i just had a conversation with my son (responses requested)

[barbtries]

he's 15 years old and going to public school here in raleigh, nc. i was watching obama's speech after hearing it lauded as one of the most important speeches since MLK said i have a dream...but i digress.

well, maybe not. because i offered that the speech was not really as important as all that. MLK wasn't running for office. i mentioned that obama had to disavow his preacher for political reasons, and my son said:

HIS PREACHER? I THOUGHT HE WAS A NON-PRACTICING MUSLIM

and where did my son get this spectacular misinformation? his world history teacher. HIS TEACHER.

i am about ready to start calling for this person's dismissal. first he offers creationism and "intelligent design" as bona fide theories of history. then, during the lectures on early christianity, he tells the class that "god did this" and "god caused that" instead of couching it correctly in the context of "the early christians believed..." and now he's spreading the falsehood of obama's being a muslim.

i could give a rat's ass what religion obama is. i don't practice religion and have a pretty low opinion of organized religion. but when ignorance - that serves in a small minded world to perpetuate hatred and intolerance - is "taught" in a classroom by a "teacher" whose words are validated by the very position he holds. . .that pisses me off.

am i overreacting? does anyone have a suggestion about what if anything i should do about this?

[Slagathor]

1. I'd complain

religion has no place in public education--except where it is carefully debunked.

[barbtries]

2. thank you

i fear i have a tendency to go off too quick. i needed someone to tell me this is worth a call to the principal of the school.

[flor de jasmim]

3. I'd talk with the teacher first, to verify, before calling the principal

[livvy]

4. From a teacher's viewpoint...

No, I do not think you are overreacting. I never give my kids any information unless I know it is factually documented, and I do not wander into my own political beliefs, nor would I consider delving into religion. If kids have a question, I do not know the answer to, I either research to find out, or if appropriate to their age (4th grade), ask them to find out, and set an individual or team off to do the research. In the event of an opinion based discussion, all opinions are honored, as long as they have the facts to back up their viewpoints.

As a teacher, here are the steps that I prefer parents take:

1. Contact me to discuss the problem. I do not object if they contact the principal at the same time, like a cc in an email.

2. In the event we cannot come to an agreement, the principal should become involved, if they haven't already.

3. If an understanding still cannot be met, then I feel they are within their rights to contact central
administration.

This teacher has no business giving students false information, be it intentionally, or from ignorance. He should be expected to clarify to his students that he was mistaken, and apologize.

I would request a conference with this teacher. Be sure to bring along some news articles, or the article from Snopes that disputes his claim.

[barbtries]

6. this is great advice

thank you. i am hesitant to go straight to the teacher fearing that it could ricochet on my son in a negative way. i have to assume that this guy is not going to apologize; he may not even recognize that i have a point. you sound like a great teacher; i don't think my son has been blessed with a great teacher for world history this semester.

i really appreciate getting feedback on this issue. it's hard sometimes for me to be assertive in these situations. the last time i attempted to do so i was rebuffed by not only the teacher but the principal (a very different situation that i don't have the time or energy to recount here).

[GTurck]

34. Any retaliation

should be grounds for the teacher to lose his job. He is not there to indoctrinate children but to lead them to knowledge in an organized way. Vindictiveness and revenge have no place in schools.
Having said that I am aware that far too many teachers have behaved that way but only when they felt certain that parents or their own administration would not hold them to account. Parents are the number one guaranteer that teachers and schools really teach and that our children are educated.

[CRK7376]

50. I agree

As a former western NC high school history teacher that's the way I would go.
1) Talk with the teacher in question first.
2) If not satisfied, see the school principal.
3) Still not satisfied, go to the school board.

When I was teaching, it was facts that were presented. Unfortunately ever school has a few teachers that tend to stray out of their lanes and proselytize etc....Best of luck with your situation.

[Laughing Mirror]

5. Contact the school board and ask them if lying to students is common practice there

Demand disciplinary action, such as firing the teacher, and give them a time limit to do this.

[barbtries]

8. i like that

this is paving the way for a great dialogue between my son and me if nothing else. thank you

[OneGrassRoot]

7. I'm in Raleigh as well...

with a child in high school. I'm afraid to ask what school, but my child had a similar history teacher last semester. A big Huckabee fan.

Let me know if you need backup.

[barbtries]

9. thank you!

LRHS
sound familiar?

[OneGrassRoot]

26. Mine is in a different school, so that's even scarier...

that there are multiple teachers out there disseminating falsehoods. Oy.

[emanymton]

10. Get The FACTS First.

.

