Here's a reason why you can't support a family on one person's income now.

[raccoon]

$650 to go to a fricking high school prom.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3029178

And the attendees all have a rent a limo, for godsake, just for a high school prom.

If average Americans think all this is necessary, they have been seriously brainwashed.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I didn't go to a prom

but then, I wasn't asked, either. But that seems to be a horrible amount of money to spend on what is really just a party. Better to use the funds to do something useful--like help remodel a house for a poor family. I was so proud of my nephew, who, when he was in college, spent his spring break down south building homes for Habitat for Humanity. Those memories will linger longer, I think, because of all the people whose lives were touched by his actions.

[Catshrink]

6. Ours was cancelled

not enough people bought tickets so it was scrapped.

[musette_sf]

21. we didn't have one

in protest of the military-industrial complex and the injustice of the Viet Nam conflict.

well, that was what we SAID, anyway.

actually i think that not that many girls in my all-girls HS had dates, and we thought it was stupid to go through with it all just to dance with a pimply cousin or neighbor boy wearing a rented suit.

[raccoon]

82. I thnk you were smart. I went to one prom. It was an experience similar to what you described. nt

[shanti]

31. neither did i

wasn't asked, didn't go. :shrug: life goes on...

[Samurai_Writer]

96. I didn't go either

I was already living with my future husband during my senior year in high school. Since we all know proms are just an excuse to get laid, I didn't feel the need to go, since I was already getting some at home.

[90-percent]

2. extravagance

wasn't there some military industrial congressional complex war profiteer kind of guy from Long Island that gave his daughter a bar mitzvah at madison square garden with aerosmith?

Now THAT was expensive!

[debbierlus]

3. That is bs - most people aren't spending that type of money

On a prom...

That is a REPUBLICAN talking point....Most people are working two jobs to put FOOD on the table.

[raccoon]

5. I sure hope MOST high school students aren't spending that kind of money on proms.

However I know when my niece went to her prom in late 80's, somebody rented a limo. My sister said they were all doing that. Which I thought was over the top.

[ellenfl]

9. but it keeps the kids from drinking AND driving. eom

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. True, although I would just as soon they weren't drinking in the first place

[seabeyond]

52. this was my thought.

i was thinking dont know that i would be allowing a hotel room anyway. kids did it in my day, parents said no. will have to see.

i do think a lot of parents dont think they can/are allowed to make boundaries.

[GreenPartyVoter]

57. No drinking. No hotel room. I didn't have a date to my prom, not because

I lacked a bf but because he came from a religious family. I hope hubby will let the kids go to dances, not that he is against dancing but there is always a concern about booze, drugs, indiscriminate sex that goes on as well sometimes.

Feh. I am glad my kids are only 8 and 10 and this issue is still a few years off for us.

[seabeyond]

59. my almost 13 is here lecturing me on what a good son he is.....

dont talk bad about me to his friends, no myspace, no cell phone, good grades, respectful to me unlike other teenagers, yada yada

i wasnt listening to him, reading your post as he was going on and on, and i realized, .... he wants to use my puter.

my kids 10 and almost 13.... i believe, i believe, .... it is in the parenting, time and connection with child. i have always listened and given kids respect and i get it back

anyway.... i have let son go to first couple dances at jr high. he is so trustworthy. but the best, i get to be the one that picks up, drops off, listen to the boys and know what is going on.... they come to my house. i am not afraid, lol lol.

[JuniperLea]

62. My kids are now 23, 25, and 28...

I was that mom too:)

My daughter didn't get a cell phone until she was 18... shocking, I know. My middle kid was always known as "Responsible Josh"... even at five years of age when he went running out of the house just after dark to tell his friend Kristen that her bike was left out front and she'd better put it away before it gets stolen!

That 'tween time is so precious! Enjoy! I look back very fondly on those years. It is in the parenting. Pat yourself on the back! I do! hahaha! Not many people recognize good parenting these days, so you have to take your kudos as they come... even if you give and receive yourself!

