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The woman behind the camera at Abu Ghraib.****HE CALLED IT THE CREMATORIUM****

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:39 PM
Original message
The woman behind the camera at Abu Ghraib.****HE CALLED IT THE CREMATORIUM****
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 10:55 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/24/080324fa_fact_gourevitch



All that the soldiers of the 372nd Military Police Company, a Reserve unit out of Cresaptown, Maryland, knew about America’s biggest military prison in Iraq, when they arrived there in early October of 2003, was that it was on the front lines. Its official name was Forward Operating Base Abu Ghraib. Never mind that military doctrine and the Geneva Conventions forbid holding prisoners in a combat zone, and require that they be sped to the rear; you had to make the opposite sort of journey to get to Abu Ghraib. You had to travel along some of the deadliest roads in the country, constantly bombed and frequently ambushed, into the Sunni Triangle. The prison squatted on the desert, a wall of sheer concrete traced with barbed wire, picketed by watchtowers. “Like something from a Mad Max movie,” Sergeant Javal Davis, of the 372nd, said. “Just like that—like, medieval.” There were more than two and a half miles of wall with twenty-four towers, enclosing two hundred and eighty acres of prison ground. And inside, Davis said, “it’s nothing but rubble, blown-up buildings, dogs running all over the place, rabid dogs, burnt remains. The stench was unbearable: urine, feces, body rot.”

The prisoners—several thousand of them, clad in orange—were crowded behind concertina wire. “The encampment they were in when we saw it at first looked like one of those Hitler things, like a concentration camp, almost,” Davis said. “They’re in there, in their little jumpsuits, outside in the mud. Their rest rooms was running over. It was just disgusting. You didn’t want to touch anything. Whatever the worst thing that comes to your mind, that was it—the place you would never, ever, ever, ever send your worst enemy.”

The M.P.s of the 372nd were told to make themselves at home in an abandoned prison block, a compound ravaged by looters and invaded by the desert. The sand lay several inches deep in places, mixed with decomposing trash. Moving in meant digging out and sweeping up, and when you’d purged the debris—weird stuff, some of it; for instance, used syringes, which just made you wonder—what you had were bare prison cells. The military term of art for the place where soldiers sleep and bathe and eat on base is L.S.A., which means “life-support area,” and at other forward operating bases around Iraq an L.S.A. meant climate-controlled tents and a mess hall, electricity and hot water, a gym and an Internet café, phones and satellite television, PX shops and fast-food joints. A proper L.S.A. is an outpost of the motherland, and it affirms the sense of pride and tribe that is essential to morale and discipline. At Abu Ghraib, showers were wooden sheds with cold-water drums propped overhead. The unit had no field kitchen, so chow was combat rations—M.R.E.s, meals-ready-to-eat—breakfast, lunch, and dinner in a cardboard box; everything in a polymer packet.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. ...
The prisoners—several thousand of them, clad in orange—were crowded behind concertina wire. “The encampment they were in when we saw it at first looked like one of those Hitler things, like a concentration camp, almost,” Davis said. “They’re in there, in their little jumpsuits, outside in the mud. Their rest rooms was running over. It was just disgusting. You didn’t want to touch anything. Whatever the worst thing that comes to your mind, that was it—the place you would never, ever, ever, ever send your worst enemy.”
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
2.  “It had bones in it,”
Nobody had expected luxury at Saddam Hussein’s old prison, but morale was low to begin with—the M.P.s just wanted to know when they were going home—and there was something about living in cells at Abu Ghraib that never felt right. “We had some kind of incinerator at the end of our building,” Specialist Megan Ambuhl said. “It was this huge circular thing. We just didn’t know what was incinerated in there. It could have been people, for all we knew—bodies.” Sergeant Davis was not in doubt. “It had bones in it,” he said, and he called it the crematorium. “But hey, you’re at war,” he said. “Suck it up or drive on.”
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. oh shit....I want to see an inquiry on this... NOW!!!
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 11:58 PM by Breeze54
:wtf:

:cry:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. “It had bones in it?"
My God.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Mike Malloy talked about this tonight.
First I'd heard of it.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. Abu Ghraib is a crematorium, too.
Figures.

George W Bush, at Auschwitz, revealed himself to be a ''Holocaust Denier.''

When he toured Auschwitz, Dana's boss asked the tour guide if people challenged "the accuracy of what you present?"



Press Gaggle on Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II-Birkenau

Ari Fleischer, White House Press Secretary
Krakow, Poland
May 31, 2003

EXCERPT...

MR. FLEISCHER: Oh, that probably extended some 30, 40 feet behind glass, and you just see hair. Women's hair. The guide talked about in the next room that Auschwitz was also a site of plunder because as the Jews were rounded up and sent there, they brought their belongings with them so they had their suitcases. They didn't know they were going to their death, so they carried their life's possessions with them, which was then quickly plundered, the guide explained.

The President saw the Jewish prayer shawls that were hanging. And then another deeply moving part, he saw artificial limbs, actual artificial limbs, prosthesis, legs that were there and which she explained to the President, even these were plundered after people were killed, and then used back in Germany.

The President would say things such as "Powerful." I just wrote down as I listened to him -- "powerful." When he saw the suitcases, he said, "So sad." And then at one point when he went by another display where there were teeny little shoes, the President looked at it and said, "All the little baby shoes." He told the guide, "You've done a good job recording history."

