next president is going to be a one-termer.

hopefully though, maybe the mayans knew what they were doing when they ended their calendar in 2012.

[Warpy]

42. Well, we can hope that a conservative, corporatist Democrat

is followed by a fire breathing progressive populist Democrat.

That would be sufficient to usher in the 180 degree change this country needs and which was foretold by the Mayan calendar as occurring worldwide.

That calendar goes on into a new age. It doesn't end. It only ends this age.

I won't be sorry to see this age end.

[dysfunctional press]

45. one theory regarding the mayan calendar and 2012...

is that it will portend a global pole-shift- which won't be good for any of us.

btw- the mayan calendar doesn't go on to a new age- 2012 marks the end of the 5th and final "age".

[Warpy]

71. Only to one group of New Agey interpreters.

Most scholars see it as the end of one age and the beginning of the next.

That doesn't mean it won't be unpleasant.

[Horse with no Name]

79. Me either Warpy

Me either.
I'm ready for some REAL hope and change.

[calimary]

95. Maybe we need a new kind of thinking?

Please consider:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3025305

With great affection!

A new mindset is WAY overdue.

[Jackpine Radical]

21. I'm really hoping this doesn't degenerate into a GD-P mudfest.

I think sometimes we need to discuss ideas and visions without attaching personalities to them.

[Donnachaidh]

75. the point of my post was the FACT that Edwards WAS IDEA driven

He wasn't the candidate of the *cult of personality*.

His IDEAS were real, so much so the other candidates were forced to acknowledge problems, and even sing on to fix those problems. Of course, their fixes were weak-assed *let's get everyone to sit down at the table, even the corporations who are doing the bad stuff* nonsense. But it was HIS vision that the next president should be a populist who will take back the country for the middle class.

[Jackpine Radical]

76. I supported Edwards too.

But the minute you use a word like "vision" or mention a candidate's name around here, you take the risk of having about a dozen escapees from GD-P starting a food fight on your thread, and if you do both, you're almost inviting a hijacking, so I was nervous.

[Jade Fox]

3. Reading your post....

I am reminded that there exists innovative thinking about our country's problems, and it is certainly available to our elected officials.

But it seems a truism that, given a choice between innovative problem solving and putting a thin new veneer on old, worn out solutions, we get the latter every time. I don't really get why that is.

[Beam Me Up]

9. You don't get why that is?

It is always because the hegemony of moneyed power is threatened by the innovation. We've known for almost 40 years, for example, that building an advanced technological civilization on non-renewable and highly polluting energy sources would lead us precisely to where we are today. Big money banking and oil understand that renewable energy sources are inherently decentralized in their production and, therefore, their markets are more difficult, if not impossible, to control. In other words, they inherently redistribute wealth horizontally rather than vertically. The same design can be seen in every seemingly "backasswards" government policy whether it be "the war on drugs" or "the war on terror" or what have you. It isn't "incompetent" policy, it is rather policy that achieves aims other than those publicly stated.

[scarletwoman]

10. Bingo! Excellent post -- a succinct summary of the truth about for whom government really works. nt

[Jade Fox]

12. Okay, yes I do get it....

But the whole thing is reaching the level of insanity. This is not one hundred years ago when the disaster of non-renewable and highly polluting energy sources was far away--we're swimming in that disaster right now. Yet still we seem unable to demand change. The captains of capitalism can't even figure out new ways of exploitation, which surely must exist in the area of alternative energy.

Many people today appear to believe that change is not possible. Their attitude is that alternatives were tried and they didn't work. (You see this most clearly with the issue of eradicating poverty) This is the true victory of Corporations--to destroy the belief that change is possible.

[Lorien]

56. Or, simply stated, (s)he who controls the world's energy controls the

world". They know this, and that's why they fight "disruptive" technologies that would benefit all life on earth.

[Jackpine Radical]

61. You can't control a universally available resource like sunlight.

No fun to be had in solar development. Gotta kill it. Get Jimmy Carter's solar panels off the White House roof before people get ideas.

[Raksha]

90. In other words...

they aren't interested in any resource they can't monopolize.

Re You can't control a universally available resource like sunlight.

I think you nailed it.

[Beam Me Up]

94. Yes, "they aren't interested in any resource they can't monopolize."

That says it in one sentence.

