Quiet Hybrid Cars - the unintended consequence

[Stinky The Clown]

Md. House OKs measure to study quiet cars

The Associated Press
4:01 PM EDT, March 24, 2008

The House of Delegates has approved a bill to study whether quiet hybrid vehicles should be louder so that they don't pose a threat to blind pedestrians.

The idea came to the General Assembly because of complaints that blind people can't hear the vehicles when they try to cross the street.

Minimum noise levels are not addressed under current law.

A similar proposal is pending in the Senate. The bills would set up a task force to investigate whether Maryland officials should require noisier cars.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-hybrid0324,0,5885461.story

[DangerDave921]

1. It's always something isn't it?

No one can win.

[selador]

3. basic unintended consequences

heck, several times in my life when i (somewhat cluelessly) might have noticed a noise from a car before i saw it.

most of us have had near misses with autos as pedestrians.

certainly, an addressable problem.

[DangerDave921]

6. Yup

Unintended consequences are a bitch. I've read that lighter cars, desgined for better gas mileage, result in more road deaths because the cars don't have as much mass to withstand a collision. So we get better mileage but a higher risk of death. Thanks!

And there's the constant debate that raising the minimum wage causes young people to lose jobs because employers hire fewer people.

Unintended Consequences is really a subject all its own.

[madokie]

7. maybe its time to put the little flippers on the spokes like we used to do on our bicycles

[selador]

10. and mickey mouse

bells like peewee herman's bicycle!

style AND function

[timtom]

24. I don't normally do LOL, but...

LOL!!

[Stinky The Clown]

40. That's seriously not far from what's being considered

Some artificial way to make noise. the debate is how loud to make them.

[MikeNearMcChord]

16. Seems you have never been around blind people

Sound means a lot to these people, if all of you got a problem with that try experimenting going around without the use of sight. And maybe might learn something.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Why on earth did you phrase your post that way?

It sounds like you're accusing me of stupidity, cluelessness or insensitivity.

In case you were too dumb to notice, I posted, unedited and uncommented upon, a news story and a link.

Look before you type.

[lonestarnot]

42. Whatsamatta fo you MikeNearMcChord?

[CJCRANE]

2. I'd like one with a loud-speaker

that emits a Ferrari engine noise.

[Lint Head]

4. Wow. Just think of all the redneck Nascar fans that will think they

have gone deaf. :dem:

[Scout]

35. were you born an asshole? or do you work at it? n/t

[Donnachaidh]

5. They should just wait till the kids with the boombox backseats get them

Then they will be trying to figure out how to quiet them down. :silly:

[Fleshdancer]

8. is there an epidemic of hybrid drivers running over blind pedestrians lately?

Drivers are responsible for not running people over in crosswalks. If someone is crossing the road when they shouldn't be, then I don't think the noise of the car driving toward them is going to be very helpful for their safety if the car is driving faster than 30 mph.

[Catchawave]

11. My first thought too....

driver responsibility. Is it the car's too quiet, or the driver's on the cell phone?

[trof]

9. That's been a bit of a problem for me.

We got a Prius last November.
Our neighborhood is a 'no outlet' place so we don't get very much traffic. It's a good place for walking and cycling.

I was on the way to a friend's house a few blocks down the street and came up on a couple on bikes. Normally they would hear an approaching car and move to one side of the street so it could pass.

I got fairly close to them, but they stayed in the center of the street. I didn't want to blow the horn and scare the bejesus out of them, so I just settled in for a slow trip. Eventually one glanced over his shoulder and saw me and they moved over.

It can also be a problem in big parking lots. People walking in to the store can't hear you behind them.

[B Calm]

12. I would worry more about the driver on a cell phone.

[trof]

36. That too, but with the Prius I worry about...

people watching all the whiz bang stuff on the screen.
Our rule is that the passenger gets to play with that stuff, not the driver.

[Catchawave]

13. Would this help?

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. Yep. I have often wondered about that issue with hybrid and electric cars.

[Clear Blue Sky]

14. Another unintended consequence

If in a bad accident, the rescue workers have serious problems due to the batteries and the high voltage exposure risk.

Ditto electric cars.

I'd like to see more diesel vehicles like in Europe, and cheaper diesel fuel prices.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. I hadn't thought of that before.

[Xithras]

43. Rescue workers are getting trained on them.

Buddy of mine is a local firefighter and had to go to an electric vehicle rescue course last year. They taught him the do's and dont's of carving up a Prius.

Unless they cut directly through an electrical cable, the danger is minimal. To get electrocuted by a battery operated vehicle, you have to complete a circuit within the car, which is difficult to do unless you're playing with suspension and drivetrain components. If doing so is neccesary (some really mangled cars), they just have to cut the power cables individually without shorting the wires. Not as difficult as it sounds.

The bigger danger, he told me, comes from the risk of chemical burns from ruptured batteries. Chemical burns from ruptured batteries have always been a danger when working around wrecked cars, but there have already been a few people killed in electric cars (mostly homebrews) because they were doused with battery acid in a wreck or were overcome by acid fumes before they could be extracted. It's not a pretty way to go.

[Clear Blue Sky]

15. On start up, they are like an electric golf cart. Virtually silent.

[devilgrrl]

17. All cars should be loud and obnoxious like Harley-Davidson motorcycles

That'll solve everything!!!

:sarcasm:

[EnviroBat]

22. Harley Davidson motorcycles are loud so

morons in SUV's, talking on cell phones, jamming to iPods, and generally acting like they own the fucking road, will hear us. Hopefully they will pull their heads out of their asses and not run US over.