[seabeyond]

64. thanks juniperx, excellent post....

my oldest is a little of josh. the years go fast.

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. My kids are generally good but we have two problems lately. 1) they don't

do things when they are told. I have to get after them 1000 times before something happens. 2) they are getting to be wise-acres and really push to be funny when it's not appropriate, especially the 10 year old. He used to be my easy one! :cry:

Ah well. It's all part of growing up. :)

[seabeyond]

69. lol lol ya.... it comes and goes. peace reigns then i find myself

repeating the same thing and it is like, hey.... we went thru this 3 months ago. then it settles down again. my youngest went thru the part of thinking funny but really simply disrespectful.... was able to convince him i didnt like it.

then i remember when i was a kid and you know

not a lot different

hence why we have a school to send the kids away to for 8 hours a day, lol survival.

[JuniperLea]

86. Yep, it is... don't give up!

I think all kids go through that stage where they think they are smarter than their parents, and they try to push the margin on what they can or cannot do. Kids and dogs... 1000 times... yep. Just don't give up. That's where the problems start, when parents give up and give in. That is the desired outcome the kid is pushing for. Notice kids shopping with parents. How many times do you see parents NEGOTIATING with their kids? There's no negotiating! This isn't a democracy! This is me being the parent and you being the kid, meaning, I'm the boss and you are not. The other parent you see is the one who buys the kid something just to shut them up. That sets you up for a lifetime of giving the kid something to shut them up... a toy... a stereo... expensive clothes... a car... the price gets higher every time! Just say no. If a kid thinks they can push you and whine and fuss until they get their way, guess what? They are going to whine and fuss until they get their way! We as parents condition that action by giving in.

It's not easy. But when they are adults and they shop with you and complain about unruly kids and how their parents are NOT handling the situation, you will understand how your child appreciates how you raised them... and they will appreciate what you did so they did NOT look like the unruly child that's now getting under their own skin!

Ok... stepping down from the soapbox now:)

[seabeyond]

89. yep yep yep.... geez you and i think a lot alike as parents. you say not easy

but i really have a feeling if did ever allow the child to win on this it would be a hell of a lot more, not easy. lol

to just leave it at not a democracy. you kid, me parent. not your friend, you mama..... lol lol. keeps it real simple in this house. lol.

[JuniperLea]

94. Not your friend! Perfect!

Exactly. It's not my job to be my kid's friend, it's my job to parent. Kids will love you for caring enough to discipline them. Oh, some of the feistier kids will yell and scream and say "I hate you Mom!" ... crazy stuff. They don't "hate you" forever:) Responding with an "I love you" will stick. Yes, I have a feeling those parents who give in are having a lot harder time of things than we are/did!

I'm so pleased to find another parent like me!

:hug:

[JuniperLea]

63. I'm betting you wouldn't let your...

Buxom, beautiful, blond, 18-year-old daughter go to Aruba either;)

[JuniperLea]

54. A lot of people I know can't say "no" to their spoiled kids

Just recently a friend of mine said his daughter threw a fit when they GAVE her a mini van to use while in college... but... but... but... all her friends are driving Beemers! She can't possibly be seen in a soccer mom van!

:eyes:

Trust me. Rather than show some spine, a lot of parents will do without themselves out of fear of pissing off their rotten kids!

[seabeyond]

56. i am thinking so too.... n/t

[marions ghost]

104. so true...and you don't have to be rich to be spoiled...

my nephew is getting married to a nice young woman this year. But she thinks she has to have a Bridezilla wedding with thousands spent on food and flowers for 200 people. The bride has a huge school loan debt and the families are not wealthy. It is absurd and it will be hard for the groom's more practical side of the family to enjoy the whole thing--it's such a racket. They are getting ripped off.

The bigger issue is that the parents just cannot say "no" to this daughter, even if they spend the rest of their lives paying off the wedding. She has always been indulged. :crazy:

[asjr]

4. In my high school days our

Southern Baptist principal would not allow us to have one. That was 1950. He is dead now.

