How long will people pay $3.00 plus a gallon for gas to

[rzemanfl]

commute from homes they are upside down on to get to and from work? What happens if and when they give up? Do they move to the city they work in and put pressure on inner city rents and schools? Do they rent where they are, give up the jobs they commute to and compete for service jobs in their local area? What happens then? The death of the middle class could be a really ugly thing.

[skepticscott]

1. They won't be paying $3.00+ a gallon for long

because gas is going to be $4.00 a gallon fairly soon.

[TalkingDog]

5. *rimshot* bah- dum-dum! You stole my line!

I was going to say: Not long, soon it will 4 dollars.

[BrklynGreenDog]

7. The 'cheap' stuff is $4.50 in NYC

[sabbat hunter]

47. where?

Highest I have seen in Astoria is 3.40 for regular.

[Clear Blue Sky]

19. My thought too.

What happens when gas is $4-5/gal like elsewhere in the world.

[demgurl]

51. But elsewhere in the world they have a good transit system.

When you are taolking about other countries they have a good metro set up so that you do not need a car if you do not want one. They do not have that set up in many cities in the US.

[ikojo]

65. Elsewhere in the world (i.e. most other industrialized

nations) people are taxed higher but are not responsible to provide as much out of their paychecks.

Here in the US we are expected to provide for the following out of our paychecks...these things are generally considered part of the commons in more civilized parts of the world.
provide for our retirement in risky schemes called 401(k)s and mutual funds
provide for our own education by taking out student loans
provide for some of the cost of our health insurance (for me the HMO alone is almost $40 every other week and that does not include the add ons such as dental and vision care---and the kicker is I work for an insurance company). I don't know how people can afford family coverage, even if some of the premium cost is supplied by the employer (for which they get a tax write off).

[leftofcool]

2. Until we get off our fat lazy asses and get bicycles?

Other countries have been paying out the nose for gas for over 10 years and they are coping just fine. Are we going to site around and bitch about it, or start dumping our fancy SUV's and other gas guzzlers, start car pooling, get bicycles, and get off our butts and walk some?

[taterguy]

15. Stop making sense

[rzemanfl]

16. My skinny lazy ass is sixty years old. My job is 11 miles away.

I can average around nine miles an hour on my bike without traffic on a paved trail. It is over ninety degrees here in the afternoon about five months out the the year. I drive an 11 year-old Geo Metro and I am keeping it as long as it runs, hoping that someone will make a car that gets significantly better mileage and isn't an arm and a leg to buy. It seems though that all the carmakers want to do is put more bells and whistles on their gas hogs.

Do other countries have the same degree of urban sprawl and lack of public transportation we do?

[JackintheGreen]

23. Depends on where you are

Japan doesn't suffer much sprawl, but I don't know about public transport. Most of Western Europe is much better about PT that us, and seem to be larger Canadian cities that I've been in. India suffers a huge amount of sprawl and terrible transportation (public and private) to boot.

But remember, Rush doesn't want to have to pay for me to ride the train into Philadelphia everyday. Or more likely he doesn't want minorities to have the option to ride the train out of the city to, say, suburban jobs.

[napi21]

43. I'm right there with ya. 64 yo and there are only 2 ways to get to work.

One is Interstate 85 toward Atlanta, and the other is Peachtree Industrial Blvd. Not only is it 14 miles each way, but you would have to be flat out INSANE to ride a bike on either hwy. Our car's a 1999, paid for, and only had 41,000 miles on it. I rarely drive anywhere except to work, and to the grocery store once a week which is only 1 1/2 miles away.

[drexel dave]

78. when nobody is driving anymore

the highways are going to be filled with bicycles, scooters, etc....

I can't wait for the end to come. People need real life once again, not an imaginary happy car drive everywhere culture that is about nothing but consumption.

[wolfgangmo]

75. Nope - other countries do not.

The closest would be Canada which is VERY spread out, but they have decent and and affordable public transportation. Oh yah - they have universal medical coverage that everyone can afford .

[bean fidhleir]

32. Ten years? Try 50.

When I lived in Germany 48 years ago, I was paying 25c a gallon because I worked for the government (the US one), while Germans were paying a then-equivalent amount (DM1.-) per liter. And that's not even accounting for the differences in income and taxation.

