What kind of a message do we as a society send our children when we treat women like this?

[mzmolly]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russ-wellen/unsexiest-woman-holds-m_b_93160.html">HUFFPO

"Unsexiest" Woman Holds Mirror Up To Judges"

"Am I really the unsexiest woman in the world?"

That's the rhetorical question actress Sarah Jessica Parker posed to Grazia (which actually bills itself as Britain's "first glossy magazine"). She was responding to the title of "Unsexiest Woman Alive" bestowed upon her by a poll of the readers of another magazine, Maxim.

In questioning their choice, Ms. Parker fails to notice that she's acquiescing to the notion that there really is an unsexiest woman in the world. But she deserves credit for bravely admitting that it caused her significant pain, enhanced, in turn, by her husband's anger.

"Do I fit some ideals and standards of some men writing in a men's magazine?" she asked. "Maybe not." (Plaudits also for taking the trouble to Q & A herself, thus lightening the interviewer's work load.)

THIS is the "Unsexiest Women" in the world?



Last month "we" were talking about Jennifer Love Hewitt's http://jezebel.com/gossip/who-gives-a-fat.s-ass/breaking-news-jennifer-love-hewitt-is-a-human-being-330242.php">ass.

F-ing disgusting.

I am horrified at times that I have to raise my daughter in a society that condones this.

I am hoping some of the men who participate here will take an interest and weigh in on this subject?

/rant

I'll check back tomorrow, g'night.

[HEyHEY]

1. Come on, Pussycat, smile a little.

[mzmolly]

2. Yer lucky you're in another country bub!

:spank:

[HEyHEY]

3. thbhtbhtb

;-)

Truly though, the kind of meat heads that put magazines like that together usually wouldn't know a quality human if it took a dump on their head.

[mzmolly]

4. Tis true.

Have a nice evening HEyHEy. :hi:

[Sebass1271]

5. sorry about the change in subject, but how do you feel

or what is eveveryone's opinion on Lou Dobbs and Christ mathews as journalists? I ask b/c i have been watching Lou lateley and I really don't like his views on immigration...

Chris mathews, I know on this board he is called "tweety", but why?

[mzmolly]

6. Not to change the subject "back" but please start a thread with your questions.

Thanks. :hi:

[Sebass1271]

7. sorry..

I just did.

and yes, agree with you. what kind of society are we in that we waste so much time in "ripping" people apart...? what's the use of voting for this? To insult SJP?

:shrug: :hi:

[mzmolly]

8. Ripping women for not being perfect objects is troubling indeed.

No problem on the subject change.

Have a nice evening. I'm out "fer realz" this time. ;)

[momster]

121. Enormous Yellow Head

just like Tweety Bird in the old Warner Bros. cartoons. Apparently his staff started it.

[1]

9. i know...

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Maxim, I used to read that when I was 13 because it was the closest I could get to porn

[rhett o rick]

199. Sears catalog, bra section was as close as I could get. nm

[Mythsaje]

11. Personally I don't find her all that attractive

but "unsexiest woman in the world?"

Okay, whatever. Using what criteria? Wait a minute--I don't think I want to know.

Are they saying that they think her "sexiness" is overhyped? So what?

We've got a disastrous war, a faltering economy, outrageous fuel prices leading to skyrocketing inflation, and people are worried about who's the "unsexiest woman in the world?" We've got a mad war-monger running as the Republican candidate and a media that shows no interest in actually addressing the issues that matter.

People are being distracted by stupid crap like this. And other meaningless shit. Maxim is a cheap Playboy substitute for barely pubescent boys and those who haven't outgrown their prepubescent issues. It's about as culturally meaningful as the latest "What men really want in bed" article from Cosmo.

People are judged by their appearance all the time. Men, women, it doesn't matter. Everybody gets it. Fat gamer geeks are mocked with impugnity. Geeks and nerds don't attract women and even if they aren't tongue-tied and stammering, they still won't get anywhere. Every guy in a mullet is a stupid redneck. Guys with barbed wire tattoos are posers.

We have entirely too many people who've been cursed with the misconception that anyone should give a shit what they think about anything. And they seem to do a lot of writing for magazines like Maxim and its ilk.

So who's the unsexiest MAN in the world? I'm sure there are plenty of candidates.

Judging people on their appearance is almost universal. Everybody does it to some extent or another. It isn't right, but it is reality.

[Amonester]

12. Yes.

And in the meantime, chainy/bush/rumsfeld are sending boys 'n girls who volunteered to their propaganda to start world war 3, and 99% of the population waste their time judging on each other's appearance...

watta planet... tell me, is it really "worth it" to try to "wake the fools" up?? :cry:

[mzmolly]

34. Men are not held to the same standards.

Check out a football game and watch the commercials one Sunday from a female persepective. Hell watch ANY TV program and the commercials that follow from "our" perspective. The daily show, for example has commercials for local strip clubs.

There is NO comparison, sorry.

So who's the unsexiest MAN in the world?

Good question, perhaps Womens Day can take up the task of finding out? :eyes:

Loved your points about Maxim.

[kineneb]

64. "trophy women" syndrome

yeesh. I agree with you.

Incident: couple of guys w/beer guts and too-small swim trunks were getting into their noisy speed boat on the lake... Mom and I looked at each other and agreed that they probably thought they were some kind of babe magnets. Trust me, they were not (ugh). Bet if they wrote personals ads they would be looking for "slender model-types".
:puke:

[mzmolly]

73. Yep, and that would be the beginning of a beer commercial aired on Sunday's football game!

"couple of guys w/beer guts and too-small swim trunks were getting into their noisy speed boat on the lake... hot bimbos with big bozangas approach with a bouncing bounty of heaving cleavage (camera angle demonstrates bouncing with a close up). said beautiful women start running their fingers through the collective five remaining hairs on the sunburned heads of said fat guys in speedo's. boat sails off into the sunset whilst fat men get a suntan lotion massage and tip a beer to on another with a wink and a smile."

;)

[RadiationTherapy]

115. Men are not as threatened by their appearence; we just don't care as much.

Thus, it is not as effective marketing-wise.

[Iris]

117. becuase you don't have to

which I think is mzmolly's point.

[RadiationTherapy]

126. Wrong. Because I don't WANT to.

Most men have different insecurities that are preyed upon by Madison Avenue, but appearance is not typically one of them.


Look, my wife stopped shaving her armpits and legs when she was SIXTEEN. That takes courage. It wasn't the pressure magically disappearing; she put up with a lot of shit. Mostly from other women who HATED shaving but didn't have the courage to be "different".


Suck it up. No one has to be manipulated by Madison Ave. There is an image issue for many women in this culture because many women have image issues. The magazines come FROM this insecurity and do not cause the insecurity.

[Iris]

133. hee! hee! I lvoe your wife!