This would not be the first time a student got it wrong. (How many times has a teacher said one thing clearly and a listener not heard what was said?) It is quite possible, the teacher may have told your son exactly what your son told you.

But; is it possible your son misunderstood the teacher? Get more facts and information before you decide to act.

Should you learn that the source of the misinformation be your son's teacher (as your son told you) then go to the school board. Demand a formal investigation.

.

[barbtries]

11. apparently he did not get it wrong -

it was on a quiz. i'll get the quiz from him and verify that the correct answer per the teacher was as my son stated.

[MiniMe]

13. What is a question like that doing on a history quiz?

To me, the current political race has nothing to do with history, it is a current event. Will it become history? Of course it will, but this chapter has not been written yet.

[barbtries]

14. he's going to get the quiz for me to look at

later. basically he tells me that the question came about during the chapter on islam, and went something like, how do any of the three remaining presidential candidates relate to the muslim religion? i'm going to wait until i see the quiz before taking any action.

[LWolf]

31. He's quizzing the kids on Obama?

Something is not right with this picture.

Start with the teacher. Clarify the situation directly first, to be sure further action is warranted.

[flor de jasmim]

12. They're QUIZZING on Obama's religion?

[barbtries]

15. i don't know for sure

as pointed out upthread, it could be my son got it wrong. i doubt that. but i will wait to see the quiz and then decide where i go from there.

i love DU. this feedback is so, so helpful. thanks to all

[annabanana]

17. Keep us updated. . . . . .n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. If you're up for it ( I'm not sure *I'd * be), ask for a meeting and ask the guy...

... if he's aware that he's teaching in a *public* school.

If that doesn't work... it almost certainly will not... ask to speak to the principal. That won't work either, most likely, so maybe try a letter to the editor.

Keep in mind your son's a hostage in this place... socially speaking ; so keep him in the loop about what you're doing.

[barbtries]

19. absolutely i will

the bottom line at this point is that my son truly believed until about an hour and 1/2 ago that obama is muslim. and he learned this in school.
thanks for the feedback. i've got a lot to chew on between now and later when he produces the quiz. i suggested that - actually i requested that he speak up in class today to set the record straight. then i could get a sense of whether the teacher is as bad as i'm thinking he is.

[liberal N proud]

18. Call the school administration

Start with the principle, going to the teacher will do no good.
If the preacher doesn't do anything call the superintendent of schools
If they refuse to address your concern, call a good local television station with an investigative reporter (they like to stir up trouble).

My dad got a teacher fired many years ago because the teacher discriminated against students in his classes based on religion. He picked on Catholics mostly.

[Lasher]

20. Your son is being taught right wing propaganda

A typical email version of the 'Obama is a Muslim' lie is preceeded by an attempt to instill hatred against all Muslims. It is properly debunked here:

http://throwingstones.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/can-muslims-be-good-americans/

Read the article I have linked above, then ask your son what he thinks about Muslims. And more specifically, if he has ever been told by this teacher that Muslims can not be good Americans.

If his teacher has stooped so low as to have infected these children with such hatred, just go kick the teacher's ass. And mace him before you leave. Plus write BIGOT on his forehead with a sharpie.

[carpediem]

21. I sent you a PM n/t

.

[screembloodymurder]

22. Ask for his dismissal.

And if that doesn't work, demand it.

[kevinbgoode]

33. I'm with you on that one. . .

Now I teach college, and on occasion, I'll give students my perspective, but ALWAYS with the statement that it is MY perspective and that I don't expect them to embrace my thoughts. And I do that RARELY, primarily because I want them to think about their own ideas instead of trying to guess about mine and gauge their work according to what I think instead of what THEY think and how they process information to use in their own lives.

However, unless that teacher grounded the "muslim" remark on fact - or attributed it to an opinion with some kind of substantiation, there was no excuse for that crap in the classroom. If this teacher is dispensing his religious belief on the high school level as "fact" he is trying to indoctrinate a captive audience and not encouraging them to think on their own - at that level students are still programmed to spit back the "correct" answers and are quite savvy at basing those on what they perceive as the teacher's beliefs - rather than their own.

If that is the case, the instructor may be violating the religious beliefs of every student in the classroom, insisting on his right to "practice" his own as a basis for lecture, but creating an environment where students cannot disagree or express their own. It is, in my opinion, even worse if he is expressing political beliefs. The Obama "Muslim" thing is a right wing smear, and has nothing to do with someone's "deeply-held beliefs" unless this teacher's "deeply-held beliefs" include repeating information he wants to believe rather than information which is FACT.