+1 on the cycling. Despite the wonderful public transportation, I was among the many who chose to commute by bike. It was nice to pedal sedately along on my 3-speed, usually in the rain, nodding and exchanging a smiling 'Moin moin' with the same people each morning.

[emmadoggy]

34. I'm all for everyone cutting back and conserving as much as possible....

however, comments like yours tend to rub me the wrong way a bit. Not everyone lives in urban areas - or even near a large town or small city. Not everyone lives in areas with moderate weather. Walking and bicycling are just not always practical, feasible, or safe.

I live in a rural area in Iowa. We live about 3 miles outside of town - population 4,300 - along a busy, main 2-lane highway - lots of semi's, farm equipment and regular traffic. Public transportation does not exist. The nearest grocery store is 3 miles away. I have a family of four which means trips to the grocery store usually encompass several bags of groceries at a time. My husband's job is 5 miles away. It's IOWA - walking or riding a bike doesn't really work when it's ten below and there's a foot of snow on the ground. Winter here amounts to a minimun of 5 months - sometimes more.

I fervently wish for people to stop driving all the huge SUV's and big pickups (I make exceptions for folks who actually NEED them in some compacity - such as farmers.) But for many of us, not driving is simply not an option. I try to condense my trips as much as possible. I have my husband stop on his way home from work to pick up small items when needed to avoid driving to town myself. When I do run errands I try to make sure I cover as many bases as possible to avoid another trip later in the day or the next day. I sometimes go for a handful of days without ever going to town. As much as it would be beneficial for my husband to have a 4-wheel drive vehicle for some of our bad weather conditions, he instead drives a Neon. Our family vehicle is a 10 year old Chevy minivan.

It's frustrating to me to see so many folks in my area still driving, driving, driving - wasteful little trips back and forth to town, here there and all over - and in their big pickups and SUV's which are VERY prevalent here. I don't know what it's going to take for people to wake up and start changing their habits and cutting back - and buying smarter vehicles.

But please don't assume that everyone can just stop driving and walk or bike. As many people who CAN do that, SHOULD. But not all of us CAN.

[taterguy]

79. Sounds like your husband could ride a bike six months out of the year

He just chooses not to which is his right but it's definitely possible.

[Greyhound]

41. There is no comparison.

The "other countries" you speak of are infinitesimal by comparison and they've been designing and building around mass transit for decades, some even longer. The overwhelming majority of American cities and Americans themselves are absolutely stuck with the crazy automobile system we have now for the next 10 - 20 years at minimum and that is only if we immediately begin a massive turn around right now.

How likely is it that the good Representatives and Senators from Michigan, that dominate every transportation committee in both houses, are going to suddenly allow this kind of plan to get out of their committees for debate? Fuck, we can't even get rid of the penny because of the legislators from Illinois.

[depakid]

48. Australia certainly isn't infinisimal

and last I saw, petrol was at about $1.50

Fortunately, in most places public transportation is both available and well used.

During the Howard years, infrastructure (actually tons of things) degraded, and more people started acting stupid like Americans- and driving more wasteful cars, yet it pales in comparison to what ones sees routinely in the states.

Bottom line is that most Americans bought into piss poor land use planning and unsustainable (non-negotiable) lifestyles over the past 65 years, and now they'll have to pay the piper.

While I don't wish suffering on anyone- natural and macroeconomic laws are what they are, and unfortunately Americans have been ignoring the probably consequences of their collective behaviors far too long for major problems to be ameliorated or avoided.

[ikojo]

67. I've owned only one car in my life and it was a 1981

AMC Spirit which died in January 1990.

I now own a scooter.

It's just not SUVs which consume a lot of oil resources..what about huge houses built for maybe three or four people? Who NEEDS 3500 square feet of living space?

[cliffordu]

71. That's what we did.

Shot my car in the face and put the wife and I on bicycles after 9/11.

I now get 60 MPPBS (Miles Per Peanut Butter Sandwich)

I spent 50 bucks on gasoline last year, (had to borrow a truck) gave NOTHING to the insurance companies and made zero car payments.

If you wanna do it bad enough there is almost always a way.