The President talked about the current context of it, how many people come each year. He asked, where do they come from. He asked, "Do people challenge the accuracy of what you present?" And one cell --

Q: And what did the guide say?

MR. FLEISCHER: She explained where people come from. They come from all over, she said. A lot come from Poland, from the United States, from Israel, from Germany.

Q: Did she answer his question, do people challenge --

MR. FLEISCHER: I didn't get it. If she did, I don't remember, I didn't write it down.
Then he saw some cells where the prisoners were kept. Now, these are not -- at Birkenau he saw the bunk cells. But this were actual prison cells with doors that swing open and bars, very, very small rooms. And in one small room, the guide explained, there were 39 people in a small cell with a teeny, teeny little bit of air that came in from a window up top. And this cell was very small. And she said to him, on the doors you can see signs on how to scratch the door to survive. And you could see it -- on the door they would just scratch to get air into the room. They tried to claw their way through a very thick wooden door.

CONTINUED...

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2003/21131.htm



By his own words we see the Coward from Crawford to a "Holocaust Denier."

He certainly acts like a NAZI.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. How many human beings does he have to kill for it to be called a holocaust?
Edited on Sat Mar-22-08 12:41 AM by seemslikeadream
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. While I cannot find one good thing to say about GWB
I don't think your article indicates anything about Holocaust denial on his part.

The question is a normal one when you are in a situation that shows the reality of a historical moment - when you also know there are ppl who try to deny the Holocaust. In Billy Graham circles, Holocaust denial would be akin to a level of hell because of the beliefs about the special meaning of Jewish history (as in, the return of Jesus, Jews settle in Israel (this is their version) b/c of the Holocaust, which explains why god allowed this to happen, etc.

You have so much great information, so I'm not denying the arrogance of the BFEE power. In this case, however, I think your pov reveals an assumption about Bush rather than information the transcript provides.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Do you think he might have meant the Iraq Holocaust denial?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yes, I have seen reports of this.
There was torture and those that didn't survive were put in an incinerator. To the skeptics of the claim we have been going fascist, sound familiar?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Genocide by design?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1275903


Genocide by design?
Posted by seemslikeadream on Sun Jul-08-07 01:24 PM

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/56124 /

Is the United States Killing 10,000 Iraqis Every Month? Or Is It More?

By Michael Schwartz
<http://www.afterdowningstreet.org >.
Posted July 6, 2007

300 Iraqis killed by Americans each day sounds like an impossible figure, but a close look at the reported numbers of violent deaths and rate of armed patrols makes it all too likely.

A state-of-the-art research study published in October 12, 2006 issue of The Lancet (the most prestigious British medical journal) concluded that -- as of a year ago -- 600,000 Iraqis had died violently due to the war in Iraq. That is, the Iraqi death rate for the first 39 months of the war was just about 15,000 per month.

That wasn't the worst of it, because the death rate was increasing precipitously, and during the first half of 2006 the monthly rate was approximately 30,000 per month, a rate that no doubt has increased further during the ferocious fighting associated with the current American surge.

The U.S. and British governments quickly dismissed these results as "methodologically flawed," even though the researchers used standard procedures for measuring mortality in war and disaster zones. (They visited a random set of homes and asked the residents if anyone in their household had died in the last few years, recording the details, and inspecting death certificates in the vast majority of cases.) The two belligerent governments offered no concrete reasons for rejecting the study's findings, and they ignored the fact that they had sponsored identical studies (conducted by some of the same researchers) in other disaster areas, including Darfur and Kosovo. The reasons for this rejection were, however, clear enough: the results were simply too devastating for the culpable governments to acknowledge. (Secretly the British government later admitted that it was "a tried and tested way to measuring mortality in conflict zones"; but it has never publicly admitted its validity).

Reputable researchers have accepted the Lancet study's results as valid with virtually no dissent. Juan Cole, the most visible American Middle East scholar, summarized it in a particularly vivid comment: "the US misadventure in Iraq is responsible for setting off the killing of twice as many civilians as Saddam managed to polish off in 25 years."
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. first looked like one of those Hitler things,
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. good lord, they've gotten away with holocaust
Edited on Sat Mar-22-08 08:53 PM by bluesmail
THE HORROR OF IT ALL I don't know what to do. I am in shock and awe. Forgot the K&R.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. why do we keep calling them prisons?????
Prisons are where you send people who have been caught, tried
(with legal representation) and convicted (no matter how unfairly).

Concentration camps are where you keep people who have been caught, never tried, never convicted, forever.

Let's use the proper language, and insist the media use the proper language, for Abu Grahib and Gitmo and all those other places we need to find out about.
Damn it, I am tired of this Administration creating our reality with their Orwellian dictionary. We need to repeatedly insist on a language that fits OUR reality, in our blogs, in our comments and letters to news, in our conversation.
:grr:
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. K & R
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's easy to see how Hitler got away for so long
Who will stop Bush?
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R n/t
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Have you seen my new vid?
Edited on Sat Mar-22-08 09:11 PM by seemslikeadream
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. So where did we end up on the discussion about supporting the troops?
The torture, concentration camp and atrocities thing more and more appears to be more and more widespread -- like some had suspected but were quickly shouted down.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. Sorry, too late to recommend! Why are there not over 100 recs on this thread?!
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:46 AM by TheGoldenRule
Obviously DU has lost sight of what is really important!

And some around here object to the use of the word Nazi to describe * & Co?!!! :wtf:

:cry:
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New Dawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
22. Kick for truth.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for posting this info...kick! n/t
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