Fucking cage drivers.

[Tesha]

25. ...Three miles away.

> Harley Davidson motorcycles are loud so morons in SUV's,
> talking on cell phones, jamming to iPods, and generally
> acting like they own the fucking road, will hear us. ...

...three miles away.

Tesha

[EnviroBat]

26. If that's what it takes...

[melm00se]

33. that's the "loud pipes save lives"

argument.

sound is directional and tail pipes point backwards, so the sound is directed rearward.

try this sometime: pick up a biker in your rear view mirror and watch/listen to them approach (or do the same thing when you pass one) and then note where you actually can hear them (or lose "sight" of their sound signature). you'll find that it is when the rider is even with you.

while I agree that inattentive cagers are a menace, being loud and obnoxious only fuels the fire to push for more and more regulation.

You can already start to see this now: California has fined motorcycle and motorcycle accessory manufacturers for having/selling non-EPA compliant pipes, the motor company has stopped making louder harley brand pipes and is actively discouraging their dealers from installing aftermarket pipes, a couple of towns in the west have essentially outlawed motorcycles from passing thru their town.

The writing is on the wall....

[EnviroBat]

34. I can tell you from the experience of many years of riding,

that every one of my "close calls" occurred when I was riding next to a car, on a usually "quiet" motorcycle. That's is when a rider is most at risk. In front or behind we rely on our lights to alert the world to our presence. While I will agree that drag pipes are ridiculous and un-necessary, a set of slightly louder than stock Screamin Eagles has gotten the attention of drivers when my bike is next to them. It is much safer to be seen and heard. We can make enough noise to keep us out of trouble without taking it to an obnoxious level. Oh, it helps to scare deer away from the side of the road as well.

[Tesha]

48. Strangely enough, motorcycles in other parts of the world aren't so loud.

Yet their drivers manage to ride about as safely as
American Harley riders.

Face it, the whole "loud pipes" thing is a combination
of two factors:

1. The "LOOK AT ME!!!!" factor, and

2. The desire to not have to spend the effort it takes
to ride defensively.

Tesha

[EnviroBat]

49. If your going to make such inane claims as to the safety of

motorcycling in other countries, please back it up with some statistics. "Gee, I'll just make something up out of thin air!"

Nice try though...

[Gormy Cuss]

46. Yet CA encourages lane splitting.....

perhaps they're trying to increase motorcycle accidents in this state.

[tavalon]

18. Funny you should mention that

When I was in my boyfriend's Prius, he was saying that one hazard when he's in a parking lot is that pedestrians don't see him because they don't hear him.

[Orsino]

19. That's why the car beeps *inside* when in reverse.

It's to remind the driver that no one will hear you coming.

[LWolf]

20. I think quiet hybrids can be one part of an effort

to reduce noise pollution.

I have a hard time imagining any road that would be so quiet that NOTHING could be heard when there is traffic.

How about some other assists? Bells that chime a signal change; or motion detectors at intersections that do the same.

[Norrin Radd]

21. I don't drive. Never have, never been able to afford a car.

So I've always walked everywhere. On a couple of recent occasions I've stepped out into a crosswalk and had the crap scared out of me by a hybrid zipping by (the bigger problem is drivers never stopping for pedestrians, but I welcome a solution akin to the card on the bicycle tire jokingly mentioned above).

[Touchdown]

23. I know something that should be silent!

[Johonny]

27. Until the study comes out

I guess I have no idea how big a problem there is...

[ProfessorGAC]

28. Yeah. I'd Like To See Much More Information

I know that one can hear an electric golf cart running on grass from at least 40 yards away. A larger vehicle, with treaded tires on pavement would seem to be audible from farther.

Would like to know much more before i take a position as to the true safety implications.
The Professor

[Stinky The Clown]

44. The visually imparied reported it as a problem.

I suppose they could be guilty of histrionics ...... but I suspect its an actual problem.

A golf cart in a quiet environment is likely to be different from a slow moving (but still hazardous) car in an urban environment.

I too would like more info, but I suspect that, for some, the problem is, indeed, real.

[FredStembottom]

29. Give this one over to the japanese..........

They'll not only make the cars noticable by ear - but they'll do it in some totally surprising and appealing way that people will clamour to have their cars emit!

"Problem" becomes next-big-fad.

[MaryCeleste]

32. We need to require that any quiet vehicle slower than 25 mph play bagpipe music on external speakers

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. When I see a blind person I tend to lower my window

and tell them I am there

Yep, I drive a hybrid

[slackmaster]

47. We have a Kamikazee blind guy in my neighborhood

The guy jaywalks at a spot where people often drive WAY too fast because they are cresting a hill. If you aren't going 25 MPH or under, there is no way you could stop for a pedestrian because they come into view with no warning.

[Javaman]

38. I remember when I was a kid. I had this little sound gizmo on my bicycle

that made it sound like a chopper.

Perhaps something like that to simulate a muscle car...

;)

[Runcible Spoon]

39. drivers just need to learn to be more attentive and careful

where i live in Buenos Aires, there aren't many lines telling you which side of the street your car should stay on and people are very aggressive and speedy. However, it's common protocol to lightly tap the horn approaching an intersection to alert pedestrians and bikers.

Now, if we could just implement something like that on US streets (without the speeding and shady infrastructure...i'm certainly not arguing that BA is any safer!) perhaps not as loud as a traditional car horn, there would be no issue.

[alarimer]

45. They should give them a louspeaker that plays the theme from "The Sting"

like all those ice cream carts.