YMMV

:hi:

PS - losing 30 lbs was an unexpected bonus.

[DemReadingDU]

3. Good question, not anytime soon in SW Ohio

We ate at Olive Garden last night, for a birthday celebration. It was packed to overflowing, and dozens waiting outside to get in to eat.

Where do people get the money for gas to go out to eat, and how do they get the money to pay the food bill?

Maybe everything is charged?


:shrug:

[skepticscott]

20. That's exactly it

when you have several credit cards with balances that you carry over every month, and just pay the minimum or something else less than the full balance, it's very, very easy to just keep adding to it with a dinner here, a new TV there, a weekend to Las Vegas, etc. Since you're paying the same amount every month, no matter how much you have on the card, it doesn't seem like these sorts of expenses cost you anything, unless you sit down and figure out how much interest is being sucked out of you. Some people do it because they simply refuse to accept that they might have to give up anything/i] in the way of excess expenditures, and some because it's the only way they can afford necessities like food and gas. Either way, short of winning the lottery, it all has to come crashing down sooner or later.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

4. $3.00? lol! It is $3.62 here today in NY!

:banghead:

[Buzz Clik]

6. I look forward to the death of the SUV.

We're seeing it already, but $4 and $5 per gallon gasoline will accelerate that process.

[drexel dave]

8. I'm looking forward to the end of the happy go lucky automobile culture

although there are going to be some fat lazy asses who will moan until the dawn about the years ago predicted death of cheap oil.

They will be eaten first though.

[Buzz Clik]

12. Hm. With the death of the automobile culture will be a total change in our lives.

Things we take for granted that require significant energy will start disappearing.

[cornermouse]

28. And those old people who can't maintain their body temperature

and who require a warmer room temperature to live? They best just die and do it quickly?

[Buzz Clik]

29. You're chewing on the wrong person. I'm not the one delighting at this prospect.

[drexel dave]

61. prepare now, or be eaten later

if you are young and able bodied, get into shape NOW, because you won't have any choice later, which is coming sooner than we anticipate.

Suburbs will be literally be impossible economic propositions when gas is $5 a gallon.

[blues90]

33. I am looking forward to the end of it too .

Don't people even see how many cars there are out there ?

You could walk anywhere across the roofs of all the cars and never touch the ground and yet this seems invisable to people .

[drexel dave]

39. everyone is driving, but...

very few people are going anywhere.

Fuck the car culture and the nation of embarrassing babies it has brought with it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. Do you eat ?

:eyes:

[drexel dave]

77. no, i exist of a diet of air

nm

[here_is_to_hope]

10. Have you seen how many are up for sale?

I live in an area of Big Trucks and SUV's, everyday a few more pop up on craigslist. Everything is a drive from here and even the Soccer Mom's cant keep up with 90.00 fill ups.

[liberalpress]

11. Makes my Hybrid SUV...

...a better deal than ever!

[Buzz Clik]

13. Which one do you own?

[liberalpress]

84. Ford Escape...Sweet Ride 36 mpg

[skepticscott]

14. The same thing that is happening with houses

is or will probably soon be happening with gas-guzzling vehicles. Just as mortgage payments spiked for many people, gasoline bills for people with F250s, Avalanches and Expeditions will become unmanageable. People will try to dump their big vehicles for smaller ones, but they will have more and more trouble finding buyers. They'll either be stuck with their testosteronemobiles or have to sell them for much less than what they hoped, and maybe less than they still owe on them if they took out long leases or purchase contracts. I predict that within a few years, used car lots will be overflowing with these monstrosities.

[ikojo]

68. What about the death of the McMansion?

If we didn't have so much STUFF would we really need to live in such large houses?

[KharmaTrain]

9. The Ripples are Widespread...

Even at 3.25 plus a gallon, I still see thousands of cars crammed on the local tollway every morning...and I suspect most do it because they have to. Our area has little rapid transit and you have to pay the piper to keep a job. If anything, the current economic downslide is hurting local transit systems and some areas face service cutbacks as budgets need to be balanced. What recourse does a person have?

The things I'm watching are the other spending gets cut. I still saw a lot of people flocking the airport, but will that continue? Will people avoid a summer vacation or long road trips. Many communities that rely on tourism are already hurting...this could be felt all over this summer.