As a college-level teacher who knows how many times the Right whines about the "liberal" bias in a college classroom (which isn't as true as the Right likes to claim). . .I can tell you that I'm acutely aware of professors who tout particular political beliefs in a classroom. I strongly resented a "conservative" professor who INSISTED we use patently, well-known right-wing news sources as a basis for gathering information, even though I knew how to identify inherent bias in the reporting. I also learned quickly to keep my mouth shut. But the difference was that, in graduate school, students are savvy enough to KNOW he was shoveling ideological crap at us.

To me, that is not the purpose of education. I don't think any teacher helps students by using the classroom as a platform for the dispensation of personal beliefs. If that instructor insists on dispensing religious/political beliefs, he can find employment at a religious school.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

23. I would go to the principal and if that didn't work, the school board. Period.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. You are not overreacting

Public school teachers have a responsibility to only teach and present FACTS. Also, they are NOT allowed to express their political or religious views in the classroom. I know-I taught in public schools for over 20 years.

First go to the principal. If that person refuses to do anything, lodge a complaint with the school board, demanding that the teacher be disciplined. Personally, I think firing would not be out of line.

[Lasher]

29. If the teacher is tenured it would be difficult to fire him.

You know that from having taught in public schools. You just about have to be caught on school property with a pipe bomb in the act of sex with one or more of the students while injecting them will illegal drugs.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

36. But we don't know about tenure

And if they are, they can be moved to a different teaching position. Tenure doesn't insure you keep the position you are in now. I've known tenured teachers who were "eased out" via change in assignments.

[Lasher]

38. Me too.

Home school assignments seem to be sort of like exile. I was just reacting to the thing about firing, that's all.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

40. It could happen, though

because most contracts had, at least at one time, a morals clause--and it wasn't about sex, it was about honest and integrity. But maybe this has changed since I left the profession.

[DiverDave]

25. Livvy has it right

you want a measured, intelligent response.
To go in wild eyed and shouting is wrong, tho you have cause for that imo.

Be calm and lay out the reasons why this cannot be accepted.

If this doesn't work, then get the principal and board involved...

Keep notes of your conversations, if on the phone, get their names and time you talked to them.

Contact other parents, see if they want to join you.

Keep us updated, I'm interested how this will come out

[Vinca]

27. OMG - if my kid came home and said that I'd go nuts!

Before you confront the teacher (so-called) I might sit the child down and try to find out what other fairy tales he's been told. No wonder our children "isn't learnin'."

[seabeyond]

28. i would be talking to teacher now, and principle and suggesting son do a report

on obama for extra credit to read to the class and teach the students what they dont get fromt he teacher and news

i have already put it out for my sons 7th grade teacher in his school. muslim same issue. not from teacher but i am hearing it from the kids so either parents or news.

[MindPilot]

32. Wait, the teacher screws up and your response is to make the STUDENT do extra work?

I'm glad you're not my mom!!

Today's Lesson: "Blaming the Victim"

[seabeyond]

35. make learning and growing and excelling victimization.... geez glad you arent

sons mom. ... lol. it is good for him and something he does really really well. it is something he would want the class to know and no place to give it to the fellow student. instead he has to listen to them say stupid false things

no, ... my son wouldnt see it as a punishment or even work per se and certainly wouldnt be in the victim mode

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

39. I get what you are saying

If the child was a student leader, and the teacher one that was not liked, I could see this maybe working. But then I'm one who, even as a student, loved doing research and the like. However, it could backfire if the teacher is liked--he or she could set all the child's peers against him for standing up, and make a bad situation worse.

[seabeyond]

42. i just kow our situation. know the teachers, know students and principle

there is a relationship so can speak intellectually, academically without it being confrontational. plus living in religious belt and children going to christian private school for 6 yrs lol, they have learn to argue, contradict without being offensive, but respectful

all good lessons for children to learn into adulthood

also my son has been talking religiously and politically for years so wouldnt be abrasive or unusual or shock for students to hear contradictive ideas.

plus, i gotta say son in middle and son in elementary, here in texas more and more repugs and the religious pulling away from repug and talking about both hillary and obama. they arent as opposed to hearing truth opposed to lie

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

46. glad to know that there are more sane Texans

than my brother in law and his family!

[seabeyond]

45. i am just to middle school 7th grade with kids. havent made to highschool

with thought, highschool might be a different situation. will have to see

[tachyon]

41. The principle?

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

43. i have a good relationship with our principle, always have thru out kids years

and to discuss, not accuse, not demand, but to discuss with intent for the best of all. not to demand teacher fired. that is the lazy way many adults handle life today, ... back in the past not everything was confrontational.

there is nothing wrong with pointing out when a non truth is being given to our children in an academic environment. at what point are reasonable parents and adults going to get involved in a manner that is a positive lesson for the children.