[Hippo_Tron]

78. Did Kevin Bacon come and make him change his ways before he died?

[jwirr]

7. Things have not changed a great deal - only the inflation - I did not

attend the prom because my family could not afford enough food and heat let alone a fancy dress for a party. That was back in 1970. During the Depression and in the 60-70s churches finally figured out that a clean pair of blue jeans or a coverall are just as respectable as a business suit and much cheaper. Maybe schools should try a little economic equality in their proms for a change.

[acmavm]

8. Yeah, the OP thought there was nothing wrong with the 650.00 shit

until she got called on it. Then it was another story.

NO DAMN HIGH SCHOOL function should cost 650.00. No kid should be allowed to have 650.00 to waste on a prom.

Giving girls who can't afford a dress was okay. But maybe they should have been taught it's not what you wear, it's who you ARE, what you BELIEVE, that counts.

[nashville_brook]

11. the girls who can't afford a dress, like me, are well aware of this lesson thankyouverymuch...

couldn't afford a prom. couldn't afford a wedding dress (or a honeymoon, or anything).

yeah, it's "what you ARE" that counts, but jesus christ it gets old having to tell yourself that instead of just being able to buy the damn dress.

[acmavm]

13. I quit going to the damn proms I was invited to just because I

didn't WANT to spend a shitload of money on a dress. Or shoes. Or have anyone messing with my hair.

(This was when I was a junior.) I'd been to 4 of 'em by then. That was pretty much 4 too many. I liked the ordinary sock hops (remember them) better.

[nashville_brook]

23. and so everyone should be as enlightened as you. got it.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

26. i dont know. we grew up without, and i never felt bad. i mean,....

money certainly wasnt thrown around and when we got something it was appreciated, but i gotta tell ya, ... didnt feel bad either. i had good parents, food on table, essentials taken care of and with hording my parents were able to give us extras here and there. seemed good enough for me.

now i have enough, my kids have and still i say the same no to my kids, my parents did to me. why? cause i dont want them to feel entitled like so many today.

[lildreamer316]

28. She only gets ONE chance at a prom. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

45. I'm sure it just comes from a lifetime of disappointments

Sorry if it is "inconvenient" for you to realize that.
You CHOSE not to go to your prom. However, it sounds like the choice was made for her due to financial reasons.
Quit being a jerk.
You haven't walked in her shoes so you have no fucking idea what it is like to do so.

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. Nice attitude. Sure things are tough all over, but it's still a heckuva lot

tougher for some than others.

[acmavm]

67. Yep, and a frigging prom and not having 650.00 to spond is the true test.

[PVnRT]

88. Grow up

Maybe you ought to learn that other people function differently from yourself, and learn to understand that, instead of just being a jackass and demanding that ALL be exactly like you.

[acmavm]

97. I expect people to behave in a decent, humane, intelligent manner and

not act like the idiots from that website that shalt not be mentioned. I expect them to know better than to think that spending more than some people make a month on a high school dance if fucking ridiculous. I expect them to teach their children to have better values that that.

And I would also expect people like you to be ashamed of yourself for even displaying your ignorance so publically.

[bobbolink]

19. I'm totally with you! It's just another (slick) way to blame the victim.

"Be stronger!"

(while we turn the other way....)

:(

Thanks for your words.... you speak for many. :thumbsup:

[seabeyond]

27. wow and i eloped and wore a white dress i borrowed from mom

wedding cost a hundred cause.... i didnt want to spend money.

i guess some of us dont mind so much to live within means..... and i dont mean that to be mean. but because i dont think it is so wrong to hear it from another point of view.

[bobbolink]

30. then hear this..... try being really POOR.

then reread your words, and listen to how insensitive they are.

[seabeyond]

33. is not having money for food poor enough.....

do we have a comparative scale of when we are poor enough to talk about our experience, and when just kinda poor. i was really really poor late teens all thru 20's.

and still....

no i do not think my words are insensitive.

i didnt feel the victim then. i dont feel the victim looking in the past. it was hard. for a long time. not being really really poor is much better. but food was more concern than a prom dress, for me anyway

maybe it is because things arent important to me.

but, to not be able to put out another perspective isnt the answer either.