It isn't just commodities such as energy, however. It is also currency for one example and policy for another.

Once one begins to understand that the name of the game is 'market control' regardless what market we're talking about, it all begins to make sense.

A large factor in 'market control' is control of the consumer perception. That is why stated policy (that is, the understanding of policy as presented by the politicians/government through the media), is often 180° opposite the actual (unstated) policy intention. Controlling public/consumer perception is a large part of controlling the market. Again, the "war on drugs" or the "war on terror" are excellent examples because they clearly do not achieve their stated aims and yet they are funded by the hundreds of billions. Most criticism accepts this state of affairs as 'incompetence' and the moneyed powers are fine with this perception as it is inaccurate and does not lead to strategic analysis or change of the actual control system itself.

[Uncle Joe]

86. I agree with everything you said and

I would only add big money media knew the Internet would inherently decentralize information and I believe this was the primary reason, they enabled an inferior candidate to power. I don't believe it was a coincidence his warrant less wiretapping began shortly after Bush came to power and even before 9/11. They were aiming at neutralizing the growing power and influence of the Internet or the power of the people.

Just as the other examples you posted, I believe his "Presidency" is a direct result of big money media fighting to keep wealth flowing vertically opposing the law of gravity. This requires a tremendous amount of energy to sustain, but one can only do that for so long. I believe war it self is the ultimate and last resort form of converting mass in to energy to feed this growing atrocity against the people.

In conclusion, I believe every negative economic hard ship happening now and those to come are a direct result of them abusing the laws of nature, literally and figuratively. "Greed is good" yea right, :sarcasm: I say don't fuck with mother nature is a more profound lesson for humankind to learn.

[scarletwoman]

4. I'm glad you made this a stand-alone post -- I saw your first draft in AzDar's thread.

These are good, sound ideas. Now, if only the political will existed to implement them. And the political will won't happen without a massive push from the People, it's never going to come from the top.

sw

[bluerum]

7. Absolutely right. Corpo owned government will not bite the hands that feed them.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Amen, Sister.

And hi, SW. :loveya:

[scarletwoman]

27. Hi JR!

Glad as always to see you posting.

:loveya:
sw

[marmar]

5. And start returning a lot of what's been privatized over the years back to the commons.....

n/t

[bluerum]

6. One through three are direct assaults on oil industry domination. Four

requires a major overhaul of the banking and financial industries. You know, passing conflict of interest legislation etc.

Five is really three and a half initiatives in one - national health care and national nutrition program. Housing policy touches on the financial industry as they regulate the banking and mortgage business.

I like all these initiatives, but the oil and financial sectors have bought and paid for government millions of times over. Who do you think politicians are going to work for?

[Vincardog]

8. ARe there any Good legal writers here? How about putting in the Whereas and be it resolved so

I can take these to county and then State as resolutions?

[tomg]

13. Works for me. nt.l

[bobthedrummer]

14. That's why I don't consider my vote for Kucinich to be wasted

at all, JR.

K&R

[riderinthestorm]

17. Thanks for a thoughtful, insightful post. K&R.

I'm emailing the link to your post to more than a few people in my address book.

[bobbolink]

18. I'd rather be first than fifth on you list, but thank you for remembering me!

I appreciate very much you including poor folk like me on your list.

Could it possibly come before the high-speed electrons? I"m really tired of sleeping in the snow, if it's OK with you. :hi:

[Jackpine Radical]

19. I certainly understand how you feel.

I hope you see, though, that every part of my plan is intended to help everyone. Decent jobs, sharing in the fruits of one's labor, cheap and clean energy--it all works together. Just because I enumerated the parts of the idea in a certain arbitrary order doesn't mean they should be implemented in that order.

[shireen]

22. thank you, Jackpine, it's a very thoughtful eloquent post

and I'm bookmarking it so I can read it over and over.

:hug:

[bobbolink]

28. "doesn't mean they should be implemented in that order."

:applause:

As one who keeps getting put on the back burner, I salute you for your understanding spirit!

:patriot:

I"d just like to have a roof soon. :hi:

[shireen]

30. you're always on the front-burner for me, Bobolink

Homelessness is intolerable. Period. Many of us do what we can but it never seems enough. It's horribly frustrating.

:hug:

[shireen]

20. excellent summary, which is why I'm disappointed AL GORE did not run

Gore has vision. We desperately need leaders with vision.