[tachyon]

47. Uh......never mind

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

49. are you

one of those people that just make exaggerated sighs, and grunts ect... without much else to offer. your posts are looking like a penitent child or something. if there is nothing to say but rolling eyes, .... what is the point.

[Ghost in the Machine]

51. I think he was trying to point out that it's spelled "principal", but wasn't very adept at it...n/t

[seabeyond]

52. pal.... right. i got it wrong. i know better.... ty. just shoot me. n/t

[tanyev]

30. Props to your son for grasping the contradiction so quickly.

They can't simultaneously be outraged that Obama is a Muslim AND that he has been a member of a so-called "hate-filled" church for 20 years. Gotta pick one or the other.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[B Calm]

44. I hear right-wingers everyday calling Obama a muslim. I now have

something to throw back at their claim. I ask them why is Obama on TV explaining to the country about the actions of his christian pastor? Then SILENCE from the cons...

[margotb822]

48. Call and speak to the teacher

and if he confirms what your son told you, complain to the principle, superintendent, BOE, everyone. Get a movement going!

[Fireweed247]

53. no child left behind when we catapult the propaganda

I think it is great that you will fight this, but you should not have to. Teachers should not be allowed to write History exams based on what they hear on Limbaugh on the way to school.

I believe this is purposeful and systemic. They are using "no child left behind" to drive the good teachers out of the schools and replace them with fundie nutcases. Bravo to you for catching this, but imagine what other crap they are teaching everyone's children. You see your children for a few hours at night, you have no control over the political brainwashing that is going on. Indoctrination into the police state, we had to go to Iraq to save them etc.

Homeschooling- not just for fundies anymore.

[Senator]

54. Not overreacting. But perhaps over-acting.

I have a couple of nits to pick with advice you've gotten so far. Do of course confirm as far as you can the source of the false information (quiz question, anything else). Find out if your son has discussed this with anyone else -- friends, other teachers, etc.

On getting the "Snopes" documentation of the slander against Obama. I'd bring with you -- or at least review and keep handy if on the phone -- far more than that. As good as it is, "Snopes" is just some internet thingy. I would have quotes (short ones) to read from legitimate news outlets -- and articles (long ones) with extra copies to hand out -- not opinions, though some of those might be useful as well.

Where I'd differ with most folks above is that I'd go to the principal first -- but with a question, not an accusation. In this context going to the teacher is an accusation, no matter how politely you portray the situation.

Ask the school to investigate how your son came home with such a "politically-charged, slanderous statement about a public official." It may well be that the history teacher is not the only one "teaching" RNC talking points and the principal might be well-served in dealing with this by not having a ongoing parent/teacher argument to mediate. It might even keep you and your son shielded if the principal can and does act discretely.**

You can always escalate later***. But maintaining the "just want to know what's going on around here" attitude for as long as possible could yield the results you want without unnecessary acrimony and/or blowback.

Now, for some seemingly-silly suggestions -- mainly for if/when you escalate.

You don't say if you're a single parent or not, but I would suggest having someone with you at all meetings -- preferably a man (I know, I know) -- even better, a large man (yes, really). That's if you're really alone in this, if you could find one or two other parents similarly outraged, that would be the best for an escalation (if any of those parents are large men, all the better).

Another thing (even more silly-sounding), is that if you think you might have/want to show any of the backup documentation, bring and show a lot of it. By that I mean a large pile to wave (include the extra copies in the pile). And have many varied sources and quotes to read (highlight them or make a separate page).

The thing is, these people really do equate might with right and quantity with quality. I know that doesn't make any sense but you are looking to change their behavior, not "teach them" to be better people. We in the reality-based, tolerance community often forget that many of these people really are the neanderthals they seem to be -- and the object here is to "win" the confrontation.

---
** It might also help to have a suggested course of action ready should you be met with real or feigned haplessness ("well, what can I do about it?"). I think the principal might be able to deal with this by addressing the staff as a whole. By letter or meeting, report that these particular circumstances have come to his attention -- warn the staff about including these sorts of things in the classroom -- and require that anyone who has conveyed such information to students take corrective action and report their correction to the office so that it can be confirmed.

*** All that said, I think you'd be justified in screaming for this teacher's immediate dismissal, without references. And threatening to bring busloads of activists, and even Obama himself, to the school to protest what they've been doing to brainwash our children with taxpayer money. (But that's just me. I don't have to live there.)

--