[bobbolink]

36. Then be hardhearted. Be tough. Don't care what others are telling you

about *THEIR* experiences.

BUT... and this is a BIG BUT.... DON'T turn around and judge the RW for the very same thing!

It's no different.

[seabeyond]

37. nah

the thing, there has not been enough interaction between you and i for you to really come to so much of that judgment in your post. i bet if we sat and talked back and forth, probably there would be an understanding. but that isnt what it is about for you.

your post couldnt be more off from what i was saying and the intent in it. much better to do some yelling and stomp off...

so much of that going on today

[Breeze54]

70. Well said!

:hug:

[uppityperson]

17. But, the OP was posting "recycle dresses" info also.

Got off on a tangent in our subthread. I agree with what you write. Obviously.

[trof]

10. When did this limo thing start?

If we were lucky enough, we took the family jalopy.
If not, we double dated with a buddy who did have a car.

[shanti]

32. my son is planning to rent a limo this year

his senior prom...with a group of his friends. it's actually not too bad when a group goes along. i'd much prefer that than driving while sloshed.

[JuniperLea]

58. I graduated in 1975...

And I know my cousin went to prom in one, and she graduated three years ahead of me!

Might be regional... I live in Los Angeles... soooo...

My b/f and I always joke when we see a limo... "Must be a movie star!!!" "Must be a rich person!" I worked for three different billionaires over the past 15 years, and NON of them would be caught DEAD in a limo! Mainly because they lived in fear of being kidnapped... or having their children kidnapped... never wanted to draw that much attention to themselves... a Lincoln towncar was as flashy as they'd get... and still they looked over their shoulders a lot... but I digres... :)

[Blue Diadem]

12. That was going on in the early 90's here, my oldest did the limo thing

My daughter's date didn't rent a limo, just a nice car and my youngest didn't use a limo but then he was never into doing something just because "everyone" was doing it.

My oldest son's date backed out a week before their Jr. prom..funny that girl has been his wife for over 10 yrs now. He ended up taking two co-worker older(out of HS) girls to the prom in the limo and had a blast. He paid for every penny of it by himself..back then it was close to $500. His Senior prom he didn't spend as much..maybe due to taking only one girl instead of two.

Our rule was(and we were both working then)..if you are going to spend an enormous amount of money, you pay for it yourself..and guess what they all paid for their own prom stuff. I remember my daughter buying a beautiful dress,(we still have it here)It was one that was marked 1/2 off because there was seam tear in the underskirt that I was able to repair.

This is a rural area too. I was shocked that Limo's were such a big deal for proms.

[Locrian]

14. red hearing

This is a distraction - this IS the new economy. Basically you are right, in that the system is now gamed so that if we DONT spend on crap it will collapse. Which is is going to HAVE to do in order to stop using up the plantets resources on crap like $650 proms.

[JVS]

15. Ohhh come on. Prom is not a constant monthly cost, and it isn't mandatory.

It's a drop in the bucket compared to the 20K that will be dropped when that kid goes to the first year of college

[uppityperson]

16. Indeed. Teaching kids that spending that much, like recycling dresses, is a really good thing.

You don't need to spend that much to have a good time. Unless you are a repub congressman.

[Horse with no Name]

18. All of us parents kicked in $25 each for a limo

for 16 kids.
The kids had a good time and we didn't have to worry about them.

[shanti]

34. exactly

:thumbsup:

[LanternWaste]

20. A $650 Prom Dress doesn't really sound any better or any worse than

A $650 Prom Dress doesn't really sound any better or any worse than blowing that same amount on an X-box and some games (of which, it seems half the people I know think that X-boxes and DVD-players are necessities...).

[dembotoz]

22. so if i can convince the kids they are really ugly i can save$$$$

It worked when my parents did it to me...