These days, it takes guts now not to shave your pubic hair!


I see your point, and, quite honestly, I'm not manipulated by Madison Avenue. However, I know too many intelligent women who are to think that this doesn't have an impact on them whether they realize it or not.

[RadiationTherapy]

127. As I mention below...

many women are particularly vulnerable to this sort of vile shite because many women are very sensitive about their appearances; men do not have the same pressures because it wouldn't work the same way.

Most men have different insecurities; appearance is lower on the list for them.

[mzmolly]

135. And that is the result of societal standards thrust upon us. Thus my point.

nt

[RadiationTherapy]

137. "societal standards"? Well, hell, then...TOO BAD.

If I lived my life by such ridiculous standards, I would be exhausted and angry ALL THE DAMNED TIME.

I will teach my daughter her own self worth; I am not waiting for 300 million people to change so she can have esteem.

[mzmolly]

139. Will you teach her before or after you put down your Maxim?

:eyes: It's good many people didn't have your self centered attitude during the civil rights movement.

Your straw-man about 300 million people will not shut me up, sorry - guess I never learned my "place".

[RadiationTherapy]

144. Don't read Maxim.

Low self-esteem does not, will not and HAS NOT EVER equalled slavery nor limited one's right to vote nor resulted in bathrooms for "pretties" and "uglies".

MY straw man. hilarious.

This is a serious issue. This is a serious issue for women.

[mzmolly]

148. Again, this is a serious issue for everyone.

If it's not YOUR issue, ignore the conversation.

My point about civil rights is that decent people didn't say "This is a serious issue. This is a serious issue for black people." That's not a straw man, it's a valid point in the context of your "it's not my problem" assertions.

[RadiationTherapy]

153. But it WAS a serious issue for black people.

And it took BLACK ACTIVISM to start the tidal shift of the civil rights movement. It required legislation, for christ's sake. Riots. Marches.

This issue is how women are portrayed in pictures everyone knows are faked. This issue is a bunch of nobodies claiming this person is pretty and this one is not.

WTF?

Not MY problem? It doesn't even have to BE a problem. I would never care about how I compared to Brad Pitt or George Clooney and I certainly wouldn't be repressed by their photoshopped images.

[mzmolly]

156. You don't get it.

I understand.

[RadiationTherapy]

160. Your judgement ends our conversation. As long as YOU understand

I could have posted the same thing and sat back, self-satisfied at my perceived understanding of something you "don't get", but I don't roll like that.

[Mythsaje]

180. I don't watch football games...

But I imagine you're right.

And as far as strip clubs go...they're demeaning to everyone, as far as I'm concerned. Women are used for their looks, men for their money. Disgusting.

[Freddie Stubbs]

38. She is the unsexiest woman who Hollywood is trying convince us is sexy

[mzmolly]

40. Sheesh, that's enlightened.

Freddie, you disappoint me today.

[Chovexani]

87. 90% of your post is right on, except this one statement

Geeks and nerds don't attract women and even if they aren't tongue-tied and stammering, they still won't get anywhere

That statement makes some fairly broad and incorrect assumptions, such as:

a) assuming "geeks", "nerds" and "women" are mutually exclusive categories (they're not, there are a metric fuckton of geek/nerd women out there, I'm one of them)

b) assuming women are shallow and don't value intelligence in a partner. Bullshit we don't. I don't know how many nerds you actually know, but even the most socially inept guys I know have no trouble getting laid once they stop trying to chase Maxim women. Female nerds have a far harder time, in my experience, because people treat us like we're invisible (like your post), and we're judged far more harshly for our appearance and interests than male nerds. Women are "supposed" to look like Maxim models and aren't "supposed" to be interested in things like math, science, and technology. Male nerds are harmless kooks to be made fun of, female nerds are dangerous because we challenge gender stereotypes.

That one statement pretty much proved the OP's point.

[seabeyond]

110. i have such a geek hubby

and he is just WONDERFUL. more man than any of these macho manly men. mean it from the heart. this man truly knows what it is to be a man.... and a good person. plus... being the geek, he does so much more. and funny. he makes me laugh all over the place. and values me, like no other.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

124. I love my (former) engineer guy!!

He can FIX THINGS. He solves real-world problems by breaking them down and writing a step-by-step plan to fix them. He's a math & physics major.

He's creative, he makes me laugh, he explains General Relativity and cube roots to me. He does digital audio recording, he writes music, and plays several instruments. He made a color-coded diagram of my breakers in my house. That showed me he cares.

He appreciates my specialized knowledge too. "Geeks" and "nerds" is just name-calling that diminishes their intelligence. And yes, they LOVE smart women they can talk to.

A frat boy wouldn't give me the time of day and I would not give him the time of day either, because he would be scared to death of a smart woman. I know. I've seen them zip off, leaving a sonic boom behind, when I mentioned that I was in graduate school. They are so insecure.

Our society is so shallow. It's not about looks, it's about the lights being on. It's about creativity, being interested in something besides football, and sense of humor.

And he brings me chocolate on my birthday!!

[Mythsaje]

183. I'm married to a geek...

She was running BBSs in the early eighties.

Don't make assumptions.

I know a lot of geeks and nerds, of both genders. I'm talking about the messages being sent by the media--women who aren't "maxim material" aren't sexy, and nerds and geeks aren't ever attractive to women. You run into these assumptions all the time.

And, yeah, I know a lot of geeks who don't do well with women. Maybe it's because they haven't stopped chasing those Maxim types. I don't know.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

184. they do need to learn social skills.

The double-E majors seem to be the most lacking in social skills. They need a basic course in manners and how to say "Hi" and make small talk.

[Raksha]

204. The unsexiest man in the world???

That's a no-brainer...John McCain!

[Mythsaje]

205. Not Dick Cheney? n/t

[Skittles]

13. most women don't base their self esteem on how many juvenile men want to fuck them

no INDEED

[Echo In Light]

28. You clearly don't work where I do

Not agreeing with it at all, but yes, the corporate culture does promote this mindset, and Americans consume HUGE doses of loaded mass media messages.

[mzmolly]

35. Unfortunatley, many young girls do have their self esteem impacted by the constant media

barrage/reminder of what our value "really" is. And, many young boys are taught that women have one primary purpose, to continually please men in every manner, at every moment.

My concern is not for the middle aged women, as you are correct, WE could give a flying frick about Maxim. ;)

[otherlander]

168. Well said.

[RadiationTherapy]

171. Thank you for being a role model for my daughter.

Someday this kind of shit will go away and it will be because of women like you. Wome who refuse to feel somehow defined or lacking based on a photospread or some fool-assed IMPOSSIBLE judgement like 'world's unsexiest woman'.