Let's take one example, the internet.
All those jokes about Gore "inventing the internet" were partly true -- that is, he helped invent the internet that we know today.

In the 22+ years that I've been on the internet, much longer than most people, I've watched this astonishing transformation take place at amazing speed. ARPAnet, the precursor to the internet, was originally deployed in the early 70s by the military. That technology expanded into the scientific community where it became known as the internet. Back when I was in college, in the 80s, academics used the internet for sharing information quickly and easily. We used "dumb" terminals, running UNIX or VMS. Internet communication was generally via simple mail tools like UNIX mail and pine. For file transfers, we used ftp (which i still use today!). Discussion forums were in the form of usenet groups that posted comments as ascii files (anyone remember rn or vn?!), a far cry from the sophisticated graphics we now have for forums like DU. Back then, graphical internet interfaces were not generally available, and if it were, it was rudimentary in form.

Gore was the first politician to recognize the incredible potential of this network and worked to make it a part of our public infrastructure. I remember, just before the internet became a public tool, how my boss came into my office one day, all excited about this new tool called "Mosaic". It was the precursor to the web interfaces we know and sometimes love today like Netscape, Safari, Explorer, Firefox. When the internet became public, we saw an explosion of innovation in software development, communication, and commerce. (One unfortunate side effect was the dot.com bubble-bust, but that's a different story.) Today, the internet has become so ingrained in our everyday lives that we take it for granted, like our water supply, electricity, highways, conventional radio & tv transmissions, as well as cable/satellite tv.

When we understand Gore's role in leading the internet revolution, we see his extraordinary talent as a leader in inspiring innovation and creativity, and giving us the necessary tools to create breakthrough technologies that benefit the entire planet. We desperately need leadership like that for dealing with alternative energy, education, public health, poverty, and peace. There are others out there who could also be great leaders like Gore but they shy away from politics because it's become a degrading, inefficient, corrupt circus. Until we fix politics as usual, we will have a hard time tapping the full potential of human genius.

[Jackpine Radical]

23. And I too was a diehard Gore backer.

I kept clinging to the hope he would run ("Maybe he'll announce after his Nobel Prize..."), and then I went to Edwards. Now I'm reluctantly backing one of the remaining two, hoping to at least elect a figurehead for change. The real change is gonna have to come from us anyway in the last analysis. We need a new populist uprising.

[kimmerspixelated]

24. Jackpine, you're absolutely right.

I've gotten bored since Edwards left, but I think it's wrong for everyone to become complacent and to just hope it all works out. It will take a big uprising, from WE THE PEOPLE!

[shireen]

25. wise words, Jackpine ....

I also switched to Edwards after Gore made it clear he was not running, but mainly because poverty and homelessness are major issues for me. As long as we have people living in those condition, our society will never prosper. We're all interconnected to each other, a fact that conservatives fail to understand.

It's looking more and more likely that Obama will be our next president. I hope he was the wisdom to tap leaders like Gore, Edwards, Carter, and Clark to help straighten-out the mess created by the Bushes, Reagan, and to some extent, Clinton.

[shireen]

26. but your main point is most important, it's up to US!!! nt

[bobbolink]

29. Did Gore make any statements about poverty?

I've looked, and I don't remember him saying anything about it.

I cheered at his speeches after 2000... he certainly found his spine, and his words were great.

BUT.... without a mention of poverty, he wasn't for me.

[shireen]

31. here ya go

2000 campaign (wish he made it a bigger issue back then, like Edwards did)
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Al_Gore_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

Related to GW (I think Gore has "evolved" -- he's more world-aware than he was in 2000)
http://blog.algore.com/2008/02/poverty_and_climate_change_at.html
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/personoftheyear/article/0,28804,1690753_1695388_1695515,00.html


Bobolink, what kinds of mechanisms are in place to allow for the homeless to vote, since you don't have a permanent address that determines your voting precinct?

[bobbolink]

33. "what kinds of mechanisms are in place to allow for the homeless to vote"

As with other things, I"m sure it varies from location to location.

I had my vote stolen from me in '04!

For the caucuses this year, I had to jump through MANY hoops.. took me about 1 hour and a half to register, as opposed to the normal 2 minutes for most people. :nuke:

It remains to be seen whether I'll still be on the list come november.