[seabeyond]

24. i just say no.... to a lot of things, and we can afford. i agree, so much ridiculous

and i say no.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. I say no to my kids on a lot of things too, but they still have a lot of

"stuff". But as they outgrow it, we give it away. Nothing makes me madder than people tossing perfectly good stuff, or boxing it up and just letting it sit around unused.

[seabeyond]

42. $650 i would absolutely say no to. i would pay a small amount, anything beyond

they can pick it up with their own money.

i dont have an issue saying no. or if i think it is frivolously spending money saying no to.

last year 3rd grade son wanted a yearbook to go to yearbook party. $20. they have parents spend so much all year for so many uncalled for things. i always go beyond my part because i have empathy for the family struggling not able to get it or those with lots of kids. the pta did the buy a yearbook and get to go to party. i was sooooo mad. end of year, a whole year of money from parents and now they bribe the kids with a party. what about all those kids whose parents cant afford a damn $20 year ook and kid not get to go.

i told kid no

he was mad, upset, wanted to go really bad. told him not a chance cause too many kids that cant afford would be left out and i wouldnt be a part of it

lesson, only a lesson, a lesson for my son and him doing without cause what pta did was wrong

it isnt hard to say no to my kids. when i feel a lesson is there

i would not spend that money at a prom

i would add in $25 bucks, but i would not pay for a limo

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. Yearbook party? Sheesh! I think we budgeted our yearbooks in or the PTF is paying for them

Not sure. But we've always gotten one and never paid a yearbook fee of some kind. :shrug:

I guess we are really lucky living in a tiny rural town. Things seem so much simpler here.

[Ilsa]

29. We are also required to send our little ones to school with

individual juice boxes that are disposable. none of that plastic bottle stuff that you wash and re-use.

And everyone has to have a brand new bottle of water every time they get thirsty.

And $3.50 coffee drinks when they go out with their friends.

And buy their casual reading books instead of borrowing them from the library.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. It's amazing all this hullaballoo going on over PROM

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

40. i dont know the whole issue. see there is another post about donating dresses

think that is grand. i thought it was a post about demanding too much. i think i stepped into a pile of doo doo

all for donating. a huge fan of giving away

[GreenPartyVoter]

41. Yeah, I participated in that other thread, and like you I love the idea

of reusing dresses and helping kids out.

I also agree that Prom costs are excessive these days, but there are ways around it and dress donations is just one of them. :)

[seabeyond]

44. so what is the fight, lol. i havent been in hte other thread. reusing is ok isnt it

they are hardly used and a waste so often, worn once and that is it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

47. *scratches head* Thread went off somewhere along the lines of

consumption is bad = proms are bad??? I dunno. I didn't follow that section too closely, but it may well have been a misunderstanding.

[seabeyond]

48. lol lol thanks green.... n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. For my part...

Reuse is good.

I feel about it the same way I'd feel about an article saying:
SUV donation drive

With the average high school boy spending $50,000 to purchase an SUV to impress their friends, is it any wonder
many of the area’s high school boys will never experience the special thrill of showing up in a cool car?

Anton's motors is making sure every boy who wants to own an SUV is able to with its fourth annual Be Joe Cool
SUV collection program, currently running through April 15. “Every boy who wants to go to school in a bitchin ride should have the opportunity,”
said Charles A. Anton, president of Anton’s Motors. “We encourage everyone who has an SUV
they no longer use to donate it for this special event, either by dropping it off at their local Anton’s or at Jordan’s Hot Rods.”

In Malden, SUV's may be dropped off at the 780 Main St. store.

“We appreciate every donated rig,” said store manager John Castrucci.

They can be any make and model, but must be free of damage, only “gently used
and cannot be more than three to four years old.

... and for the same reasons. The expectations are socially destructive. Reuse of something that shouldn't be used in the first place, for the purpose of raising it a couple of notches in Maslow's heirarchy of need is not doing the recipient any favors.