[napoleon_in_rags]

14. Hasn't anybody seen Sex in the City?

Where she writes the sex column? Calling Sarah Jessica Parker the un-sexiest woman alive is clearly a joke based on that show.

[Tinksrival]

17. I thought it had more to do with the show also

Sex in the city is very sexist against men. That vote seemed more a blow back against the character, Carrie and not so much the private person SJP.

[mzmolly]

36. I don't watch, but I don't think SJP and/or her husband

found this to be humorous.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

56. Really and do you think SJP or her husband

gave a damn about the male bashing humor on Sex in the City??? How concerned was she then..

[mzmolly]

59. I've never watched.

What kind of male bashing took place?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

63. Its not a guy friendly show

The show itself is about group of girls in their mid 20-30's struggling with life. There all working and all capable of taking care of themselves. Each show it seems like there is another man ruining their day. If his member isn't too small, its not working. If he isn't cheating on one of the girls then he's crowding her.

There are multiple objectifications of men, slights about their appearance or performance, .....


--

All of this is well and good (all is fair in the name of art and satire I suppose) but it takes a special kind of person to make a big deal out of being called unsexy after making career out of belittling men as morons, creeps, needy drunks, ...

[mzmolly]

70. This is the kind of world we women live in every day. Is it possible that the show

may be attempting to make this point in some way? Perhaps placing the proverbial shoe on the other foot is the only way to ultimately change? But, I've never watched as I've said so I can't comment specifically.

I have noted in the past that we are starting to place the same pressures on men and boys and I find that sad as well.

Thanks for sharing more about the show. Perhaps Maxim simply doesn't like the "growing" scrutiny of it's "member" ship?

Pun intended. ;)

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

74. Like I said

Its fair as satire and humor but when someone turns that judgmental finger back on the start she better not whine about being offended.

[mzmolly]

75. Maxim didn't take issue with the show.

And, I don't think their agenda is one of an intellectual nature, personally.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

80. Way to completely

ignore SJP's hypocrisy *again*

[mzmolly]

84. I'm not sure that she is a hypocrite.

She's an actress. I don't hold DeNiro responsible for the mindset of the characters he plays, do you?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

89. She made her money on sexist humor! and it was more than one film

As for DeNiro... If he all the sudden started to bash the NRA its completely fair to call him out for the money he has made perpetuating and glorifying a culture of violence! You dont think so?

Parker made her bones by exploiting sexual humor largely at the expense of one gender... Someone callers her ugly *once* and now she is deeply hurt...

[mzmolly]

91. No.

I think DeNiro should be allowed a life apart from his characters.

In retrospect, I also feel that Sex In The City has perhaps made you (and other men) aware of what women deal with on a MASS level and for that, I thank them.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

93. Right reverse sexism is good.....

And actors who chose to glorify violence for violence sake are doing nothing wrong...

[mzmolly]

96. What about actors who play violent characters in an attempt to provoke thought?

That's how I view this issue.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

100. Most of Dineros roles are not thought provoking..

If your talking Edward Norton then Ill give him a pass fight club was defiantly a smart move, I did say "actors who chose to glorify violence for violence sake" to clarify that..

But the 'from dusk till dawn' type of movies I have little patience for especially if after cashing a big fat check for such violence Cloony can go on a spiel about how bad gun violence is and how Alzheimer's is good for people who disagree on the second amendment..

[seabeyond]

72. hence, why i have never been interested in watching the show. no desire to watch men

bashed and insulted any more than i want to watch women being bashed.

enough of it all

not interested

[Iris]

118. I don't think it was about bashing men.

It was about relationships and how we can all be screwed up in the pursuit of "the one". Sure, some of the men did dumb stuff, but the main characters, who were women, did lots of dumb stuff, too.

[mondo joe]

192. Indeed. The men may have gotten off better than the women, in fact, because

they didn't have the same level of scrutiny as the main characters.

Probably the MOST sympathetic characters on the show were Aidan and Steve, and the bald guy who married Charlotte.

[Iris]

193. thank you very much!

I was beginning to wonder if I was even talking about the same show as the one all the posters here admittedly haven't but still feel free to judge!

[mondo joe]

194. The show was about relationships - and a few other things. It was pretty

frank about relationships, and was never very flattering to anyone, including the main characters who were very flawed.

[Iris]

195. I agree. Often shows about 30-somethings are about growing up.

I felt like SATC was about that as well as relationships. And also, there was the excellent use of the city itself as a character. A really great show, imo.

[mondo joe]

196. I agree. For all the silliness, it was very thoughtful and willing to be

unusually frank.

And I personally like a bunch of silliness, eye candy and fun along with my seriousness. :-)

[Iris]

197. oh, absolutely! Without the silliness, everyone would have been bitching about the whining as if it

were a reincarnation of "thirtysomething"!

[napoleon_in_rags]

81. Yeah, it was very sexist.

Specifically her character is just very unappealing. Every guy knows somebody like her in real life... looking for "mister right" when mister right is always a cartoon caricature of masculinity in some kind of uniform. "Businessman" or "doctor" or "cop". But when it comes to accepting the man beneath the uniform, things break down because this type of woman sees a man as her source of fulfillment, and therefore is ultimately really too self-centered to make it work. Its the worse kind of girlfriend you can have.

[seabeyond]

82. so ultimately it showed the very ugliest of what a woman is.....

anyway. as i said in another post, never saw the show

[mzmolly]

85. This mindset is PROMOTED for men in our culture.

Yet, when a women demonstrates the double standard we are taken aback, upset, find it repulsive.

Welcome!

[napoleon_in_rags]

167. That's right, its promoted all over.

That's why men dream of women who are beyond the mindset...Its all about the "for better or for worse" thing in marriage. Nobody wants to be with somebody who you have to live a facade with every day until you die, men and women want to be accepted for who they are.

[RadiationTherapy]

172. Holy shit that was an amazing post.

Sorry, I can't post now; I am rereading yours.

[mondo joe]

191. Sexist against men? Are you kidding?????

Sex In The City didn't make anyone out to be perfectly sympathetic.

The men were flawed, the women were flawed.

I think the men actually got off a little easier because the focus was on the stars, all women, so it showed more of their flaws.

[tammywammy]

174. I only watched that show a couple of times

On TBS or whatever, not on HBO. I just don't get the appeal of it. :shrug:

[usaftmo]

178. Haven't seen it; don't care to.

It doesn't interest me at all. Then again, neither does anything else the networks show. I guess that I'm spoiled after watching these shows while growing up: Happy Days, Welcome Back Kotter, M*A*S*H, the Jefferson's, and Three's Company.

The stuff that is shown now is plain horrible. The only thing on the major networks that interest me at all is the Amazing Race.