I'm also watching the price of Diesel that has already topped $4 a gallon...and how long truckers, especially independents, can continue to operate at these prices. We could see shortages and even higher prices due to this...and this will just speed along the cycle of less money, less jobs, more unemployed or under-employed and fewer dollars pumped into the economy to counteract the rising prices. Welcome to stagflation...a game the middle and lower classes never win.

Unfortunately the little guy is at the back of a long line here. The banks are the ones getting the hand-outs...corporate welfare to keep the deck of cards from totally collapsing. Next will come other industries like real estate, telecommuications and the auto companies with their hands out, next comes the defense industry and the endless war for profit...and so it goes. Once they're all satisfied, then MAYBE, you'll be thrown a bone...a tax bribe or "deduction".

Real relief during a repugnican regime???? Never has happened yet...and this regime makes Hoover look like an economic genius.

[PFunk]

17. Actually me and my friend made a bet on when gas will hit 6 bucks a gallon.

I said on or before the 4th of July weekend. He said afterwards. The way it's going now I might just win this bet.

Big Whoop.

[skepticscott]

24. Maybe not this year

I have a feeling that the oil companies (at the urging of their cohorts in the Republican party) will do everything in their power to keep gas prices down this summer. They know that a sustained spike in gas prices above $4.00 in the months leading up to the election will be blamed on the Repugs much more than the Democrats, and they'll go to considerable lengths (including making only 10 digit profits for 2008) to get McCain into the White House. If a Democrat gets elected in November, all bets are off though...strap in tight.

[ikojo]

72. I agree...I see gas prices actually declining a little as

people begin receiving the "economic stimulus" checks. Bush and the Democrats so much want people to spend that money on stuff from China rather than paying bills. Most people are slated to begin receiving their checks via direct deposit sometime in May, just in time for Memorial Day and summer vacation season. Just wait, there will be all kinds of airline specials and sales just at the time those checks start getting sent out. Already some in Missouri have proposed another sales tax holiday for when people receive their checks.

One thing neither party wants when people go to the polls in November is people feeling worrisome about the economy. They will do all within their power to make it look good. Look how easily people bought the reasons to attack Iraq, if Katie Couric says the economy is good then people will believe it and those who don't fall in line will be seen as "negative." Nothing worse in the US of A than being seen as "negative."

[ThomWV]

18. Just look at Europe, they've been paying those prices for years.

[El Pinko]

21. But they have not seen their pump prices triple in a short time.

The weak dollar and rapaciousness of US oil companies means that the rise in pump prices has been much more abrupt and severe than in most other countries.

Prices in Japan have gone fron 110 yen/liter in 2000 to 150/liter now. That is nowhere near as big a rise as from $1.30 to nearly $4 here. And most Asians/Europeans are lucky (smart) enough to not live 50+ miles from work, asccessible only by car.

[skepticscott]

22. Two big differences

They have much better public transportation in most places in Europe, as opposed to here, and they drive far smaller and more economical vehicles on average than we do, so they don't feel the pinch as much. I've been in Paris and Edinburgh fairly recently, and the vast majority of cars that you see in the inner city are what we would consider sub-compacts or smaller. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that 90% of their cars would be in the smallest 10-20% of our cars in the US. On top of that, many, many people use electric scooters and motorcycles to get to work in the city, if they don't use the subway or buses.

[caledesi]

36. And they don't just get gas....health insurance etc. NT

[JP Belgium]

40. ok, have a laugh...

...but not too long please.



this is EURO/LITER, not dollar/gallon

makes almost 8 dollar/gallon I guess...

[ThomWV]

59. Notice something there - diesel is cheaper than gasoline

Here diesel is much higher per unit.

[Lil Missy]

85. We end up paying as much when you consider the subsidies and tax breaks oil companies get here.

That corporate welfare does come out of our pockets in the end.

[kestrel91316]

25. I (and probably most of my fellow Californians) would give my

eyeteeth to only be paying $3.00 for gas. It's $3.51 today for regular at the cheapest place in the area. You can pay up to $4.80 for premium if you drive down the street just a couple of miles.