[GreenPartyVoter]

98. Sorry; saying a dress is like an SUV is like saying shoplifting gum is the same as committing murder

[lumberjack_jeff]

99. The prom isn't a need, it's a want.

The size and scope of the event escalates each year until it is now far beyond the simple and appropriate purpose of socializing with your friends and classmates. The only rational purpose of spending many hundreds of dollars on a dance is to impress the neighbors and Aunt Ruthie whose kids didn't get the limo.

The SUV evolved in exactly the same way. It left behind its utilitarian/transportation roots long ago. To say that those who can't afford one are unfortunate objects of pity escalates the cultural expectation that owning (a really good) one is something to which everyone should desire and to which they should be entitled.

Car dealers and event planners rejoice.

[LanternWaste]

103. Much like the costs of console...

"The size and scope of the event escalates each year until..."

Much like the costs of console gaming systems. Simple extravagances justified by millions to defend their purchase of even more extravagant waste.

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. If you're more comfortable with that analogy - okay.

Unlike a prom, the best designer clothes or I-phones or a cool car, I don't see the desire for the latest x-box 360 as driven by bragging rights and social heirarchy.

Admittedly it could be a guy thing. We bought a PS2 several years ago because it played the games we wanted to play. A PS 3 may be in the cards someday if there's a game that justifies it.

[LanternWaste]

107. For both gaming consoles and proms...

For both gaming consoles and proms, the valid justifications, defenses and criticism are interchangeable.

[LanternWaste]

102. After some times, the differences in degrees

After some times, the differences in degrees become so dramatic and so vast, that an analogy tends to break down and eventually becomes invalid.

[raccoon]

79. Average, shmaverage, still conspicous consumption. nt

[NashVegas]

43. The OP Was Well-Intentioned, and Accepting of Reality

You and I may not like that reality. Personally, I think it's bullshit. But you'll never convince a 17 YO that they don't need a limo and a ritzy hotel room to party til dawn for prom night if you don't / can't offer a healthy alternative.

It's circular; in *very* strong families, there's a lot that can be made to work on the cheap.

[JuniperLea]

50. My friends and I held an "Anti-Prom" Party!

It ruled! Back in the day it would have cost me half that, including tickets, dress, shoes, limo (yes... even in the stoned age we did the limo thing). My pals and I decided to take about half that money and throw a big party! A lot of poor kids attended who couldn't afford the prom and that made us feel really good about what we'd done. It was a personal protest up to that point, but seeing all the kids who couldn't have done the prom anyway enjoying themselves and thanking us for the good idea and the killer party, well, that was about as good as it gets. R&B and surf and metal until dawn's early light! Mom took about a dozen of us out for breakfast at five in the morning... she was proud of the anti-peer-pressure stance we took... good times!

[GreenPartyVoter]

53. Nice alternative. :^) We live in a rural area so prom (at least back in the 80s) wasn't out

of reach. If you couldn't buy a dress you borrowed one or wore a hand-me-down or made one. Whatever. It was still held in the HS gym. The same old couple who always called the promenade was there during both times I went. (Do many proms even still have the actual promenade any more??)

[seabeyond]

55. this.... i can go for. more my style too

i am going to remember for when my kids are older. thanks juniperx. we have a huge basement and hubby has been spending a lot of time making it a game room. perfect. (did your parents allow booze?)

[JuniperLea]

60. Not at that party...

But at family parties, hell yeah! Irish, ya know;) Mom didn't want to be held responsible for other kids drinking at our house, so she wouldn't allow it. I'm sure at least a few kids slipped out back... we had a huge fruit orchard out back and you could easily hide in the dark... but they didn't let my mom see. She stayed out of our hair for the most part, but made an occasional appearance...

I've been loving the Irish whiskey since I was single digit in years... grandpa used it as a cure-all... toothache on a Sunday and no dentist around, here, Junie! Hold this swig on that tooth for a few minutes. Sore throat? Here Junie! Gargle this! MMMMMmmmm... hehehe! I never got more than a buzz to be honest. But it was common to have a sip of oatmeal stout or whatever was being poured at family gatherings. You got the smackdown if you tried to go too far, that's for sure!

