The right wing religion industry has destroyed my family and destroyed my brother's life as well

[sasquatch]

Yesterday my family had Easter dinner, I know it was Saturday but everybody had a lot to do on Sunday and they didn't want to interfere into anything we were doing on Sunday. Since I'm a non Church attending Christian the previous statement doesn't apply to me. My brother though is a low level sociopath and I've somewhat known that ever since we were kids. By low-level I mean a sociopath that is inspired by other higher level sociopaths and follows them to the ends of the earth. Unfortunatly for my brother's young family these sociopaths sometimes destroy their lives as well.

After dinner my brother showed up with my 14 month old nephew and spoke to us for a while. My brother attends a fundamentalist evangelical church in Poasttown, a section outside of Middletown, Ohio. The reason he wasn't at dinner was because they were having some type of "event" at his church and it involved my nephew. Anyway after he sat down he began to talk about his church and his pastor. He told us that his pastor was "the most honest man I know". About how their current church keeps expanding in members despite the fact it originally went from just 12 "active" members to now 200 "active" members. Also how they would have over 400 people there at their Easter ceremony. Also their church was having to expand due to increased Church "membership". His church is becoming like that of his MIL's, a mega-church.

I always had a deep suspicion about this church because many of it's "converts" were fundamentalist. So I asked my brother what are his ministers sermons about and he said they were always about "salvation" which is a common theme that fundamentalist "preach" to keep their masses "in line". He also said he preached a lot about "Hell" too, which is also a common tactic by these "ministers" because they hope to keep their parrishoners so terrified that they won't go outside of the church for anything or challenge his authority. This is also how the "ministers" keep the donations rolling in as well so the church keeps "expanding" its influence over the community at large.

My brither then went on speel about how people that don't believe in God are deeply remoureful because they don't know God so they're going to a place of eternal torment while the "believers" funerals are happy and joyfull. That statement really made me uneasy, but I countered it by describing a Black funeral where almost everyone there is deeply religious yet they're very upset. What he said next horrified me. My brother then said "well all the Black people I see are the ones that are dying from selling crack and I don't see that as 'Godly'." This stopped me upset me dramaticly because his best friend when he was growing up was a black child.

To top off this evening of absolute horror he also stated the following:
- Hurricane Katrina was "God's wrath" because of the sinfullness of the City of New Orleans. He wouldn't take into account any counter arguments about how bad Hurricanes were that year or that the city is in a Huricane zone or anything.
- Evolution is a dissproved theory.
- The King James Bible is the only source of the word of God. Which is so factually in correct I can't believe it and he wouldn't listen to any facts like about James I, the Jewish Torah or the oldest Christian Bibles were in Greek and Latin, not 17th century English.
- Also that we're in the "end of days".

My family was left horrified and in dissbelief over what had transpired. I had warned my mother for years about what my brother was up to and even after last night she still won't listen. I'm afraid I know where this will end it will end like it has ended everywhere this has began. It will end in Mount Carmel, or in Jonestown, or the World Trade Center, or anywhere else the members of a cult have been abused by their leaders and his surrogates have ended their lives for "the service of the one true God" have ended it.

BTW, could we recommend this so others can read it on the front page.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. My dear sasquatch...

I understand your horror at what has become of your brother, but believe me, people like him are vastly outnumbered by normal, caring folk.

There is no way on earth that these people will prevail...

There are just too many right-minded people around to allow this to happen.

I know it's looming very large in your mind right now because of what happened with your brother so recently...

Please take care...

:hug:

[sasquatch]

11. That's what scares me peggy

Only 10% of Germany were members of the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party. Yet they overtook not only the nation, but eventually they overtook most of Europe as well. Millions of people lost there lives because of these absolutist destroyers and good people didn't act before it was too late for millions of others.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. How did your brother become involved with this church?

Also, what made you believe that he was a low level sociopath?

I have always had a suspicion that right wingers of all kinds, at all levels, are merely sociopaths of different and varying degrees. I have one in my family.