It's obscene, all the way around!

Thank you for asking.. I appreciate the concern!

:pals:

[shireen]

35. if all homeless people were as informed as you, and can be organized as a constituency,

y'all would make one hell of a formidable force!

Thinking outside the box, this is one way to make it happen, if we have the resources and technology to do it ... all homeless people (who want it) should be issued free laptops that can access local wifi networks for free. It should come with training on how to use the internet to their benefit, resource centers for getting help with technical issues, and places to recharge or swap out batteries and make hard-copies of documents or job applications. It doesn't have to be a powerful number-crunching machine. All that's needed is the ability to operate web browsers with heavy graphics (which is increasingly common), some standard software packages for stuff like word-processing, etc., wireless modem, and a modest amount of disk space for storing email, documents, and online educational tutorials. And games! Video games are not just entertaining, they're useful for improving mental acuity. This may sound far-fetched, and it's by no means a resource that would be useful for all, but it will be of enormous benefit to a large percentage of homeless who already feel isolated from, and rejected by society. (And it's something that's needed for a society that has largely forgotten them!)

The internet is a very powerful communication medium. If the homeless could communicate with each other all over the country, they could create an important presence in public policy.

Knowledge and networking, when used properly, is empowering. It gives us the means to make things happen in our favor. That's how -- in a big-picture sense -- we start ending homelessness.

[bobbolink]

40. I like your ideas! I would really like to have a lap-top, for many of the reasons you have listed.

And, I"m doing what I can..locally, for now.... to bring people together and share their stories.

There is one project in the works, and I hope to expand it.

It's just very difficult from a library computer, and with the cost of gas ham-stringing me.... :(

Could you get a group of people together to promote this sort of thing???

[shireen]

43. if anyone else is interested in the question posed by Bobolink,

please send me a PM so we can notify you when we've started a different thread about it at one of the computer forums.
It's just to discuss it seriously, to flush out the requirements for such an effort.

[scarletwoman]

58. What about those crank operated laptops they're giving out to children in Africa & S. America?

Maybe a program something like that in the U.S.?

Maybe it's a stupid idea, it was just the first thought that came to mind when I read your post. And I don't know if they'd work for widespread networking.

Here's what I'm referring to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1

In any case, I figured I'd go ahead and post this even if it's stupid, in case it might serve as a taking off point for much better ideas.

sw

[Jackpine Radical]

59. Actually, I had the same thought.

There are also some that aren't crank operated.

I also imagine that people would be willing to donate used but functional desktops to homeless shelters & similar places.

[scarletwoman]

62. Cool! No matter what, I think getting computers in the hands of the homeless is an excellent idea.

It shouldn't be THAT hard to do.

[Jackpine Radical]

66. shireen is backchanneling about this already.

I had the thought that a lot of serviceable, wireless-equipped laptops are being sold every day on ebay in the $2-300 range, and wholesalers are moving fairly large lots of them all the time. Certainly there are DUers with the knowledge & talent to sort through some of these deals & start making some purchases. We need to incorporate as a nonprofit & write a small grant for a test project.

[shireen]

80. so far, i've only heard from you

and scarletwoman has expressed interest.

Maybe people misunderstood me... I was not asking for a work commitment, just a brain-storming discussion on how to proceed.

I'm still gathering my thoughts about it, and searching for ideas and existing programs.

One way to get started perhaps, is a webpage, like a wiki. It would be a place to collect information about local programs across the country and what they provide for the homeless and for low-income families that need computer equipment and support. We should filter out any programs that provide junk computers with mechanical or software problem; the machines must be in good condition or refurbished, using recent operating systems, have wireless capability to connect with local WiFi networks, and contain useful software packages for word processing. These people have enough problems to deal with, and they don't need to be further insulted with crappy equipment. We could then identify existing programs that are working well and figure out how we can best help to "clone" those efforts across the country.

Right now, my immediate interest is getting a good laptop for Bobolink. It is not a gift or act of charity. Instead of investing in stocks and bonds, we should be investing in people. She's a good investment.

[Two Americas]

99. I am in

Thanks for this shireen. Check your messages.

[bobbolink]

83. Excellent!!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

Go for it, Jackpine!!