I highly recommend the anti-prom party! You might be surprised at how many kids, and parents, support the idea. A basement would work perfectly! Kids can make all the noise they want, loud music, whatever! Just keep the sodas and pizza and finger foods handy.

[seabeyond]

61. Irish, ..........lol lol. we are a lot, but not as much as yawl. hey

i wouldnt/couldnt allow booze either. was asking to see if kids would do a non booze party. but probably more your way, they just slip around. coolest. thanks for the idea.

[tjwash]

66. PROM?? Shit...that's what a months worth of groceries cost now for a family of 5.

Disgusting isn't it?

[salin]

68. Just heard that the expectation of a local prom

is to have a "red carpet", and to have the couples announced as they arrive as if they are celebrities attending the Oscars. I guess I have grown into an old fuddy duddy, but I find the whole thing a bit ridiculous.

[conflictgirl]

71. I call bullshit on that explanation

I don't have kids in high school yet and sure as hell can't afford to support my family on one income. It's not a $650 prom - it's the $50-$100 a week for gas in your car (depending on the model you have, how much driving you have to do etc) adding up that's causing the need for a second income. Or the fact that housing costs and inflation are increasing at a FAR faster rate than wages. Or the fact that thousands of living-wage jobs disappear each year with only part-time-no-benefits McJobs to replace them.

There are lots of reasons that you can't support a family on a single income now. Saying that $650 for a prom is the cause is like saying that Saddam caused 9/11...just ain't so. And even if some statistic somewhere says that the "average" prom cost is $650 and that kids are renting limos, it sure as hell ain't ALL of them. At least around here, most people DON'T spend that much or rent limos. Was there some kind of tiff in GD: P with the poster of that other thread or something that I don't know about because i don't read that forum? Something seems WAY out of proportion in the reactions.

[Breeze54]

72. No, some just didn't like the article I posted.

:P

And off it went.... :shrug: I think the people who got their panties in a twist only read
the first line of that article and then posted. Some argued for 6 or 7 posts but conceded,
finally to another poster, that helping the poor and giving them one 'special' night might
be a good thing after all. :eyes: Why it took 7 posts to concede what had been stated in
the beginning is a mystery to me. :shrug: I'm guessing people think prices are the same all
across the country but $650.00 in the Boston area (one of the most expensive places to live
in the USA btw) isn't that much here when you add up all the costs; if one wanted the best
of everything for their prom night. Most kids pool thier mony to rent a limo so they don't
have to drive or they don't have a car or just because it's fun for one night! ONE NIGHT!
But fortunately, many who posted there got the gist of the OP. To help out disadvantaged youth.

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. I apologize. I overreacted to your op.

You're right. I did in fact get my panties in a twist after reading the first line.

I don't usually lose my cool like that, and I'm sorry.

That said, when the press (and the event industry) sets the expectation that parents (the ones who love their kids only enough to spend the average of other parents) should spend $650 on their kids prom night, I think it should be a wake-up call. A wake-up call that promoting and escalating cultural expectations is grossly unhealthy. The plug needs to be pulled entirely.

Respectfully, the kids who don't/can't participate in this are better off. IMHO, kids who want for the most rudimentary basics of life - whose needs are not met - are done a disservice by treating a $650 prom as yet another need.

Kenneth Hoagland was exactly right to call it "bacchanalian".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4350764.stm

About this topic: The expectation that every kid can, and in fact should, live a lifestyle that they might see on TV - I am passionately opposed to.

Flinging a kid onto the merry-go-round of escalating expectations is not a charitable act.