[sasquatch]

7. He became involved with this church through his then girlfriend and now wife

I always knew he was a low level sociopath because he always follwed the lead of other greater or more powerfull sociopaths as a child. If got so bad as a child that my brother was banned from playing with a certain kid near where I grew up as a child.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. Oh ok. How did your parents handle his behavior? Did they

punish him? Did they do nothing? Were they proud of his misbehavior? Did they feel helpless?

[sasquatch]

16. They did nothing

My mother was the only one present during his outburst yesterday, but me and my father have both confided to each other our concerns with his church. My mother believes that although she disagrees with "interpretation", we should still honor his right to practice his beliefs.
:eyes:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. And what about when he was a young bully? Did she believe that

he had the right to bully others? I'm trying to figure out if there's a genetic or a cultural component in this. The member of my family who is this way claims that the poor and the helpless are that way because they brought it on themselves. He also is addicted to church and would never miss a Sunday. He sees war as almost a holy thing. He believes the flag should be treated as if it were some sort of god. He didn't start out in life being a bully, but now every word and opinion he utters is that of a bully. He loves authoritarians.

[sasquatch]

21. Well he was younger than me so I don't know of any bullying as a child

Just general hooliganing and whatnot

[Sarah Ibarruri]

24. But did the parents control that, or did they just ignore it?

When I was a teacher I noticed that a lot of bullies in class are either beaten up and hurt by their parents, or are ignored by the parents, or are encouraged to be bullies.

[sasquatch]

25. Yes and no

At first they would, but then they would give up. My father was always away "working" on something that only he could fix while my mother had to deal with my brother's bullshit. After a while she would just ignore and pretend it wasn't there.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. Oh ok. Thanks.

Would it have helped, I wonder, if your mom had put her foot down and stopped your brother completely from hanging out with bullies? Or was he born a bully? As for my family member, his mom spoiled him but he really didn't show any bully qualities till he joined a religious GOP group in college. They all share(d) the same authoritarian, hate-filled ideology.

[sasquatch]

30. I'm not exactly sure where it all began for him

I remember him being idolized as a child by the women in our community because he was "cute" and according to them cute children can do no wrong. I think that's where it began for him.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

32. The member of my family was considered gorgeous from childhood on as well

Everyone paid him attention for being so attractive!

[FloridaJudy]

34. I guess these people

Never heard "Judge not, lest ye be judged". I think some itinerant Rabbi said it: nobody of importance, from a working class family. He got involved with a really bad crowd - criminals, outcasts, loose women and the like. I think I heard recently that he came to a rather unhappy end himself, just as you would expect.

I'm sure they have no one like that in their congregation!

[SharonAnn]

10. Yes. Read "The Authoritarians" by Robert Altemeyer. John Dean used his books

as reference when he was writing "Conservatives Without conscience".

There is, indeed, an authoritarian attraction to fundamentalist religions.

The Authoritarians
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. Thank you! Excellent book it seems! nt

[zonmoy]

33. in that case the only non sociopaths in my immediate family are myself and my retarded sister.

not too sure about her either.

[The Straight Story]

3. kicking for you

:hug:

[sasquatch]

9. Thank you

:hi:

[mediaman007]

4. Personally, if it were my family, I would try to get a good deal on his

car, HDTV and other "Worldly" things. In the end time, he won't be needing those things.

I'm guessing he won't part with them. Perhaps he wants to hedge his bet.

[sasquatch]

12. Well I do like his pick up truck, but I'm not goping to cash in on my nephews expense though

[jazzjunkysue]

37. lol. Make him give you a date, when the end will come, and sign a contract

for his house. Just try it.

Very funny.

[physioex]

5. Sorry....

But there is nothing you can do for him, go on with your life. Only feel sorry for his children.