[lukasahero]

188. Umm, didn't that show end like 4 years ago?

Then again, maybe you're right. Probably took Maxim this long to come up with it's "witty response". :rofl:

[Codeine]

15. WTF?!

She is the definition of sexy. Idiots.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

57. No, she is not...

She is not an unattractive woman but not at all the 'definition of sexy'

[Thickasabrick]

152. "Sexy", like "Beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. Different strokes

and all that..

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

179. So then nobody can or cant call anybody else sexy...

eye of the beholder and all that...

[Thickasabrick]

202. Sure they can....or can't. It's all relative. What you think is sexy

may make someone else hurl. I think Parker is sexy but I've heard many people say that she's not.

[HuffleClaw]

16. HOW much of prime time TV is devoted to these 'popularity contests'?

big brother

American idol

dancing with the stars

survivor

America's next top model

the bachelor



etc...


and i'm supposed to feel sorry for some celebrity whining about a magazine article?

not bloody likely

[BuelahWitch]

19. Personally, I feel sorry for any *human being* held up to ridicule

when they don't deserve it. SJP may be a celebrity, but it still must be hurtful to have "unsexiest woman alive" plastered on a magazine and all over the media.

Part of the popularity of the television shows you mention is that people like to watch others get shamed and belittled in public. It's a sickening aspect of our society and it's only getting worse.

[Juche]

20. Its not about her

It is about us as a culture that we engage in this behavior. It is because we are a culture with so many neurotic popularity contests on one hand that does nothing about poverty or TB on the other. This isn't about SJP, this is about a culture that is so neurotic with such screwed up priorities that these things happen.

I don't know much about SJP, so I typed in 'sarah jessica parker charity' on google and saw she is a UNICEF ambassador. So when she isn't being judged ugliest woman on earth she is out raising money to prevent kids from dying of malnutrition and malaria. Nobody seems to notice or care how dangerously out of whack our priorities are.

It is a statement about us, not her that we are doing this.

[seabeyond]

30. man

i love males that think. you dont know how much

thanks

[mzmolly]

39. She's also a staunch liberal who grew up in poverty and worked her way

to fame. She's strikes me as pnenominal in many ways and I'm not a fan of her show. I've never watched it frankly - but I may have to tune in now. ;)

Great post! :toast:

[mzmolly]

37. This is not about a celebrity. It's about the larger societal impact of this

kind of pressure placed on women/girls and the damage it does to boys/men in the process. Maxim and their ilk are but a drop in the bucket. I used this as an example of a much greater problem.

[Juche]

18. Yeah I know

I'm a guy and I'm trying to think of a way to write this that doesn't sound like I'm artificially saying what is expected of me. But when you consider the explosion of eating disorders in college when college should be one of the most enjoyable periods in life, or women living with a chronic sense of being negatively judged over trivial issues their whole lives it is pretty fucked up that we as a species have spent the last 300 years in a state of constant (more or less) advancement socially, mentally, medically, scientifically and culturally but we are still doing these things. The average american reads at an 8th grade level and believes in creationism. We should be getting upset about that but we aren't, we are focusing on creating an oppressive caste system instead. I remember a few years ago on another forum asking women if getting a postgraduate degree or losing weight was a bigger accomplishment, and most said losing weight was. So women have fought for the last 100 years for sufferage, the right to an education and the right to vote, only to end up with a generation of self hating, neurotic body image issues instead. Paul Campos has written about this subject in the obesity myth, and there was another writer who I really enjoyed, but I can't remember her name right now.

Looks do matter in the real world, but the bar of attractiveness is far, far lower than most women realize. Most women hold themselves to an irrational & destructive level of attractiveness when in my experience one or two attractive qualities is really all that is needed to become attractive.

And again, I don't know how to express this w/o sounding artificial (I worry I, like every guy who speaks out about this will just be accused of saying what is expected in public then going back to making rude comments about women when no one is looking), but yeah it does bother me that 51% of the public are being taught that their waist size is more important than whether they are a good person, or whether they understand science, or whether they donate time and money to charity. It is very bothersome. I don't know what to do about it though. Esp. now that I have 2 nieces who are under 4 and I realize they will inherit this culture.

[mzmolly]

41. "I don't know what to do about it though."

You just did something about it.

Thank you! :toast:

[TheMadMonk]

21. Well since the beauty industry is largely driven by women...

...I suggest you clean up your own house first.

Men are largely Neanderthal. "Arrive naked. Bring beer." suffices for many. So blame us for objectification and porn, but not this crap.

It is women that torture themselves and each other with impossible ideals of beauty and sexiness.

[BoneDaddy]

24. Yeah isn't it funny how men get blamed for the entirity

while women continue to pile on the make-up, dress in uncomfortable shoes, and starve themselves to achieve a level of beauty that other women have provided for them. No, it is much easier to remain in a victim state, continue to participate in the behavior and never have to be accountable.

[mzmolly]

44. Sorry,

you must be a Maxim fan?

No where in my OP did I say "MEN are doing X to women".

[BoneDaddy]

186. I don't read Maxim

but it is a men's magazine and the implication is that men alone are guilty of presenting an image about women. I think it is much more apparant in many "women's" magazines, or shows like Sex in the City in putting forth an ideal that women should aspire to.

[mzmolly]

43. I do believe I said "society" in my OP?

I didn't suggest the problem was limited to your neanderthal brain. However, you don't have to remain a neanderthal and defend that mentality. It's not nature that makes you such, it's culture. There are plenty of cultures around the world that have not, do not engage in this mentality. Thus the "men are X" defense is flawed.

[Squatch]

22. They let Sarah Jessica Parker's face on TV and she looks like a foot."

-Peter Griffin

[mzmolly]

46. And he IS in a position to judge.

;)

[Hottest Housewife]

23. Parker has been the face of our credit card consumer culture.

So, yeah, Sarah Jessica Parker is ultimately ugly.

Sex in The City, more then any other TV Show, has been responsible for the banal, empty, consumer culture pushed onto our country.

Parker made $1,500 shoes necessary.

[mzmolly]

48. I've never watched the show.

Never bought a pair of $1500 shoes, and have had a credit card for the past 20 plus years.

[girl gone mad]

116. That's ridiculous.

Our culture was shallow and overconsumptive long before SITC started airing.

[dysfunctional press]

25. it's her mole...

whereas some facial moles are sexy- the one on sarah's chin is downright disgusting.

[mzmolly]

49. Another attempt at dismissive humor I see?

If it were about "moles" we should have had a mass uprising in the 1970's.

[dysfunctional press]

68. with sarah jessica parker, it's the mole. but she didn't come on the scene until the 80's.

and like i said- some are sexy...think cindy crawford or marilyn monroe.
but when i see sarah's mole, i think of something more akin to this:
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/10/25/parker_narrowweb__300x457,0.jpg
separated at birth?

[mzmolly]

76. I think you misssed the

point?