[Breeze54]

76. I accept your apology and I'm sorry for calling you a dimwit.

I understand where you are coming from and I'm pretty much the same as you, as far as consumerism is concerned. I've lived a very frugal life and my kids aren't spoiled at all but are loved immensely. But I also think this is a once in a lifetime event and if there are poor kids that would like to attend, I see no harm in trying to help them out with used/recycled gowns and jewelry or whatever someone is willing to help them with. I remember being 17 and at that time in my life, although I was a "little rebel"; still "The Prom" was a really big deal to my friends and even though I really wasn't that interested in it, I decided I really did want to go because it was going to be the last time I could spend time with them. I think having dresses donated to them teaches them to give back, so it's all good, in the long run.

:hug:

[raccoon]

83. Well said, Jeff.

"That said, when the press (and the event industry) sets the expectation that parents (the ones who love their kids only enough to spend the average of other parents) should spend $650 on their kids prom night, I think it should be a wake-up call. A wake-up call that promoting and escalating cultural expectations is grossly unhealthy. "

[raccoon]

81. I said A reason not THE reason. And I meant conspicous consumption, not just proms.

I am well aware, thank you, that medical costs, housing, education, energy have increased WAY in cost in the last few decades. And that most people's wages/salaries have not kept up. Mine sure as hell haven't.

But lots of people EXPECT a lot more, CONSUME a lot more, than they did in the days of yesteryear when "you could live off one person's income."

[Hippo_Tron]

75. OMG!!! It's the Welfare Prom Queens!!!

:eyes:

[Breeze54]

77. **spits on keyboard**

:spray:

[Gormy Cuss]

92. DUzy!

[Ordr]

80. Proms are ridiculous.

I'll bet that $650 doesn't even cover the DUI bail or abortion.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

84. Prom is hardly the reason families are struggling

It was expensive in my day, too, and that was the 1960s. No limos, but formal dress, hair appointments, and pre-prom dinners out.

Try inflation with stagnating or reduced wages.

[raccoon]

85. Perhaps I should have worded my OP differently.

I'm not saying proms are the reason families are struggling, but conspicuous consumption is the reason.

Many people nowadays have been brainwashed to think they HAVE to consume, consume, consume. Buy humongous houses, designer clothes, etc. Many people EXPECT a lot more "stuff" than they did a few decades ago.

[BigDaddy44]

87. I support my family of 6 on one income

And my daughter would never be dumb enough to ask for a $650 prom dress.

[seabeyond]

90. ya.... lol. n/t

[Breeze54]

100. That figure wasn't the cost of a dress. That was an average of prom costs

in some places, for some people who can or choose to spend a lot on the prom.

The OP mischaracterized the article in my OP. The article was about donating prom dresses.

[Midlodemocrat]

91. My daughter's dress was $310. And, I feel like I got off cheap.

They are renting a limo for about 16 of them and frankly, given the fact that TPTB chose to have the prom downtown and quite a ways away from our home, I'm actually glad.

They'll eat dinner out at a restaurant that is offering specials for the night.

So, all told, it will probably come to about $500. I honestly don't mind. She's very excited about it and this is her only Senior Prom.

[LibertyLover]

93. Didn't go to my prom either

Our junior prom was canceled because of lack of interest and the senior prom only just made the required minimum of couples. This was the early 70s when you didn't go to the prom if you didn't have a date. And you didn't get a bunch of your friends together to go because if you tried to go in a same-gender couple or group, the school would not let you attend. So, I stayed home and read a good book. Later, talking with friends who had gone, I think I had the better end of the bargain.

[dawgman]

95. This is not why

The reason is that relative wages have been decreasing for 30+ years now.

[BluePatriot]

101. No kidding

Yikes. In 2001 I got a $99 discount dress, a few accessories around $40 (earrings, gold beaded flip-flop shoes, opera gloves), went and got a hair cut and style ($25ish) and did my own makeup and nails. Dad worked at a Lincoln dealership and called in a favor to have us towed around in a Town Car. We ate at a chain Italian place. I bought a few photos. That was it, really.

Ooo - now I have the urge to go to the thrift store for fun. Stupid full retail snob people. Oh well. They might make fun of me but now I have savings while they run around panicking over gas.

[Freddie Stubbs]

106. Isn't that what after-school jobs are for?

:shrug: