Why do so many DU posters not like teachers?

[sorrybushisfromtexas]

I have heard every stereotype of bad teachers that I think a person could hear on GDP.

Almost all teachers are hard working, love their students, want the best work out of them, and continue to work in a field that is chronically underpaid, has more stress than most imagine, and is not a 7 hour a day 187 day a year job z(like I hear all the time.

[Maddy McCall]

1. There are some horrible teachers out there.

Those seem to stick in the memory. They do damage that often can't be undone to children. Everyone knows of an example.

I could post on this topic for hours.

There are good ones out there. There are also horrible ones who should never be allowed to supervise, teach, instill values into children.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. There are bad doctors too

People die when they do damage. Yet we don't seem to discuss them much on DU.

[ulysses]

22. not everyone can do what a doctor does.

Any idiot can teach.

;-)

[1monster]

25. Did you forget the "sarcasm" icon? As someone who is in different classrooms

all the time, I can tell you honestly that many brilliant people can't teach. Some doctors can teach, and some cannot.

Some people who might just be considered "idiots," in the original meaning of the word, can teach while others can't.

Teaching is an art form as well as a science. Not all people learn the same way. Some people are visual learners, some audio, some tactile, some social; others are global learners, and still other are detail learners.

When a teacher has a classroom of twenty-five to forty students, s/he can expect each of the above listed groups represented as well as several students with varying learning disabilities including ADD/ADHD, hearing impairment, visual or audio processing delays, fine and gross motor development delay, dyslexia, and more and more often, not speaking English fluently enough to be able to function in the classroom etc. And, of course, there are going to be one to three students with serious behavioral problems.

Somehow the teacher has to find a way to teach so that each student will understand and learn. S/He needs to find the time to give some individual attention to those students who need it the most, without neglecting the rest of the students.

And s/he needs to make it intriguing, enough to keep the students attention and interest.

If you truly feel that teaching is so easy, might I suggest that you get yourself immediately to any local school, or at the nearest Learn To Read center and volunteer your services.

[ulysses]

26. didn't forget it -

didn't need it for proud. We're both special ed teachers. :) :hi:

[1monster]

28. Okay. Gottcha.

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. How stupid of me to forget that

:)

[ulysses]

30. it's easy to forget things when you're sunning yourself on a beach.

;-)

Ok, I really do have to get out of sarcasm mode...

[Xenotime]

44. And evil bankers out there too..

Don't forget the fucking politicians

[annabanana]

2. GDP is not a good place to look for the general

opinions of people here at DU.

[Maddy McCall]

4. You can say that again.

You don't have to, though.

:D

I agree.

[Echo In Light]

9. My experiences were both good and bad . My chief criticism lies with underlying aims of our system..

Which are invariably tied to producing more 'valuable' cogs for the corporate machinery ... even when carried out with the best of intentions. There are very real, very negative aspects of the prevailing form of education that, even if outlined with evidence and analysis, those beholden to such systems would naturally trivialize and disavow as a self defense mechanism of their chosen profession.

[splat]

3. I think there are a lot of very young people here these days with teen angst

[LordJFT]

5. beats me, I admire and respect you guys for doing a job i could never do

[RazBerryBeret]

6. I LOVE teachers....

Grossly underpaid in my opinion...

I recently found out that a young substitute teacher here in Ohio can expect $8 an hour....this was in a fairly rural area, but still.
I'm a Freelance Graphic Designer, and we generally expect 5 times that an hour here--THAT's not right or Fair, they have a very important job.
I have 2 kids in Elementary School.

[Ms. Toad]

12. That's about right for sub pay

but it doesn't depend on age or experience. After teaching for 11 years, with a Master's degree, I moved to a different city (still in Ohio) and subbed for a bit. There is no experience or education add-on for subs. I got the same pay as teachers just out of college.

[RazBerryBeret]

15. I'm sorry...

I think that's a disgrace. Your job is much more important than mine--I'm not gonna take a pay cut (hehehe) so you should make SO much more!
Hopefully that will change. (soon)...

[Ms. Toad]

21. It has -

I'm no longer a teacher :( (and I now make considerably more than I ever could as a teacher).

If things work out, I may try to see if my local district will let me teach part time. They made a hire last year who is not working out so well. His subject area is one in which there is a relatively severe shortage. If they dump him, I may offer to teach two of the classes he was hired to teach (the two which require training that intimidates quite a few people). That would let me keep much of my income (handy, since I will have a college freshman next year), but also do what I love to do.

[RazBerryBeret]

23. so I have to ask....

what subject area is there a severe shortage for?

Good luck on your plan--I quit a full time position (which I hated) for a freelance opportunity, much happier -- but in charge of my own benefits for myself and my two boys.
the work/life balance is sometimes hard to navigate!

[Ms. Toad]

41. Math/physics

General science is more common (which qualifies you to teach physics), but many general science folks prefer not to tackle physics.
Mathematics is also more common (which qualifies you to teach calculus), but many math folks don't really feel qualified to do so.