[dysfunctional press]

79. no, i didn't miss it.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

83. Then you are choosing to add to the problem?

I am glad SOME of the men here prove that liberals ARE more enlightened than the RW.

[dysfunctional press]

106. you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

and i mine.

[mzmolly]

108. Yes, you think SJP's mole is ugly and I have a problem with a society

placing this kind of superficial pressure on it's children.

[dysfunctional press]

136. i'm not placing it on my children- i just think it's a physically unattractive attribute for her.

i've got a lot of other problems with this society, but it's pretty much the only one we've got.

[Echo In Light]

26. It's time for the "Two Minute Hate!"

[femrap]

47. I love your Brainwashing sig....nt

[mzmolly]

50. That is awesome!

And disturbing. ;)

[rateyes]

27. She's not the "unsexiest" at all. This one is:

[Bucky]

109. I'd tap that.

It would be so wrong, and yet so much more delicious for its wrongness.

[aikoaiko]

29. Worry about what Maxim magazine (or its readers) has to say only elevates their position

I really surprised SJP or Huffpost even acknowledged it.

[mzmolly]

51. Unfortunately this mentality is not limited to Maxim.

Were that the case, I'd not concern myself.

[Mugu]

31. We were discussing this in the lounge just the other day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7581423&mesg_id=7581423

[mzmolly]

53. The conversation was funny.

But I feel the larger issue is anything but.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. You want me to weigh in? What am I supposed to say?

SJP looks nice? Sure.
Is the whole discussion moronic and trivial? Yes, but it also sells magazines and encourages people to rant about it via second or third-hand outrage. I've never read Maxim magazine, and to be honest, I can't summon the motivation to do so, even when it's presented to me as necessary to defend my gender.

Is this any less superficial?

Perhaps the concept of "let it sink" has a broader application. One can't tilt at all the windmills.

[seabeyond]

33. my F*in' goodness, it has been a lot of years

since i have read a cosmo. oh gee...us. that is horrible. lordy.

point taken.

i am so happy to be married to a man that takes care of all that i need want and desire and not living in that world anymore.

[mzmolly]

55. Why are a few men here overlooking my mention of "society" in the OP?

Where did I mention you're gender as responsible for anything as it relates to the topic? I said I was interested in "hearing" from men and that's what I meant.

We all need to address this mentality - period.

[truebrit71]

42. I don't find her attractive...but that's just me..un-sexiest is a bit harsh though...

..I would think that someone like Mann Coulter would fit that description better...

Brains and compassion are sexy too...and it ain't all about the looks....(but a nice pair of knockers never hurts though..:evilgrin: :hide:)

[femrap]

45. I can not bring myself to read

the comments. I took on a strategy years ago that treats men fairly....I treat them as they treat women. So when I hear a male dissect a women's physical features, I do the same to him.

I have to say, the response is absolute SHOCK. I think it is the only way males can LEARN. It's like Dylan sang, "How does it feel?"

Some people say I'm mean for doing this....I'M the MEAN ONE???? Look who started it.

SJP is a very cool woman. Maxim and its readers require rib removal.....tout suite!

[mzmolly]

58. "How does it feel?"

Exactly!

[devilgrrl]

52. Gee, I wish I was as "unattractive" as Sarah Jessica Parker

:eyes:

[devilgrrl]

54. There are way too many women that participate in this behavior as well...

come on ladies. We all went to Junior High School and had to put up with the mean cheerleader girls. In many instances, they were worse than the guys. It was they who ripped other girls about their clothes and hair, etc...

[mzmolly]

60. Indeed.

Though the Cheerleaders in our school were pretty well behaved, your point is well taken. ;)

[RadiationTherapy]

173. You let her off easy.

[kineneb]

65. I was one of those

wasn't so much the cheerleader-types, but just JHS/HS kids attitudes. If you didn't look and dress like everyone else, you were ugly. Now I accept my geeky-ness and embrace it. Heh.

[devilgrrl]

69. As Joan Rivers proves, that catty behavior doesn't stop at adolescence.

eom

[Tommy_Carcetti]

61. Definetly not unsexy

I wouldn't say she's the sexiest either, but hey, I'd date her.

I think she looks more attractive when her hair is down than when it's pulled back, but that's just my personal preference.

I think the "Sex in the City" producers did her no favors by making her character wear crazy and bizarre outfits while not focusing as much on her physical side, but I never cared for that show anyways.

Here's my vote for the un-sexiest woman ever:

[kineneb]

66. ouch. don't do that without a "graphic ugly" warning.

covering eyes and groaning...

[Sheets of Easter]

62. Th '00s pop culture has definitely seen a backlash against the

so-called "PC" 90s, which had it's fair share of shallowness as well.

Personally, it disgusts me to see shit like this.

[mzmolly]

77. Thanks for sharing.

Though we women have never been on the receiving end of much in the way of PC. I wish we were. ;)

[Lorien]

67. I'm not exactly sure why, but a couple of my make friends have always said

"ugh, I find her SO unattractive"! whenever Parker shows up anywhere. When I ask why they say "she's so skinny, and I don't like her face." Personally I think they they are reacting more to her somewhat manic character on "sex and the city" than to her actual appearance. After all, these same guys are more than happy to complement 70 year old Sophia Loren, slender Audrey Hepburn, or even Judi Densch!

[BreweryYardRat]

71. (Man here.) Frankly, I think that's ridiculous.

She's not drop-dead gorgeous, but she's still pretty.

[slackmaster]

78. The message is that almost nobody can live up to the ideals set for us by TV

It's all crap, and the more people who come to realize it the better.

[knight_of_the_star]

86. Did you miss the pun you made here?

"Last month "we" were talking about Jennifer Love Hewitt's ass.

I am hoping some of the men who participate here will take an interest and weigh in on this subject?"

[mzmolly]

88. Nope, I caught it.

;)

I also found it ironic that I'm on a diet, but I didn't share that in my OP.

[knight_of_the_star]

104. Just wanted to bee sure

[entanglement]

90. Women's obsession with their looks baffles me

Physical beauty is largely genetic (expensive and painful cosmetic procedures account for the rest of it), so whether a woman meets a society's (quite arbitrary) standards or doesn't isn't in her hands. So how does it help to worry about it? I'd say a cultural shift away from giving any importance to these 'standards' by the majority of women will solve this 'problem'.

There is also a class aspect to it - I'd bet that most working class women would rather have (or care about) a nice paying, secure job in a safe workplace rather than bigger mammaries. Modern feminists seem disproportionately interested in such 'pop' issues rather than serious issues (which are mostly class issues is disguise) like unequal pay, poverty, the economic challenges of single motherhood and so on.