:yourock: :hug: :yourock:

[shireen]

63. thanks, it's a good idea

Homeless people are a diverse group. Some people, like Bobolink, who have research, educational, and writing projects, or may need online job training, would be better served with a regular laptop. But there are some homeless who simply need it to make a connection with others outside their immediate community and with family; for them, a laptop like the one you suggested, with email and web-browsing software, as well as some word-processing software and games, would work well. It all depends on the needs of the individual. Bobolink's feedback will be very important; most of us in a position to do something, even minimally, have no idea what it's like to be homeless and don't know the challenges they face, and what they really need with regard to computer support.

[bobbolink]

98. Your willingness to ASK is so rare, and so important!

So many people like to dictate, and DECIDE what we "need", and we get discounted along the way.

I so much appreciate your old-fashioned "neighborhood organizing" approach!

And, that simple communication that you mentioned is soooo important! The dehumanizing of homeless people is DEADLY!

[bobbolink]

82. Not stupid at all! I had forgotten about those!

If they can be given out in large programs like that, why not HERE?

:applause:

Bobbolink, who knows that scarletwoman is NEVER stupid! :hug:

[scarletwoman]

92. You are too kind -- but I'm very pleased that you liked the idea.

I haven't tried to research anything yet -- in terms of how one would get such a program set up to serve our OWN citizens in need -- but I'll start poking around and see if a path opens up.

I haven't lived in a city since 1989, and before that I only spent a few years now and then in urban areas in between my various forays into living on the land since the 70s, so I feel very much out of touch with the problems of the urban homeless.

My personal fantasy has long been to have enough land to set up some sort of self-sufficient commune where people live off the grid, grow their own food, set up some cottage industries -- stuff like that.

The 10 acres I live on right now will be paid off in May, and I'll own it free and clear except for property taxes -- which are ridiculously low, because this is a depressed area and my little house is just 640 square feet with no plumbing (I've been hauling all my water for 10 years). Not many people's idea of paradise, but it is for me. :)

Sorry for rambling... I just feel so far removed from the urban experience, and I thought you should know that.

sw

[bobbolink]

96. Me, too kind? Have you seen some of the invective thrown my way??

:rofl:

what do I need to do to make a reservation for your fantasy community????

I'm not in the "urban experience" either, and more and more homeless people are rural or at least suburban.

We are trained by the media to think in terms of ghettos, etc, but the reality is much, much broader than that.

Thanks for your input!

:pals:

[shireen]

73. FYI: interesting link, homeless blogger

very interesting reading ...

http://www.thehomelessguy.blogspot.com/

[bobbolink]

84. Thanks so much for that link! I'm collecting those.

Hadn't seen this one before.

I can tell you, I just read the first part of his last entry, and I RELATE...

TOTALLY!

[Two Americas]

88. powerful

Communication, solidarity, collective action. Everything in modern society mitigates against this. Poverty, homelessness, unemployment - it all starts when we are first silenced and divided.

[bobbolink]

34. "poverty in developing countries" That's what I thought...

It's much easier to talk about poverty "over there", than RIGHT HERE!

How many of us must die RIGHT HERE before we're willing to take ACTION?

Sorry, Al, I like ya, but you aren't speaking for me.

:cry:

[shireen]

36. perhaps you need to speak to him ....

:)

[bobbolink]

38. .

:rofl:

Could you arrange an "audience"?

:hi:

[Two Americas]

89. public infrastructure

The right wingers, acting on behalf of the wealthy and powerful few - a fraction of 1% of the population - well know where the battle lines are drawn and know what the fight is about. We, however - those active in politics and who could be the voice of all working people - are unclear about this and often missing in action. The right wingers attack every aspect of the public infrastructure. That is all there is to their program. Yet so many liberals and progressives buy into the "personal responsibility" realm of individual solutions, the self-actualization myth, and then fail to defend the public infrastructure or to promote political solutions to social problems.

We can never win the battle if we do not know where the battle is and what it is about.

Most of the modern liberal program is libertarianism in liberal clothing - individualized "free market" solutions to social problems that demand public solutions and collective political action. The illusion - and this is a close cousin to right wing libertarianism - is that by changing people one at a time - converting them to a new "belief system" - so that they make the "right choices" and join the ranks of "like-minded" progressives, that somehow good public policy will magically appear.