[magellan]

6. Insecure & unstable personalities are the targets of radical religious groups the world over

They know what they sell gives these individuals an addictive sense of "undeniable worth" and therefore "respect" within their community that they otherwise lack. I know, I went through this with my sister and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Thankfully she pulled out of it on her own by finding herself at odds with much of what she was being told. She's an exception, unfortunately. No amount of reasoning on my part helped.

You probably won't be able to convince your mother to listen to you about your brother. If I were you, I'd marginalize him in your life. This sucks for your nephew, but there's no law against religious brainwashing of the Christian variety. If there was, the GOP would be long dead and gone.

[earthboundmisfit]

17. Spot on

:applause:

[Wiley50]

Hey! Good to see you

Stillwater runs deep.

Drop me a line

[earthboundmisfit]

42. Will do :)

Hope you're feelin' hale & hearty, good sir :hi:

[jazzjunkysue]

38. Agreed. If you give the crazies your life, by worrying about him, then they

got a two-fer. Let him ride it out and keep loving him. Since you're not a fundie, that alone will eventually bring him back. This is guaranteed, because you know the cult doesn't love him. At some point, their price will get too high for him and he'll start to disidentify with them. This kind of negativity ha a shelf life and only becomes terminal for those without options.

Keep loving him and he'll eventually get it that "there's n place like home."

[Hugabear]

8. It should be child abuse to force children to attend these churches

Luckily, I was able to escape this sort of fundie church and think for myself. How many other people aren't so lucky?

[sasquatch]

14. How many people will be hurt because of that church as well?

That's the question we should be asking.

[Juche]

15. read this book

Your brothers sounds like a 'right wing authoritarian' based on your description of him as a low level sociopath who follows other sociopaths.

I highly recommend you read the book 'the authoritarians' which is free via PDF online and read up on right wing authoritarians and social dominators, maybe you can gain some info you can use to help your family. It is very interesting and talks about how RWA tend to get suckered by social dominators, aka sociopaths.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

EDIT: I see someone else recommended this book. This is great that word is getting out about the mindset of the religious right.

Another good book (I haven't read it though but the description sounds good) is 'american fascists'.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Fascists-Christian-Right-America/dp/0743284437

[kineneb]

18. religion can be an addiction

Your brother is in the grip of an addiction, and you do not need to enable him. If the rest of your family cannot see this, they will be in for a world of hurt. Emotional distance is needed, for your own safety and sanity.

[sasquatch]

22. Well I only speak to him when I have to at family gatherings

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. I am so sorry that this is where he has ended up *hugs*

[sasquatch]

26. Thank you GPV

:hug:

[ileus]

28. God is the Devil

[sasquatch]

31. I think that might be true in his case

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Festivito]

35. I diffused some of this today, with a DU inspired comment.

It was a Baptist fundamentalist Easter for me today.

Religion came up with the usual trepidation stated out loud.

I said Obama's preacher, Dr. Rev. Wright, says God condemns America for discriminating too much. Strong words indeed.

But, there are preachers like Jerry Fallwell in his day, Pat Robertson, the Focus on the Family one, who say God condemns America for discriminating too little.

They got it. There was no need to elaborate that is against homosexuals, abortionists, and New Orleans lasciviousness. Strong words as well.

[JoePhilly]

43. Great response!!

[earth mom]

36. I think there are MILLIONS of Sociopaths in this country and most of them are fundie rethugs.

Because there is NO way a normal compassionate person would look upon New Orleans and what happened to the people there and say they deserved it.

You see this disgusting attitude everyday with people like Limbaugh, O'Lielly and all the asshats on Faux. These people don't know what empathy or sympathy means because they simply don't have those emotions themselves.