I suppose it's much easier to write endless pages of self-pitying drivel about 'body image' from the security of a tenured position at some Ivy League than objectively tackling the crises facing working class people (women and men). Modern feminism has divorced itself from whatever little association it ever had with Marxism and descended into an intellectual abyss.

PS: I agree that the remarks about Parker were tasteless but remember it's Maxim we're talking about.

[mzmolly]

95. The cultural shift needs to happen among women AND men.

There is also a class aspect to it - I'd bet that most working class women would rather have (or care about) a nice paying, secure job in a safe workplace rather than bigger mammaries. Modern feminists seem disproportionately interested in such 'pop' issues rather than serious issues (which are mostly class issues is disguise) like unequal pay, poverty, the economic challenges of single motherhood and so on.

Modern feminists are interested in many issues that = oppression, we/they needn't choose among them.

I am reminded of one story in particular when these issues arise. It's the story of Karen Carpenter. When she read about how "chubby" she was - in a magazine article, she developed an eating disorder and eventually killed herself. Yes, she had issues beyond that article, but I don't wish to belittle this legitimate concern or be shamed for noting it as a valid one.

[RadiationTherapy]

128. I don't know many men or boys who have image issues.

Women need to admonish the 'beauty industry' by boycotting, burning, pillaging...whatever. But this is not a man's issue.


I am a man; I have a daughter. I know some personalities like to use that sgainst me.

[mzmolly]

134. And have you pondered why? Also you do have "image" issues if

you need to peruse Maxim magazine in order to be "titillated".

Further, as the FATHER of a DAUGHTER it IS your issue, whether or not you choose to recognize it.

[RadiationTherapy]

140. Yeah. It is because most men and boys do not concern themselves with their appearances so much.

What are you getting at? Most women and girls are very concerned about appearance. You think this is new? The egyptians had makeup for goodness sake. You think makeup came in to existence because some cave man wanted blue stripes over his partner's eyes?? Ridiculous.

Many women are....here it comes....hardwired to be more concerned about appearance. Break that down and you will have success.

I do not look at Maxim or any other magazine for any reasons, but when I want titillation, it is certainly visually based.

My issues are with my daughter who will know she is beautiful and will know how to use photoshop so she can understand the empty 'magic' of magazines.

Teach your daughter photoshop and do not wait for society to change.

[mzmolly]

141. Not all cultures breed this mentality. Egyptian men wore makeup too.

This issue is NOT a result of being born with a particular anatomy. THAT is my point. What's yours, beyond teaching photo shop?

[RadiationTherapy]

146. Yeah. SOME men wear makeup these days as well; doesn't help anything, does it?

Pick your own ancient culture; figure it out. Yin is magnetic - it attracts; yang is electric - it reaches out.

You act as if I think it is a non-issue which is wrong. I am saying that straight men LOVE women. WE LOVE THEM. We want them to feel good about themselves. The magazines and images, etc, that you are concerned about is not about feeding on men's insecurities. So eliminate the insecurity.

Just to spell it out; Most "airbrushing" these days are photoshops. I believe it relevant to show my daughter what this tool is capable of thus "pulling back the curtain" on the Wizard a bit.

What is your point? Does it bother you that you don't look like a magazine woman, or that magazine women don't look like you? Or are the magazine images putting unrealistic images in men's feeble minds and you can't get a date?

Most men are capable of having fantasies while maintaining reality; is that ok?

[mzmolly]

147. What bothers me is unenlightened people like you who assume

something about my looks based upon my wishing to discuss legitimate issues with how women are assigned value in our society.

Do you envy men who make more money than you? Is that why you need to fantasize about a photo-shopped trophy of a woman vs. perhaps enjoying true intimacy with your wife?

Your BS about yin/yang does not apply to the conversation, much like your most of your mumbo jumbo.

[RadiationTherapy]

150. Instead of lashing out at you; some answers.

I do, on occasion, "envy" people who have more money than I do. I am not an activist about it.

I don't really dig on magazine women. As I mentioned, I prefer "hippie" women: 2nd hand or homemade clothes, unshaven underarms, legs, etc, no makeup, no deodorant, all natural. My wife is all of these things and I never have enough time with her.

You do not see beauty and truth in the Tao nor its relevance to this conversation; so be it. I find it very relevant and understanding it has eased many of my frustrations.

That last question of your's really has made me angry, but I am rolling with it because you are ignorant of my life outside of what I have shared here.

I know nothing about your looks and I thought we were both "enlightened" enough to know that you are very likely beautiful despite comparisons to magazine women. I hoped you would understand that any person who doesn't date you because you don't meet some artificial standard is no loss at all.

[mzmolly]

155. I've been married - with the same partner for twenty years.

Dating is not an issue for me, nor have I suffered rejection due to my looks. Again, I feel you "assume"?

As for being an activist about your feelings. I don't think that there is much media scorn/scrutiny of men who are struggling financially? If there were, it would be highly unpopular - even here, among us women.

Thanks for not responding in anger, I respect that.

Peace

[RadiationTherapy]

158. I never assumed that; I asked if that were the case. It was rhetorical

and absurd. It was a point: are you REALLY affected by magazine pictures? That's all. Sorry it didn't come across.

There most certainly is such scorn and scrutiny of financially struggling men. There is scorn and scrutiny of our finances even if we have what we need, but it is a bit worn or "ugly" (cars, clothes, etc). I have never given a damn, but I have known men who have spun themselves silly trying to "keep up with the Joneses" and they were fools.

I thought, maybe, you would apologize for accusing me of reading Maxim instead of being intimate with my wife, but I don't care about that either.

[mzmolly]

161. My remark was in the context of "if"

you read Maxim. ;)

Also, I didn't say men were not scorned for not making enough money, however it's far less blatent and it's in no way popular. Nor would it be defended here under any circumstances.

[RadiationTherapy]

163. Ok. So no apology; I wouldn't make that remark near my wife, though...

"in the context of "if"" or not. You would get an earful.

I am not defending the pictures, I am defending my daughters ability to establish herself in the face of this shit.

[mzmolly]

164. Ok.

Cheers.

[RadiationTherapy]

165. "unenlightened"

rude. unapologetic. wrong-headed. insulting.

[futureliveshere]

92. Bah, ignore the idiots who know not the true worth of a woman (or a man)

Why do you care about such trash anyways?

[mzmolly]

97. I don't care about "such trash".

I care about my child and the world I'm raising her in.

[Uncle Joe]

94. I've always thought Jennifer Love Hewitt was stunningly beautiful

and her ass only makes me love her more. I also believe Hewitt has her head on straight regarding body image.

Regarding Sarah Jessica Parker, Maxim's world must be astonishingly small, I find her quite attractive, although I do find that pose at the beginning of every "Sex and The City" episode were her mouth is agape to the sky as sending major subliminal; (although not too) messages regarding oral sex. I know the show is called "Sex and The City" but I feel in this case a little more discretion would've trumped valor.