Reforming people is the domain of religion. Reforming the system is the proper domain of politics. That means building and exercising power through solidarity and collective action, not promoting nicey-nice personal causes while ignoring the system.

[Wizard777]

32. Without repercussions for Bush & Cheney. A grand new vision doesn't matter.

The republicans won't hesitate to put us right back into a world of shit. The dynamic between the republicans and democrats has become the republicans make a huge mess and nearly destroy the country. The democrats clean up the mess and fix everything. What we need is a new dynamic. The republicans make a big mess and nearly destroy the country. The Democrats PUT THEM IN JAIL, clean up the mess, and fix everything. Lil brother keeps wrecking the house of cards we keep building. Bloody his nose and he won't do that anymore.

[shireen]

37. are you talking about ....

I M P E A C H M E N T ? ! !

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

:kick:

:patriot:

[Wizard777]

41. That would be nice. They could also arrest them walking out the door.

Either way I'm happy as long as Bush & Cheney end up in jail where they belong.

[Jackpine Radical]

47. Works for me. (nt)

[deutsey]

44. It seems so obvious, doesn't it?

That's what's so disheartening about our "choices" in this election.

I'm not sure that our current political system will allow such plain sense solutions to come to pass.

[Lorien]

46. I've been posting something similar for months now, but I rarely get a

comment:

Get the hell out of Iraq ASAP. Spend the Billions earmarked for that disaster on a new National high speed MagLev rail system with light rail connectors. Develop the areas around major train depots using the new urbanism designs that place mixed income homes and apartments within walking distance of retail, restaurants, office space, hospitals, schools, and theaters. These measures would create tens of thousands of new jobs and make Americans more mobile, less dependent on foreign oil and our roads would be less congested. To really cut our energy use, I'd build 100 square miles worth of solar panels (a recent article stated that that's how many would be needed to power the entire US), with the eventual goal of making home energy free or nearly free for the poor, disabled,schools,hospitals, government buildings etc. Added benefit; cutting greenhouse gases and allowing those people or institutions to direct the savings elsewhere (like hiring more teachers or staff) .We could do both and STILL spend less than we have on the Iraq war.

Right now a billionaire only pays about 17% income tax while a person making $50,000 a year pays about 28% income tax. Reverse that. Close tax loopholes for the uber rich. End corporate personhood and make big corporations pay their fair share in taxes. If it has to come out of a CEO’s bonus package, then so be it! No more subsidies for corporations who outsource jobs overseas.

Give tax credits and incentives to people who build and buy cars like this: www.aptera.com . Adopt Al Gore’s carbon emission tax idea. Make America a place of new ideas and innovative technology and manufacturing again. Create a National prize (cheaper than a no bid contract to Halliburtan) for energy and health innovations that would be given out every year to the individuals or corporations who develop the most beneficial new technologies. So many amazing developments are never used because profit margin is put before common sense and the welfare of society. Reclaiming our place as world pioneers in these areas could create a massive employment boom.


The fact is that neither Obama or HRC have any "bold plans"; it'll be just more of the same, I'm afraid. The same fat cats will benefit because they've been funding the campaigns. Only with campaign reform will we have any hope of "bold vision".

[Jackpine Radical]

48. Yes, I've sounded similar themes before too, with virtually no response.

Just keep doing it. Once in a while they take off.

I'm sure neither one of us would pretend to have invented these ideas. They're "in the air" these days, so let's keep seeding the clouds until we can make it rain.

[Lorien]

55. The idea for a state high speed rail system w/ light rail connectors

is SO popular here in Florida that a bill funding it has been on the ballot off and on for the past 12 years. However, even though it passed by a huge margin each time, our repug Governors have always found a way to shrink the state budget to the point where there would be absolutely no chance of doing so. Generally they slash taxes for the wealthiest, cut education and environmental cleanup spending, and then announce that lottery sales will make up the growing deficit. It's disgusting-and it seems to be a nation wide trend.

A friend of mine is a city planner for Syracuse, NY, which has had it's own recession for the past seven years or so. Since all of the larger industries in Syracuse have moved offshore, her idea is to attract telecommuters by offering the best public education in the US. I think that that's also an idea which should go National; if we could figure out why Finnish children are the best educated in the world and implement a similar program here we would attract the world's most educated, intelligent and innovative parents. We would also be (finally!) working toward a better educated population in general-which can only help as quite a few American adults think that the sun revolves around the earth and that a person can drive to Germany from the US. That, of course, would go against Bush 41's motto"keep 'em fat, dumb, and entertained" (the Nero approach)-but so far that hasn't been working too well for any of us.