The position is primarily teaching AP calculus and physics. Pretty much my dream combination.

[1monster]

27. Maybe in Ohio, but not in my school district. We did just get a raise last year

when the sub pool was so low that I was often covering for two or three teachers in one day.

But before that, sub pay was on a par with the $8.00 to $8.50 per hour.

However, there are educational requirements. One must have at least 30 hours of college to be on the lowest pay level. The next pay level is at 60 hours of college, and the final pay scale level is for those who hold B.A.s or B.S.s. Any education level above that gets the same pay as the B.A.s and B.S.s.

[Ms. Toad]

45. You have to have a college degree here.

With that, you can get a temporary certificate that has at least some renewal options.

From what I can find with a Google search, the rate is about $80/day for the suburban schools - the work day is 7-8 hrs, so it's gone up more than I thought it had (it was about $40/day the last time I subbed). You can earn a higher rate in the urban areas, and I believe permanent subs also get a bump.

[here_is_to_hope]

7. Maybe you need to get smacked with a ruler to

understand?

(kidding, stoned posting again...)

:hi:

For myself, Mrs. Stevenson, 1st grade...
I broke my thumb and could not write so she gave me some old National Geographic's to read...
Big words in them magazines, before I knew it, I was reading at a 10th grade level. Two years later, I skipped a grade based on my reading and comprehension skills.
It was good and bad, good because I was learning so much so fast. Bad because the other kids were way bigger than me and I often found myself in the trashcan...

Teachers rock, period.

[patrice]

8. I've noticed that for quite some time.

On a few to several lines of words about a classroom problem posted on an internet forum, you see all kinds of people recommending getting teachers fired or at least judging the entire situation very negatively and telling the story-teller to cause as much difficulty for the teacher as possible.

Reminds me why I got out of it.

[earth mom]

10. The majority of teachers ROCK! Except for the fundie ones.

:puke:

[HockeyMom]

11. I am a TA

My daughter, who is now a certified teacher in the South Bronx, went into teaching because of the teachers she had. She was a Special Ed student herself, and I work with Special Ed kids.

As she has said, if it weren't for the teachers she had growing up, she would not be where she is today.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

13. Many of my teachers are there before 7 and leave after 5.

They also spend several extra hours a week doing lesson plans, paperwork, grading, and making tests. There definitely are assholes, like there are everywhere, but almost all of them work way more than most people, often for less money.

[tkmorris]

14. There are certain professions, and teaching is one

There are certain professions, and teaching is one, in which the amount of trust which must be placed in them is so great that there is simply no room for a poor one. Policemen, teachers, doctors, and so forth. As such, whenever a bad one is found out, the outrage is greater than it would otherwise be.

A bad waiter can ruin your dinner, a bad teacher can ruin a child.

[LWolf]

39. That's true.

The same can be said for bad parents, of course. Having worked with many families over the course of my 25 years in public education, I can say that even when we know a child lives in a highly dysfunctional, harmful situation, the parents usually still love that child, and do what they think best, right or wrong.

Still the number of children who are abused or neglected at home is higher than you might think, if you didn't work in a public school.

Why are bad teachers worse during the one year they spend with a group of children than parents are for the entire childhood they are responsible for?

I'm not excusing poor teachers. Most poor teachers can be improved with support, just like most poor parents. I'd like to see that support there for both.

I just counted up, in my mind, the number of students in my class this year that struggle with problems at home that cause harm to them. Homelessness (I'm not blaming the parent for this.) Alcoholism and drug use. Spousal abuse. Emotional and verbal abuse. Neglect. Abandonment. Family feuding. Divorce tugs of war. Foster homes to protect them from abusive parents. Parents in jail. Fully 50% of my students have something like this going on. That I know of. And that's just one class; I have two others.

How about some support for all of the environments our children grow and learn in, and the people providing the care and education they are getting?

[Ms. Toad]

16. Very timely, as I head off for another teacher bashing

at the family gathering tomorrow. My BIL, who knows one teacher thinks all teachers are lazy, incompetent, and on the government dole - except me, of course. Although I haven't taught for a number of years, he watched how much time and effort I put into teaching - and for some reason believes that the one teacher he knows well enough to be familiar with her work habits must be the exception, rather than the rule. :crazy:

[seabeyond]

17. why do so many hate women, why do so many hate kids. i dont know. lol

but.... having kids in the system with both public and private school i have ot say, i love my kids teachers. they have been dedicated with my child's interest and just superb. i had a 2nd grade for oldest that was not sons style and hard for him to learn and a 7th grade math teacher that isn't a good teacher. other than that, both boys have had excellent. i think that is a pretty good record

[Mike03]

18. I haven't seen what you are describing

Teachers saved my life, and I know that when I discuss how horrible "No Child Left Behind" is or how it eviscerates the creativity of teaching, tons of people here at DU agree. Many posters are, like me, fans of Jonathan Kozol's painstaking defense of teachers and attacks on the poverty that destroy children and leave teachers without the resources, respect and money they need.