[mzmolly]

99. Nice post Uncle Joe.

No comment on the subliminal sky/mouth message. ;)

[Uncle Joe]

101. Peace to you, mzmolly.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

105. Backatcha Uncle Joe.

:pals:

[JerseygirlCT]

98. I think she's terrific

And how stupid to try to define "sexy" for anyone else!

[pitohui]

102. "we" don't treat women like this, if YOU do, knock it off

in the meantime all you can do is teach your children the truth -- that there are bigots in the world and those who pretend that there aren't and that we are all equal now and that there is no racism, sexism, etc. are lying to them for reasons of their own

she's not the unsexiest woman in the world, she is a perfectly ordinary looking slender white woman in her 40s, if anything above average in looks who by chance and no doubt hard work has happened to make a lot of money in the public eye -- to the maxim reader, a teen boy of around 15 who isn't yet allowed to buy a "real" pornographic rag, she looks like mom, and probably mom isn't such good masturbatory material, at least i hope to heck not

[mzmolly]

103. Nice post other than the assertion that "we" don't treat women like this.

WE do, on a societal level. WE allow it, WE condone it, WE reward it.
Have a nice day, I'm out for now. :hi:

[RadiationTherapy]

129. "We" meaning, largely, females, right?

Because most men look at Maxim for titillation; not life partners or what a "woman should look like".

What should men do?

[mzmolly]

132. What should men do?

For starters, men could work on appreciating the actual women in their lives, rather than ogle air brushed, siliconed versions of the real thing?

[RadiationTherapy]

142. Wow. I can do both of those things!

I must be one special man.

Or are you implying men, nay ALL PEOPLE, should only be aroused by one single person or what?

What are married people allowed to be aroused by??

[mzmolly]

149. I'll leave any implications to the academics who've looked at this issue.

http://www.planetpapers.com/Assets/5086.php

[RadiationTherapy]

154. So what is the implication?

That people are sheep? Media's portrayal of 'beauty' defines beauty for many people? Well, those people need to find a sense of self worth from within, because there is only so much we can do about our appearance.

I really hate coming off this way; I am not insensitive. I just refuse to have my daughter's esteem defined by Maxim, Cosmo, Elle, the church, or anything else.

[mzmolly]

157. Did you read the link?

I'm going to have to hope you ponder this more, but not care if you don't, understand?

[RadiationTherapy]

162. I did read it, but I will not be a sheep about it.

I do understand; even if you don't understand my understanding of your issue.

[mzmolly]

166. OUR issue.

That's where your lack of understanding comes in.

[Bucky]

107. Why was her husband angry?

Of course it's bogus to call anyone "unsexy" since we're all sexual beings. But still, it's obviously a feigned overreaction to her too-cute TV show. Why would she let this flummery get her down? And then if she does get a little hang-dog over being ridiculed, why on God's green earth would her idiot of a husband get mad at her? Should he not instead, say, act all supportive and reassuring her that it's a dumbed-down poll of her public persona, not of her as a person?

Are they really both that shallow? Apparently so. I'm so much more impressed when I think about how Halle Berry reacted to winning her Golden Razzie for Worst Actress in "Catwoman". She showed up at the fake awards ceremony and gleefully accepted her Razzie. She understood that fame and social standards in pop culture are jokes, not to be taken seriously.

People who judge others' sexiness are also not to be taken seriously. Of course we're all sensitive to criticism to some degree--and society is particularly harsh toward women, I'm releaved to say. But if the object of the faux scorn is your spouse, guys, for heavens' sake don't get angry at a woman for feeling hurt by ridicule!

This actress may be just as shallow, but I reserve my scorn for her dumbass husband.

[Prophet 451]

111. Yeah, but it's Maxim

Maxim is a magazine for 12-year olds whose parents won't let them use the web unattended and adults who don't have the guts to buy real porn. Emotionally stunted perpetual adolescents don't have much distinction between their idea of the perfect woman and the latest female Levis model.

[kwassa]

114. Great analysis, spot on.

as much as I try to be a perpetual adolescent, even Maxim is too stupid.

[RadiationTherapy]

112. I have found women tend to care more about their own and other women's

appearance FAR more than men do.

A 'men's magazine' is no valid indicator of what men want.

I am fairly sure that if we went out and observed, we would hear far more comments, both positive and negative, about women's appearance come from women than from men.

Men tend to be basic... 0s and 1s... I would "do" her; I would not "do" her. Women get into mean details about taste and hips and cellulite, etc.; projections, no doubt, of their own insecurities.

I realize the above is very anecdotal and partially hypothetical, but I do not think this begins or ends with men.

I am a married 33 y o man with a 6 year old daughter who is already learning photoshop so she will know most magazines are bullshit. Smoke, mirrors and photoshop.

[seabeyond]

113. and the men will merely say , .... i would "do" her, .....

sheeiiiit, being a man, raising a daughter i love, i would have a tough time seeing women that way

i guess that has to do with me being female and all

[RadiationTherapy]

122. Well, I mean in the context of judging appearance.

I didn't mean ALL men do that all the time. I meant, when a straight man does judge a woman's appearance, it is often confined to this sort of "0 or 1" mentality; it isn't whether her shoes match her belt and whether her blouse belongs in 1984 or how she can go to the beach with so much cellulite on her ass (Love-Hewitt).

I do not speak for all men.

I love my daughter and am proud of myself as a father.

I absolutely look at women every day and think "I would have sex with her" and "I would not have sex with her." and I am comfortable with that. I do not "see" women that way, I am just at ease with my sexual preferences; including the fact that I objectify at times.

[treestar]

138. Somehow it seems though that the most stylish women

get the most attention. Maybe it's just from the confidence they get from it?

I know men in general affect not to notice women's clothes, etc., and maybe they don't in detail, but it seems subconsciously they are affected. Whether or not you would "do" her may well be affected by that - among those you would "do" were any of them unstylish?

There was that cute move, "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," where the girl went from being a wallflower to being cute by getting a new hairstyle, losing weight, getting contacts, etc. Then a guy who she had met when she was a frump noticed her as if for the first time. I know it's only a movie but that seemed realistic.

[RadiationTherapy]

145. Well, style is like music...taste is taste...I don't think there is a such thing as

"a stylish woman" any more than there is "good music"...one needs a broader description.

Who a man would or would not "do" based on appearance varies from person to person, obviously, but my types tend to shop at 2nd hand stores, not wear makeup and not shave.

I LIVED "MBFGW". I was a 285 pound man with no wardrobe woth mentioning; no stories to tell; no skills to set me apart. I was depressed and alone and hated women, men and "the game". I changed my life. I moved out west, lost 80pounds, started to think about my clothes, travelled the country, Mexico and Central America and learned to play guitar. I became VERY VERY popular with women. I fell in love and got married.