[leftrightwingnut]

68. Light rail will happen. Gasoline will be so frickin' expensive...

...even the neocons will be begging for it. :D

[zalinda]

85. Has she told you about the Destiny Mall?

Well, I think the mall is, well, I'm not a shopper, let's put it that way. But, the green industries park that is supposed to be part of Destiny has peaked my interest. I hope that is up and running soon. And, because Syracuse has so many colleges within it's borders, it should totally go all free wi-fi. I have never understood why Syracuse hasn't taken advantage of all the college people that live here. It could be a high tech green center.

zalinda

[scarletwoman]

57. That's a wonderful metaphor!

"...let's keep seeding the clouds until we can make it rain."

I once read something -- years ago, and I have no idea where -- that said in order for a societal shift to happen, it takes 10% of the population embracing the new ideas.

Can we reach 1 in 10?

sw

[bobbolink]

102. the 100th monkey

when the hundredth monkey takes on a new habit, there is a shift, and the monkey population all takes on the new habit.

I think it came about with a group of Japanese monkeys, who learned to wash food in a pool.

[Jackpine Radical]

107. Als see Rupert Sheldrake's theories

[shireen]

65. "The same fat cats ..."

Lorien, apologize to your cats IMMEDIATELY! Then go clean the litter-box!
You are on this planet to serve them, so watch your tongue, you mere fur-challenged 2-legged mortal.

You could have said something more appropriate, like "The same fat cockroaches ..."

:P

[Lorien]

72. Lol! None of my cats are fat

I have two smallish fluffy ones and one giant hairy pussy (by that I mean Oberon-my svelte 20 pound Maine Coon) . :P

[bobbolink]

101. and we poor folk????

where do we stand in your list?

[avenger64]

49. You left out mass transit ...

... though I get your point, and it's a good one. Keep in mind that you are talking about an agenda, something that the current democratic leadership is terrified of pushing. It remains to be seen whether we can get real leadership that would put forth these types of ideas for the good of the nation. I don't think it will ever come out of the mouths of Pelosi and Reid, and I have my doubts about Clinton and Obama.

But I'm trying to stay positive.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. Mass transit and a million other things got left out.

Anyway, I'm at least hoping for the kind of "leader" who can figure out which way the crowd is moving and then get out in front of it. It's our job to get the crow moving.

[KG]

50. don't hold your breath waiting for a 'grand new vision' to emerge from the dem party.

[scarletwoman]

60. Oh hell no! It's got to come from US.

If we want anything to change, we've got to do it ourselves. The sooner progressives stop compromising themselves in order to support useless party pols, the sooner we can get down to the serious work of making change happen.

sw

[indepat]

51. Jackpine Radical: turning the mushrooming neocon PNAC wet dream into a nightmare

:D

[Jackpine Radical]

53. Heh-heh-I can only hope...

There's a vindictive little part of me that would like to see every one of them pay in full for their crimes.

Some day the number of eyeballs and brains hooked into the Internet is gonna hit critical mass and there's gonna be a global awakening. I keep thinking about Tielhard de Chardin's Noosphere.

[kentuck]

54. Sounds like a liberal Democratic agenda?

Which I agree with. Good ideas, Jackpine. We need to put people to work in a big way.

[varelse]

64. Damn, it sure did look familiar

that's right... it *is* the liberal Democratic agenda... back when I was still a Democrat... is there a snowball's chance in hell of it coming back any time soon? Because this election will definitely NOT be a re-run of that show, sadly.

[Jackpine Radical]

67. THEY aren't gonna do it.

WE have to do it. Time to resurrect populism.

[scarletwoman]

69. More like, back when DEMOCRATS were Democrats.

Now they barely even try anymore, except for Dennis Kucinich.

sw

[leftofthedial]

70. We need a NEW New Deal

bigtime

[tomp]

74. sorry, but i can't get entirely behind your vision...