[INdemo]

26. They use numerous excuses as to why we are paying this outrageous

price for gas......But I believe that it is a result of political payback to the oil comapnies.Meaning ever since the oil companies and Cheney drafted the energy bill in 2004 we have seen the price of gas skyrocket..It has nothing to do with world supply but millionaires are able to speculate oil and force the price per barrel up or down and profit on both ends of scale. One week we have an adequate supply and then all of a sudden the next week those inventories are depleted etc,etc,Major oil companies are earning on average 100 million in a three month period with none of those profits being invested in renewable energy.Remember back in 2006 when the Repukes were trying to hang on to the Majority and oil companies were lowing the gas price to help them maintain their majority? The oil companies haven't paid the first dime in royalties for oil taken from government land,they are still receiving subsidies and we are paying the price for CEO's to receive those 150 million dollar salaries plus bonuses of 50 mill or more.So they are wasting words when they tell me we are paying the price because of an oil shortage when any oil company exec can use some phony excuse and more millionaires are added to the list of greedy speculators daily.

[marmar]

27. Local economies and public transportation will become essentials.

.... or this country will lie in ruins.

[stray cat]

30. Moving to the city I work in is even more expensive that commuting

don't forget those of us who can't afford to live anywhere near where we work.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. At some point people will give up on something to make it work.

Either they find a job closer to where they can afford to live, or they change their standard for what constitutes affordable housing. The latter includes living in smaller spaces at a higher cost, or sharing space with boarders to help defray costs. I doubt that will happen on a wide scale unless gas costs continue to escalate. For most people, $3.00-$4.00/gallon isn't causing enough hardship to force a change. If it's up to $10/gallon by this time next year I think we'd see a lot of people scramble to switch job or living arrangements.

[ikojo]

70. This is true. My workplace is located in an office park

in a wealthy suburb of St Louis. Rent for a one bedroom apartment in that area would eat one of my paychecks. I ride my scooter 20 miles each way to work.

On days I cannot ride my beloved scooter, I take the bus.

[LWolf]

35. I don't know how long "people" will do so.

I will do so as long as I can't find a job closer to home. I am not going to be riding a bicycle anytime soon, unless you can find one that will keep me warm in frigid winter conditions. For most of my working year, it's dark when I leave, dark when I get home, and there are no bike lanes, or street lights, on the rural roads I'm driving on. I'm already at work for 9-11 hours each day; adding 90 minutes on a bicycle each way just isn't going to happen.

I might consider taking a position in a school closer to my home; there's one about 8 miles away, and another about 9 miles away. That could happen if they had an opening at my grade level. If they offered me a reason to want to teach there.

I don't think you are really talking about people who live rurally, though. It sounds like you are focused on suburbia.

[gollygee]

37. I'd guess people will start buying more gas-efficient cars but keep living

out in the suburbs. At least that's what seems to happen elsewhere.

[roamer65]

38. At 38 mpg, I can handle $3 a gallon gas just fine.

Fuel efficiency is the answer. My next car will probably be a hybrid.

[sarcasmo]

55. Exactly, I love my little car and right now it's 33 bucks to fill it up, when bone dry.

[Greyhound]

42. Damn, this thread has pissed me off.

Between the arrogant and smarmy, "get off your lazy asses and ride a bike 40 miles to work" assholes and the, oh-so-sanctimonious "my 50 mpg, $40,000 commuter box makes me so smart" jerks, I want to go buy an old CJ-5 mini-tank, throw a 400CuI V-8 in it and start running them down.

I'm sure I could pick enough cash off their mutilated corpses to keep filling the gas tank up indefinitely.
:grr:

[hifalutin]

44. What I really, really, really want is a Hummer

but my conscience won't let me buy one.

[CRF450]

52. Thank you! Someone with some sense finally shows up.

In a month I'll be starting my other job which requires the use of my truck. It struggles to get anymore than 16mpg average. My car, averages around 22mpg and can easily get 30mpg, its an awsome car, and doesn't drive like shit like the current econo boxes do. I'm sorry but to me, cars like the Civics, Yaris, Carolla, Prius etc etc... are boring, underpowered, fwd crap boxes that I dont want to own. If you like them, and enjoy driving them, more power to you. Just dont force me into owning those things. I'm completely for better fuel milage, less conseumption and moving on to an EV, but it needs to be a "real car", rwd, and AFFORDABLE. Not a little tin can.