I did not wait for society's standards and magazines to change. I changed.

[mondo joe]

198. The lead in Greek Wedding wasn't noticed because she was more stylish but

because she was more confident, and presented herself better. The guy wouldn't have known stylish from unstylish.

[Iris]

120. but the magazine in the OP is a young men's magazine

Anyway, Van Morrison, John Mellancamp, and I all agree with you that women care more about this stuff than men - "All the girls walk by dressed up for each other..."

[RadiationTherapy]

123. Great quote.

Maxim is to young men as Cosmo is to youngt women....nada.

[zorahopkins]

119. O.M.G.!!

OMG! OMG!

This is truly disgusting!

The way women are treated is just terrible!

[OzarkDem]

125. But its not racism

so its ok. Sexism is fine, great entertainment for the masses, even for Democrats. :sarcasm:

[NaturalHigh]

130. While I've never found SJP even remotely attractive...

she's certainly not the unsexiest (is that really a word?) woman in the world. A lot of guys think she's pretty hot.

I guess I wasn't around for any of the Jennifer Love Hewitt ass discussions, so I can't comment about that.

[Romulox]

131. A very similar message to one SJP sent in "Sex in the City"

You live by this, don't complain if you get a boo-boo! :mad:

[MrSlayer]

143. She's a butterface but hardly the least sexy woman in the world.

In the world? I mean come on, I can probably name at least 20 celebrities less sexy than she. And then there are the common people. Being hurt by this is ridiculous.

[Fox Mulder]

151. She's not the unsexiest woman in the world.

I've seen worse.

She's definitely not attractive, IMO.

[KamaAina]

159. Apparently Maxim's only reader is Peter Griffin

"They let Sarah Jessica Pahker on TV, and she looks like a foot!"



Well, Carrie does have that Manolo thing... :eyes:

[mondo joe]

169. Random thoughts from a gay dad of two daughters:

I tried to respond 3 times but couldn't pull it together into on coherent statement. So here are some thoughts:

1. Maxim is juvenile and should always be construed as such
2. Fantasy isn't the same as reality - the people we find attractive in reality might never match up in fantasy
3. I like SJP, but I think she's the kind of woman that gay men and other women are rooting for, rather than the *average* straight guy
4. My 12 year old daughter think SJP looks like a horse - I keep telling her she ought to expand her idea of what's pretty
5. I'm struck that this is on heels of the Jamie Lee Curtis thread in which she is put down for perpetuating "objectification" of women - there's no win for the women or the men when it comes to issues of beauty and attraction
6. Hetero women and men.... I don't know how you do it. I'm glad I'm gay. :-)

[Medusa]

170. The media

believes that if you're over 30 and are larger than a size 2, you're dead.

[rhett o rick]

175. I feel no sympathy for Ms. Parker. She plays the game. She portrays herself as sexy

and strives to meet some standard that apparently she recognizes. I think it is unfortunate that the game exists and women are treated that way. But those that have plastic surgery and wear extensive makeup and have their likenesses airbrushed to meet a standard, don't have any ground to complain when they are judged against that standard. I feel much more sympathy for the other Parker, Camilla Parker Bowles for the terribly unkind things said about her looks. She isn't in the "looks" game.

[mondo joe]

177. Poor Camilla. After all, she only contributed to setting up a very young woman in a sham

marriage in order to perpetuate her own relationship with someone to much of a coward to simply abdicate the throne to be with the woman he loved.

How can Sarah Jessica Parker, who dared to suggest someone outside the standard mold could be sexy, stand up to that?

[rhett o rick]

182. I wasn't comparing the personalities of the two. Ms. Parker uses plastic surgery, makeup and

airbrushing attempting to fit the "standard mold". I would applaud her if she didn't.

[mondo joe]

187. If Sarah Jessica Parker had plastic surgery, she should have paid more. I don't

mean that to be cruel -- she's NOT conventionally pretty, so I don't see the benefit of cosmetic surgery.

And many women use cosmetics. It's not a crime.

[rhett o rick]

200. I am terrible at making a point. Bare with me one more time. I don't care if SJP has plastic surgery

which I am pretty sure she has. I don't care that she uses extensive* make-up to look beautiful in magazines and TV. Personally I don't like the cookie cutter images that Hollywood is turning out. But what I am trying to say is that those that choose to seek the perfect look shouldn't cry to me when they fail. There are plenty of people that have serious problems.

*I don't think make-up is a crime. I am talking about the great measures, lots and lots of make-up to meet some standard.

Personally, I prefer actresses with character in their features.

[mondo joe]

201. Sorry if I misunderstood - or am still misunderstanding.

I guess the thing I'm not getting is that I think if any current female actor has a face with character, SJP must be one of them. Sure, she uses cosmetics - but I'm not sure that's always about conforming to a standard.

Anyway - no need to respond if this seems like haggling. I think I understand where you're coming from.

[smoochy]

176. It's disgusting to say the least

No wonder so many girls and women have eating disorders and body image problems.

[Rex]

181. Maxim, feh, a watered down version of Playboy.

Just another Hustler/Playboy wannabee magazine. A shit stain on a Rolling Stone spine.

[tomreedtoon]

185. Question, mzmolly: Why is she asking journalists to judge her?

This is the real sad part of the business for me. To begin with, I don't know who the hell Sarah Jessica Parker is. I know she isn't an actress. I suspect she's related to Britain's royal family. I know she's in tabloids all the time. As far as I can tell, she is of the class of women whose only value lies in being rich, trendy and famous.

Derived from that: she isn't representative of women at all, any more than Lucy Ricardo or Roseanne or Callisto on Xena: Warrior Princess or any other fictional media character. She isn't even a role model for young girls, unless those girls lead very vapid lives.

Now, given that this woman Sarah Whatever depends on looking good for the media, it is not reasonable for her to ask the media if she is sexy or not. A public celebrity is supposed to KNOW she's sexy, with the certainty that we people who possess brain one know that gravity exists and works. The moment she starts begging the paparazzi to confirm that she's sexy, she has admitted doubt in herself. That means she's begging for a fall, for the media to turn on her like hyena savaging a wounded lioness.

Does this sound like a reasonable analysis of the situation, mzmolly?

[Mad_Dem_X]

189. I don't think she's attractive at all, but

I agree the whole "Unsexiest" thing from a magazine like Maxim is a bit much.

[dorkulon]

190. It's human nature to compare and discuss people's looks.

In my experience, women do it more than men and are usually much harsher judges.

I can think of worse crimes in this world than calling a rich celebrity ugly.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

203. I'm sorry, but her face looks like a foot.

I really don't care for her. She doesn't seem like she has a good personality either if that helps.
Duckie