Teachers rock. But we need to give them what they need to remain inspired to do what they want to do--without interference.

[Trillo]

20. I believe that teachers have allowed themselves to be "associated"

with school administration. Often, in the experiences of a number of prior students, that association was catastrophic for the students in various ways.

Stereotyping can be either positive or negative, depending upon circumstances. It seems similar to "pattern matching".

[Ilsa]

24. I'm a big fan of teachers. Most work long hours

under difficult circumstances with little protection. They do alot for our kids. I especially appreciate those who have the calling for teaching special needs children.

[LWolf]

31. Democrats are not immune from the anti-teacher,

anti-public education propaganda that has been an effective tool for at least 30 years now.

Democrats are also not immune to the blame game that is now an entrenched part of the greater culture: "Nothing's ever my fault, it's always the fault of someone else."

NCLB was not passed, and continued, without democratic support.

You don't see democrats making support for public education a deal-breaking issue for candidates or elections, either. Yes, some candidates have noble sounding rhetoric about education, but few offer real support. Few are willing to address the true sources of dysfunction, rather than playing with the symptoms of that dysfunction for political gain.

[Greyhound]

32. I don't hate teachers at all, some of my best friends are teachers,

but considering that I'm old enough to have attended school when most people believe there was still a quality education to be had in America, and in over 20 years of going to those schools, I had only 8 competent instructors. I'm thinking that there is a huge backlog of animosity toward them as a group.

Perhaps it is time for the teachers to start weeding out the morons and municipal freeloaders from their ranks. That is, after we decorate the lampposts with the corpses of the administrators.

[Canuckistanian]

33. I'm appalled at the way teachers are regarded in America

Here in Canada (Ontario, specifically), teachers are generally universally respected and appreciated.

We all seem to know that teaching is a hard job and that teachers in general have to make many sacrifices and put in many extra hours as part of their regular duties.

And despite the fact that a University Degree and 2 years of Teacher's College are the minimum requirements for the job, the pay is among the lowest for any full-time professional.

And I even knew all this BEFORE I married a teacher.

But the way some RWers and others in America sneer when they mention teachers and their "diabolical unions" really offend me.

These are the same people who would defend public education and wouldn't say a word against the teachers that inspired them.

And yet, I keep seeing teachers being put down, their unions denigrated as "Big Labor" and a general attitude that they're overpaid lazy complainers who have an easy job.

Disgusting attitude to have for ANY teacher.

edited for sp. mistakes (Mr. Heighton, my 9th grade English teacher would have pointed these out)

[Zoigal]

36. Thank you, C........z

[Canuckistanian]

40. No problem n/t

[VotesForWomen]

34. they blame poor performance of students on teachers, when in fact the parents are much more

to blame.

[magellan]

35. I don't hate teachers at all, my father was one

He loved his job and the kids and they loved him back, voting him best teacher at his school for many years running.

What I dislike is that Repub tax cuts have eaten away at teachers' pay and hiring standards so much over the years that it's very difficult to find quality teachers in the public school system anymore. Many who would like to be teachers simply can't afford to be, so they go into something else. I'm not saying they aren't there, but I suspect there are far less who love their jobs and are good at it than there used to be.

This is all planned in an effort to privatize the nation's school system. And it's a shame because it's definitely having a bad effect on how well -- and even what -- our children are being taught.

[Toasterlad]

37. I Respect the Profession, But Have Encountered Very Few "Good" Teachers.

I wouldn't say I hate them, though. It's a damn tough job.

[burythehatchet]

38. too much homework?

:shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

42. I like teachers, I just hate idiots....

... It's very unfortunate for our country that the two overlap so much.

Quadruple teacher pay immediately, I say, and that problem will sort itself out.

Sorting out the problem(s) with families is somewhat more difficult.

[lonestarnot]

43. I think your generalization is toooooooooo large.

[pitohui]

46. "almost all" is not "all" -- there are a great many bad teachers out there

teachers are not chronically underpaid, it's one of the best paid professions and the constant lying about the pay won't win you any friends

be that as it may, i witnessed other students being abused, and i was myself very seriously abused -- teachers are not some special class that never hurt a kid or student, it isn't like every child abuser became a priest (especially not the female ones!)

if you've been victimized and society never, ever makes it right, then you are going to have some attitude esp. since we are also hit by the constant bullshit about "underpaid" teachers when their pay checks are a matter of public record and while i agree they don't earn as much as say michael jordan they certainly do have a good earn

i know a number of teachers and they certainly have no complaints about the pay or the time off -- it's the reason they chose the field instead of some similar field (like say, library science where to my knowledge the pay actually IS shitty because if all else fails they'll actually hire volunteers to work in the library, try hiring an unpaid person to teach kids and see how fast your school district gets sued!)