As to those of you wanting an end to the car culture, thats never going to happen. Besides, I enjoy driving, and I will continue to do so.

[taterguy]

80. I only carry credit and debit cards

Sorry.
You might be able to snag a few books with my library card though

[Thepricebreaker]

45. They will pay it as long as they need to drive.... so forever ..

[depakid]

46. Yep- it's going to be ugly

and some places- like the South, areas of the SouthWest and Southern California will fare far worse than others.

[CK_John]

49. Build, buy or invest in rickshaws and learn to weld. n/t

[B Calm]

50. What happened to CAR POOLING? Every place I go, I see one person

in a vehicle.

[cornermouse]

53. Work hours that are not compatible.

[B Calm]

57. Employers could contribute to the progess and help.

[cornermouse]

60. They could but employers tend to think of themselves first

and their employees last.

[skepticscott]

76. It's become harder and harder

The regular 8-5 workday and 40 hour work week, where everybody came to work at the same time and left at the same time, just isn't a reality for most people, to the extent that it ever was. People work longer and more varied hours now and want more flexible schedules. They have kids to drop off and pick up at daycare or school, and then ferry to sports, lessons and other activities, all of which can vary from day to day or from week to week. It's very, very difficult to coordinate 3 or 4 people's schedules into a regular car pool any more.

[Ilsa]

54. Acoupleof years ago, the news people said that in a survey

conducted by a university or some consumer group that people wouldn't change their driving habits until gas reached $3.25 a gallon. I fear they were pretty close to being on target. The reason for the most recent easing of per barrel prices is people changing behavior and carpooling, etc.

[NuttyFluffers]

56. they will go into tent cities, to be ignored and beaten into submission by authorities

it's almost like americans are unfamiliar with their history or something...

i'm country shopping, deciding where to escape to. people talk a good game about saving america, but we've been down this road before. we only lucked out with a "class betrayer" in FDR (and some may argue Lincoln, and the founding fathers, before him) to save our republic.

[opihimoimoi]

58. How Long?? Its only the start..soon over 5 maybe 7$$$

Its all our fault for installing Bush and Cheney...both oil dudes...

We wuz warning you but no one listened....

[demodonkey]

69. Nobody "installed" Bush and Cheney, except maybe Diebold, ES&S, and their ilk.

Start reading the election reform board because if we don't have fair and accurately counted elections, NOTHING else will matter because NOTHING will ever change.

[opihimoimoi]

82. The fact remains he is There..in the Oval....and you are right...Elections must be Fair/Square

:toast:

[jakefrep]

62. Quite a while...

...or at least as long as it's more cost effective to drive a paid-off, less fuel-efficient vehicle than to finance the purchase of a new, more economical car.

[ikojo]

64. Since Americans have been fleeing the cities

for over 50 years, I suspect they will go without other things and continue to pay whatever the price of gas rises to. People at work give me a hard time about riding my scooter and then in bad weather I take the bus, but hey, it cost me $6.20 to fill the scooter the other day.

What does it cost to fill the average sedan? $40?

I've seen $75.00 on the pump when I've ridden up to fill my beloved scooter.

People will do without vacations to Florida but they will not give up their private automobile or their homes in the suburbs.

I don't see that happening.

[demodonkey]

66. Yeah but what about the people who make THEIR living selling those vacations to FL?

How do THEY buy THEIR gas?

How do THEY eat?

[ikojo]

73. I've noticed more marketing being done by states

within an easy day's drive of St Louis. Maybe that's what travel agents will have to start doing...marketing Florida to those areas closer than say Illinois and Missouri.

[Ivan Sputnik]

74. Ubiquitous electric jitneys

and flex time .... too much to hope for?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

81. Actually from what I heard people are curbing their intake.

The gas companies are freaking out because gas usage should be going up 1.5% steadily, instead it decreased during the last few weeks thanks to their inflated gas prices and it freaked them out. Demand started to slip and the price of oil per barrel fell a bit. They just realized that they are screwn.
Duckie

[zonkers]

83. Its 3.75 for regular where I am.