...mainly because it assumes too much about the progressive intentions of the democratic party.

to conjur the image of fdr is to conjur the image of depression and war. the stage has been set, with the complicity of the democratic party, for fdr redux, and i'm not playing that game. dennis kucinich was the only hope we had of real change and the democratic party threw him under the bus.

all of your wish list is my wish list, but you do a disservice by suggesting that any "electable" democrat is going to be able, or willing, to bring that about.

[Jackpine Radical]

77. I don't especially see either of these two leading us to Utopia, but

they may at least provide an environment within which the people themselves can start demanding or making the changes. I keep thinking of the co-op movement and other expressions of populism from a hundred years ago. Those rends weren't government sponsored for the most part, but they really took off when they got the chance during the Depression.

[shireen]

81. another way to look at it

When I read the post, i didn't have the same reaction. I thought JackPine had done a brilliant job of
- laying out, with great clarity, what needs to be done (in broad terms) to save this country
- expressing hope that a Democratic president and congress would make positive changes in that direction

But most of all, his message was that it was up to us to make it happen. The politicians work for us, and they need to be reminded of that. If enough people get active, we can easily make the lobbyists and special interest groups irrelevant. It's a tough fight but we gotta start somewhere.

[Jacobin]

78. Jackpine...I would vote for you for president

Your list of priorities is exactly what I have thought would help get this beast of a country out of the bog and back on the right road.

:thumbsup:

[Jackpine Radical]

91. Fortunately for all concerned,

I ain't runnin' and ya can't make me run.

[Two Americas]

87. danger danger danger

But, but, but you are talking about stuff that is way, way, way over there to the far, far left - almost like FDR or RFK or Dr. King!!! We can't have that!! </sarcasm>

Social problems demand political solutions.

This where modern liberalism is a miserable failure, with people's infatuation with self-actualization and personalized and individual solutions based on personal preferences and lifestyle choices countering and sabotaging all discussion of collective action and public solutions to problems the public is facing. Again and again here when someone talks about a social problem most of the responses are about individualized solutions. This cripples any possibility of developing political power or having any effectivness.

I cannot understand the persistent and violent opposition among the more vocal and domineering Democrats and liberals to the program you are outlining here. There is more support for what you are saying among Republican voting blue collar people than there is among supposedly progressive and liberal political activists, and there are a thousand blue collar people who would support an FDR New Deal program for every upscale liberal activist who is aggressively blocking any consideration of a program like this.

[Jackpine Radical]

93. Yes, yes, yes.

I keep thinking about the REAL American traditions. I'm old enough to remember when neighbors would get together & build a barn for somebody. My uncle was a small farmer & he owned one major piece of field equipment, and each of his neighbors owned a different piece. When the time came to use the equipment, he would take his piece around to each farm in turn, and then each neighbor would bring their equipment around to everyone else's farm in turn. That way they minimized the amount of equipment each farmer had to own, and ensured that a large crew would be on hand on each farm as it was needed. That's what those old "threshing crews" were all about.

At its base, America was founded on cooperation much more than upon competition. It was quite natural for these farmers to create co-ops, especially in heavily Scandinavian-settled areas, because the Scandinavians brought the idea over from their homelands. Competition was a perverse invention of the capitalists.

[Two Americas]

97. more than that

The survival of the human race is founded on cooperation. Has any culture ever strayed so far from that reality than we have?

I work on small farms and what you say still exists, although the communities are sorely beleagured and under increasing duress.

[bobbolink]

105. I really believe the only way we're gonna crawl outta this mess is get rid of our rugged

individualism, and learn to form effective TRUE communities.

I don't know if we even can, but I see that as much more important than all the technological ideas.

[Jackpine Radical]

108. Put most simply, I agree.

[bobbolink]

103. what's really sad... POOR PEOPLE so many times also talk about personal solutions..

We've all be brain-jacked.

:cry:

[Jackpine Radical]

109. The right-wing propaganda machine is relentless.

[opihimoimoi]

100. Only with better voting to acquire better Leaders can we do this...

Poor voting gets us poor leaders..gets us poor decisions...gets us losing ground...gets us poorer overall....gets us recessions, gets us closer to the teeming masses syndrome....

The Pubs have been in Power too long....

[entanglement]

104. Good sound ideas - you could add 'end the Empire immediately'

to your list of measures to generate resources.

[Jackpine Radical]

110. I would hope that some of the specifics in my proposal would amount to that.

[OzarkDem]

106. Good points n/t