It scares the hell out of me that the media and government have been taken over by these people. We are really in grave danger because 911 was either MIHOP or LIHOP. Those bastards will stop at nothing to get what they want or to achieve their goals. :scared:

[smoogatz]

39. People who get involved in weird, paternalistic religions

are usually deeply insecure and frightened. They have a hard time thinking for themselves and making sense of the world around them, so they look for someone with "answers" that make sense to them. Part of that need for order can be satisfied by the feeling that they're a member of a well-defined and rigidly hierarchical social structure. They also tend to embrace black-and-white, either-or thinking, and feel that their often very complex problems must have simple (or simplistic) answers, if only someone could unlock the "truth" for them. Anyone who doesn't embrace their simplistic, black-and-white reasoning isn't being "honest." If that sounds like your brother, there's probably no hope for him—if not this nutball church, then the next one or the next. The best advice I can give you is to try to be there as much as you can for his kids. The day may come when they're trying to sort things out for themselves, and maybe you can provide a bit of perspective and insight into the strange, narrow world your brother has constructed for them.

[sasquatch]

46. I call them Absolutist, but yeah I agree

[davidthegnome]

40. It's frightening

There are many people like your Brother, mis-guided, full of zeal and what they think to be righteous anger. I've met quite a number of them and at one time almost became one of them.

These preachers, they offer something that many people desperately want. A sense of purpose, of enlightenment, of something greater than themselves, greater than their meager existence upon this earth. They simplify the world into black and white, good and evil, the sinners and the righteous. Yet they ignore the teachings of the Christ they say they follow - if Christ is, or was real. As an agnostic I won't say either way.

I met such a preacher once. When I was younger and greatly in need of guidance, or friendship of any kind. He was a highly intelligent (if quite crazy) man who seemed to have an answer to every question. Twenty years older than me, he nonetheless became a great friend and a mentor. We worked together, played chess together, listened to old records, even smoked an occasional joint. Amidst it all he was speaking of Jesus, of God and angels and demons and of Satan. Amidst it all he was condemning those who he believed unclean. Homosexuals, black people, people who drank too much, people who did not follow the "righteous path".

He also told me that the King James bible was the holy word of God. For a time I swallowed it all - not because I would have truly believed, I think, but because I needed something, anything to believe in that would give my life meaning. I needed guidance, wisdom, I needed friendship and many other things I did not have.

Two things showed me the error of my ways. My Father, who held up a mirror (metaphorically speaking) and showed me what a hypocritical bigot I was becoming. Though I certainly didn't thank him for it at the time. And the preacher himself who I discovered was sleeping with - and often beating his own cousin.

I look back on those days with both disgust and regret. Disgust because of what I listened to and almost believed in, regret because he and I could have been so much greater than we were. Regret because I lost a friend and mentor and discovered that everything he taught me was shit.

After I discovered the truth of him, I abandoned him. I never sought him out or called him again, and soon after I became very sick with panic attacks. Over time I've recovered... but I still lack that guidance, that sense of a greater purpose, of a greater good. I still wish things had been different, or that perhaps I would find another mentor who could really teach me.

But in the end, the only knowledge I really have is the knowledge that I have no knowledge. There are more questions than answers, and I truly know nothing.

Pity your brother, but be there for him when his world collapses around him, when he discovers the truth of his church. It will destroy him as it did me, but I had no one to help me through that time. He will need help, and the support of those who love him to come through it.

[lonestarnot]

41. Cut him loose and never look back.

[sasquatch]

47. That looks like taht's the only viable option

[lonestarnot]

50. I am sorry.

:hug::grouphug:

[InsultComicDog]

44. kick

[pengillian101]

45. This reminds me of a similar church in the news lately.

After dinner my brother showed up with my 14 month old nephew and spoke to us for a while. My brother attends a fundamentalist evangelical church in Poasttown, a section outside of Middletown, Ohio. The reason he wasn't at dinner was because they were having some type of "event" at his church and it involved my nephew. Anyway after he sat down he began to talk about his church and his pastor. He told us that his pastor was "the most honest man I know". About how their current church keeps expanding in members despite the fact it originally went from just 12 "active" members to now 200 "active" members. Also how they would have over 400 people there at their Easter ceremony. Also their church was having to expand due to increased Church "membership". His church is becoming like that of his MIL's, a mega-church.

I always had a deep suspicion about this church because many of it's "converts" were fundamentalist. So I asked my brother what are his ministers sermons about and he said they were always about "salvation" which is a common theme that fundamentalist "preach" to keep their masses "in line". He also said he preached a lot about "Hell" too, which is also a common tactic by these "ministers" because they hope to keep their parrishoners so terrified that they won't go outside of the church for anything or challenge his authority. This is also how the "ministers" keep the donations rolling in as well so the church keeps "expanding" its influence over the community at large.

[City of Mills]

48. Society has evolved faster than our natural coping skills

We're born into a world we cannot truly comprehend.

It's my opinion that every single person in the world is suffering from some degree of mental illness. Including myself and everyone reading this. We all develop a rudimentary coping mechanism to deal with our particular situations. Some of us seek solace in religion, some in gambling, drug use, exercise, TV, thrill seeking, hobbies... etc.

But these things are all distraction from the truth we all try to run from. And that truth is, when you boil it down to it's essence, is we are alone in this world and have no real control over it. We allow ourselves to believe otherwise, but each of us runs from this.

We may be surrounded by other people, but we are alone, powerless, and then we die. We need to find ways to make life worth living. That is where distraction comes in, and the need to find meaning. But it becomes a paradox as we can never truly find answers though we spend our lives seeking them.

[Generic Brad]

49. It has not just happened to your family

My Catholic family repeated the exact same sentiments to me before with the exception of the bit about the King James version of the bible. But in it's place they were adamant that homosexuals were condemned to hell by God.

I am not so naive to think that my family's views are representative of either all Catholics or Christians. They are solely responsible for their own personal views. Frankly, their interpretations of the Church's teachings are the total antithesis of what I was taught during my twelve years of religion classes.

I don't think they are destined for Jonestown, but their extreme intolerance and willful ignorance became unbearable for me and I refused to continue taking it. I am still baffled as to why I was symbolically tarred, feathered, and driven out of town on a rail by them because I objected to their offensive statements. Apparently their desire to make racist, homophobic and judgmental comments without being called on their bullshit is preferable to having a son and a brother in their lives.

[OmahaBlueDog]

51. One mans cult is another mans megachurch

Whether one believes in Christianity or not...

One thing I find personally disturbing about the flight from "mainsream" denominations to the megachurches is that it's kind of like people deciding they don't want to go to doctors anymore and will, instead, go to aromatherapists. To be sure, there are some respected and well studied megachurch leaders. but as often as not, they have minimal scholarly training. What they lack in scholarship, they often overcome with "the gift of gab." That sounds like what happened here to your brother.

That said, your brother's views on God and punishment aren't that dofferent than many in established fundamentalist religons, and it is the oldest conflict in Christianity; do we worship the God of Love or the God of Wrath? Do we forgive our trespassers, or do we pray for them to be smitten in God's rightous wrath? And it is the religon of selective rule application; I've met many who get all fired up to tell how muc God hates gays, but hem & haw when heterosexual sex outside marriage (aka Fornication) comes up -- and most of this is rooted in the Old Testament, or the various letters Paul writes after Jesus' death; Jesus mostly talks about forgiveness and healing.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

52. My sadistic family member gets weekly "forgiveness" for his "indiscretions"

Which makes me not want to go to heaven if there will be people like him there.

[sasquatch]

53. I know, if Heaven is full of sociopathic destroyers I'll just look for apartments in Purgatory

[donheld]

54. I was raised around those people

I'm so glad got away. My mother is still part of a group like that.

[sasquatch]

55. I've had an urge lately to call a deprogrammer and see if they'd do it Pro Bono

[mwb970]

56. People like this cannot be reached.

I'd give up on him and put him out of your life as far as possible. Face it. You will never, ever get through to him. He will cling to these false beliefs even tighter if you challenge them.

Trust me. It's hopeless.